3 bikers lost on the Simpson

That was my thought too Boobook - never heard of it - 240k west as the crow flies is getting close to Dalhousie....

Actually - belay that - it would put it closer to the corner of the Colson & French Line - maybe they meant "Colson's Corner" ????

I thought of Poeppels but Colson's sounds closer.

Phil

But there is no such place as Colson's corner. It is called Colson Junction. That is why I thought of Linnies corner which is 20K south.

dunno

At least they are safe, the story has been updated with the 3 people airlifted to Birdsville, Also the location has been deleted.

I won't comment on the event without a good deal more knowledge of the event but it was interesting that the report said a satellite phone was to be dropped to them. This rather shows the value of both a PLB and a Satphone.

Perhaps what would be an ideal product would be a PLB that has the added feature of two-way voice contact with AMSA. This is not beyond possibility considering the state of today's electronic communication devices.

For sure a satellite phone if you don't know where you are is almost as useless as a PLB in an emergency.

But use the two together and you have a very powerful emergency tool.

After reading many posts on this forum and others it seems the fantastic marketing the PLB sellers have done over the years has made people think they are safe and secure and all with out the ongoing higher satellite phone expenses.

I think it should be mandatory for remote travellers to have a PLB and a Satellite phone, this would save a lot of money, time and hardship.

But with the false security that a PLB offers it's a cheap option for non thinkers or those who think it wont happen to them

use an inmarsat sat phone and with it you can send your gps coordinates as an sms.
only needs 1 item to give location and get a message out.
regards
Howard

Give someone a 30 second course on using a PLB and nearly everyone knows how to use a satellite phone........ But ask someone to use the GPS function on an Inmarsat phone and send it in sms and not forgetting they have to know who to send it to is asking a bit much for 95% of the population.

Getting someone to use an Inmarsat phone as above is like trying to teach someone how to use a HF radio.

Howard does every one who travels with you knows how to send a sms with co-ords and who to send it to?

The other problem with this idea is you are relying on someone getting the message and then acting on it correctly....... And hope it all comes together.

My Inmarsat phone is just like the Nokias of the past - surprisingly easy to use.
But I guess the point is that there's no point in having this stuff if you can't use it, and I suppose there's people out there now who can't use a phone if it doesn't have a touch screen!

"For sure a satellite phone if you don't know where you are is almost as useless as a PLB in an emergency."

Why is a PLB "useless" in an emergency. I thought they were designed for this purpose. Seemed to work in the situation the subject of this thread. Lost me. Please elaborate.

Cheers
Greg

A PLB is a one way communications device offering very little data, for the person who activates it; there is no known arrival time for help and for the search party there is no known cause for the PLB to be activated and who and what to send.

Most search and rescue teams going to the unknown will be a reconnaissance team with limited capabilities and in most cases locals, once they ascertain the situation then the correct team can be sent.

There is no way of knowing with out other comms if someone has stomach pains, are broken down or require life threatening medical attention where every minute counts like heart attack, stroke and neck, head or back injuries to name a few.

So if they send a reconnaissance team out first and it is more then they can deal with; all it is doing is lengthening the time for the correct medical help to arrive and maybe leading to death or long term effects.

I know for a fact if I was laying in pain or suffered a life threatening indecent I sure a hell want to know how far away they are and hear the soothing voice of professional even if it over a telephone....... or I could just rely on the PLB not knowing what is going to happen or when.

Just hearing a reassuring voice can be the difference between life and death...... and it can also relieve the stress and anxiety of all involved including others travelling with you. Nobody want to die alone and at least if they are going to pass away it's comforting for them to hear from someone else every thing will be OK..... corny but true. And it can bring closure to the family.

And talking about family....can you imagine the living hell they would of went through not knowing what has happened and 10 hours for a search and rescue team to reach the incident site would seem like days..... part of being considerate to others I guess and not being selfish.

I guess I put the value of my life and the well being of my family and friends higher then some others who don't really care about family and friends suffering.

Hi

Crikey you type fast...anyway...your explanation doesn't make a PLB "useless" in the general sense..just possibly less useful than other options (depending on circumstances). If it is your only option and it worked and then resulted in a positive outcome (despite cost to taxpayers) it would rate as "absolutely fantastic".

Cheers
Greg

Greg why do people pull stuff out of context and twist it around to sound like it was meant to mean something else?

QUOTE "For sure a satellite phone if you don't know where you are is almost as useless as a PLB in an emergency.

But use the two together and you have a very powerful emergency tool."

As I said use both together and it's becomes a very powerful tool.

There is no doubting a PLB by it's self compared to a satellite phone together with a PLB is pretty useless in function and it highlights the need to have both and not just one.

My comments were a response to Allan's respones....

ALLAN's QUOTE " but it was interesting that the report said a satellite phone was to be dropped to them. This rather shows the value of both a PLB and a Satphone.

Perhaps what would be an ideal product would be a PLB that has the added feature of two-way voice contact with AMSA. This is not beyond possibility considering the state of today's electronic communication devices."

Stop arguing you lot. You are getting petty. Also some should really open their minds to alternatives to what they have meticulously chosen for their needs.

It's as bad as which is better canned peaches or canned apricots. Both an emergency beacon and a satellite phone are simple to use. Three presses plus an email address and the location email on ours is sent. An epirb automatically shows where you are and most people would work it out. Maybe even me.

Our group, doing a month long extremely remote and isolated trip, has a satellite phone and everyone at the trip planning last sunday saw it and now are okay to use it. One person has ham radio and two of us are licenced and one is familiar with it's workings. No EPIRB, or PLB but we decided that we don't need any for this trip. Yes! We all have UHF. And all our own navigation aids show the location.Mine is modified to show it on the screen all the time. So we all can see exactly where we are and communicate with home/RFDS/doctros and any local UHF rescue/aid staff.

And we have sand flags coming out our ears.

Each to his own and take a big breath. There isn't any ideal aid as it depends on lots of paramaters.

Have a good day.

Phil

This thread prompted me to get the Sat phone . I like to charge it every now and then , just had look also had Marree Police , Leigh Creek Police and William Creek Pub numbers in the contacts .

I'm sitting in the lounge room and its just beeped service

mmm... depends how many "useless" PLBs they had I suppose, and fuel, water. A 214 km motorcycle ride by yourself in an emergency could result in another emergency.

They had a PLB - they used it. May not have been the perfect scenario but in the circumstances (based on limited info) the best by the looks. They may well have had illegal Barret 125 watt HF radios strapped to their backs for all we know :) but they made the choice to use PLB - all good in my opinion.

Cheers
Greg

Yes - it worked, just playing hind-site coordinator :-)

The spare man could have taken the unused useless PLB with him so if he got into strife he could use it.
Simpson is a pretty busy desert, so could have left messages with others who he passed along the way, perhaps with better comms equipment.

Sounds like the rescuers didn't go out until the morning so could have saved a few hours this way, and perhaps a few taxpayers dollars.

Having a good mate crying in pain though, you could be easily tempted to activate the PLB.

Alan

"..could have saved a few hours this way, and perhaps a few taxpayers dollars."

Isn't that why we go to work. Maybe they should put a button or two on the PLB that indicates scale of issue. "Need more beer" would be a good one.

More hindsight... I suspect riding out to get help may have been Plan B if for some reason the PLB didnt result in a suitable outcome ..or maybe they were going to sit there and lament their situation :)

Cheers
Greg

Yes the PLB did work but it is another example of where having a satphone would of been of more use and resulted in a quicker and cheaper recovery
Everyone would of been a winner

Cheaper - Hypothetically (we dont know full circumstances).
Australian Maritime Safety Authority dudes are getting paid as we speak and I haven't even rang them on my sat phone :) i.e. having a sat phone and not a PLB in your hand wont change some costs. No idea what rescue planes would be deployed in every circumstance or how much they cost..or who pays.

Cheers
Greg

Not all the circumstances, however we know there was air and land support.
The report says the remaining two riders were assisted out by Police, I'm assuming because they were just there - I guess they didn't really need support.

Hey Mr Moderator - stop changing your replies after someone has replied to you - unfair!!!

Apologies Allan - I think in this instance I was tying to edit my last post so as to clarify to whom it was directed at (not you)...plus I get lazy ..should think through what I have say a bit more, therefore removing need to edit. In a hurry.

Sorry again.

Cheers
Greg

From what I can gather from the article they have waited until morning before sending a search and rescue plane out which drops a sat phone to the bike riders so that they can communicate, from there they have established the problem and sent another aircraft ( helicopter assumed) to airlift the injured rider out
If the riders had a satphone their initial communication from the day before would have established the seriousness of the situation and appropriate action could have commenced earlier

Explorer yes their is a standby cost that we are paying whilst the AMSA dudes are sitting in their crib but this cost is elevated substantially when they start deploying aircraft
Cost aside,I suspect the biker would have received treatment quicker if they had a satphone
That said I just returned from the Simpson yesterday and again came across a couple of travellers without even a radio so it is good to see they had a PLB with them

It must be understood that an EPERB is not a mobile phone.....nothing like it.....not even close....it is a beacon

It WILL work.....that is the point.....it sends a very simple signal and does so for a long time and over a very large range....and there are no fees involved.

Remember this device operates is a world wide.....like pretty well most of the surface of the plannet.

Remember this requires many satilites.

It is also monitored 24/7/365 by professional search and rescue authorities worldwide.

There is no other communications service that even comes close to the range, coverage and certainty of an EPERB.

It apparant simplicity is it greatest strength.

It is only with the current generation that EPERBs even carry identification and the ability to transmit GPS data.


Don't expect anything more in the forseable future from an EPERB.

Itv takes considerable smarts to achieve what they do.


cheers

Blimey, I really had not understood that.
Here's me thinking that all you had to do was glue a microphone on the front of the PLB and Bob's your uncle.... a Dick Tracy communicator. LOL
Bantam, do you remember the time lapse between the first house-brick sized mobile phones carried in a suitcase and the Smart Phones of today, just a very few years later?
Or the satphone of just several years ago that you had to set up a dish for?
Don't be too sure about progress. There are smarter cookies out there than you mate.

Alan it is plain you have no understanding of the issues or the scale of the technology involved.

There are limitations and laws of phsyics that simply do not change.

you would not obvioulsy be aware of the massive slabs of bandwidth that are required to support the relativly short range relativly low reliability communication used in our mobile phones....or that the transmission range of the current and comming digital mobile phones is dramatically less than the old analogue system.

tell me....that sat phone.....if it was on line continuoulsy.....how long would the battery last and how much would it cost.
OH..and that satelite phone.....will it work..GUARANTEED in every country in the world and every ocean in between...even 2000Km from the nearerst land.

Tell me of any other communications system regardless of price or technology operating on the same system that is guaranteed to work any time of the day or might in the middle of any of the great oceans.

OH and that mobile phone.....can it sit....unused and uncharged for 5 years strapped to the bulkhed of a boat in all weathers and be GUARANTEED to work.

Everthing about an EPERB is tightly specified by international agreement and is GUARANTEED to work.

My 4G mobile phone isn't even guaranteed to work in my kitchen.

As for the old mobile phones...I still have my Motorola 8723.. it cost me over a grand when it was new...let me tell you it was far more reliable and durable than almost every phone I have owned since....even it in its day could not touch a EPERB for durability and reliability.


The ability to locate and identify a single beacon among all those in use in the world anywhere on the face of the plannet is a pretty clever achievement......

Your comment is a prime example of how much people take technology for granted.

cheers

The only thing I would "Tell you" Bantam is that EPIRB is spelled with an "I" not an "E" as in your "EPERB". Everyone else can get it right!

ha ha, you beat me to it.
i was about to seek clarification on what EPERB stands for.

Be nice to The Bantam...... He was taking about different technology not yet released to the world. It's new technology use citizens would not be able to accept.

The spelling nit pickers that have nothing sensible to contribute can go and drop on their heads.

BTW if you drop on your head ( make sure its good and hard) in a remote location, you will not be able to triger your epeirb or your setelate phone or use you hf redeo.

hceers

The Explorer posted:
Apologies Allan - I think in this instance I was tying to edit my last post so as to clarify to whom it was directed at (not you)...plus I get lazy ..should think through what I have say a bit more, therefore removing need to edit. In a hurry.

Sorry again.
---------------------------------------

Hey Explorer, how do you edit a post?

It drives me crazy on this website that I can't edit. I see you have done it. Can you please explain how to do it.

That fixes one of the biggest issues with this site IMHO.

At last an edit function.

Hello Boobook

Only moderators/admin have the function made available to them, the primary purpose being to assist others who may wish to fix/remove major blunders i.e. if you need something "fixed" let the moderators know and they will do it for you.

Whether or not the edit function should be made available to everyone is not something we should discuss here...though I note other forums have the facility. I do however find its makes me a bit lazy, especially if I am in a hurry. I have a feeling on a forum like this, if used on mass, it could get messy.

Cheers
Greg

Oh come on...this is the only forum I have ever seen that does not give the registered user the ability to edit their own posts at will....frankly rediculous.

people who edit their post to change their meaning to intentionally cause problems don't last long.....particularly when the original text gets quoted by other posters.

cheers

Hmm I see Greg.

I know this is way OT but it bugs the hell out of me that this is the only site that I pay for, and the only one that won't let me fix a typo and leave a post saying what I mean.

I know you can use the preview or even browser based spell checkers but neither are exactly user friendly as you are obviously aware from your edits.

:-(

..please note it was only my opinion that it "could" get messy. Maybe it wouldn't...also nothing to do with me i.e. I cant make it happen.

Cheers
Greg

Understand Greg. Hopefully the gos are watching without too much of a frown.

I mean Gods

You got that right. :-)

And I agree with both. But you forgot one thing, spelling!!!!!

Phil

And #3 Umpteen comments before the armchair 'experts' have even digested the facts of the emergency.