Unbolt your bullbars - the pedestrians are coming

Submitted: Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 19:04
ThreadID: 104790 Views:3499 Replies:17 FollowUps:34
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Well it seems the pedestrian council of Australia has a problem with our bullbars.

http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancouncil/Page.asp?PageID=130

Never mind the 18 yo lunatics we are letting drive supercharged V8's around the suburbs!
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Reply By: Batt's - Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 19:31

Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 19:31
That's arguments been going on since Noah was a baby. I imagine if they banned them they would have to offer a buy back scheme to be fair because they authorities have let us have them for so long which would be very expensive buying back your bullbar, spotties, winches ,rod holders, uhf's. And when the insurance claims increase because of the extra damage from animals etc the price of insurance will go up which is just what we need it will follow the trend of price increases as being part of the cost of living. One of the anti bullbar/anti 4WD wankers who use to stir trouble up a lot actually was driving a subaru outback go figure.
AnswerID: 519994

Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 19:55

Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 19:55
Hey Batt,

Yes I guess having only had a vehicle with a bullbar for the last 1.5 years I've been relatively sheltered from the argument! You make a very good point with regards to the insurance.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: landseka - Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 19:59

Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 19:59
The Pedestrian Council is the same wanker you speak of. It is a Council of one person only and visitors not welcome. It is just one hater that bashes the ear of the media & they lap up all his drivel.
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Reply By: Member - blackbird1937 - Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 20:18

Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 20:18
Hi. Having had bars on vehicles since 78 and needing them in the areas that I drove. I needed a bar for years before that but could not get one made for a typical car. It is a shame that we are being told what we need and how to drive by educated idiots that have never been out driving in the bush when the nocturnal animals come out. It reminds me of the time at Ouyen Vic when there were many accidents with roos. Someone from a insurance company came to Ouyen and asked where the road was that many were having accidents on. Sometime later he came back with smashed up vehicle and did not say a word. Great result.
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Reply By: K&FT - Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 20:22

Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 20:22
Well here we go again.

does not seem that long ago we were fighting to keep them.

the flaming pedestrian councillor should concentrate on keeping the pedestrians on the bloody footpath and let us worry about what goes on out on the road.

sorry end of rant.

frank
AnswerID: 519999

Reply By: Top End Az - Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 20:34

Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 20:34
Also the same council that is also worried about unrestricted speed limits in the middle of the outback north of Alice Springs where there are a distinct lack of pedestrians.
AnswerID: 520000

Follow Up By: Skulldug - Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 21:19

Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 21:19
Couldn't agree more,

Don't worry about pedestrians. Go to the real problem. Truck limit should be 90 kph, log book enforcement, drug testing, prosecution for tailgating on video evidence and time behind bars for lack of maintainence. Get the cowboys off the roads and I can drive with my caravan at 95kph without being bumf &kd.

Skull
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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 01:08

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 01:08
If you're going to do that to truckies, how about the scalies start weighing 4WD's and caravans and start imposing the same fines levied on trucking.

And get all the old F..ts in caravans off the road. Saw one on the Bruce today on the bad stretch between Gin Gin and MV. At least 20 cars and four trucks behind it puttering along at 70k's in a 100 zone.
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Follow Up By: Member - blackbird1937 - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 06:02

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 06:02
Skulldug, I know there are a few cowboys driving trucks but being a van tourist now also an ex truckie , plant operator , I see many caravan towers who should have to do a license test before they go out on the roads. I have seen vans that could do with some maintenance also. If I was driving a 16 feet semi-trailer, I have to have an articulated license yet people can tow a 24 ft van with an ordinary license. We all know that without trucks there would be no food in the cities. Lyn, I am also one of those old F,,ts towing a van but if possible I pull over so never have traffic held up. I also drive at a speed that is fast enough for the conditions. Apparently in NT they are putting the vans over the scales.
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Follow Up By: Skulldug - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 08:24

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 08:24
Blackbird,

And on the same stretch of road last time I was on it, I saw a low loader with some big piece of industrial equipment taking up the on-coming lane as well as his. He was legal, flashing lights, two escort vehicles and driving to the conditions, the limitations of his vehicle, and his own level of confidence. If he was a professional driver, he would also be on the lookout for idiots without the patients to wait until it's safe to pass.

That's the way it should be. Unfortunately it's not. Comments like, "I have right of way because I'm the biggest" are common. How these people handle slower drivers is - sit a foot behind even if there is no up-coming opportunity to pass. Flash lights just to settle their nerves. Pull out to pass as long as the oncoming vehicle is not a truck, knowing that they have to make room.

On the weight and license issues, I don't have a problem with what you are saying. Perhaps even have days where caravans are checked instead of trucks. That might make people check their compliance plates and make an effort to find out what they can carry.

Skull



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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 23:02

Saturday, Oct 19, 2013 at 23:02
Scruby has no data - he's just a media magnet. He quoted someone's opinion from 1991.
If he wants to make the world safer for pedestrians he needs to find a way of stopping drunk pedestrians and old folk wandering in front of cars.
AnswerID: 520008

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 07:42

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 07:42
And people talking on phones , loud music and earphones and communicating on Facebook whilst crossing the road! Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

There's time to rest when you're dead,
Get out and do something instead!

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Reply By: John and Regina M - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 00:29

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 00:29
And while we're on the subject of trucks......
Over 60 and you can't tow...ok, maybe a garden trailer.

The number of mobility/hearing/visually/etc impaired 'senior citizens' behind the wheel of rigs far more dangerous than an interstate truck is criminal.
AnswerID: 520011

Follow Up By: Member - John - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 06:19

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 06:19
John, Very harsh, what would all the grey nomads do?

Mandatory licences yes, complete ban, no.

To tow anything, even a garden trailer, a licence endorsement should be required, for all.
John and Jan

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Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 10:13

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 10:13
Oh, John.
You are obviously not near 60. Let me hear your opinion when you get close and are facing being banned from touring with your van.

bill
Bill B

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Follow Up By: John and Regina M - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:40

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:40
bbuzz
Quite near 60 thank you. However my point remains.
You should have to earn your stripes to pull anything larger than a garden trailer. I work with grey nomads pulling large rigs all the time.

Many should not. Accidents waiting to happen. Some of them aren't able to change a tyre due to their physical limitations. Anyone who thinks everyone gets better as you age is a little crazy in the head.
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Follow Up By: kev.h - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:59

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:59
Hi John
To answer your question " what would all the grey nomads do?"
They would sit at home coming up with trash like old Scruby I think he is sour because he secretly wants to drive a big 4wd in the bush with a bull bar and can't so he bleep off with anyone that does
Kev
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Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 07:28

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 07:28
Since when was the road for pedestrians. It seems to be the other way these days. If the, the pedestrians, obeyed traffic lights and "looked left, the looked right" all would be fine.

Earlier this year we wiped out the left hand side of our car on a rockwall. Just bad luck. If it wasn't for the bull bar deflecting the front away from the rocks, then we would have been stuck. Just cut a bit plastic off the car, bent the door edge and drove home. The bullbar saved us.

Phil
AnswerID: 520021

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 07:31

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 07:31
Yawn!!! Michael
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Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

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Get out and do something instead!

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AnswerID: 520022

Reply By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 09:09

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 09:09
Hi Cruiser

I choose not to have a bullbar on logical grounds that pertain to what I do with my car.
I would hope that everyone considers all the relevant info and make there own
descision as there are plenty of senarios that support barwork.

The PCA show some bad examples and I suspect many of us would agree with just those examples but we know that its the thin edge of the wedge.

Sort of like speed limits or 0.8 drink drinking limits , despite ever decreasing
reasons and selective use of stats there seems to be a force constantly trying to drive
our society to a lower common denominator.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Cruiser . - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 09:20

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 09:20
Robin,

Why are you replying to me, I didnt make any comments on this until now.

And by the way, I don't have a bull-bar either

Regards,

Cruiser
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Follow Up By: Member - Ups and Downs - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 09:32

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 09:32
Cruiser,

If you look at the initial post it is from Member - Cruiser74, and in replying Robin abbreviated it to 'Cruiser'.

Paul
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 09:41

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 09:41
Robin,
Sort of like speed limits or 0.8 drink drinking limits, Isn't it 0.05 drinking limit.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 09:56

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 09:56
Yes Andy that was my point about constant push downwards from the 0.8 is was when it came out.

Paul has it Cruiser74 we try to be as polite as possible and try to reply to a persons name , and I understand why lots don't use a name and cruiser sounded nicer and more personnal than Cruiser74.

Ha Ha , I noticed I just called Andy Adventures "Andy" without thinking.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Cruiser . - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 12:06

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 12:06
"I understand why lots don't use a name and cruiser sounded nicer and more personnal than Cruiser74."

No problem Rob, that sounds more personal than Robin
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Reply By: allein m - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:36

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 11:36
the team from All 4 adventure the other day in a remote part of the NT hit a cow full on and the although the roo bar and head light on the right hand side were damaged they were able to continue on after making sure the animal was dead and not suffering ,
if they did not have a roo bar it would have been a very expensive extraction back to get repaired.



AnswerID: 520042

Reply By: Echucan Bob - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 12:03

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 12:03
Cruiser, I think part of the problem is due to confusion in the minds of people like Harold Scruby (screwball?). We keep talking about bull bars, roo bars, nudge bars, etc If we all stuck to the correct terminology and referred to them as CROWD CONTROL BARS then a lot of the negativity would just evaporate.
Bob
AnswerID: 520044

Reply By: allein m - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 13:11

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 13:11
I wonder what the pedestrian council think of this it was on a 4x4 parked in the main street of Broken hill

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Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 13:45

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 13:45
Now that's just asking for trouble! :)
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Follow Up By: Skulldug - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 16:49

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 16:49
Yep, he'll get coined.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 08:32

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 08:32
My simple question is are we happy as four-wheel drive enthusiast’s that this person is expressing a personal view, as distasteful as it is, that is likely to be taken as representative of the broader group of four-wheel drivers?

If not, tell the person this as it does not help our cause one bit...
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Follow Up By: allein m - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:44

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:44
Landy hi and how are you

I think that this person is sick of the constant rumors regarding roo bars as such and has decided in there own way to express his opinion I am sure a lot of people would think of doing this but few would .

there is lot of people out there that think roo bars are designed to so you can put spot lights on and aerials because they do not get out there and see what life is like in the bush

I lived in WA for a long time and travelled a lot mostly in the south west and saw a few roos and such

what a shock moving out to Broken Hill we have emus roo sheep cattle all wandering out on the roads

we have a steel bar made for our car so far we have hit 2 foxes and 1 roo I have lost count of the close calls but it has opened my eyes to a entirely new world



we are not in Russia we are allowed to have a opinion
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 14:49

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 14:49
Far too much common sense there Landy. His sign is up there with the "I shoot/fish/4WD/take-your-pick and I vote" stickers for inanity and does nothing for the image of the broader 4WDing community. The (siege) mentality of someone who'd go to the trouble to put that sort of message on their vehicle suggests he'd be unlikely to take kindly to any adverse comment though.
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 20:24

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 20:24
Yep, It's about as inane as "Don't blame me, I voted Green" stickers or those silly little transfers showing the status of your family that are unfortunately becoming more common on vehicles around cities.

Apart from that he's allowed to express his opinion just as Howard Scruby is, whether you agree with it or not is irrevelant.

Disco.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 20:54

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 20:54
I think we are very much on the same page Disco Driver, I expressed further down the right of people to express an opinion, whether we agree with that opinion is another thing altogether...and healthy debate is always a good thing!

And the person displaying this sticker is entitled to think that it advances the four-wheel drive cause, if that was the intention, whether it does is a matter of perspective and opinion.

If it is just about a good laugh, great, I'm all for a good laugh, heaven forbid, I did own three Landrovers, so believe me, I've got a great sense of humour, unfortunately, stickers like this ensure the joke is on all us four-wheel drivers...

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Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 13:32

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 13:32
Ho..Hum...not again. I can only say thank heaven for the nudge bar on the old Jack today. Took a roo on the right side & deflected him around the fender...only taking out
the headlight & bending the bumper. In the outback...not quite..north of Marulan on the Hume...double lane dual concrete.....such is life......oldbaz.
AnswerID: 520051

Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 13:51

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 13:51
Sorry Oldbaz, I am relatively new here so don't intend to rehash old issues. Next time I'll remember to do a thread search to make sure I'm not digging up old dirt! :)

Cheers

Craig
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 17:04

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 17:04
Hay Craig All there??

I think that olbaz, the poor old fella, got out of the village again. Those nurses have a hell of a time with him.

Anyway back to what I was so rudely interrupted, I think he is talking about the peddycouncirl girls not the thread.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 17:09

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 17:09
Darn it. I wanted to say:

Hi Craig. All good over there??

I want an editor. Come on everyone. All together now. 1..2..3 "I want an editor".."What do we want?".."I want an editor". Does anyone think I would go okay at the head of a protest march.

I gather I am in an excellent mood today. No chemo for three weeks and all gong well. And if you think that I am OT. Yep! Hi Michelle.

Phil
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Reply By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 18:34

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 18:34
yet another useless parasdite on the public payroll - surplus to requirements so they have to kick up some cr@p to justify their existance and position.
AnswerID: 520066

Reply By: Member -Hilton Hillbillies - Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 20:33

Sunday, Oct 20, 2013 at 20:33
Isn't it wonderful that we have people like Harold Scruby looking after us (not).
This idiot has wanted to ban tow bars, bull bars and probably public bars.
When he is lost for things to get his mug on the tele, he trots out this crap.
What really p's me is that our hard earn't tax dollars are going to fund these wankers.
Landseka is spot on about visitors not welcome.
The words below are taken directly from the Pedestrian Council web site unedited.

Membership of the Pedestrian Council of Australia Limited is by invitation of the Board of Directors to individuals and institutions having interests or concerns of like nature to those of the PCA.
http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancouncil/page.asp?PageID=105

Maybe we should have our own organisation that will look after our interests.
Steve

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AnswerID: 520071

Reply By: The Landy - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 08:23

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 08:23
Reading this I can’t help but feel that sometimes four-wheel drive enthusiasts are their own worst enemies.

I don’t know Harold Scrubby, I don’t agree with the views he holds, and I am happy to debate them anytime, but one thing is for sure, I respect his right to hold an opinion and to express that.

Isn’t that what we would all want?

It is unfortunate that this thread which appears in a forum largely visited by four-wheel drive enthusiast’s, attacks the person, some in an unsavoury way, rather than providing constructive argument about why it is reasonable to have a bull-bar (and four wheel drive vehicle). It simply becomes fodder for the anti-four wheel drive lobby to grab hold of, and highlights to the media that maybe we are just a bunch of “red-necks” who have little regard for anyone else.

And bear in mind, the Pedestrian Council of Australia is only one organisation that has a “beef” with four-wheel drive vehicles and their owners.

Instead of perpetuating personal attacks against this man in this thread, spend the time instead to write to your local member of parliament and tell them why it is fair and reasonable to own a four-wheel drive vehicle fitted with a bull-bar, you’re entitled to do that and would be time much better spent...

And for those that are at the keyboard about to “have a go at me” I will reiterate for your benefit, I don’t know Harold Scrubby, I don’t agree with the views he holds, and I am happy to debate them anytime, but one thing is for sure, I respect his right to hold an opinion and to express that.
AnswerID: 520088

Follow Up By: Member - Matt M - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 13:29

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 13:29
Couldn't agree more Landy.

Like you, I don't necessarily support all of the PCA's views, but it is interesting that if anyone could be bothered going to their web page, the anti 4WD/bullbar bit is not at the top of their mind. In fact the main campaign on their agenda seems to be a fairly graphic awareness campaign "in response to the veritable epidemic of pedestrians using electronic mobile devices when crossing the road." Something mentioned

Other issues seem to be campaigns on waiting for a green light to cross, not letting mates walk home drunk and the dangers of driving on drugs. Not too much there you could take issue with. Some comments in this thread that the PCA should keep pedestrians on the footpath, stop drunks, teach people to look left and right, stop oldies wandering into traffic, etc. Well guess what? That seems to be exactly what they are trying to do.

Cheers,

Matt.
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt (Perth-WA) - Friday, Oct 25, 2013 at 19:37

Friday, Oct 25, 2013 at 19:37
I think you will find that most members that have been here for sometime have had plenty to do with Scruby and his views.

While he is entitled to his opinion, I feel that his opinion is overly represented. The man tried to make himself the local authority as to anything in his local inner sydney area that he "felt" was unjust and when he didnt get the attention he desired..... He established the Pedestrian Council of Aust and appointed himself the CEO.

That enabled him a title that media outlets found authorative and served to give him a pedastal to stand on.

Despite all his efforts and his ramblings he has had little to no impact on the 4WD community (just one of his stated targets) and apart from post like this rehashing his fame...he is basically ineffective.

Although I have been surprised lately that Sunrise Morning Show has had him on voicing his opinion on a few matters. Not that that says much for Sunrise!!

Matt
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Oct 25, 2013 at 23:23

Friday, Oct 25, 2013 at 23:23
Matt (Perth WA)

Here is the thing though Matt, a one-man band getting the airplay he does, where are the four-wheel drive associations, and clubs, with the memberships they represent they should be on Sunrise highlighting the difference of opinion.

If one man can do it, why can’t we? It begs the question…
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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 09:01

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 09:01
Biggest problem is that we are our own worst enemy , No I am not advocating banning bull bars , but if your vehicle is a 99% city soccer mum tractor wannabe that has never and will in all probability never even see a dirt road don't pretend you need a bull bar .
AnswerID: 520089

Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:59

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:59
Agree with you there. My truck stays in the garage all ready for our next trip or dirty from the last! We bought a fairly cheap Kia Rio to get around town in. Only time I will drive mine outside of a trip away is to take it for repairs or to the high pressure wash down bay. We do go away very often though and we live in the city so we have to drive through it to "get out" but I am very aware of pedestrians. Interestingly, I have just finished a safety course where the instructor said that he conducted a study at the site of one of the intersections in Perth that has had the most vehicle/pedestrian accidents. He went there 3 days in a row and watched the behaviour of Pedestrians and said that of all the people he watched 85% did not look for a vehicle coming either way before crossing. They relied solely on the "green man" telling them it was safe to cross. I thought that was really interesting and says alot about human behaviour.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: disco driver - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:19

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:19
Don't pretend that you need a BMW, Rolls or AMG Merc, let's all drive around in glorious Toyota Prius' or Merc Smart cars.

What happened to freedom of choice, it's bad enough living in a Nanny State/Commonwealth Govt with all the unnecessary restrictions they create.

Pedestrians are their own worst enemies wandering around with nose in smartphone and ears blocked by earphones playing music so loud that others can hear.
Is it any wonder that they walk into poles and bullbars, they are totally lost in their own little self important worlds.

Jeez, I feel better after this little rant.

Disco.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 17:16

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 17:16
Have you ever watched a set of pedestrian lights and played "Guess which one will stop" when the Don't Walk is illuminated. Well don't bet on a copper stopping. What hope have we.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Graeme - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 17:33

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 17:33
I am quite deaf and require powerful hearing aids and they are not fun to wear. Often as young people walk past with their buds in their ears even I can hear what they are listening to, but they are sure wrecking their ears.
If anyone wants a safe sure career an audiologist is the career of the future!!
I do not know how these people have any sense or awareness of their surroundings, yet any stupidity such as stepping out into the traffic is every-one's fault but their own. They are going to come off second best even with a Nissan Micra, let alone with the bull bar on my Landrover. (Yes I do live in the country where there are suicidal skippys)
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 19:43

Monday, Oct 21, 2013 at 19:43
Agree with the first post here - we DO NOT need a bull-bar in the city at all!. IF the "Mum's Taxi" is all it's used for, then a bull-bar is waaay OTT.
But ... for the full time country drive, with over 120K on the odo, I have a "nudge" bar which, thankfully has not been required as yet. But, I certainly would never buy a tow vehicle without at least a nudge (and probably a full bull- or roo-bar). To explain a bit, this vehicle was bought before the van became an item of desire!
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