1500 road offences will be reformed under new proposals.

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 19, 2004 at 23:09
ThreadID: 10666 Views:1871 Replies:14 FollowUps:21
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NOT JUST BULLBARS!

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1260&storyid=920217

You can run but you can't hide dirty plates
February 19, 2004

MORE than 105,000 drivers have escaped fines by obscuring their number plates.

A Freedom of Information request, obtained by The Daily Telegraph found motorists are using devices like reflective tape and dirt to blacken the rear number plate, making it impossible to be captured on a speed or red light camera.

More than 11,000 number plates were obscured last year, forcing a new crackdown on speeding and dangerous driving by the NSW Government.

The Daily Telegraph can reveal 1500 road offences will be reformed under new proposals.

The driver's licence demerit system has also been completely reviewed, with motorists to
lose points for the first time for obscuring number plates, stopping near pedestrian crossings
and hindering emergency vehicles under the proposals.

Most fines will rise about $10 but the State Government claimed last night the reforms will be
"revenue neutral".

Under the reforms, the penalty for obscuring number plates will jump from $76 to $300 and the loss of three demerit points. Motorists will lose nine points and be fined $1175 for having radar and speed camera detectors.

Speeding through road work sites will cost up to eight points and $1500.

Roads Minister Carl Scully said the review held last year involving the RTA, NRMA, police and the Pedestrian Council would lead to a more consistent fine and demerit structure. Key reforms include:

DEMERIT points on parking offences. Stopping near pedestrian and school crossings will attract a $225 fine and the loss of three points;

THE loss of eight demerit points and $1500 for speeding above 45km/h in work sites and construction zones;

THE fine for failing to obey police directions jumps from $49 to $225;

THE fine for driving too close to a car in front rises to $300; and

THE loss of three points and $225 for having illegal bullbars

Most fines for car drivers could increase by about $10, while truck drivers face a maximum $2350 fine and the loss of six points for speeding.

"Yes there are increases proposed . . . [but] there are also decreases proposed," Mr Scully said.

"If I hear the proposed fines are exorbitant I will consider that.

"The demerit point system is a coherent, effective and good reminder of the importance of complying with the traffic laws and the consequences of breaching them."

Mr Scully said 75 per cent of NSW motorists had not lost any demerit points in the past three years.

The reforms are up for public review until March 19.
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Reply By: Nomad - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 00:08

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 00:08
Yeh Truckster, they're almost worse than Vic with their no tolerance in defiance of Australian Design Standards.

Honestly mate, I've sort of decided I'll stay in Qld. At least up here you get some tolerance and they are nothing like that NSW mob. I mean, the coppers down there don't even know the road rules themselves. Read on another forum where a courier driver got booked for not wearing his seat belt. After protestations from the driver, the copper said "I Think" the speed limit is 8kph for courier drivers. The driver was convinced it was 25kph. Apparently he didn't fight it, although I don't know why. But fancy a cop booking you and saying "I Think"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mate, it doesn't really matter which state you go to. They are basically all the same. Gotta make dollars!!!!!!!!!!! Pay for all their luxuries and perks. Nothing to do with safety. Why would you fine a bloke over a $1000 and take a heap of points off him for having a radar detector(in NSW). There is nothing dangerous about having a radar detector. It's all about them stopping you from avoiding a fine.

Yeah well, that's worth another beer. Too hot to sleep up here!!!!!!!

See ya in the bush. Treadlightly!
Nomad
AnswerID: 47407

Reply By: lazylcd - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 01:57

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 01:57
i can definately see the reasons for some changes to road rules, but personally i see no problem with travelling at the normal posted speed through a roadwork site if its 2 am and theres no one working, and i understand the need to slow down when the guys and girls are working on the roads, just my 2 cents worth..
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Follow Up By: Rojac - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 03:23

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 03:23
I was under the impression that they can only fine you when there are workers on site not when the site is vacant.

Was told by the copper on the camera at the site.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 10:05

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 10:05
I had an officer of vics finest once explain to me that even if there are no signs, if there is gravel ( topcoat screenings ) on the road surface, then it is automatically a roadwork zone and has a limit of 80. Hmm If there is a visible speed sign then you have to comply, workers or not, BTW amazing how a camera has the ability to catch more people than the officer writing his own tickets on site, no they are not revenue raising, not one little bit ..Just killin time till easter...............go and play in the dirt, instead of workin in it......
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Follow Up By: Rojac - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 12:05

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 12:05
limit of 80, here the limit for roadworks is 25.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 21:32

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 21:32
There is roadwork at the end of my street, the cops sit there, and have dozens a day and night, 24 hours a day....

And when the 40kph sign comes out during the day, he sits behind the tractor and waits....

So yes you can get done when there is no road workers there...
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Follow Up By: Dave from Fraser Coast 4WD Club - Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 07:09

Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 07:09
I got done in FINISHED roadworks just north of gympie on a sunday morning (early) a couple of years ago.

The only work left to be done on the site was to take down the 60 signs (it was on the highway), and the only people around were me an the copper.

(I'm just glad that I had slowed a bit (75))
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Reply By: Russell [Pajero] - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 09:40

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 09:40
To normal people these traffic laws and infrigment fines can be a bloody unfair in some circumstances YET!!

There are an awful lot of D!!! Heads out there on the road forcing the authorities to change the laws to deal with this minority group.

I know of one such moron who has lost his licence several times and incurred fines to the tune of $9000 and I have driven with him and we banned him from driving any of our vehicles. It was of course all the pigs fault he got into so much trouble.

The other winge I have is the loons, hoons and morons who treat our street as a race track and drag strip doing burnouts etc. 90% of the street contains aged retirees and a few young ones like me. There is justice in this world me thinks, when one of these burnout kings did a burnout (as usual) going around the corner and lost control. (To the extent thast so much rubber smoke you cant see the intersection after they've gone). No harm to anybody or property but did an awfully good jop of dismantling their lh front wheel and steering mechanism. I report this abandoned wreck to the BIB cause you could still see the tyre marks, but they wern't interested.

I thought I love to trash the little bleep s cars but I am not the sort, anyhow some other bleep got stuck into it and smashed all his glass and dented every panel. Haven't see the car since and the chief burnout king hasn't been back for several month now.

RTA

Russell
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Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 10:09

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 10:09
Mate just go for a walk at night with a set of pliers, slip under the back of their burnout machine and crimp down their fuel line near the tank, she will still run but will have nothing above idle, keeps em guessing and visiting their nuffy mates workshops for months, no fun for them.........Just killin time till easter...............go and play in the dirt, instead of workin in it......
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Follow Up By: Davoe - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 13:39

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 13:39
Local young lad was getting around with the number plate lunitic and was right into street drags recently removed himself from the gene pool on a relitivly straight stretch of road in a 70k zone in town. probably a good ad for those who think they are indistuctable. Lived like a lunitic died like a loser
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Reply By: Baldrick - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 10:33

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 10:33
Sorry to be pedantic (criticising the article writer not you Truckster ;) ), but you don't lose demerit points, you get them. (Otherwise they would be merit points!).
AnswerID: 47425

Follow Up By: tim - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 12:42

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 12:42
Same thing as" is the glass half full or half empty"
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Reply By: D-Jack - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 11:11

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 11:11
I peronsally don't see what all the fuss is about. Are we objecting to the proposed laws because of the innocent law-abiding person who 'accidentally' exceeds the speed limit? (That accidental breaking of the limit could be fatal), Or the 4wder who says "sorry officer, I didn't know my number plate was covered in mud". We must reap the consequences of our actions. The law clearly states you don't speed, you wear a seat belt and you don't obstruct your number plate, and that it has to be clearly visible. What's the big deal with increasing fines? Offences and fines are for a reason, and if we don't want to get one then don't break the law. We can't expect that if we do break the law for police just to let us go, otherwise there would be no point in having the laws in the first place. I for one do not speed, I clean my number plate if needed, I indicate, I slow for roadworks, and I welcome any increase in fines/loss of demerit points (or merit points!)
Just my opinion.D-JAck
AnswerID: 47429

Follow Up By: Patrol22 (Queanbeyan - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 12:30

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 12:30
D-Jack

If only the world was so black and white everything would be much easier to comprehend.
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Reply By: Willem - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 12:18

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 12:18
Truckster.....Whats all of this ???? Singing the OLD WOMAN BLUES again?

Geez you are having a whinge....SLOW DAY...is it?

Most of those laws have been in operation for years. If you comply with the laws then there isn't a problem and you have nothing to fear from the comfort of your desktop.

Chill out and take it easy, Mate..............

Cheers,Willem
Out on the Gibber
AnswerID: 47434

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 21:40

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 21:40
Read the bull bar one Willem, and get back to me..

Who decides if its a safe bullbar?
You or the cop with a quota to fill?
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Follow Up By: Willem - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 22:06

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 22:06
Yes Truckster....I have had my say on that thread.

My point is that your posts which go on and on and on about revenue raising issues and what has happened to a mate of a mate of a mate who was confronted by the constabulary, have no point to them. The post is futile and there is no result to it. You are venting your anger at thin air.

With reference to the other thread here is my reply

The point I am making is that one should keep political, religious and racist views away from this forum. All kinds of bigotry exists in peoples minds and while there is free speech in this country and while we operate as a perceived democracy, I am of the opinion that what has been said about indigenous people within this thread is not necessary on this forum !!!

Now, to change the subject, are you still going to Cameron Corner?

Cheers,

Willem
Little Dip Cons Park S.A.
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Reply By: Member - PatC - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 13:18

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 13:18
As someone once said... If you can't cop the time, don't do the crime. I have never ever got a speeding ticket when I wasn't speeding. And if I get ticket is it my fault for speeding or the BIBs fault for doing their job. Doesn't take much working out does it.Make plans... not excuses.
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Follow Up By: D-Jack - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 15:10

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 15:10
Amen
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 21:38

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 21:38
You didnt read the bit about bullbars did you?

And never had a ticket when you werent speeding?? wow... interesting, you must never have ridden a bike...
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Follow Up By: Member - PatC - Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 09:17

Monday, Feb 23, 2004 at 09:17
Never had a problem with bullbars or know anyone that has. Maybe it's because I live in a rural area and every has them even the boys in blue.

And yes I did ride a bike for a lot of years. Sold my last one a couple of years ago after a major prang on the freeway heading into Brisbane. Was getting older and taking longer to heal but wasn't getting any smarter. ;-)

Make plans... not excuses.
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Reply By: jeff-wa - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 15:55

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 15:55
Ok that's fine, but get the bloody mungrals to take the roadwork signs down when they are finished. How many times have you been driving along in the middle of nowhere to find a roadwork sign that looks like it's been there for 5 years!? Used to see them all the time in the pilbra. There not much better around Perth either, weeks can go by with no workman onsite and signs everywhere!
AnswerID: 47451

Reply By: Member -Bob & Lex (Sydney) - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 18:19

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 18:19
If they inforced driving to close to car in front in Sydney peak hour would last all day. I have never heard of antone being booked for that. As to the rest do the crime pay the fine.Regards Bob
Where to next
AnswerID: 47462

Reply By: bruce.h (WA) - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 21:31

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 21:31
so let me get this straight
i can go home & beat the crap out of my wife & kids or break into somebodys home ,steal from & beat the hell out of them & will walk away with a fine & good behavour bond equal to or less than the above fines
so sorry but i have to say that these fine are way to excessive in comparisen to the justice handed out for truly criminal behavour,
ithink we better start thinking about digging that trench along the boarder & sussection from the rest of australia before this madness heads west
AnswerID: 47473

Follow Up By: Member - Bernie. (Vic) - Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 01:19

Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 01:19
I'm with you Bruce
The real crims get off dirt cheap
truck was 2 months old car ran into the rear 8 months unregistered,
false plates, drivers licence had been cancelled, BIB not interested unless I reported it & I WENT to court. Well I didn't want a brick through my bedroom window, so no charges & no money.
insurance paid & thats why we all get increased premiems.

cheers

Prado TD Auto
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Reply By: ThePublican - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 22:05

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 22:05
Sorry , cannot agree with your sentiments on this Truckster... just had 1 of my employees whinge and bitch to me that his drivers licence was going bye byes AGAIN ,, 105klm in a 40 klm school zone ,on a school day ,in the restricted 'time " frame,, MY 5YR OLDS SCHOOL , his excuse was ' had my radar turned off ',,, my response , "good bye, dont bother to ask for a reference ".........
AnswerID: 47476

Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 22:45

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 22:45
way to go......proud of u !I love it when you talk DIRTY !
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 23:08

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 23:08
Who would complain about that though?? I dont see where I or anyone with an IQ in double figures would complain...

I get morebleepwith people gettin done for 63 in a 60 zone, crap like that... Nothing to do with safety... All about $$..

Like someone else said, HOW can sending me a fine in the mail 4 days later slow me down on the day they took the photo? Thats the day that I/You/Anyone would be an apparent danger..

Not the day Im checking the mailbox.
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Reply By: Nomad - Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 22:54

Friday, Feb 20, 2004 at 22:54
No offence fellas, but geez some of you are sort of thick.

Got no problem with "do the crime, pay the fine". Trouble is defining what is a crime. Like I said earlier in this thread, how can you justify $1000+ fine and loss of heaps of points just because you have a radar detector??????????????

Will someone please tell me what is dangerous about having a radar detector!!!!!!

The only explanation you can offer is that it is a blantent revenue raising decision. They are p**ssed off because you MIGHT avoid one of there radars or cameras.

Tell me, what the hell have cameras got to do with road safety?? You probably don't even know you've been caught until a month or more latter when you get the pic. If the Copper has a hand held and pulls you up on the spot, then you sort of get the message.

Get real boys and girls, please realize what is reality in this world. It's all a game of politics. They ban smoking grass but not ciggies. We know that ciggies can kill but they won't come out and ban them. WHY??? Too much money and influence in the backy lobby.

No wonder that this country is going backwards at a hundred miles an hour! Stupid gullible us believe every idiotic thing pollies and bureaucrats tell us. We believe what the press tells. The press will only print a story if it's sensational. How many happy stories do you see headlined on page one??

Cynical??????????? You bet!!!!!!!

And why can't I express political and/or religious views on this forum?? If the forum owner makes that a rule of membership, then fair enough. My choice to be a member or not. Your right to express your views but don't tell me what I can write about.

Geez, that's worth another beer. LOL
AnswerID: 47481

Follow Up By: goingplatinumcomau - Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 00:56

Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 00:56
I have had it out with a politician at a Dinner one night

My Question
How do you get away with the Crap you do ?

Simple he said

90% are brain dead

7 % know whats going on and

3 % have the serious money

After the brain deads axcepted the GST i just shook my head and thought it is all over .............. Meaning once they got away with that it is open Slather for anything they can come up with.

Any one who does not Realize all the Police are interested in is the Pay offs from the Drug Dealers ................ They could not care less about the tickets.

Simple as that
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Geelong) - Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 09:35

Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 09:35
I find it very difficult to accept those stats because no consideration has been given to one and I would imagaine very large group, the brain washed. BEAM ME UP SCOTTY


Hooroo
Ray
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Follow Up By: ThePublican - Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 12:37

Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 12:37
Nomad,, whats wrong with a radar detector,? why do you need one.? only plausible reason is the " I will drive at an illegal speed, yet will not be caught breaking the law " ,,,, nice excuse,,think NOT.
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Reply By: silvia - Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 01:48

Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 01:48
There have been some excellent case studies and research done on the speeding system we have here in oz and the consensus - it's ineffective in saving lives. If you have a few free hours and feel like some interesting reading check it out online, especially the UK research.

My personal suggestion would be to put the speeding camera signs in FRONT of the camera. That way everyone would slow down over that stretch of road. After all, isn't the concept to make dangerous areas safer? It would be so much more effective to do so than blip the speeders who won't slow down after they get the ticket anyway.

Now make it up to a km in front of the camera and vary it and you would be guaranteed only the really dumb people would keep full speed down that stretch of road. Now double the amount of checks by producing double the signs and either no camera or a dummy one. Double the effective number of areas that drivers will slow down in, with only a tiny amount of investment and a high enough probability of it being a pixiphoto to make any driver take notice.

Of course there would be much less revenue coming in, but speed cameras aren't revenue raisers, are they?! ;)
AnswerID: 47492

Follow Up By: goingplatinumcomau - Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 01:58

Saturday, Feb 21, 2004 at 01:58
Do Not Worry to much as in Germany they have the Cameras in the Guide Posts.

First it was Red Light Cameras

Dipping the toe in the water

Then cameras in cars mainly 4 wd ............. i suppose that is where Nissan could sell there 4 clyinder diesels to the Police Dept.
People will become so aware of Nissans on the side of the road with blown pistons Broken Down

No one would think there was a speed camera in them
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Reply By: Hilly - Tuesday, Feb 24, 2004 at 01:26

Tuesday, Feb 24, 2004 at 01:26
I prefer to think of the item on my dash as more of a "black spot identifier" rather than a Radar Detector because of course the cameras are only sited in black spots. When it makes a noise I know that there must be a hazardous piece of road ahead.

Cheers,

Hilly
AnswerID: 47817

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