What happened to good old manners

Robin - That is a good balance response, I would agree as I visit many Forums. I have found a few do work on this issue, some do not and we can choose to stay away.

The fun stuff is always good. I like to consider we are all different and all should have respect.

I just thought may be it is time to reverse the trend and lets start being nice, that way this site can be enjoyed for what it is, a great source of information :-)

But if it moves towards the former, it will push people away!

Regards Tony

The good forum manners have probably gone the same way as the virtually non existent manners and consideration for others on the roads.
No manners taught at home or school, they watch Dad/Mum drive like a loony, they hear the way they speak to staff in shops etc., so we can't expect them to do any different when they get older.
And don't dare to voice an opinion which differs from many of those that are constantly on this site as they obviously know what's best for us all.
Thankfully there are always a few reasonable people around to restore ones faith in humanity.
AlanH.

Chris - "opinion" rather than "fact" is what this is all about, unless you post a fact! :-)

May we all consider how we reply! It is easy in a faceless medium to be a bit blunt :-)

Regards Tony

Chris, You can always report anything you think is wrong to the moderators as they can't read every comment.

Hi Dave...yep agree about that...suppose the issue is what someone believes to be offensive may not be the same as what other people believe. Sometimes it's not the actual content, more the tone of the reply - almost a "put down". Still as others have said, it's a good place to get information from people who have "done it"...whatever "it" is!

Herbal - You asked "So if a person makes a comment that you have a different view to, it is OK to post proof that they are wrong ? That would be seen by most people as an aggressive reply and may even start a 'flame war' as it is known in the forum world".

There is no issue with posting a view - Here are some quotes from this Forum as how not to do it!

"Well that's the dumbest thing I've read on this post so far".

"What a load of rubbish"

etc etc

We can be better than those comments, can we not?

Cheers Tony

Quote - There is no issue with posting a view - Here are some quotes from this Forum as how not to do it! - end quote.

I do not know about the exerts you have given as they are taken out of context.

With respect, correct me if I am wrong...You are saying it is OK to post a differing view, so long as that differing view complies with how you want that differing view to be posted...Is that correct?

Herbal - You asked " so long as that differing view complies with how you want that differing view to be posted"

That is not what I am saying, I am saying leave the personal insults, put downs and insinuations out of the reply.

No one here knows each person and who they are, so why post insults, character put downs and other insinuating comments on?

But as some has said what is insulting for some may not be insulting for others?

You suggested "out of context" Consider this point of view;

I would give a person a fair go and consider that a forum Poster does not purposely try to post a dumb reply, so why be accused of it?

I would give a person a fair go and consider that a forum Poster does not purposely Post Rubbish, so why be accused of it?

Of course that is just two examples! There was some time back when the Forum reached some level of insults and a few left, it would be sad to see it again happen! Of course yours truly also has to apply this reasoning :-)

Regards Tony

I reckon that when we read something its different to when we hear something, if I hear someone say "that's the dumbest thing I ever heard!" I think .... there are many more communication means happening than just the words. Its the same here. I agree its nice to be nice, but if I can find supporting information to back my argument, that's contrary to your point, then I dont see why I should not put it into the discussion.

Its only aggressive if we feel it is aggressive and I would hardly think that the majority of posters would be blatantly aggressive.

Herbal, I think I know that moderator that went close to the line, very well, its a tough call sometimes.

All the best

Bonz

To right Leigh.
During the last big bush fire event here in sydney a certain member posted on here he saw spots or objects on the surface of the sun whilst looking at it through the smoke moving across the surface from left and reapearing on the right hand side of the suns surface. So i posted a link to a site that had heaps of relivent info on the sun and it surface and sunspot activity. The person mentioned spots so i thought he may have seen sun spots.
Well didnt the member let loose on me.

Those same "old boys" seem exempt from the off topic rule!

Spot on Leigh,

I sense some on this site feel they have moral authority to set people straight if they disagree with them.

A while back I offered an honest opinion on what I considered to be a boring stretch of road in NT. At the time I suggested to the writer to make plans to leave early & drive all day as we did years ago.

Well the next thing you know I'm being accused of speeding, reckless driving & being oblivious to the places of interes along the way.

Irrespective of whether you offer "fact" or "opinion", unless what you've written is bordering on ridiculous all views should be respected.

Yep...Nail - Head - Hit.

However there is an extension to this... We are now involved in internet talking...this forum, like any other is a part of that !

I would bet my left testicle (if my ex-wife didn't take it along with the tea cups ) that there are many people reading this forum, that can only read forums for their "social life"....

It is not easy to read what a person means...Many people have problems writing. So we have to add the 80% and take a best guess.

(just checked... the left one is still there...whew...oh no, the right one..) :)

Frank P, you are spot on - the non verbal is missing and that is significant.

In my experience, it is doesn't take much time to preface one's reply with, if appropriate, something like -
In my experience ......
What I have observed is ......
My understanding is that ......

This makes it pretty clear you are leaving room for others to have differing opinions or access to facts that may lead to a different conclusion.

Cheers
Andrew

Allan - I would agree, I stay clear of TV a lot now, it is not so easy to find a show that is not in some way aimed at attacking the personality of some one!

It would be good if we could change this direction! I vote with my remote :-)

Yes address the comment in a professional manner!

Regards Tony

Craig - Could not agree more :-)))

Regards Tony

Craig, I used to frequent another "blokes" forum - until I put up a post about allowing shooters into national parks - and expressing my opinion about the number of dropkick firearms-owners, who spent a good portion of their time, shooting up road signs - and this was the answer from one of the forum "gun nuts" ...

["I have read some utter utter b******* on this forum over the years, but hands down, that would have to be the biggest load of f******* s*** I have ever read.............anywhere"]

As a result, I promptly left that forum for good - because I visit forums to swap yarns, and indulge in intelligent discussions with intelligent people.
I have no need or desire to be personally abused in that manner, and if someone can't reply to a post without abusing the poster, then I see little value in having discussions with them.

Cheers, Ron.

Ron - You are correct :-)))))

But consider this point though! Did I, or did I just offer an understanding I had from a conversation I had with someone that may have some inside information?

I said I personally I do not like the V8, Rego is a killer for a start. That was my opinion on it all :-)))

But I am still alive, so it could not be all that bad :-))

Regards Tony

Gday Pop
There are some who corelate the information of a post and put that information back in as their own.

"There are some who appear to relish the contest rather than provide useful info."

Well said!

Cheers

John

J & V, I very much agree with you & unfortunately some of these have very little real knowledge on the subject, particularly mechanical issue's.
Cheers

Sorry that should be Tonyfish.

Agree with you there Phil. A simple click on theThanks tab is all that is needed. But how often do you se stacks of replies with zero follow-ups.

Cheers

Dunc

I thanked you boys ;-)

Baz - Only used it twice :-( total of 8hrs!

A few teething issues which are now sorted out, so this weekend is a go. It rides the seas as good as expected, no more Alloy Thumps for the older bones :-) Wife loves that!

Thanks for you reply

Regards Tony

Do you mean this -

"Take your hand off it mate, what a lot of crap."

Which was replied to with -

From Department of Primary Industries, Government website - quote

Carp have been introduced into Australia both deliberately, in an attempt to imitate the European environment, and accidentally, through the escape of ornamental or aquaculture fish.

In Victoria, the stocking of carp began as early as 1859, but early stocking attempts were not successful. In NSW, the earliest known introductions occurred near Sydney in 1865. In the early 1900s, fingerlings were used to establish several wild populations of carp around Sydney, including in Prospect Reservoir (where they still persist).

end quote.

Just asking.

yes it is the one

Thank you.

I will take your above post as an apology... and I accept it.

So all is good :)

It seems a lot of people if they haven;t seen it them self refuse to believe and jump straight to ridicule. I remember some years ago a bloke practically abused me and started to get nasty because he just couldn't accept that my spark plugs lasted over 100,000km,,,,,, now its a service interval to change them that often,,, new technology creeps in.

This was posted about our farming operation a few days ago........

"87k for this and 104k for that? OK...So what was your profit. Or if you are embarrassed to state your profit, what was your takings?

No one in their right mind would spend $104,000 on water for a crop not worth at least millions!!!"

Manners Herbal?

It is true most of us have been guilty on a few occasions, but we can better this and make the effort hence forth to be nice to all our Forum contributors, no matter their opinion :-)

Regards Tony

BKS, no reluctantly I did mention the errors of that persons ways in a post. It was not something I normally do and I agonised over it for quite a while but in the end, the need to expose his fraudulent claims and behaviors overcame my reluctance.

I wasn't proud of the experience and it cost me credibility then as the sniping continued through member circles for quite a while. Strangely enough since he was exposed on that other site, that seems to have stopped. Fortunately (or unfortunately) he focused his concentration in other areas than EO after that.

I get no satisfaction in being proved correct believe me. I'm just disappointed that he got to take in so many gullible people on this site and others.

These days I do get disappointed when I see people deride others or tackle them over spelling and grammar rather than making a positive contribution. It seems so petty. Others put themselves out there as experts and then get stroppy when others have a differing opinion. Yep there are a few rude pricks who take great satisfaction in deliberately belittling others and stirring the pot but then we all know who they are so it's just as easy not to bite and stay out of it.


Cheers Mick

Wasn't that expert in aboriginal ways from up there at Mulan and many other things, a life member here? What a time that was Mick!

Saw him in July Fred when I was back in Mulan, big, alive and as white as ever. Still peddling the same old stories though. I hope some took away a lesson from it all. If it seems so incredible and amazing, then it probably isn't!

Here's a trip down memory lane for you.

Ahh yes. The memories.

BTW That book is on it's way. Someone else wanted a quick read before I posted it off.

Well...I feel I have to come clean after all that. I'm really a 70 year old spinster with 30 pet cats and no licence or car. I feel so much better now. :-)

Fair comment John...

For what it might be worth, I think the high readership has more to do with some home truths being exposed. Along with those that are making popcorn what for the next flame war to start :)

It is all about how things are read. The meaning intended by the writer is lost the very second the reader starts to read...

For example...scroll up...scroll right up to the very first post...the opening post of this thread...Now read the first sentence...

OK. Have you read it? Good... Now I am not saying this is what Tony intended... I am saying this is how it reads or can be read...

The Forum has gone to pot and people are being rude and not polite to each other because Tony has not been on the Forum for awhile. The first, opening sentence implies that Tony is holding this Forum together and when he goes away for a little time, it all falls apart.

Is that what Tony meant? I don't think so... But that is how it reads!

At the end of the day, no matter what the intension of the writer, the reader will determine the meaning.

John - Yes it very encouraging! It is great to see! Regards Tony

People come and go Fred. John and Val have posted in this thread, MickO and Kev are here all the time, Motherhen and DougNT still post.

Its not progress its just the way things change. The concept hasn't changed at all, its we who change. Go to a gathering and see which generation is mainly represented in the crowd, its not Gen X or Gen Y. I dont know what you mean by the current generation, but we have here a huge cross section of generations

There you go Bonz, good example of how others interpret differently, what is written. I never said those posters were gone from here. I'm actually in constant touch with a few of them. I did add "and numerous others long gone from here".

I never commented on which generation does or doesn't support gatherings. I gave my opinion as to where I think the underlying problem of the subject matter of this discussion, namely "Good old manners" stems from.

You have your opinion, and I have mine, and I am sure most everyone else who responded to this post has theirs.

Cheers.

Formerly FredG NSW.

Dead right mate, yep we read how we read which is rarely how we write.

It was the "numerous others long gone from here" that lead me down that path. Many have left for many reasons, some of which are folklore and few of which are facts.

Thats why to me lifetime membership is so easy, and if you come along to a gathering you might win one!

G’day there old cock, good to see you post. I’ve actually typed a reply at several locations and occasions in the thread without finalising it but I am motivated to reply to yours. You’re right, it is a great site and there is a lot of benefit to be gained. God I remember all the help I got when I first started asking questions in 2005. I got seriously flamed a few times as well for no good reason other than framing my questions to well...go figure! You know compared to now, the forum back then was like the old wild west. There was a damn sight more overt nastiness than there is now. It was interesting but by goodness it could get scarily out of control. Yep there are some opinionated individuals and attention seekers kicking around here now but compared to back then, they are mere minnows! That’s why D & M introduced forum rules and when they were constantly ignored, moderation policy. Yep it was interesting at times but by goodness there were some egos that couldn’t be restrained. We could wax lyrical over those who’ve come and gone, the occasional battles we’ve fought and all the rest but the site goes on, the contributions still get made, the help is forthcoming. The ironic thing is that “this generation” is still us. All those people you mentioned are still here or still lurking. Like you, they know and love the site and continue to lurk despite the various reasons for “leaving”. There are no ghosts here. The collective wisdom remains and the echoes of the past contributors are recorded in the archived threads for everyone to find should they wish.

Mate I hate to see a member leave because they are the backbone of the site. They are the ones who see the value of the site and what it has to offer as worth contributing too. You hit the nail on the head when you said you’ve made friends for life though EO. My adventures these days are with people I met here (except those pesky damn Canadians)(Oh and Outback Al. He’s like a bad smell that bloke always hanging around). It doesn’t happen as often as it used to but some of the newer contributors do carry on in the vein of the old and that’s what’s causing the problem lol. It’s circular. I must confess I didn’t like it much back then because of those antics. I appreciated the value to be gained though so became a member and have been so ever since. It was interesting but it had its issues and those issues largely prevented the inclusiveness we have in the forum now. Think carefully about it and you’ll remember what I’m talking about.

Fred, the way you choose to contribute to the forum is your choice, just keep on doing it.

Cheers, Mick

Seeing this post is about manners, I respectively submit to you Mick that it is spelt "echoes". I remain in your debt.

Yours elusively

Bonz

p.s. your woards are spoart on mate.

I know, know ....know.....know

Touche old mate... mate.... mate

LukeI couldn't agree more. There are a few regulars here that spoil the tone for everyone.

From the replies above, they don't seem to realise.

"From the replies above, they don't seem to realise."

Well put Skulldug. Thought I was alone with that impression. The irony in some of the replies is mind boggling.

Regards

You are quite right of course Mike.
Sometimes I find it hard to 'bite-ones-tongue' especially on matters of electrical safety for the benefit of others. But alas, once in a while it results in a shitstorm.

I ask myself a few questions before I post anywhere now...is that a hook in my mouth...am I chewing on some bait? Flame wars are quite entertaining if you aren't in them. I never really think highly of the participants though. I have however found quite a few people who resist the urge to bite under the most tempting circumstances and have thought the better of them for it. I'm trying to learn from them. Cheers.

G'day Allan
Read through this thread. Came to your post and this came to me. Mike more than hinted at it in reply 20. I wonder if it would make any difference to you if you realised how many people are able to sort the wheat from the chaff? I, for one, long ago realised that you ( personally) post on stuff you have informed view about and don't post otherwise.

When you know what you are talking about and you "bite back" (and "you" = people generally) it runs some risk of redundancy. Most people, I suspect, see it as a bite back. OTOH I don't believe rudeness should go unchallenged. It's a fine line but FWIW I think your judgment is pretty sound.

Some people very rarely cross the line, some do occasionally and some just want to see how over the line they can get. The last thrive on conflict. Ignored they will usually seek O2 elsewhere. Eventually the group will turn on them. Occasional transgressors can be reasoned with.

Oh and btw the glowie timer unit in my 2002 HZj78R was stuck up under the dash and it cost a fortune to have bugger dug out and replaced. Time over. I wouldn't bother. :)

Cheers
Mark

Hey Al, I work in an Electricity DB, dealing specifically with electrical safety and regulatory reporting, and found myself drawn into inflamed discussions about whats safe and whats not. Its not the discussion or even the content per se that we need to avoid, but the bagging commentary, Words stated above like "it is my experoience that....." or "I have always found that...." go a long way further than "Thats the dumbest thing I have heard all day....." to which my reply usually is ... wait till you get to know me if you think this is dumb!.....

By all means put your two bobs worth in.

Thanks guys for your considerate support.

This recent event started back in Thread 105085 where a certain person denigrated another regular. I responded in his support and got stung.

Then it arose again here but has thankfully been dealt with by the Moderator.

Maybe I should keep my "two bob" in my pocket Bonz?

Hi there Gnomey, hope the Oldgirl is going well, Troopy that is! LOL
I'm still using my manual glow plug button. It suits me fine. Cheers mate.