Comment: EOTopo 200K

I looked under the Christmas Tree and couldn't resist unwrapping a present with my name on it.
A USB stick with an EO logo on it.
Turned out to be the EO Topo 200K that David's been raving about lately.
I loaded it all ok, just copy and pasted the files to my oziexplorer/maps/Eotopo directory. (Ok, I created the Eotopo bit just earlier)
Had a choice of ECW or OZF format.
Opened Oziexplorer and selected a map - it opened first time.
You have a choice of all the states, with NSW and VIC bundled together, and an all of Australia map.
I must admit I wouldn't use this product for large city or town navigation, not because it isn't any good I might add, but because I am quite capable of reading street signs. The out of the way areas seem to have all the tracks you would need. Sand ridges seem to be in the right place, as does vegetation location.Creek systems are quite accurate, though not as detailed as Natmaps 2008 series of maps.
The scale of 200K is a bit unusual, however is not a limiting feature. I'm used to gridlines of 10k or 50k, the 25k lines will be easy enough to get used to.
Elevation Points are labeled, however contours are not. I have not tried the DEM data, however have not used this for years anyway, so will probably not utilise.
Good to see all the EO Trek notes on the maps, that's a good selling point. Also the complete EO place database is part of the package. Although these points are uploaded by EO members and public, and I'm guessing un-verified, they would serve to be a useful tool. (I checked a few places I have uploaded over the years and they are in the correct positions).
I am disappointed that lakes are not shown.
I would like to see more tenure boundaries in the future, such as Stations and Native Title.
Free updates have been promised, so I'm sure that this product will evolve into something that further reflects what the average EO member and public will need for their 4WD and general traveling requirements.
This is a discussion and not an actual review however if i could give it an official star rating I would give it 4 out of 5 stars.
Have a good Christmas everyone. and happy and adventurous travels in 2014.
Cheers
Alan






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Reply By: Sludgie W.A - Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:26

Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:26
You are a very naughty boy. You are not allowed to open your presents before Christmas day even if there was only 2 hours to go.

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Follow Up By: Life Member - Fred B (ex-NT) - Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:49

Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:49
Then I will have to admit to being naughty as welll... I opened my EO Toppo about 10 days ago....... and now that I have had the time to "play" with it.... I agree with Equinox and his comments. No doubt David has plans to have EO Toppo to be the absolute best product on the market.

Look forward to the updates as they come to hand.
regards
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Follow Up By: Member - Duncan W (WA) - Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 19:54

Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 19:54
What you were still awake at 10:00pm, you run out of Red Backs early or something?

Merry Christmas mate and to Mrs Sludgie and the girls.

Cheers

D & K
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 17:23

Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 17:23
It was just a slight deviation from what I should do and what I shouldn't, naughty is very harsh lol.

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Reply By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 14:15

Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 14:15
Hi

I would have thought as a minimum it would have been identical to Natmap 2008 ..as they are they both derived from the same data set (well that's my understanding of situation) - strange that some watercourses and lakes are not shown. D & M are on holidays but no doubt we will get and explanation in due course.

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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 17:24

Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 17:24
Probably some sort of formatting error, I don't think it will worry 80% of users will worry about it Greg!!

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 18:40

Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 18:40
Hi

Not sure what you mean by "formatting error". All the various features (major creeks, minor creeks, major roads, minor roads, contours, hills. localities) making up the original GA 250K data set are available as separate files...in the same format (e.g. ESRI shapefile format - think there are other formats as well).

So, my guess is that

1. The features you say are missing (compared to 2008 Natmap) are not included in the download from the GA website - so Dave couldn't include them in EOTopo..or

2. He has accidentally left them off.

I am pretty sure he would like to include the data if it is available so no doubt he will be looking into it when he gets back. Not catering for 1/5th of your target audience (if you can easily) is pretty significant (though realise the number is a guess). If the data is available may as well be displayed (on 200K map that is).

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Greg
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 19:40

Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 19:40
Greg - if it is not a formatting error then I will go with your number 1 option. Perhaps the data is not included in the main data set, or maybe a licensing issue. Cost factors? Not sure..

Alan


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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 19:52

Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 19:52
Hi

Yeah not sure either - suggest you provide Dave, on his return, specific area and example so he can provide proper answer.

Doubt there is a cost or licensing issue - the 250K data in all its forms is free to everyone for download and use (including on-selling - no royalties/license fee) - you just need to acknowledge source ("creative commons license" or something)..unless the data in question was supplied from elsewhere with separate copyright (doubt it).

Note: Obviously once modified (e.g. EOTopo) copyright issue changes.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Saturday, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:53

Saturday, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:53
Hey guys, just looked at the post. Still on hols but sitting quietly in he sunshine. You caught me it was an oops issue. It has since been fixed and if you look at the latest online version the non-perennial water bodies are correctly visible in 2014.2 . I have this documented in the updates page but it was simply a spelling issue in the map definition I had a capital P and it wanted a lower p.

We have added heapsore road labels and a slight reformat of some label in the 2014.2 which makes it heaps better, also the label rescaling will make some labels bigger in the next 200k release. This will be sometime I Feb/Mar, just depends on how long it takes us to get the more road updates loaded (I want Vic HC finished to a 50k level in the next major release).

Please do keep telling us your thoughts, issues, updates and any other suggestions it is with this that the product will move forward.
David (DM) & Michelle (MM)
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Follow Up By: equinox - Saturday, Dec 28, 2013 at 18:42

Saturday, Dec 28, 2013 at 18:42
Hi David,

Thanks for that - I will wait for the next update then.

Enjoy the rest of your hols.

Cheers
Alan

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Reply By: Member - John N (SA) - Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 15:49

Wednesday, Dec 25, 2013 at 15:49
Thanks for the discussion Alan. We are keen users of Ozi and where ever we travel, we use maps from Hema, Westprint and the Natmap 250K. (we have the Tom Tom for when not in the bush).

I'm quite looking forward to purchasing the EOTopo product before we head for the Kimberley next year. From what I have read on this site so far, it seems it will top what we currently use, especially with the bonus of the places database. We currently use Ozi on a Galaxy Tab and it works very well - as does EOTrackme. Member George from WA was experimenting using EOTopo on his Galaxy, but I haven't heard of late how it is going.

We will watch this and other like threads with interest over the next few weeks.

Cheers & wishing you a great Christmas and safe travels

John
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Follow Up By: Member - Michael W14 - Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 16:19

Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 16:19
Works fine on both my Galaxy 3 and my Samsung Tablet.
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 17:27

Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 17:27
I use the Samsung Galaxy Tablet on my travels at the moment, great little unit.


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Reply By: Member - Michael W14 - Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 16:24

Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 16:24
"I must admit I wouldn't use this product for large city or town navigation, not because it isn't any good I might add, but because I am quite capable of reading street signs. "

G'day Alan,
E TOPO isn't any good for city navigation, as it only shows the major roads (ie between suburbs).
I never use Oziexplorer in the city anyway, so it matters not, to me. I use my talking navigator or Google Maps.
Willie.
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Follow Up By: Member - Michael W14 - Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 16:26

Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 16:26
I must add that I like my E TOPO much better than my old 250K Natmap.
Willie.
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 17:30

Thursday, Dec 26, 2013 at 17:30
Hi Mike,

Good to hear from you after all these years.

I know it probably isn't the best map to use for cities, my comment was more just commenting that the cities are included even if the data wouldn't be used for street nav.

The jury's out I reckon, wont be long before a decision is made :-)

Alan

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Reply By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Saturday, Dec 28, 2013 at 10:24

Saturday, Dec 28, 2013 at 10:24
Sadly I do not have such a compliant Christmas tree, so I had to buy it for myself. But I pay the Christmas tree bills anyway so it is really all the same.

I bought the 2 device licence from the Digital Map Shop via Memory-Map to use on my newly acquired (not via the Christmas tree either) Nexus 7 tablet. Obviously the PC version, costing more as it does, has additional information.

I have spent a fair bit of time over the last few days using the new map in conjunction with Wikicamps to do some planning. My main complaint, if it is such, is the lack of place names. I find myself continually switching back to the Topo map that came free with MM to locate places missing from EOTopo. David said, I think, that he did not want to clutter the map unduly with places but I hope more will be added in future updates. The free MM topo map has distances in many cases which I find very useful for planning so I wonder if this feature will be added to EOTopo?

But other than that it behaves itself when used for actual navigation on my Samsung Ace Plus. I'm waiting on a holder for the tablet before I can give it and the map a real test, but so far so good.

Cheers, Kevin
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Follow Up By: equinox - Saturday, Dec 28, 2013 at 18:39

Saturday, Dec 28, 2013 at 18:39
Hi Kevin,

I'm using Ozi to run both my PC and Samsung Tablet, I dont use memory map software. In Ozi the place name issue is fairly easy to overcome on the PC using the provided placename database. All the places can be superimposed on the current map, useful for planning where the place is not drawn on the actual map.

Ozi for Android name search does not seem to be developed enough yet for a useful planning tool when on the move though (Ozi issue not EOTopo). As far as I can work out you can only select an already known place (by typing in the name) and the cursor centers itself on that place, but does not leave an indication of the place when the cursor is moved away.

Cheers
Alan

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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Saturday, Dec 28, 2013 at 20:45

Saturday, Dec 28, 2013 at 20:45
Thanks Alan. That all sounds logical. Since MM is free I should expect some shortcomings compared to a bought one. I have noticed a couple of times when I have done a name search in MM on OETopo the map centres itself on where the name should be.

MM on my Galaxy Ace Plus has been a good way of getting the feel of moving map navigation but now I have the tablet it is probably time to look for something more serious. Ozi might ultimately be the answer.

I am looking forward to future versions of EOTopo. David has done a good job with the online version to date. I actually use it for planning too but I find Wikicamps has more information on camp sites.

There is a big contribution that EO users can make by uploading material to Places. I am surprised at the places where no one has even bothered to post a picture or comment, but I guess most EO users are seeking information rather than providing it.

Cheers, Kevin
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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 at 18:36

Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 at 18:36
Alan, since the correction, does this now show all the lakes, river beds etc?

Is this the best CSR system for walking and finding likely water areas?
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Follow Up By: equinox - Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 at 21:14

Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 at 21:14
Hi Gaynor,

The correction is only on the online version, the offline version has not been updated yet.

The creeks and lakes are much better now.
Here's a shot of Nat Map superimposed on EO topo (not exactly though, I wanted to show differences plus I'm in a rush as have a date).

Looks like there's still a bug, note the direction arrow of creek southwest of Mount Stewart and at top right.

Cheers
Alan


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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 at 23:19

Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 at 23:19
Good luck!

For when you have spare moment..

Are you suggesting the EO Top system shows the flow at those two arrows as being upstream?

I do see what might be an arrow in opposite direction at bottom, and perhaps similar at the top right arrow.

I am not brilliant at map reading but will improve remarkably over the next year!
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 at 23:18

Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 at 23:18
Hi Gaynor - thats right, water doesn't flow uphill :-)

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Follow Up By: Gaynor - Friday, Jan 17, 2014 at 03:51

Friday, Jan 17, 2014 at 03:51
You ain't worked on a wooden boat then! Thanks for that important clarification.

:-)
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