When Do you leave your car when Bogged

Today 2 young men arrived at the homestead after walking 30klm after their car got bogged. It took them 1 day and half the night before they camped up arriving at 7.00am this morning. They were severely sun burnt had no food and little water. They contacted me on Wednesday saying they were heading out and should be here that night. When they did not arrive on Thursday, and the track was still wet from rain. I was about to ring the police to get a search party when the showed up.
After feeding them and given drinks I loaded up the 4x4 with all the recovery gear and went out to see if I could get them out of the bog. When we arrived at the car it was down to the floor boards. After a few snatch attempts we got it out.
This should not of happened if they stayed on the track and not go to the side of the road because it looked better. I had no trouble getting past them on the track to do the snatch. Question is should overseas visitors go through a course before traveling in remote places. They did not tell anyone their plans, were not set up with any recovery gear, and had little water and food.
As I am the only person for quite a few hundred klm I could not and would not go searching for them as we are in the wet season and I don't need to end up like them.
What do you all feel about some sort of course for overseas travellers.
Andy.
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 18:47

Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 18:47
Hi Andy,

Unless such a course was a prerequisite to hire the vehicle in the first place, it just would not happen.

I am a little amazed that no recovery gear is provided as part of the vehicle hire, but then again that would require the driver to have some experience in using it.

Come to think of it, I doubt whether a hirer is even supposed to take the vehicle off-road at all.

They were very fortunate indeed to have made it in one piece and find someone willing to help them out of the poo!



Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 08:45

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 08:45
Hi Sand Man,
It wasn't a hire car. They bought it for $1500, an old Jeep.
Andy
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 19:03

Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 19:03
From our experience with Rent-a-Prado drivers on the Gibb, the companies just chuck them the keys and say "good luck".



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Reply By: rocco2010 - Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 19:22

Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 19:22
Gidday

This sort of thing has been happening for years and it is not always tourists, more than a few locals have been caught out.

Some people have common sense, some don't, you can't legislate it into them.

the mining industry has taken it to the nth degree where you usually can't go on site without an induction course or certificates in this and that but short of a checkpoint at both ends of every remote track to make sure people know what lies ahead, I don't know what you can do.

Cheers
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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 19:43

Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 19:43
Gday,
What's the difference between overseas travellers and Interstate travellers? Un prepared travellers have been around for years and will be around for years to come...........no law is going to stop people getting bogged.
People have travelled this country for years without all the gadgets and learned how to get themselves out of their own problems. If people wish to travel around without being decked out like the Leyland brothers and the bushskills of Russsel Coight that's up to them.
I'm over people making laws to protect everyone from themselves........let them learn from their mistakes and their own "adventures".
With a screen name like yours Id assume your out there doing the same?

Cheers
AnswerID: 522676

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 07:38

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 07:38
Spot on Hairy
Take responsibility for your own actions. The whole concept of 'dry hire' is that you intend to operate the vehicle yourself. If you do not have the skills to do so take a bus tour or engage a tour guide
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 08:56

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 08:56
Hi Hairy,
I don't want laws either but maybe some form of written basic bush survival skills would come in handy.
I travel solo and do have all the equipment to get myself out of problems, which up to date I have managed to avoid.

........let them learn from their mistakes, could be their last mistake.
Cheers Andy
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 09:28

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 09:28
"do have all the equipment"......I very much doubt that. Arent you travelling solo? Some would argue that another person in case you had an accident would be handy "equipment" Im sure you have the equipment YOU think you need.......
Im not sure how long you have been in Lorella Springs or travelling but Im sure you have learnt a few things since you got there and probably made a few mistakes too..........if not, your not trying hard enough. LOL
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 10:41

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 10:41
I can see a new paragraph to the contract saying that you are aware of recovery and safety in the bush. Yep right down the bottom in about font size 8 or smaller. And with the keys on the counter and having paid the bill they casually ask you to "sign here". Things won't change.

Even now with the proliferation of 4WD courses there would be thousands who do not think that it is for them and besides they only have two weeks to do the Canning and don't have time to do a course. And then you have the "head in the sand" syndrome. It won't happen to me. So they will just sign to say that they did a recovery and 4WD course. The hire companies will not take responsibility so they don't care if you had or had not done one. That's the customers problem.

It would be nice to stop all creek, dam and river drownings but we can't fence all the places. It comes back to Tom, Dick, Harry and the idiots.

Unfortunately it is a man's right to be an idiot. To put himself, herself and anyone with them, at risk. Luckily for mankind the greater majority survive and learn and then a few don't.

Question:
I will say this to stimulate a comment or response; Should we really have to legislate for such a few idiots? I am not convinced that we should. But neither am I saying bad luck. I still have feelings for fellow man whether a mate, a murderer, a thief, a jaywalker or, god forbid, a Collingwood supporter.

Legislation wouldn't work.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 11:33

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 11:33
"Unfortunately it is a man's right to be an idiot." Quite so Phil.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: andrew t - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 13:51

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 13:51
agree with most of the above except the collingwood supporters.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 20:00

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 20:00
Hahahaha.......sorry Andrew but I thought the bit about Collingwood supporters was the only bit that wasn't debatable! LOL

"Should we really have to legislate for such a few idiots?

My opinion.....NO That's half the problem. People are that used to others thinking for them they don't need to any more.

"If I need to slow down for the corner there will be a sign up ahead to tell me............"
"If I need to take recovery gear someone would have already packed it...."
"If I shouldn't drive around the water on the road there would be a fence....."

Common sense isn't need anymore. There is someone doing it for us. I reckon the quicker people are made to think for themselves the quicker it might become second nature or "common" again ........

Just my thoughts

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 20:48

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 20:48
Hairy

The trouble with "Common Sense" is that it's not very common !


Gazz
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Reply By: cookie1 - Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 20:06

Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 20:06
Unfortunately the message just doesn't get through to people like this, Caroline Grossmueller died needlessly ( http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/73559/1998_Death_at_Halligans_Bay_-_Caroline_Grossmueller.aspx ) and I think that, whilst some agree with Darwins theory of natural selection, the gruesome task by those that have to deal with it would be overwhelming and we do need to hold the hire companies to some form of responsible behaviour.

Of course, at the end of the day they are responsible for their actions and a good stiff penalty for not covering their bases is in order.

cheers
AnswerID: 522678

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 20:20

Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 20:20
Gday,
The car hire company is in the business of hiring cars not education?
You don't get a cooking lesson when you buy food or a mechanical certificate when you buy car parts do you?
If the car is hired out in good mechanical order and had a safety check before it goes out I reckon they have shown as much responsibility as the need to.
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Reply By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 20:07

Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 20:07
Andy,

Was it raining on Wednesday when they called you? if it was why didn't you tell them not to venture out if the road conditions were bad?

They did tell someone - you, that they were heading to your location. Local knowledge is good but if they haven't driven on our regional roads before how are they to know if they are not informed to take caution when informing people of their destination.


Cheers Kev
Russell Coight:
He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 20:53

Friday, Dec 06, 2013 at 20:53
Mmmmm. Something sounds a bit odd.
Is Andy the owner or worker or something? You'd think if the roads were wet a bit of advice like....stick to the track....or don't come out might have helped????
Everybody makes mistakes and driving around water or boggy patches on the road is a quite common one........
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 09:25

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 09:25
Hi Kev,
No it wasn't raining and they did ask about the road. As I am 30klm from the main road (Savannah Way) and out here it could be wet here and dry 2 klm out.
I did tell them that I have not been on the road for some 6 weeks and could not tell them if it was ok. I also told them that I would not be able to recovery as my truck has some problems at the time. They were also told that it had rained here last week and the creeks would be up and flowing.
As I get a lot of calls saying we are coming out for a few days and don't show, you don't know if they are coming or not. However I was ringing the police that day to find out if they did leave and inform them of a no show.
I try to discourage people coming up this time of year as I have enough food for myself for the 5 months and when the wet starts you will not be able to get out.
Last year and it was a dry wet it took 10 days to get to town 186klm. Track was dry here but 45klm out it was wet and creeks flooded.
Cheers Andy
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Reply By: get outmore - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 02:11

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 02:11
Hire vehicles come with epirbs

30k is fa

Less than a days walk.
Ive done furthet after getting bogged.
Walked 10hours. No one at the station so slept in shearers quarters and rung help next day from open homestead
AnswerID: 522687

Reply By: mikehzz - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 07:38

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 07:38
A course for overseas travellers is in practical terms, impossible. The best you could do would be for the government to produce a remote travel survival booklet in different languages and have it as a mandatory document they receive when getting the car. The same booklet should be available to locals. Then the info is with them in the car in a language they understand. If they choose not to consult it, or ignore it then so be it. Running courses for overseas travellers would be a logistical nightmare for everyone involved. I must say I am a bit over nanny state legislation. Those guys will remember that experience all their lives, even brag to friends about being "stuck in the wilderness", covered in mud and unbelievable sunburn. Sure, it could have ended badly, but you could also be hit by a bus getting a sandwich in the middle of a city. Lets not take the life out of life.
AnswerID: 522690

Reply By: Member - Jack - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 08:39

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 08:39
Education won't happen. There's nothing that can be done to protect people from themselves, so it's not worth losing any sleep over it. As they say in the classics .. "sheet happens".

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Reply By: Echucan Bob - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 09:20

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 09:20
The fatalities that spring to mind are:

the German tourists at Lake Eyre Explor Oz item Coroners Report

Canadian teacher on Sandy Blight Junction Track (early 70s)

the two young station workers south of Balgo 1986 deaths

the guy at Ethabuka (Eastern Simpson) SMH report

the two locals between Kintore and Nyrrippi. SMH report

In all but the first two, the participants lived or were working near the place of their death. All except the Canadian left their vehicle. He was found as a black, shrivelled corpse sitting at the wheel of his bogged vehicle.

Let someone know of your plans. Take plenty of water. Have adequate comms. Stay with the vehicle.

Bob
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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 09:36

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 09:36
Another incident
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Follow Up By: equinox - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 14:07

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 14:07
So only a mere handful of incidences over a period of 40 years or so. Hardly enough to warrant any offical warning system.

Probably more people get taken by sharks surfing.

You would have more chance getting hit by a car on the way to the local shop.
Cheers Alan

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.
"Outback Yonder"


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Follow Up By: Slow one - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 15:04

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 15:04
Alan,
I think you got that wrong. Most people get taken by land based sharks. LOL.
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Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 16:24

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 16:24
I can remember, from the 1970's, amongst all the graffiti at the Ninety-Mile Tank on the Lake King-Norseman Road - someone had chalked in charcoal on the tank - "broke down here (xxx date), and walked 54 miles (87kms) to the Norseman Rd to get help! It's a BLOODY LONG WAY!!" LOL

I felt like chalking in a reply - "but it was a BLOODY GOOD LESSON, wasn't it!" - but they'd probably never gone that way again.

I must be a rank amateur, I used to travel all these lonely tracks in nothing more than a 2WD Holden ute. I didn't take to these tracks right after it had rained, though. I'd travel with a 20L poly drum of water, maybe a couple of jerrycans of petrol - and a good range of tools and small repair items.
Back then - no mobile phones, no EPIRB's, no hugely expensive HF radios, CB radios were unheard of - and you just told family and friends when you expected to be at point X - and to come looking if they hadn't heard from you, by a set date.

I think most of today's generation are brought up with no idea what it means to be totally isolated, and to be independent.

What about all the travellers of the 1930's, '40's, '50's and '60's who never knew what 4WD and good roads were?
East-West truckies who pounded their way along the nearly-non-existent road across the long paddock - having to be totally self-supporting and resourceful?

I can remember reading a story of the bloke with the station mail truck leaving Pt Hedland in 1952 - and a third of the way to Broome, he came across 2 blokes on BICYCLES, who had ridden down from Broome!
They carried rifles, light swags and some water, and had been living off the land, and were in good shape - but the mail truck man said he gave them a loaf of bread, that they devoured in minutes! - with them not having seen or tasted bread since they'd left Broome, 3 weeks before!
AnswerID: 522711

Follow Up By: KevinE - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 18:32

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 18:32
Hi Ron,

I had a CB radio in a Holden Panel Van on my travels in the '70's.

So I had heard of them.

It got me out of trouble once, so at least one other person in my immediate vicinity had one too lol!

;-)

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Reply By: Ron N - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 18:49

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 18:49
G'Day Kevin -

Gee, you must have been one of the rich blokes! A NEW Holden van, too, I suppose! LOL

I was talking about the early 70's when I said no CB's. In my neck of the woods (wheatbelt and Goldfields of W.A.) there were a few odd scattered blokes with imported American CB's, but they were a real novelty, and not legal, anyway.

18CH CB wasn't legalised until 1977 and 40CH UHF CB wasn't legalised until 1980.
I believe you could get done for some serious dollars before those dates, if you were caught with an "illegal" American CB, because the bandwidth wasn't officially allocated.

CB radio in Australia

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 522716

Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 21:23

Saturday, Dec 07, 2013 at 21:23
Kevin didn't say anything about his Cb being LEGAL!! ;)

I had one in my vehicle then too, but had a "hidden" antenna and so I didn't get pinged!
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