follow up on lost motorcyclists in simpson desert

Submitted: Friday, May 02, 2014 at 12:51
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 13:21

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 13:21
Now that is a useful reference to a really excellent article from a professional who has experience and well understands the issue.

The problem is how to convince the Gungho brigade that it applies to them.


Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 13:52

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 13:52
Agree Alan

I have just posted that link on a couple of other forums in the trip threads as it summarises these situations very well


I can't imagine how the curiosity if nothing else did not get the better of them to look inside the parcel drops?
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 15:16

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 15:16
".....look inside the parcel drops?..."

I wouldn't expect too much of them Alby.
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Reply By: jdpatrol - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 14:26

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 14:26
Look, cane me for saying this, because it’s unfair to ‘tar everyone with the same brush’. But we did a big trip from Adelaide to Cape York last year, and found many motorcyclists especially up in the Cape York area to be full of attitude and stupidity. They’ve never annoyed me before – I love outback motorcycling myself. For instance, I was trying to get out of a wet muddy creek at one point and a motorcyclist arrived and proceeded down the slope I was coming up (only wide enough for one vehicle) – and we were towing! Also, we were coming back on the PDR, and were passing a slow vehicle on the dirt, which is a bit nerve wracking due to dust / vision, and a motorcyclist came from behind and passed the 2 of us at the same time, going like hell, not fully in control – go figure. Reckon a few of them need a kick you know where.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 15:49

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 15:49
I can't see where you get the statement "tar everyone with the same brush" from. We don't and aren't. We certainly tar the dumb ones the same. We met a group of two bikes and a support 4WD ute once, and not a radio between them including the support car. No EPIRBs etc either. That is the type he is talking about. But not opening the parcels puts this trio into the SPECIAL DUMB class.

Neither is the cop categorising all people with problems etc as "dumb". He was just saying that "he was fed up with rescuing travellers who venture into the Simpson Desert ill-prepared and ignorant." That's not all. Just the ones who are not properly prepared, whether they get stuck or not.

This is a problem with not only the Simpson Desert. We are planning a Canning drive and about the first thing to be tabled last weekend at our first real meeting was the satellite phone and the "how too" papers that I keep with it. All could now pick it up, go and point it at the north and either send a simple set GEO location email or make a phone call.

We WILL be prepared, and thus he would then be able to class our group as NOT DUMB.

Phil
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Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 14:43

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 14:43
What can I say, now that it has come from someone with a little bit of credibility maybe some on this site may change their responses on the cost and inconvenience of a reconnaissance flight and recovery mission that could of been avoided that should of not happened.

When will people learn.

Sooner they introduce a stupidity law the better.

Sorry I have no sympathy for them and feel sorry for all involved including thier family and friends.

AnswerID: 531669

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 16:03

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 16:03
There you go, Abbott could introduce a stupidity tax, imagine the revenue we could raise with that
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FollowupID: 814718

Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 08:32

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 08:32
'There you go, Abbott could introduce a stupidity tax, imagine the revenue we could raise with that'

Problems solvered !! :D
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Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 16:13

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 16:13
G'day all

As someone who does 4wd and motorcycle tours across the Simpson, I can say with experience that one of the problems a lot of riders have and they don't realise it - is the lack of "rider" !

How many times have I heard "I've ridden bikes for years" - "I used to race motocross" - "I've ridden every track in the High Country" and when I ride behind them for only 10 minutes I can tell that some of them will struggle with the sand.

Those that ride the desert unsupported quite often have the wrong bike for the trip - watching Charlie Boorman and Ewen McGregor might be good viewing but taking large heavy bikes with semi off road tyres is asking for trouble. Riding the desert also requires a certain amount of fitness - which some riders don't have and when they get tired that's when the accidents start to happen.

For those that are fit, have the and the appropriate bike the Simpson is an absolute walk in the park - I have ridden it numerous times.

I would also like to say that not ALL motorcyclist are idiots and do the wrong thing - just as I have come across many four wheel drivers that have absolutely no idea and spoil it for others !

And I'm not trying to start a 4wd versus motorcycle - just saying.


Happy and safe travelling


Gazz

AnswerID: 531679

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 16:22

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 16:22
I don't take any of this discussion as being a slur on bike riders. It is all about individuals and their preparation (or lack of) regardless of their mode of transport
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 18:01

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 18:01
For good or bad, people just don't notice sensible bike riders......but everybody notices the idiots.

So many draw the comclusion that all bike riders are idiots.

A reasonable observation....but probably not an accurate one.

cheers
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FollowupID: 814730

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 18:22

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 18:22
Just noticed - should have read lack of "rider ability"

Alby - wasn't suggesting at all you were slurring bike riders - I just posted my thoughts and experiences.

But I do like your idea of the "stupidity tax" - Abbott and Co could wipe out the country's deficit within 12 months and could reduce the retirement age to 55 lol

Cheers


Gazz
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FollowupID: 814732

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 20:19

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 20:19
Have to agree, i'm a long term road and dirt rider (current GSXR1000 and KTM 690 Enduro R) but for some strange reason i hate sand, especially if there is a lot of it..... A little I'm ok but any more i'll spend a lot of the time on the ground.

Dirt, rock, mud and bitumen no problems.

Have some friends who are really good at sand and they have tried to teach me but no luck.

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FollowupID: 814742

Follow Up By: Crusier 91 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 07:41

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 07:41
I have to admit coming from NSW making the move to SA I hated riding on sand at the start, but there is nothing but lots of sand no matter where you go in SA.
I got to the point where riding on sand became great, more forgiving once your accustomed and fitness levels saw a huge upward trend.

A tip for riding on sand..........................the right tyres.
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FollowupID: 814777

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 08:11

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 08:11
G'day Olcoolone and Cruiser 91

I spent the majority of my life living in SA so sand riding was just the norm for me but for quite a few years I went riding in the Victorian High Country and the NSW mountains with friends that lived there and I struggled at first to cope with the steep slippery and often rocky hills ! Hills - not many of them in SA. Keeping up with my interstate friends in the mountains was difficult but eventually I wasn't lagging behind ( too much ) but when they came over to ride in the SA sand they looked like a giraffe running on ice. It's just what you get used to.

When they asked me how to train for the Simpson Desert crossing I gave them the following tip - get fully kitted up with boots, jacket, helmut, gloves, back pack etc, climb onto the roof of your house and jump into the kids sand pit a few times - then you are ready for the desert lol.

Olcoolone - if I may give you a tip for sand riding ? Riding dirt bikes requires the right mental attitude - if you don't like mud you will fall off in every mud hole - if you don't like rocks you will hit every one - if you don't like sand you will wobble and let the sand take you where it wants not where you want ! Be mentally positive and keep telling youself this is easy and I want more of it - once you let the sand win you are going to lose ! Also motocross tyres are the go with low pressures especially on the front.

Cheers guys

All the best

Gazz
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FollowupID: 814782

Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 08:35

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 08:35
'A tip for riding on sand..........................the right tyres.'

I've always wondered about this with bikes, same as 4Bs, road type tyres best and at reduced pressures ?

Or the best big knobbled treads for the shovel effect you see on sand buggys ??
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FollowupID: 814784

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 09:20

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 09:20
I think you have got the giraffe running on ice description right, I might have to spend a bit more time playing in the sand and yes be a bit more mentally positive...... I'm not going to fall off...... I'm not going to fall off...... I think I can...... I think I can.

Does a steering dampener help in sand?
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FollowupID: 814788

Follow Up By: Crusier 91 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 10:19

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 10:19
Ive tried a few different tyres in the sand Dunlops, Motoz, I found Perreli scorpion's work best, cuts through rather than diging down.

Damper's help but well tuned suspension will also give you an edge.

To see how the pro's go on sand and bull dust, check the "SA's Finke race" out on youtube.
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FollowupID: 814802

Follow Up By: SDG - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 21:40

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 21:40
Instead of a bike, I would not mind having one of these for desert travel.

http://blog.petflow.com/cnn-report-do-not-let-your-husband-see-this/


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Reply By: wizzer73 - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 16:19

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 16:19
Wow, sounds to me like that policeman could do with a new posting. What a grump. He has personally done 20 rescues in 8 years. Whats that, a little over 2 a year, big deal. So he cancelled the rest of their ride because they had no phone or radio, is that mandatory is it? How on earth did people survive in the old times?

Would love to hear the other side of the story before judgement.

wizzer
AnswerID: 531680

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 20:34

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 20:34
I really think you should have a good think about your post.

I have met this guy and I can assure you that he is actually a really nice genuine guy. Like all of us who have to deal with others, we get a bit peeved when you tell someone something, or make it well known about the requirements, and yet people ignore you and get themselves into trouble.

Mate have you ever had to deal with someone that has either died or is in serious medical trouble? Imagine being so remote and it's just you & a nurse.

No, he is within his right to express his concern for the stupidity of the minority, especially as it is he that has to put his life at risk to go out to the idiot that put themself there in the first place.

I take my hat off to him for doing the job he does

cheers
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FollowupID: 814744

Follow Up By: wizzer73 - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 22:59

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 22:59
Found this - link

All the coppers I know are good blokes too. I don't doubt he is a good bloke but sometimes 8 years in one place doing the same job could get you a little jaded. That's the way the article came across to me.

wizzer
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FollowupID: 814768

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 00:06

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 00:06
So they're very experienced riders who got it wrong and Neale had to go out and save them after travelling throughout the night and reaching them at 7am.

By their own admission they got it wrong and will take better steps as they thought "we were under the impression it was a pretty easy route"

That's why he gets annoyed mate, people taking a Desert crossing lightly - and these are only the ones that he goes out to, Dave Cox from Mt Dare has had his fair share too.

The message folks is "Be Prepared" do your homework and more than 3 months if you've never been out there before, heck we're doing a trip to Kimberley & SDC and we've spent a year on & off so we know what to expect and have a HF Radio, Sat Phone & Epirb as well as loads of water.

Funny enough we have been asked to do an escort for a double crossing of the Simpson in July for a bloke on a motorbike. I have the above, plus 2 of us are Senior First Aiders with a stocked kit and the vehicle can reach over 2000kms with the fuel on board.

wizzer73, let me put it this way with no offence meant, you, your wife or one of your kids has a bad accident on the Birdsville Track, no problems, you head into Birdsville but, the Nurse isn't there, nor are the Police because they have had to go rescue someone and your situation is now deteriorating - how do you feel now?

To me when people go out and do this it is pure selfishness and / or stupidity, sure accidents can, do and will always happen but a lack of preparedness is no excuse.

As I said, Neale is a top bloke and I have no doubt that when he sees this sort of behaviour it frustrates him, geez I know when I read or see what some people do it frustrates me, but to suggest that he is not fit to carry on there is a bit rich.

cheers
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FollowupID: 814772

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 09:43

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 09:43
QUOTE" "We're all very experienced riders, all with 30 years experience, and we spent about three months preparing things," he said.

"We would have loved to have had a satellite phone, but we were under the impression it was a pretty easy route."

However, Mr Chapman said he would organise a support crew, satellite phone and would carry less cargo on his bike if he was to attempt the ride again."


I think they are experienced in something else and not long distance remote travel or adventure riding.

Only 3 months preparing and they were under the impression it was pretty easy and no sat phone was needed......... WHAT THE!

It just shows their lack of understanding of the area, forward plaining and lack of understanding of risk assessments.

And as for being overloaded........ yes they are experienced, again at what. Travelling light is the number one key to adventure riding.

People have to understand when your out there the local mechanic, spare parts shop, deli, hotel, resort, doctor or hospital is not just around the corner.

Love to know what the actually carried and what preparations they did.

And it only goes to prove why a satellite phone is so important, what would of happened if they needed emergency medical advice due to the accident or his injuries were life threatening?

Wonder how many bandaids and Panadols they had in their first aid kit?

And as for the Policeman Neale's comments......... wonder how may tourists he stops and give advice to or turns them away before it becomes a rescue........ maybe he is sick and tired of banging his head against a brick wall with people who think they know better.

Too many think it will never happen to me and if it does someone else will come along and help out.
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FollowupID: 814791

Follow Up By: wizzer73 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 11:09

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 11:09
No offence taken.

If they did take a sat phone, and rang 000 for help, wouldn't the same people have gone out to help?

wizzer
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FollowupID: 814804

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 11:24

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 11:24
Wizzer the difference would have been
- they would not have had to send out the air drop plane TWICE @ 50K a go
- the policeman and town nurse would not have had to be out of action for others in need for two days whilst they drove out and back to the situation or the helicopter for airlift may not have been needed who knows
- from the riders point of view they would of been attended to much quicker, I imagine they would be long hrs waiting for assistance when in need of medical attention
- if they had a satphone they could of been given advice immediate first aid assistance etc
- the authorities would have known from the start what the seriousness and complexities of the situation at hand
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FollowupID: 814806

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:30

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:30
Thats my point also Wizzer - I'd love to here the other side as I smell much spin.

A package has been dropped that for some unknown reason , isn't obvious that it should be opened ?

I have seen plenty of flares , and flares operated that are just for marking and its a reasonable assumption they made - unless of course they somehow indicate they should be opened and not just in fine print.

Do They ?

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:49

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:49
Robin,
please read this

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/stranded-simpson-motorbike-rider-denies-being-illprepared-20140502-37mvs.html

then tell me he deserves our sympathies and Neale got it so terribly wrong, the guy is just misunderstood.

No the guy got it wrong and Neale is trying to educate others - surely that can't be a bad thing

confused as to peoples logic

cheers
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FollowupID: 814826

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:09

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:09
I think your followup crossed with mine under Darians reply below Cookie.

May not have answered you - if not ask and I will.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:26

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:26
All have 20/20 vision in hindsight eh , like saying 3 months prep is not enough /wtf. .. Sat phone quicker response ? Lot of good a sat phone if your the one that fell off the bike breaking the phone /aerial …. or carrying to much / to little equipment / spares …. how about getting the story from the actual bike riders first before condemning them for using equipment at hand that saved a situation that could have had. a very different outcome.
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:32

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:32
Not 20/20 at all mate

Sat phone would be quicker - explain how it is not. Have you even seen a modern Sat phone?

Read the thread you will find the interview with him and then state that he was right.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:08

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:08
cookie 1 , I /we have the latest and greatest sat phone in our new beaut 4x4 Ambulance ,, drop it ,, break the aerial and you have got what ?? Absolutely nothing but back to the 2xUHF ? Personal Mobiles ??
Not much use out our way unless your within 30 km of town … Personal EPIRB drop it / drown it and you still get a response , yes its not an easy or the cheapest solution BUT if you or your's life is at certain risk a it remains what should be a compulsory option if going remote …… Work out the cost of a recent search for a German tourist who's plan was to walk cross country from Windorah to Boulia , instead of a 7/10 day search ????? What "price" a life ??
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:20

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:20
Alloy CT the simple solution is to carry both an Epirb and a satphone or HF radio
You say "what price a life" I say enough for me to buy both.
It is very simple and cannot understand the resistance to what seems like common sense to me
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:21

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:21
Well I am gobsmacked as it appears that you yourself are in the emergency services and feel this is a good use of your time.

Mate drop anything and it can break, it is electronics and it runs on a battery things can & do go wrong - I get that.

What I don't get is carrying an Epirb as your only form of communication, sure if they had hired a Sat Phone from Birdsville or Mt Dare and it broke then absolutely no argument from me, they, in my humble opinion, have done everything they can do so far as comms go.

Now on to the support vehicle in the event one of the bikes broke down, shredded a tyre or god forbid, someone falls off their bike and gets hurt, simple, get them into the vehicle and transport them after calling on the HF Radio and seeking RFDS Doctor support such as administering pain relief.

Personally I highly value the services that are available to us outback travellers and do not ever want to take them for granted.

cheers
1
FollowupID: 814843

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:30

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:30
What about if the phone is struck by lightning? Or the dog chews it up? Or an elephant comes along and sits on it? Or your wife is using it to arrange a hair appointment? Or...............
C'mon, how many excuses can you make to make it futile?
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:47

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:47
cookie 1 , not everyone has the ' need ' for all the coms that you seem to think are a requirement , not everyone 'needs' to carry or for that matter are qualified to administer 'pain relief' after calling the RFDS [ that is do you KNOW what is in the RFDS medical kit / station box and is it still in date , not everyone 'needs' a support vehicle for crossing the Simpson … what is 'needed' is a bit more common sense and less concern for the cost of a SUCESSFULL rescue that could have ended much differently .. 3 lives , 1 injured enough to require the setting off of an EPIRB … cost ?? minimal , compared to another search currently under way that has NO chance of finding a survivor/s that had ALL the latest and greatest coms and tracking…...
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 18:04

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 18:04
You got the ' a bit more common sense' part right

Let's say nobody was injured but one of the bikes suffered a mechanical failure. What is one meant to do in that scenario? Say you have sufficient food and water for 3 more days, do you wait minutes,hours or days before you activate you Epirb or do you wait hoping someone else comes along with a communication device to arrange a recovery vehicle for the disabled bike or do you????


What would be the common sense solution with dealing with such a scenario when doing your trip planning?
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FollowupID: 814851

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 18:24

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 18:24
"Alloy c/t posted:
cookie 1 , not everyone has the ' need ' for all the coms that you seem to think are a requirement , not everyone 'needs' to carry or for that matter are qualified to administer 'pain relief' after calling the RFDS [ that is do you KNOW what is in the RFDS medical kit / station box and is it still in date , not everyone 'needs' a support vehicle for crossing the Simpson … what is 'needed' is a bit more common sense and less concern for the cost of a SUCESSFULL rescue that could have ended much differently .. 3 lives , 1 injured enough to require the setting off of an EPIRB … cost ?? minimal , compared to another search currently under way that has NO chance of finding a survivor/s that had ALL the latest and greatest coms and tracking…..."

So they didn't need to carry comms - you have got to be kidding me mate - are you serious you are an ambo and you are tacitly approving people to not have decent comms.

I do not have an RFDS kit, I have my own kit that is personalised to suit us, Pain Relief - we have Panadeine, Panadol, Panafen, Advil and Disprin - general over the counter stuff.

They didn't need a support vehicle - read the guys response, we are supporting a single motorbike going across as that is the only way the guy would do it - he too is a professional like you but takes life more serious obviously.

Successful, sending out planes, helicopters, Police Ambulance and Nurses because the guys couldn't be bothered to hire a Sat Phone at their expense, yes I guess it keeps you in a job until the emergency services budget runs over and they start letting staff go.

I guess you are making a reference MH370 in your rather cryptic answer, and what is the response, "this should not be happening in this day and age so are now looking at mandatory tracking of all aircraft".

I am still lost as to why you think that this is a satisfactory outcome and that they have behaved exemplary and Neale is a villain.

I reckon all the nay sayers against Neale should go to Birdsville and personally tell him to pull his head in - let me know so that I can be there.

cheers
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FollowupID: 814855

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 18:33

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 18:33
AlbyNSW … 1 of the riders came off the bike … suspected SPINAL injuries ….. common sense prevailed ….. nothing more to say really … IF YOU were in the same predicament what would YOU do ….. hindsight is a wonderful thing ……. what cost a life ? Yes there will ALLWAYS be the 'richard cranium' [ in our of course expert eyes] who was foolish / not prepared [to our high and mighty expectations] … be sad and sorry state of affairs if no one ever pushed the boundaries , the unexpected is just that , nothing more or less...
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FollowupID: 814858

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 18:53

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 18:53
cookie 1 , you really don't get it do you , who is to say that you must have a Sat phone , who is to say that you "must " have a backup vehicle ,,, Neale is not a villain , he does his job [and a lot more besides] BUT it is the ARM CHAIR experts on this forum who take a SUCCESSFULL outcome to a new level of " MUST HAVE " that in 99.9% of the are not required ,,, spare me ,,, how the ,,,,, did we ever survive without … seat belts .. mobile phones … 12v fridges …. ETC ..ETC ….. end of story …. "
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FollowupID: 814862

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 19:04

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 19:04
Alloy what I would have done is ring 000 on my satphone to advise of the situation and seek instruction on our best course of action and advice on how to best render first aid to my injured companion. If for whatever reason ( like an elephant just sat on my phone and rendered it inoperative) my satphone did not work , I would then activate my Epirb as the next best thing and yes I expect we would also get dealt with
BUT as has been demonstrated with these bike riders, help ends up being another 24hrs away by the time 2 Dorniers are deployed followed by a police vehicle and eventually a helicopter once the authorities finally find out what the problem is because who knows, they may have just activated their Epirb because one of the bikes had broken down and they were getting lonely out in the desert.
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FollowupID: 814866

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 19:34

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 19:34
Alloy I have responded to your scenario could you please advise what a reasonable course of action would be for the scenario I posted above where nobody has been injured if you don't have any communication devises except a beacon like you are endorsing ?
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FollowupID: 814869

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 19:47

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 19:47
No Alloy C/t it is you that doesn't get it, you put up your expert - I am an Ambo but you just are not thinking with common sense.

Mate you don't need a Defibrillator, never had them in the 40's, shit mate, we don't need ambulances we can just use cars, hell while we are at it why bother with anti biotics as that is modern day stuff. Seriously, technology has come a long way and if it makes saving your life easier then more fool you if you choose not to use it, if it is not needed or recommended, apart from what apprently I say, then why do both Mt Dare or Birdsville bother having them available for hire.

I have never said you Must have a back up vehicle - you are choosing my words, I believe that if you are a responsible person as is the person we are assisting, then you would have a fail safe but hell mate you take your bike across I really don't care and hope that your one and only Epirb does deploy in the event of your dumb ass self concieted planning.

Mate, I am no arm chair expert, I have actually gone out there and I know how desolate these places are. But because you are the professional, I guess I have to accept your view, and your willingness to spend our money, on rescuing all & sundry that don't give 2 hoots as to their own safety.

So now seat belts don't save lives - you must be a very special kind of stupid.

I wait for the day you are on here bemoaning the loss of your job due to a budget blowout due to blown out budgets you will get zero zip sympathy from me pal.

god save us all
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Reply By: equinox - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 16:22

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 16:22
"The Victorian men............."

Says it all really lol.....

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.
"Outback Yonder"


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AnswerID: 531681

Follow Up By: KevinE - Friday, May 02, 2014 at 19:24

Friday, May 02, 2014 at 19:24
Ain't that the truth lol!

When you're out on any of the iconic outback drives & slow down for oncoming traffic, the ones that plow straight through throwing rocks at you at 100kmh all seem to have white number plates with blue writing on them.

Just sayin' lol! ;)
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FollowupID: 814735

Follow Up By: Bigfish - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 07:19

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 07:19
Feel for you....we have the same problem with qld plated idiots..
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FollowupID: 814775

Follow Up By: Slow one - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 07:44

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 07:44
Funny, when the Victorian plated idiots get to Queensland, we have the same problem.

Must be a bigot problem.
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FollowupID: 814778

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 09:47

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 09:47
You have to remember in Victoria; towns are no more then 30 kilometres apart and most have more then 5 pubs OPPSss should be latte stops.... says something!
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FollowupID: 814793

Reply By: Barbera72 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 08:57

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 08:57
Personally, if I was in charge of performing a rescue, I would do the job the best I could, without then complaining on the media about the rescued stupidity. Regardless of the causes of the accident. As a mountaineer I came across poorly prepared people in dangerous places in need of urgent rescue. One day may happen to me and someone else may object about the way I prepared for the climb, or the gear I choose to carry.
I'm of the opinion that the crossing of the Simpson is neither easy or difficult. Adventurers are neither under prepared or too prepared compared to a set standard (?).
Also, by looking at numbers (ratio traffic/rescues), looks like accidents in that area are considerably low. Right? I believe the vast majority of Simpson travellers have adequate preparation. If then we need to pay taxes to deploy a search and rescue, so be it.
AnswerID: 531718

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 09:33

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 09:33
I think his media article was excellent method of educating the public and highlighting the dangers of being ill prepared, not a ' hey feel sorry for me having to do this job'
The police use this same method for speeding, drink driving etc as well

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FollowupID: 814790

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 09:44

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 09:44
Here here AlbyNSW

So what is your answer Barbera72, we don't educate those that go out and we raise your taxes as a consequence? Or do we leave it to the Darwin laws of natural selection theory, just let people die a horrible death and let people like Neale go out and have to put them in a body bag, put them in the back of the Police 4wd and cart them back to Birdsville? Have you ever smelt a dead rotting corpse?

As I said before, imagine you're badly injured and make it into Birdsville but the Nurse and the Police are both out rescuing someone that is unprepared because they assumed it was easy, how would you feel?

If this was a once off case then fine but he is seeing it all too often and that is only the ones that are reported by the media, indeed I don't know how many times people have offered advice on here "it's like a highway", "there's always another car around", well there wasn't on this occassion, was there, so best use common sense and think about where you are headed and do more than a few months of "homework".

Good on him for highlighting the dangers of Desert travel

cheers

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FollowupID: 814792

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 10:06

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 10:06
There are a lot of 'experts' at doing a cop's job...........but they are not cop's, are they?
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 10:14

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 10:14
I think he has done an excellent job of raising awareness and education those who think they don't need education.

I't idiots who have never done it before and they think it's easy are the ones who are the problems....... after doing it a far few times including the Northern Simpson I don't find it hard or difficult and mind set plays a big part..... it is demanding at times.

But we do go 100% prepared with the right knowledge, equipment extra supplies just in case.

Until you spend time out their off the beaten track only then you really understand who remote you are and how little traffic there really is.




Classic example is back in mid 2009 three guys in two Hilux's who got lost on the Madigan Line last September, they took a wrong turn and if it wasn't for two lady's doing a charity walk along the Madigan Line the chances for them surviving would of been ZERO, the had no idea of where they were, little fuel and water and hardly no food.

The sad thing was we stopped at one of Madigans camps nearly 12 months later and read about it in the visitor diary at this camp...... no other vehicles had be through since the girls so if they didn't find them chances are we would of found two Hilux's with tree dead bodies in them.

Yes the desert in remote and dangerous.
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FollowupID: 814800

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 10:19

Follow Up By: Barbera72 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 13:59

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 13:59
This conversation or argument could go on forever, is such a grey area.
Unless we define borders between "dumb tourist" and experienced and seasoned desert recreational travellers. What sort of preparation is sufficient for such trip with the given vehicle, who has priority to be rescued, the guy in Birdsville or that one in the desert? And so on.
After all we all do what we do for recreation and spirit of adventure.
We make choices depending upon what it is we wish to achieve, and our pool of experience and we cop the rewards, criticisms or consequences of those choices. And the Simpson is a crossing everyone does for recreation and adventure.
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FollowupID: 814815

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:13

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:13
rry but I still have to disagree, it is not a grey area in my book

there are numerous signs when you are heading out to the point of Remote Desert travel etc etc

If you are not experienced in this sort of travel and you don't have a Sat Phone or HF then do as much research - that would lead you to either Birdsville or Mt Dare where they offer Sat phones for hire and drop off at the other end.

Nope, you head out there unprepared and cop the wrath of the local copper and the community as it affects them too and if you are made to look and feel the fool then so be it - bet you won't do it again.

cheers.
1
FollowupID: 814819

Follow Up By: Barbera72 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:47

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:47
Yes, you should always prepare well for that kind of travel. No doubt everyone agrees and nowadays on the net you'll find all the kind of infos and gear you need to do the crossing safely and much more...and also the local community of 300 understanding there is always the possibility of a rescue with the cop deployed in the desert since thousand of travellers (experienced or less) happen to go through Birdsville each year. Fact, even if you want to see this just as black and white ;-)
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FollowupID: 814825

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:58

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:58
Agree with all of what you have said there Barbera72

I think everyone understands that things can, do and will always go wrong, but you do need to give yourself a fighting chance and not rely on the "Big Button" that costs thousands of dollars and man hours.

cheers
1
FollowupID: 814829

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 12:37

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 12:37
Simple.

Give Constable Neale a new job in the city and ban Victorians from remote areas....LOL
AnswerID: 531734

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:12

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:12
I agree that its time to transfer the constable Hairy(but only if he endorsed that article) , but leave us Victorians alone - didn't we pioneer the french line .

I'd dearly like to hear the other side of the story as I have seen those sorts of articles before , this clearly has some spin in it .

Reminds a bit of the police hero story on here a few years ago when someone tipped over there tray cruiser and stayed in it thru a sand storm. Eventually it turned out he has helped first by a passing 4wd.

In this case the guys deserve some credit, they actually had an eprib, although every time we have these discussions I insist on an appropriate two way device as the first comms aid with Epirbs somewhere down the list.

How much of this could we blame on the change in Birdsville police policy ?

In the 90's when I first crossed the dessert you were encouraged to stop at the station on way out and leave some details and a coule of questions would be asked - nowdays this is no longer encouraged.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:53

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:53
"In the 90's when I first crossed the dessert you were encouraged to stop at the station on way out and leave some details and a coule of questions would be asked - nowdays this is no longer encouraged."

Because people didn't let them know when they got to their destination and they were going out looking for them only to find they were indeed safe.

We did it at Wiluna when we did the Canning and then when we got to Bililuna, I asked VKS737 if they would kindly advise them that we had made it and were safe , they will still take your details and you can also submit your itinerary to AMSA.

cheers
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FollowupID: 814839

Reply By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:22

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:22
Just in case anyone missed this link posted above by Wizzer.....
Rider denies being ill-prepared.
He's wrong of course - they were ill-prepared. And the police officer's comments were appropriate. More years than not, people die of exposure and/or thirst in Australia's outback....the Simpson is an ideal place if you want to carry on that tradition. PS: Rentals aside, you can buy a new satphone for $500 with a $15/month, no-minimum term plan - split between 3 riders, they'd still have money for beer.
AnswerID: 531747

Follow Up By: Member - wicket - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:37

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:37
Hey Darian

I'd be interested to know where I can buy a new sat phone for $500. cheers
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FollowupID: 814821

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:39

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:39
Wicket I recently bought one from Campersat under the government subsidy scheme and it was about $500.00, the scheme is now finished - end of march.
0
FollowupID: 814822

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:44

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:44
Yep, the guy reckons he was preapred, so he should then be sent the bills for

Aircraft $50,000.00
Ambulance
Nurse
Police Attendance
AMSA Fees

yep if he can't admit he got it wrong then prove him wrong by sending him the bill.

The only good thing to come out of this, is the people reading this and commenting either way, or those sitting on the sides thinking about their "what if" strategy.

cheers
0
FollowupID: 814824

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:57

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 15:57
Thanks Darian I did miss that, but I don't think we have enough info to say that they were ill- prepared.

Its reasonable so far to say they could have been better prepared.

I would have been more forgiving of the reports if they had begun with praise.
Because the bottom line here is that they carried and sucessfully used a saftey device.

Not recognizing this just means that others will be more relucant to use there device if there time ever comes.



P.S.

Does anyone know if they were on the main track across the Simpson ?

I assumed they were but statements like the one below would make me question that or else the person making the statement
hasn't been caught in a Simpson traffic jam recently.

"There might not have been another person on the track for a week or two, so it was certainly starting to look a bit scary," he said.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:29

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:29
I guess the only parallel one could use is if you needed to have security to open a door but hit a "Hold Up" alarm or a "Fire" button as the other options are too hard.

My take on Epirbs is a "last chance" device, that is all of your other methods have failed. Indeed on a boat it is mandatory at a certain range offshore (3nm I believe) to have a VHF Radio fitted, many big boats also use HF Radios as well.

Why would you go into an area that you did minimal research on with 3 overloaded bikes and no support vehicle. Mate you have been around long enough to know that you need to do your research and make sure you have bases covered.

The last statement I think was the sudden realisation of just how desolate the place can be especially if your hurt, if they had a support vehicle then he could have been loaded into it, bike hidden away, and transported back to Birdsville and on the next plane - seems so simple to me. Indeed if the support vehicle had a HF Radio or Sat Phone then it just got a whole lot easier again.

We went to William Creek back in 2000 for the Gymkhana and whilst on a drive a friend complained of a sore left arm and not feeling too well. We went back to William Creek and one of the coppers got RFDS on the HF Radio and they then advised us to go to Coober Pedy Hospital and he was fine.

There are so many options for communications these days without hitting the "Big Button".

cheers
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FollowupID: 814832

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:52

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 16:52
Cookie1 I hear you
I just don't understand some people's resistance to the logic of carrying a Sat phone or HF radio in these scenarios, the only explanation I can think of is the cost
Probably easier to just sent a couple of hundred dollars on an Epirb and hope for the best
I was in the Simpson last week and still seeing people out there who don't even have a UHF
Crazy!
1
FollowupID: 814838

Follow Up By: wizzer73 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:37

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:37
I do think the cost is a factor. Especially if it only gets used once a year. Where can you buy one of these $500 sat phones with no subsidy?

Is 3 months preparation not enough? Should your preparation include worse case scenario? How does my body get home if no life left in it?
Should it be mandatory to carry a sat phone or hf radio on this crossing?

Maybe there should be a minimum requirement of safety gear to carry. If you don't have this gear then expect to pay for rescue? A big sign stating this and on the permit.

If he hadn't of had a crash and they made it, were they just "lucky" because they were so ill prepared.

I dunno, this conversation could go on and on. I just think to be publicly labelled a "dumb tourist" is a bit harsh.

cheers
wizzer
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FollowupID: 814845

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:59

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 17:59
There is quite a bit of information available here and on other forums, you do need to use common sense and sort the good information from the reckless.

The subsidy finished 31st March so they could have got one subsidised providing they met the criterium - yes there were provisos.

3 months if you've been there before I feel is adequate, if I have never been there before then we plan out 12 months in advance noting fuel stops and Homesteads, permit requirements eg WA Permits and some of these require a minimum of 4 weeks.

Yes you should always plan a worst case scenario / strategy, that is why we carry HF, Sat & Epirb, First Aid Kit including Pain Relief and Broad Spectrum Anti-Biotics, dry food store and additional fuel & water capacity. Seriously we could be stuck for 2 weeks and it would not be an issue.

When I did my first crossing I knew I could hire a Sat phone from Dave Cox or from Birdsville and drop it off at the other end, I chose to buy a HF Radio as we planned on doing more & more remote travelling and the information that the operators provide is gold when your out there, such as weather conditions etc.

I think that the whole point of Neale making the statement was to try and get this message home to people that choose to travel outback. They have already started to make things mandatory like Sand Flags - do you really need regulation to make you use common sense and self preservation?

Yep plenty of people drink & drive, speed and they get home, but, if they crashed into you or a member of your family and injured or killed them, would you be praising their luck then? Reckless is what reckless people do and this is what they did and I hope they are bloody embarrassed by their actions.

I don't get why this conversation is just so hard for people to concieve just how dangerous remote travel is.

Dumb traveller - yep reading both the original article and the subsequent response from him, yes, and have no doubt that Neale must have been bloody frustrated and probably tired too when he said it how it is - he is a country cop after all.

cheers
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FollowupID: 814849

Follow Up By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 18:01

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 18:01
Re Wicket's query - Pivotel are offering a Globalstar plan as mentioned, using the Qualcomm GSP1600 phone (and that is full price - the application period for the subsidy scheme is closed - purchases of phones under the scheme must be completed by June 30). Reports here and there (including Exploroz - the Communications article) suggest the days of hopeless performance by Globalstar should be a thing of the past (the old satellites have gone - now all new). I'm guessing that because of the pasting that Globalstar rightfully got via the old satellite network's poor performance, they are offering very keen pricing to get back into the market.
1
FollowupID: 814850

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 21:02

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 21:02
I had to go out for dinner and just got back..... Who's winning? LOL

Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 814878

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Monday, May 05, 2014 at 06:48

Monday, May 05, 2014 at 06:48
I got an Isatphone Pro for $700 from a 4wd/camping show a few years ago. They were encouraging me to lie about things to qualify for a subsidy but I just bought it for that no subsidy. I can't complain about it, used it once to help a fallen bike rider.
1
FollowupID: 815027

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Monday, May 05, 2014 at 06:57

Monday, May 05, 2014 at 06:57
I should add, it's excellent for sending little emails to my wife telling her what inhospitable remote place I'm camped in to put her mind at ease. She thinks I'm nuts and wouldn't be there for quids. :-)
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FollowupID: 815028

Reply By: wizzer73 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 22:38

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 22:38
Found this on advrider forum in a similar discussion to this one. Very funny clip.

video

cheers

wizzer
AnswerID: 531782

Reply By: cookie1 - Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 23:36

Saturday, May 03, 2014 at 23:36
You know it's actually quite ironic,

I have been quite full and frank on my opinions on Outback Travel safety and here I am having planned our trip to the Kimberley via Tanami, Purnululu, Gibb River Road, Kalumburu, Cape Leveque then down to Marble Bar out to Surveyor Generals Corner and still feel anxious about everything.

So I then thought, what goes through others minds when they are planning there trips, do you have anxious feelings and to what degree do you plan your "get of of trouble" strategy?

eg. we carry HF Radio, Sat Phone, Epirb, 273L Diesel, 60L Water, First Aid kit and dry food store for 2 weeks supply, tyrepliers, maxtrax, winch.

I have this other comfort feeling, in thinking that we have done as much as I think we can do to safeguard ourselves.

cheers
AnswerID: 531784

Follow Up By: wizzer73 - Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 10:28

Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 10:28
Yes i get those anxious feelings too. Have i got enough, have I got too much, have I got the right stuff. Try and stick to a couple lists I have. I haven't done many trips, unfortunately don't have the time but sometimes i take my bike other times its in the car. It always amazes me how when I take my bike how little amount of gear I can get away with. When I take the car its basically full of stuff and on the roof!

Did the gunbarrel a few years ago in the car. Took 60L of water. I knew from reading that there is a few wells along there you can get water from but can you trust them to be working? If you are doing it on a bike theres really no way you can carry 60L of water. Have to take a maximum amount and hope that the wells are working if more is required. Its a different anxious feeling.

good luck for your trip

wizzer
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FollowupID: 814896

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 12:14

Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 12:14
I am not the worrying type so can't say I get anxious but with pre trip planning I just cover all the basics and go from there and whatever happens on the road you just have to deal with it to the best of your ability and with whatever you have on hand.
My mechanical and medical abilities by others standards I regard as limited but it is amazing what you can accomplish if you have too.

I have been quite vocal on this and other threads on communication equipment because I have personally been in a number of situations where a sat phone has got out out of a situation, the ability to "phone a friend" in times of need should not be underestimated.
On two occasions we have used a sat phone in the Simpson for mechanical advice on disabled vehicles, one time we set up camp and waited for Barnsey to deliver us parts which we fitted ourselves and on both occasions drove ourselves out of the desert( delivery cost was expensive but still much cheaper than tilt tray costs)
On another occasion we had a medical condition that required RFDS airlift of a child who fell ill.
I have also phoned my mechanic back home on a couple of occasions to seek advice on roadside repairs or how serious a fault may be and his recommendation. We have forward ordered parts for delivery to the next town we are passing through etc etc
In all of these situations I ask myself what would I have done if I didn't have the phone and the outcomes would of been very different and inconvenient as well.
A phone costs a few tanks of outback fuel to buy and $50 for a prepay sim top up before a trip so in perspective a cheap tool to be carrying, much less than a winch which most never use but have no issue justifying its purchase price.
If someone can show be an easier way I am all ears as I like to keep things simple
2
FollowupID: 814911

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 12:28

Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 12:28
Yes Alby, but people don't see a satphone to envy like they can see the winch proudly 'out front'.
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 814912

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Monday, May 05, 2014 at 06:28

Monday, May 05, 2014 at 06:28
The last 2 people I have come across stuck, both with brand new never been used winches on the front....well neither winch actually worked as they had never tested them.
0
FollowupID: 815025

Reply By: disco driver - Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 14:55

Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 14:55
A few blokes were out in the Simpson Desert on motorbikes, one fell off and had suspect spinal injuries.
They set off an epirb and were rescued.

OK they may have been illequipped in the eyes of all the "experts " on here but apart from a bit of expense involved not much else happened.

Then we have all the experts on here telling us mugs what we need to take and even some telling us that although they had every known safety item (epirb, Sat phone, UHF and HF a great big first aid kit and the knowledge on how to use it all) on board they were still anxious about going bush makes me wonder where the spirit of adventure has gone.
Travellers in the 60's, 70's and 80's still travelled around this country without the so called necessities of sat phone, UHF and GPS and still managed to get where they wanted to go with some degree of safety.

They used that most uncommon thing today.........Common Sense.

Disco..
AnswerID: 531823

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 15:40

Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 15:40
Mate really

well given your age and obvious expertise in the beyond that puts you in the pension category, and as you feel that there is so much money around for others to spend on rescuing them, and as you obviously have disposable income to spare a lazy $100,000 + I'll ask my local MP to take it from your pension.

Bit of expense >$100,000 and man hours is more than a little expense.

I'll take your reference as an attack on me so don't get uppity when I get up you!

I make the most of technology as you described above, why because it ensures that I am not going to be a burden on the valuable resources available. The spirit of adventure is still there but it is called risk management and being accountable for your own actions, something that old people like yourself whinge about all the time.

In the 60's, 70's & 80's people still died out there, it just wasn't you were you lucky or just smarter than they were.

Common sense mate dictates that you take as much precaution against utilising expensive resources and mitigate the risk to you or someone else.

Anxious but not stupid, mate if you choose to go out back these days and break down and you choose to live by the means of the 60, 70 & 80 then enjoy the last days on earth.

Oh & if those years were so great why drive a disco why not a Landrover Series 1
0
FollowupID: 814943

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 20:32

Sunday, May 04, 2014 at 20:32
Disco careful not to confuse adventure with foolhardy!

One of the 'experts" you referred to is the very experiencedBirdsville policeman who made these recommendations, any wonder he made his comments about stupid tourists when there are people like yourself displaying such attitudes
Have you ever thought that the reason they did not have these comms in the earlier days was because they were not available but they were equipped to the best of their ability with what was available at the time?
We have the technology available to us at a very reasonable price so why not take advantage of it?

I am far from being an expert, I have used my common sense to establish what are reasonable measures to help keep myself and my family safe when we travel remotely

Cheers
1
FollowupID: 814982

Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Monday, May 05, 2014 at 11:01

Monday, May 05, 2014 at 11:01
Where does this $50k per plane trip come from? Was it an A380 diverted from the Singapore route? I had to charter a plane from William Creek to AS a few years ago, and it only cost a few hundred bucks. It sounds like someone is either loose with the truth or someone is scamming.
0
FollowupID: 815047

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, May 05, 2014 at 11:12

Monday, May 05, 2014 at 11:12
Bob, from the initial press report here. Can't vouch for its accuracy.

"A Dornier aircraft, which costs taxpayers $50,000 with each deployment, was dispatched from Melbourne to locate the trio."

I would guess that such an aircraft is a bit more than your light charter.
Cheers
Allan

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