What happened to good old manners

Submitted: Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 17:04
ThreadID: 105179 Views:3892 Replies:21 FollowUps:60
This Thread has been Archived
I have noticed since I have not been around on this site much lately and only posted a couple of replies, that there appears to be a few people that would rather degrade a person than make a contributing comment to the thread!

There are quite a few replies that do not address the subject, but zoom right in on the character of a person making a response to a thread in an attempt to belittle the reply.

If one does not agree what is in the reply, it does not require an attack on the person. What could be done is the posting of proof to disprove the comment or give an alternate view!

What is wrong with us?

What happened to the Manners we used to be proud of?

Should this really need to be pointed out?

Regards Tony
Back Expand Un-Read 13 Moderator

Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 17:31

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 17:31
Hi Tony

I guess we could always do better but from my observation of a few sites I think Exploroz rates pretty well.

The instant that it does happen (beyond the obvious fun stuff) then it says to me that the poster simply has no valid argument and isn't to be taken seriously.
Robin Miller

Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 521674

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 17:37

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 17:37
Robin - That is a good balance response, I would agree as I visit many Forums. I have found a few do work on this issue, some do not and we can choose to stay away.

The fun stuff is always good. I like to consider we are all different and all should have respect.

I just thought may be it is time to reverse the trend and lets start being nice, that way this site can be enjoyed for what it is, a great source of information :-)

But if it moves towards the former, it will push people away!

Regards Tony
0
FollowupID: 802415

Follow Up By: AlanTH - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:16

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:16
The good forum manners have probably gone the same way as the virtually non existent manners and consideration for others on the roads.
No manners taught at home or school, they watch Dad/Mum drive like a loony, they hear the way they speak to staff in shops etc., so we can't expect them to do any different when they get older.
And don't dare to voice an opinion which differs from many of those that are constantly on this site as they obviously know what's best for us all.
Thankfully there are always a few reasonable people around to restore ones faith in humanity.
AlanH.
1
FollowupID: 802476

Reply By: Member - Chris_K - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 17:39

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 17:39
Hi Tony

I've noticed that as well...but thankfully it's in the minority. Perhaps it's the role of the moderators to take an active interest in replies of that sort. Then again - I'm not in favour of the "nanny state" option either! The forum is a great place for gathering information - but the best idea is to view it as "opinion" rather than "fact".

Cheers

Chris

AnswerID: 521675

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 17:45

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 17:45
Chris - "opinion" rather than "fact" is what this is all about, unless you post a fact! :-)

May we all consider how we reply! It is easy in a faceless medium to be a bit blunt :-)

Regards Tony
0
FollowupID: 802416

Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 23:48

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 23:48
Chris, You can always report anything you think is wrong to the moderators as they can't read every comment.
GU RULES!!

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 802451

Follow Up By: Member - Chris_K - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 13:20

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 13:20
Hi Dave...yep agree about that...suppose the issue is what someone believes to be offensive may not be the same as what other people believe. Sometimes it's not the actual content, more the tone of the reply - almost a "put down". Still as others have said, it's a good place to get information from people who have "done it"...whatever "it" is!
0
FollowupID: 802493

Reply By: Herbal - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 18:08

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 18:08
That is the internet, Tony ;)

Yes, this Forum is by far a lot better managed than most others...In fact I can only think of one minor time when I noticed a Mod go to the border line, but they did not cross it :)

With all respect, Tony. I agree with you, however I can show you just how easy it is to cause upset... quote - What could be done is the posting of proof to disprove the comment - end quote. So if a person makes a comment that you have a different view to, it is OK to post proof that they are wrong ? That would be seen by most people as an aggressive reply and may even start a 'flame war' as it is known in the forum world.

The rest of your sentence of which I have quoted from is - or give an alternate view!

Giving an alternative view, as you put it, is perfect if that view is given with respect and in a polite manner...But to come out with horns and hoofs offering proof that the poster is wrong...is just plain wrong in itself :)

See ?

This is the internet. It is not so much what is written, but more how it is read. ;)

AnswerID: 521678

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 18:51

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 18:51
Herbal - You asked "So if a person makes a comment that you have a different view to, it is OK to post proof that they are wrong ? That would be seen by most people as an aggressive reply and may even start a 'flame war' as it is known in the forum world".

There is no issue with posting a view - Here are some quotes from this Forum as how not to do it!

"Well that's the dumbest thing I've read on this post so far".

"What a load of rubbish"

etc etc

We can be better than those comments, can we not?

Cheers Tony


0
FollowupID: 802425

Follow Up By: Herbal - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 19:19

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 19:19
Quote - There is no issue with posting a view - Here are some quotes from this Forum as how not to do it! - end quote.

I do not know about the exerts you have given as they are taken out of context.

With respect, correct me if I am wrong...You are saying it is OK to post a differing view, so long as that differing view complies with how you want that differing view to be posted...Is that correct?

0
FollowupID: 802427

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 20:03

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 20:03
Herbal - You asked " so long as that differing view complies with how you want that differing view to be posted"

That is not what I am saying, I am saying leave the personal insults, put downs and insinuations out of the reply.

No one here knows each person and who they are, so why post insults, character put downs and other insinuating comments on?

But as some has said what is insulting for some may not be insulting for others?

You suggested "out of context" Consider this point of view;

I would give a person a fair go and consider that a forum Poster does not purposely try to post a dumb reply, so why be accused of it?

I would give a person a fair go and consider that a forum Poster does not purposely Post Rubbish, so why be accused of it?

Of course that is just two examples! There was some time back when the Forum reached some level of insults and a few left, it would be sad to see it again happen! Of course yours truly also has to apply this reasoning :-)

Regards Tony
2
FollowupID: 802434

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 17:32

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 17:32
I reckon that when we read something its different to when we hear something, if I hear someone say "that's the dumbest thing I ever heard!" I think .... there are many more communication means happening than just the words. Its the same here. I agree its nice to be nice, but if I can find supporting information to back my argument, that's contrary to your point, then I dont see why I should not put it into the discussion.

Its only aggressive if we feel it is aggressive and I would hardly think that the majority of posters would be blatantly aggressive.

Herbal, I think I know that moderator that went close to the line, very well, its a tough call sometimes.

All the best

Bonz
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 802590

Reply By: Member - LeighW - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 18:46

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 18:46
Hi Tony,

I agree with you too, seems some have taken ownership of this forum and if any others offer input they get shoot down in flames.

I remember a recent occurrence when one of the forum self appointed experts got stuck into someone for supposedly posting rubbish, when it was pointed out that what had been posted was indeed correct he got rather upset.

As you wrote this forum is for members seeking help and for therefore any member should be able to provide input, even if they aren't members of the old old boys club.

Cheers
Leigh

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 521683

Follow Up By: Michaeljp - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 19:46

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 19:46
To right Leigh.
During the last big bush fire event here in sydney a certain member posted on here he saw spots or objects on the surface of the sun whilst looking at it through the smoke moving across the surface from left and reapearing on the right hand side of the suns surface. So i posted a link to a site that had heaps of relivent info on the sun and it surface and sunspot activity. The person mentioned spots so i thought he may have seen sun spots.
Well didnt the member let loose on me.
0
FollowupID: 802430

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 08:35

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 08:35
Those same "old boys" seem exempt from the off topic rule!
0
FollowupID: 802465

Follow Up By: The Bunyip - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:35

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:35
Spot on Leigh,

I sense some on this site feel they have moral authority to set people straight if they disagree with them.

A while back I offered an honest opinion on what I considered to be a boring stretch of road in NT. At the time I suggested to the writer to make plans to leave early & drive all day as we did years ago.

Well the next thing you know I'm being accused of speeding, reckless driving & being oblivious to the places of interes along the way.

Irrespective of whether you offer "fact" or "opinion", unless what you've written is bordering on ridiculous all views should be respected.
1
FollowupID: 802687

Reply By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 18:56

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 18:56
Trouble is as humans we're not using the communications medium we are hard-wired to use - ie face-to-face.

In face-to-face communications the experts say 80% of the communincation is non-verbal. Facial expression, tone of voice, inflection, hand and body gestures and language.

And here we are, typing one to one in an exchange and that 80% is missing. It's so easy for the written word to be misinterpreted. Both writer and reader need to take care and make allowances.

FrankP

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

AnswerID: 521684

Follow Up By: Herbal - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 19:43

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 19:43
Yep...Nail - Head - Hit.

However there is an extension to this... We are now involved in internet talking...this forum, like any other is a part of that !

I would bet my left testicle (if my ex-wife didn't take it along with the tea cups ) that there are many people reading this forum, that can only read forums for their "social life"....

It is not easy to read what a person means...Many people have problems writing. So we have to add the 80% and take a best guess.

(just checked... the left one is still there...whew...oh no, the right one..) :)
2
FollowupID: 802429

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 19:59

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 19:59
Frank P, you are spot on - the non verbal is missing and that is significant.

In my experience, it is doesn't take much time to preface one's reply with, if appropriate, something like -
In my experience ......
What I have observed is ......
My understanding is that ......

This makes it pretty clear you are leaving room for others to have differing opinions or access to facts that may lead to a different conclusion.

Cheers
Andrew
3
FollowupID: 802433

Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 19:32

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 19:32
Tony, I do appreciate what you say. The whole of our society is becoming more aggressive. Just look at some of the "competitive" TV programs that belittle the participants.

Often on this Forum the messenger is attacked rather than the message.
Look at this extract from a recent thread:
"Only a rank amateur with no DC expertise would parallel 2 batteries that way. Connecting batteries correctly is preschool of DC electrics."
It was directed at someone other than me and although hardly necessary to refer it to a Moderator, I took it upon myself to chide the Poster and point out that the recipient was far from a "rank amateur".

Furthermore, I myself have experienced disrespectful responses that give me cause to defend my credibility and finish up in a slinging match. Some competent contributors have abandoned this forum because of this sort of thing. Our loss I'm afraid.

Fortunately, those who behave in the manner you refer to seem to only contribute for a short while before moving on.

Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 521685

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 20:08

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 20:08
Allan - I would agree, I stay clear of TV a lot now, it is not so easy to find a show that is not in some way aimed at attacking the personality of some one!

It would be good if we could change this direction! I vote with my remote :-)

Yes address the comment in a professional manner!

Regards Tony
3
FollowupID: 802435

Reply By: Member - Cruiser74 - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 20:03

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 20:03
Hi Tony,

I agree with what you're saying. Sometimes there are responses that are downright rude. I have even been on the receiving end of a couple but I accept that as a given in the world of the internet. If you were having a discussion with a group of people face to face then few would have the courage to say what they do without the anonymity a computer and keyboard offers them. Trolls.

Another thing to remember in the current age of communication is that a lot can be misinterpreted using modern forms of communication. Some people do not have the skills to express themselves adequately via text, email etc so what they may think is a harmless bit of fun can be taken the wrong way by the recipient. My girlfriend and I have even had a couple of stupid arguments because I left a smiley face off the end of a witty one liner! All funny to look back on but when you are dealing with strangers it pays to be tactful!

Cheers

Craig
AnswerID: 521686

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 20:10

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 20:10
Craig - Could not agree more :-)))

Regards Tony
1
FollowupID: 802437

Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 00:28

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 00:28
Craig, I used to frequent another "blokes" forum - until I put up a post about allowing shooters into national parks - and expressing my opinion about the number of dropkick firearms-owners, who spent a good portion of their time, shooting up road signs - and this was the answer from one of the forum "gun nuts" ...

["I have read some utter utter b******* on this forum over the years, but hands down, that would have to be the biggest load of f******* s*** I have ever read.............anywhere"]

As a result, I promptly left that forum for good - because I visit forums to swap yarns, and indulge in intelligent discussions with intelligent people.
I have no need or desire to be personally abused in that manner, and if someone can't reply to a post without abusing the poster, then I see little value in having discussions with them.

Cheers, Ron.
2
FollowupID: 802453

Reply By: Member - John and Val - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 21:24

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 21:24
Tony,

You raise important points. The tone of the forum has been declining for some time.

I’m reminded of the situation around a group campfire when the loudest males take over a discussion. Anyone not interested in verbal duelling doesn’t contribute. I content myself with recognising that the self appointed silver backs are telling us a lot about their need to hide their own inadequacies and weaknesses behind their loud voices!

Unfortunately the loud and aggressive ones can simply kill discussion. Women particularly are reluctant to cross swords with a belligerent loud-mouth, robbing the conversation of insights that often aren’t obvious to men.

I think we have seen a trend on this forum where less aggressive people simply keep their heads down and the forum suffers as their experiences and opinions are not contributed. (BTW We should also be more aware that the Friday Funnies are visible to a wide audience that won’t be enriched by sexist or bigoted material.) Let’s display a bit of respect for other people’s contributions. Let’s also remember that there are usually over 1000 people logged onto this site.

The core issue here appears to me to be that too many are too willing to tackle the contributor rather than the issue under discussion. Playing to trounce the opponent rather than win the game.

As already suggested by Andrew, I like “In my opinion…” or “In my experience…” . Also good are “often”, “usually”, “generally”, etc that leave room for a contrary opinion and don't invite an immediate challenge.

Let’s try to raise the tone a bit and treat other’s with the respect that is their due!

Cheers

John
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 521688

Reply By: Ron N - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 21:42

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 21:42
Aaaarrghhh!! - Tony! - but look what you did! You criticised Toyota Landcruiser V8's and their owners!

You got away relatively unscathed!

I'm amazed you weren't called a Prius-driving, tree-hugging Labor voter - who suffers from class envy! - and who couldn't afford the deposit on a Landcruiser V8 ashtray!! LOL

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 521689

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 16:38

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 16:38
Ron - You are correct :-)))))

But consider this point though! Did I, or did I just offer an understanding I had from a conversation I had with someone that may have some inside information?

I said I personally I do not like the V8, Rego is a killer for a start. That was my opinion on it all :-)))

But I am still alive, so it could not be all that bad :-))

Regards Tony
0
FollowupID: 802515

Reply By: mikehzz - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 22:05

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 22:05
I smell a bit too much to drink on some of the more obnoxious replies. It would be interesting to correlate rude replies with date and time. Meanwhile I'm ducking back down in my foxhole to wait for some interesting threads. :-)
AnswerID: 521692

Reply By: howesy - Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 22:19

Monday, Nov 18, 2013 at 22:19
They have been here all along it's just that as the site gets bigger you notice it more. It's too easy to hide behind a keyboard so you get it everywhere unfortunately.
AnswerID: 521693

Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 02:35

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 02:35
Well I can only speak from my point of view,obviously.

I am quite happy to open any thread that appears to contain a subject and hopefully some information that could be of use to me.
As far as contributing I try as much as possible to confine my input to subjects that I feel I have some knowledge of and hope that this posting may help someone out.
Lately I have tried to refrain from getting into arguments that appear to be headed for a urinating contest. I will post and leave it at that. There are some who appear to relish the contest rather than provide useful info.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 521696

Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 06:41

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 06:41
Gday Pop
There are some who corelate the information of a post and put that information back in as their own.
Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 802455

Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 07:01

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 07:01
"There are some who appear to relish the contest rather than provide useful info."

Well said!

Cheers

John
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 802456

Follow Up By: Member - Allan L2 - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:03

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:03
J & V, I very much agree with you & unfortunately some of these have very little real knowledge on the subject, particularly mechanical issue's.
Cheers
0
FollowupID: 802484

Reply By: Phil B (WA) - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 07:42

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 07:42
Good point Toonfish

I have a beef with some posters.

They post a Q - then EO forumites spend a lot of time to formulate an answer or give advice and there is no acknowledgment, please or thank you from the poster - very rude.

cheers

There is a lot of difference between
‘Human Being’ and ‘Being Human’.





Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 521697

Follow Up By: Phil B (WA) - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 07:44

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 07:44
Sorry that should be Tonyfish.


There is a lot of difference between
‘Human Being’ and ‘Being Human’.





Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

2
FollowupID: 802458

Follow Up By: Member - Duncan W (WA) - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 16:02

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 16:02
Agree with you there Phil. A simple click on theThanks tab is all that is needed. But how often do you se stacks of replies with zero follow-ups.

Cheers

Dunc
Dunc
Make sure you give back more than you take

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

2
FollowupID: 802511

Follow Up By: Mick O - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 21:56

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 21:56
I thanked you boys ;-)
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 802628

Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 08:01

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 08:01
Many posts appearing in this forum are “opinion” based, whether it is a debate about the best tyre, vehicle, or whatever it might be and consequently there is a high degree of passion in some of the posts.

But for the most part, I think people are generally courteous, and treat others as they would like to be treated themselves. As a whole, I think that rings true of this forum.

It really comes down to respect; respect the right of someone to differ from your view point, and take into account people may express themselves differently, especially with the written word.

Whether I compose an email, or write a letter, or even put together a post into this forum, I always do it in a “word document” and before hitting the send button I go and review it a couple of times and ask myself, is the what I am trying to say… Often it is an excellent circuit breaker!

Ps Tony...trust that boat is going well!

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
AnswerID: 521700

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 16:43

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 16:43
Baz - Only used it twice :-( total of 8hrs!

A few teething issues which are now sorted out, so this weekend is a go. It rides the seas as good as expected, no more Alloy Thumps for the older bones :-) Wife loves that!

Thanks for you reply

Regards Tony
0
FollowupID: 802517

Reply By: bks - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:25

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:25
This makes me feel a little guilty as I once responded to a post quite bluntly, that I believe contained absolute rubbish. In hind sight I should have just ignored it.

Now that I have confessed my sins, I do think some of the forum "experts" do belittle those of us seeking advise.

Also I think of the case a few months ago, when it turned out that a regular contributor on this forum and other forums was a fraud. He claimed to be variously an aboriginal or aboriginal expert and ended up fleecing some contributors. I wonder if some of his strange contributions had of been challenged more forcefully, people may have been a bit more alert to his scam.

I think people were a bit too Politically correct to have a go at him.
AnswerID: 521710

Follow Up By: Herbal - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:07

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:07
Do you mean this -

"Take your hand off it mate, what a lot of crap."

Which was replied to with -

From Department of Primary Industries, Government website - quote

Carp have been introduced into Australia both deliberately, in an attempt to imitate the European environment, and accidentally, through the escape of ornamental or aquaculture fish.

In Victoria, the stocking of carp began as early as 1859, but early stocking attempts were not successful. In NSW, the earliest known introductions occurred near Sydney in 1865. In the early 1900s, fingerlings were used to establish several wild populations of carp around Sydney, including in Prospect Reservoir (where they still persist).

end quote.

Just asking.
0
FollowupID: 802485

Follow Up By: bks - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:31

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:31
yes it is the one
0
FollowupID: 802488

Follow Up By: Herbal - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:51

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:51
Thank you.

I will take your above post as an apology... and I accept it.

So all is good :)
1
FollowupID: 802490

Follow Up By: howesy - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 13:29

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 13:29
It seems a lot of people if they haven;t seen it them self refuse to believe and jump straight to ridicule. I remember some years ago a bloke practically abused me and started to get nasty because he just couldn't accept that my spark plugs lasted over 100,000km,,,,,, now its a service interval to change them that often,,, new technology creeps in.
1
FollowupID: 802495

Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 14:27

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 14:27
This was posted about our farming operation a few days ago........

"87k for this and 104k for that? OK...So what was your profit. Or if you are embarrassed to state your profit, what was your takings?

No one in their right mind would spend $104,000 on water for a crop not worth at least millions!!!"

Manners Herbal?
2
FollowupID: 802503

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 16:47

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 16:47
It is true most of us have been guilty on a few occasions, but we can better this and make the effort hence forth to be nice to all our Forum contributors, no matter their opinion :-)

Regards Tony
2
FollowupID: 802518

Follow Up By: Mick O - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 22:24

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 22:24
BKS, no reluctantly I did mention the errors of that persons ways in a post. It was not something I normally do and I agonised over it for quite a while but in the end, the need to expose his fraudulent claims and behaviors overcame my reluctance.

I wasn't proud of the experience and it cost me credibility then as the sniping continued through member circles for quite a while. Strangely enough since he was exposed on that other site, that seems to have stopped. Fortunately (or unfortunately) he focused his concentration in other areas than EO after that.

I get no satisfaction in being proved correct believe me. I'm just disappointed that he got to take in so many gullible people on this site and others.

These days I do get disappointed when I see people deride others or tackle them over spelling and grammar rather than making a positive contribution. It seems so petty. Others put themselves out there as experts and then get stroppy when others have a differing opinion. Yep there are a few rude pricks who take great satisfaction in deliberately belittling others and stirring the pot but then we all know who they are so it's just as easy not to bite and stay out of it.


Cheers Mick
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

3
FollowupID: 802632

Follow Up By: F Goerke - NSW - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 17:50

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 17:50
Wasn't that expert in aboriginal ways from up there at Mulan and many other things, a life member here? What a time that was Mick!
0
FollowupID: 802716

Follow Up By: Mick O - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 18:20

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 18:20
Saw him in July Fred when I was back in Mulan, big, alive and as white as ever. Still peddling the same old stories though. I hope some took away a lesson from it all. If it seems so incredible and amazing, then it probably isn't!

Here's a trip down memory lane for you.

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 802717

Follow Up By: F Goerke - NSW - Friday, Nov 22, 2013 at 10:03

Friday, Nov 22, 2013 at 10:03
Ahh yes. The memories.

BTW That book is on it's way. Someone else wanted a quick read before I posted it off.

0
FollowupID: 802758

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Friday, Nov 22, 2013 at 18:31

Friday, Nov 22, 2013 at 18:31
Well...I feel I have to come clean after all that. I'm really a 70 year old spinster with 30 pet cats and no licence or car. I feel so much better now. :-)
0
FollowupID: 802787

Reply By: Andrew D. - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 15:10

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 15:10
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Personal Attacks Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
AnswerID: 521721

Reply By: Member - John and Val - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 17:24

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 17:24
As I write it's just 24 hours since the original post. In 24 hours there have been 45 responses and it has been viewed almost 1600 times. I'm sure that's not a record, but it is certainly up there with the most active posts. We obviously do care about this.

Lets try and act on it - a bit more patience and courtesy, less agro, less rudeness.

Cheers

John
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 521724

Follow Up By: Herbal - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 18:36

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 18:36
Fair comment John...

For what it might be worth, I think the high readership has more to do with some home truths being exposed. Along with those that are making popcorn what for the next flame war to start :)

It is all about how things are read. The meaning intended by the writer is lost the very second the reader starts to read...

For example...scroll up...scroll right up to the very first post...the opening post of this thread...Now read the first sentence...

OK. Have you read it? Good... Now I am not saying this is what Tony intended... I am saying this is how it reads or can be read...

The Forum has gone to pot and people are being rude and not polite to each other because Tony has not been on the Forum for awhile. The first, opening sentence implies that Tony is holding this Forum together and when he goes away for a little time, it all falls apart.

Is that what Tony meant? I don't think so... But that is how it reads!

At the end of the day, no matter what the intension of the writer, the reader will determine the meaning.
0
FollowupID: 802527

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 18:37

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 18:37
John - Yes it very encouraging! It is great to see! Regards Tony
0
FollowupID: 802528

Reply By: F Goerke - NSW - Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 20:01

Tuesday, Nov 19, 2013 at 20:01
I'm just a lurker here these days, after letting my membership slip this month after holding membership for a lot of years. I love the site, but the whole concept of it has changed from what I first enjoyed. Like everything else in life, times and people change, and not always for the better. I have seen this discussion many times over the years, and it seems to run in cycles. I guess what we are hearing is the voice of the current generation. They probably don't mean to appear rude, offensive, abrupt, insulting, but is the way of these times. Long time members drop out leaving the newer members to carry on, mostly not in the same vein as the older brigade. That's progress I guess Nothing last's forever, except the wonderful friendships we have made. There have been and will always continue to be sensational contributions to this site. People like Mother Hen, John & Val, Mick O, Willem, Doug Q, NT, NSW ???, Dave B, Axle, Allan B, Sir Kev, and numerous others long gone from here, will have others take their place. I hope the site does continues for ever, and I for one, will be lurking :-) (for the present anyway).
AnswerID: 521737

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 17:46

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 17:46
People come and go Fred. John and Val have posted in this thread, MickO and Kev are here all the time, Motherhen and DougNT still post.

Its not progress its just the way things change. The concept hasn't changed at all, its we who change. Go to a gathering and see which generation is mainly represented in the crowd, its not Gen X or Gen Y. I dont know what you mean by the current generation, but we have here a huge cross section of generations

.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 802596

Follow Up By: F Goerke - NSW - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 18:35

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 18:35
There you go Bonz, good example of how others interpret differently, what is written. I never said those posters were gone from here. I'm actually in constant touch with a few of them. I did add "and numerous others long gone from here".

I never commented on which generation does or doesn't support gatherings. I gave my opinion as to where I think the underlying problem of the subject matter of this discussion, namely "Good old manners" stems from.

You have your opinion, and I have mine, and I am sure most everyone else who responded to this post has theirs.

Cheers.

Formerly FredG NSW.
0
FollowupID: 802607

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 20:21

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 20:21
Dead right mate, yep we read how we read which is rarely how we write.

It was the "numerous others long gone from here" that lead me down that path. Many have left for many reasons, some of which are folklore and few of which are facts.

Thats why to me lifetime membership is so easy, and if you come along to a gathering you might win one!
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 802614

Follow Up By: Mick O - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 21:50

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 21:50
G’day there old cock, good to see you post. I’ve actually typed a reply at several locations and occasions in the thread without finalising it but I am motivated to reply to yours. You’re right, it is a great site and there is a lot of benefit to be gained. God I remember all the help I got when I first started asking questions in 2005. I got seriously flamed a few times as well for no good reason other than framing my questions to well...go figure! You know compared to now, the forum back then was like the old wild west. There was a damn sight more overt nastiness than there is now. It was interesting but by goodness it could get scarily out of control. Yep there are some opinionated individuals and attention seekers kicking around here now but compared to back then, they are mere minnows! That’s why D & M introduced forum rules and when they were constantly ignored, moderation policy. Yep it was interesting at times but by goodness there were some egos that couldn’t be restrained. We could wax lyrical over those who’ve come and gone, the occasional battles we’ve fought and all the rest but the site goes on, the contributions still get made, the help is forthcoming. The ironic thing is that “this generation” is still us. All those people you mentioned are still here or still lurking. Like you, they know and love the site and continue to lurk despite the various reasons for “leaving”. There are no ghosts here. The collective wisdom remains and the echoes of the past contributors are recorded in the archived threads for everyone to find should they wish.

Mate I hate to see a member leave because they are the backbone of the site. They are the ones who see the value of the site and what it has to offer as worth contributing too. You hit the nail on the head when you said you’ve made friends for life though EO. My adventures these days are with people I met here (except those pesky damn Canadians)(Oh and Outback Al. He’s like a bad smell that bloke always hanging around). It doesn’t happen as often as it used to but some of the newer contributors do carry on in the vein of the old and that’s what’s causing the problem lol. It’s circular. I must confess I didn’t like it much back then because of those antics. I appreciated the value to be gained though so became a member and have been so ever since. It was interesting but it had its issues and those issues largely prevented the inclusiveness we have in the forum now. Think carefully about it and you’ll remember what I’m talking about.

Fred, the way you choose to contribute to the forum is your choice, just keep on doing it.

Cheers, Mick
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 802626

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 09:42

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 09:42
Seeing this post is about manners, I respectively submit to you Mick that it is spelt "echoes". I remain in your debt.

Yours elusively

Bonz

p.s. your woards are spoart on mate.
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 802680

Follow Up By: Mick O - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 18:22

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 18:22
I know, know ....know.....know
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 802718

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Friday, Nov 22, 2013 at 18:12

Friday, Nov 22, 2013 at 18:12
Touche old mate... mate.... mate
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 802784

Reply By: Luke F1 - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 17:13

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 17:13
Seems to be the same few on here who like to cut and paste from google to sound like they know it all. We all know how to use google. Often people are after real life advice and experiences not just a quote from the text book. It not a requirement for each person to reply to each post especially when they don't have anything constructive to say
AnswerID: 521777

Follow Up By: Skulldug - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 21:20

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 21:20
LukeI couldn't agree more. There are a few regulars here that spoil the tone for everyone.

From the replies above, they don't seem to realise.
1
FollowupID: 802620

Follow Up By: Gramps - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 21:40

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 21:40
"From the replies above, they don't seem to realise."

Well put Skulldug. Thought I was alone with that impression. The irony in some of the replies is mind boggling.

Regards
1
FollowupID: 802623

Reply By: mikehzz - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 07:05

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 07:05
On the internet, it soon becomes evident if you have half a brain, that you just always have to resist the temptation to bite. You can't win any arguments, especially with idiots....all that happens is you get cheesed off and vow to never visit a forum again. The best advice is to state facts and opinions based on your own experience and completely ignore those people who are rude or obviously wrong. After all, they could be teenagers just trying to stir you up for a laugh...most of the time you have no idea who you are dealing with or what their real motives are. The rules of engagement for anonymous internet communication are different so you have to change with it. That's my opinion from experience anyway. :-)
AnswerID: 521812

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 07:53

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 07:53
You are quite right of course Mike.
Sometimes I find it hard to 'bite-ones-tongue' especially on matters of electrical safety for the benefit of others. But alas, once in a while it results in a shitstorm.
Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 802653

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 08:22

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 08:22
I ask myself a few questions before I post anywhere now...is that a hook in my mouth...am I chewing on some bait? Flame wars are quite entertaining if you aren't in them. I never really think highly of the participants though. I have however found quite a few people who resist the urge to bite under the most tempting circumstances and have thought the better of them for it. I'm trying to learn from them. Cheers.
1
FollowupID: 802658

Follow Up By: Gnomey - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 08:50

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 08:50
G'day Allan
Read through this thread. Came to your post and this came to me. Mike more than hinted at it in reply 20. I wonder if it would make any difference to you if you realised how many people are able to sort the wheat from the chaff? I, for one, long ago realised that you ( personally) post on stuff you have informed view about and don't post otherwise.

When you know what you are talking about and you "bite back" (and "you" = people generally) it runs some risk of redundancy. Most people, I suspect, see it as a bite back. OTOH I don't believe rudeness should go unchallenged. It's a fine line but FWIW I think your judgment is pretty sound.

Some people very rarely cross the line, some do occasionally and some just want to see how over the line they can get. The last thrive on conflict. Ignored they will usually seek O2 elsewhere. Eventually the group will turn on them. Occasional transgressors can be reasoned with.

Oh and btw the glowie timer unit in my 2002 HZj78R was stuck up under the dash and it cost a fortune to have bugger dug out and replaced. Time over. I wouldn't bother. :)

Cheers
Mark
1
FollowupID: 802666

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 09:47

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 09:47
Hey Al, I work in an Electricity DB, dealing specifically with electrical safety and regulatory reporting, and found myself drawn into inflamed discussions about whats safe and whats not. Its not the discussion or even the content per se that we need to avoid, but the bagging commentary, Words stated above like "it is my experoience that....." or "I have always found that...." go a long way further than "Thats the dumbest thing I have heard all day....." to which my reply usually is ... wait till you get to know me if you think this is dumb!.....

By all means put your two bobs worth in.
.
Time is an illusion produced by the passage of history
.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

1
FollowupID: 802681

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:04

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 10:04
Thanks guys for your considerate support.

This recent event started back in Thread 105085 where a certain person denigrated another regular. I responded in his support and got stung.

Then it arose again here but has thankfully been dealt with by the Moderator.

Maybe I should keep my "two bob" in my pocket Bonz?

Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 802682

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 16:31

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 16:31
Hi there Gnomey, hope the Oldgirl is going well, Troopy that is! LOL
I'm still using my manual glow plug button. It suits me fine. Cheers mate.
Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 802704

Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 14:57

Thursday, Nov 21, 2013 at 14:57
Good Post, Tony, & I agree generally with the sentiments of other posters on the
subject.
I have a list of posters on my desk that I don't respond to, not that I respond to everyone, but these folk annoyed me to some degree, & I decided there was no useful
purpose in becoming involved.
I also freely admit to being a likely candidate for other peoples similar lists, but I have
seen the error of my ways ,& now make a more conscious effort to not cause offense.
My list has shrunk considerably too, as most of the "outcasts" no longer offer their
knowledge on this site...but I guess there will always be the odd one.
I enjoy this site immensely, & congratulate the operators on the control & content.
I suspect posts suggesting a bit of self regulation may be required from time to time,
& congratulate you, Tony, for bringing it forward for our consideration..
cheers......oldbaz.
AnswerID: 521830

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)