Scam alert re sale of goods

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 17:45
ThreadID: 108936 Views:3168 Replies:9 FollowUps:24
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Hi guys, I need some help re the scam of buyers withdrawing the money after the car or caravan is taken. There was a thread I previously read about on this subject but I didn't give it much of a thought until today when my son rung me and told me about someone in Perth contacting him ( in Sydney) about buying his car and it sounded a bit dodgy. I told him to hold on till I found out the nitty grittiest from you guys as to how they do it and what to put into place to stop it. Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
BillM
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Reply By: Les PK Ranger - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 17:57

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 17:57
I searched he forum, and found a few threads like this . . .
Scam_or_not_What_do_you_think
Is_this_a_scam
internet_scam

It might be legit.
It's very feasible now to find the right vehicle anywhere, especially with the internet and cheap airfares.

I would still ONLY do such a sale face to face, and cash.
AnswerID: 536800

Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 18:17

Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 20:08

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 20:08
Bill

I think the best way to a avoid it is simply ignore any enquiries that doesn't involve someone turning at your the place where the vehicle is kept, with the cash, or with the intention of going to a bank with you to make the transfer.

Don't waste your time giving them any time...


Cheers!
AnswerID: 536814

Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 18:19

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 18:19
A lot of people including myself have purchased cars over the phone or on the net. When you work overseas for 10 months of the year its very hard to do anything in person. This is also very common in WA because of all the FIFO. I do agree you need to be very carefull.
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Reply By: wizzer73 - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 20:52

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 20:52
Heres a good link with some explanation of varying paypal scams.

paypal scam explanation

wizzer
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Reply By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 21:44

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 21:44
Once money is in your account it is nearly impossible to reverse the transaction, even if the person deposited the funds accidentally and lodge a request to reverse the transaction, the financial institution will remove the funds from your account and place it into a holding account for a period of time just in case there is a dispute.

There is no problems with giving out your account details...... It's only account details and they can not access your account unless you have been silly and provided other personal details or they have be able to find it...... Like on a forum.

Most scams involving bank details require you to pay a fee for the transaction, no scammer will put a large sum into your account to complete a transaction.

We have sold many things including high value vehicles where we have not met the person.

Taking cash as said above is very stupid as organised crime gangs who pray on sellers will in most cases us fake money and once they have your vehicle and the bank have taken the fake cash it's bad luck to you.

Accepting bank cheques is also the same, can be faked and also cancelled very quickly by the scammers.

Money orders are the same as bank cheques.

A transfer into you bank account is the safest by far and is the easiest plus it leaves a paper trace for later.

But always wait for the funds to clear and then transfer it to another account if in doubt before releasing the goods.

Never take their documentation of money movement, many are good at using graphics software and they all have a printer, check your documentation only for movement.

Be cautious and do your home work on the buyer, if in doubt ask the police or your bank for guidance and advice......NOT A FORUM.

Most who get scammed is from their own stupidity and mostly GREED....... Look mate I'll give you $14,000 for the car you have advertised for $10,000 if you can pay the freight cost and money transfer fees up front for me..... It's only $1500....
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 06:52

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 06:52
Well, I'm not so sure (cash) it is stupid given it is the medium of exchange in use in Australia for most of our daily transactions. And without doubt I would be cautious of anyone wanting to hand over a "vast" amount of cash to purchase a car...

However, in the context of the question I am highlighting that unless someone shows what appears to be a genuine interest, and has the means to pay for it then perhaps the enquiry is best ignored.

Hopefully the response isn't "stupid" (for crying out loud!)...

Enjoy the day,
Baz
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 09:12

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 09:12
Baz..... with most scammers your not dealing with kiddies having a bit of fun on school holidays, your dealing with well healed crime gangs who have a world wide interest involved in a range of other illegal activities..

Using fake money has been going on for years and I would say purchasing a car by cash needs "vasts" amount of cash..... we are not talking a few hundred or thousand dollars here.

If we were talking a few hundred or a thousand dollars nobody would purchase a car from interstate once freight has been taken in..... unless it was something very unique, if it was very cheap you would have local buyers fronting up at dawn.

PLUS it would have to ring alarm bells if someone turned up with $10,000 in cash.... why are they taking the risk carrying that much cash, where did they get it from..... why don't they want anyone to know about it.

The bad thing with cash is there is no paper trace and seeing we are all experts (not) at picking fake money we should not be alarmed then.

I don't know if you have had any dealings with these well organised crime gangs but I can assure you they show a "genuine interest".

Why do you think sensible people get caught out including business owners..... sure me being so gullible I'll wire you the $108,965 You need for the life saving operation on your ONLY son who is 5 years old....... Thank you so much sucker, when I get his insurance money through I'll send you $1,234,567,0000 for kindly help me...... SIGNED CORPORAL REGINALD .J. BARTHOMUE - Head of Police.

Again most who get caught is from greed and the scammers you are not dealing with are not work experience guys or idiots.

So whats you advice to see if someone is showing "genuine interest"

BTW cash is not the medium for most of our daily transactions.... go to the local shopping center and see how many customers deal in cash...... for me I'm lucky to carry $20 in my wallet.

We get maybe 1 in 20 customers who pay cash.

Pay with cash and there is no paper trace.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 10:37

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 10:37
Putting aside your usual style of “derision” I still think you’ve missed my point in the context of the original question… so I’ll rephrase, for the benefit of all.

Sell it to the bloke that turns up at the front door, with an acceptable means of paying there and then, no freight, no catches…and hopefully, no problems.

And heaven forbid, if it involves cash, take him to the bank, ask the bank teller are they counterfeit notes and if not ask will the bank accept the money for deposit to your account, if they do, give the keys to the buyer and move on…

If the bank won't accept the deposit, send the buyer packing...and on that note, I'll also move on!

Taken from a 2011 study by the Reserve Bank...




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Follow Up By: uppy - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:51

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:51
my son got the same offer but they where based in Sydney.I told him to walk away from it.they want you bank details .We are in Perth wa.cheers Uppy
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 13:12

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 13:12
Yes as it said in the study that you kindle provided....

"It is used extensively in situations where the average payment value is LOW and where QUICK transaction time is preferred.

And

"Two important factors contribute to this decline are the substitute of card for cash use, PARTICULARLY for LOW VALUE payments and the increased adoption of on line payments"

A lot of places don't accept EFTPOS or Credit Card on transactions below $5-$10 and if I am buying something like milk or a paper I will use cash.... everything else is EFTPOS.

Buying a vehicle in you case may be a low value item but for many it's not.

"Derision" ... an interesting word to use, if you think it's the case beleve what you want, just stating my point of view!
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 13:16

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 13:16
BTW..... someone turns up to buy your car with a large sum of cash at 6pm at night or over the weekend..... you think fantastic what a quick sale...... 1am in the morning 3 guys barge into your house threatening you to hand the cash over...... you agree and now you have no car or money and your place has been ransacked.

And yes it has happened.

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Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 16:06

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 16:06
Olcoolone, 1am in the morning 3 guys barge into your house threatening you to hand the cash over...... you agree and now you have no car or money and your place has been ransacked.
If that happened you would be able to claim it back from victim of crime fund a Max of $50,000.
Had 3 guys do the same to me and got back my money this way. No longer a car rort, now a home invasion.
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 23:31

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 23:31
Not sure which state you are in Andy but where I live the Fund doesnt pay you when you get ripped off.
Its for if you are injured or otherwise traumatised, not financial loss
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 08:46

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 08:46
That's what I said. It is no longer a rip off it's a home invasion. I'm sure you will be traumatised and if it was me I would be injured as well, no one takes my money without a fight.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 13:06

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 13:06
Here in South Australia the victims of crime fund pay out very little in the way of compensation and it is more like a token gesture then a refund.

I think the shock of having it happen to you would be enough to cause life long suffering especially if your elderly...... simple way don't accept sums of cash fro something sold.

Best way is don't let it happen in the first place by enticement.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 13:08

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 13:08
BTW what happens with the car the person sells..... the insurance is void as you have already been paid for it and you can not claim the lost car from victims of crime levy or you house insurance????
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 13:55

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 13:55
What happens to the cash and the car if the world blows up tomorrow?

Just wondering... ;)
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 15:29

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 15:29
Im takin it with me!
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Reply By: bill m - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 16:46

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 16:46
Wow, it really is a nest of worms. Thanks guys for the advice. I can now let my son into the traps and hope he takes heed of the advice.
Cheers
BillM
AnswerID: 536854

Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 17:31

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 17:31
Sure is Bill, maybe safer to DON'T SELL THE CAR under ANY circumstances !!
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 18:09

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 18:09
Bill, despite all the doom and gloom above, a little bit of applied common sense will go a long way.

The scammers change their modus operandi regularly, however there are a number of tell-tales that will ring alarm bells as to whether something is genuine or not.

Some things to look out for in no particular order:

1. if there is some convoluted explanation as to why the buyer can't review the purchase or can't be contacted such as buying for a 3rd party who's on a ship/oil rig/remote mine/another country - run for the hills - it's a scam.

2. if they're unwilling to talk to you on the phone and insist on sms or email to some dodgy hotmail/gmail account - run for the hills

3. if they come up with some dodgy payment method via Western Union or pay-pal screen dumps - run for the hills

4. if they make an offer too good to be true or over pay without viewing the goods - it's a scam

5. basically if there's any dodgy explanation as to why they can't follow normal processes for completing the purchase - run

Basically if they're not willing to contact you in person either face to face or over the phone - be suspicious - the scammers are only looking for sucker bait who will play along - the moment they get any push back or detailed interrogation - they will generally disappear - as it's not worth their while wasting time on unlikely outcomes.

If their email id is bobanddoris@bigpond.com and they're willing to chat over the phone - then they're probably genuine... however in any of these transactions - make sure you've got cash or the money in your account before you release the goods.
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 18:16

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 18:16
forgot to add - another way of double checking - if they contact you via email - run their email address through google. Chances are that they've used it before and a number of consumer watch sites (like Whirlpool etc.) usually have posted warnings - if the email addy turns up in search engines - red flag.
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Reply By: MY D-mAx - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 20:09

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 20:09
I once had a on road camper trailer for sale and still do and had a call from some one who said they were in NZ and would be in OZ in 3 days and said they would like to but sight unseen even gave me bank details alas never heard any more from them
AnswerID: 536867

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 23:33

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 23:33
if you were selling a camper trailer why did they give YOU bank details?
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Follow Up By: MY D-mAx - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 20:58

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 20:58
I have no idea why
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Follow Up By: 749 - Sunday, Aug 03, 2014 at 11:43

Sunday, Aug 03, 2014 at 11:43
Irish scammer
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Reply By: get outmore - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 12:12

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 12:12
I cant think of too many occasions id buy a car sight unseen.
If I did id be asking a hell of alot of questions (scammers arnt intrested in wasting that much time)

All of my cars ive bought and sold have been done the good old fashioned way
person looks at car, takes it for a test drive, has a think about it, maybe has a look at a few other things then accepts to buy either in cash or bank cheque (while ago) which I had to pay to expedite its clearence

these days it would normally be done by direct transfer but ive only just got internet banking so last car i bought last year was done with $14,500 in cash and the car i sold i was given cash for

Mr cash doesnt need 2 forms of ID

as for counterfit, yes it happens but not like that - counterfit money needs to be dribbled/laundered out so no one persons suspected of it
No ones going to hand over a heap of counterfit cash so you can ID them.
Counterfit money is fairly rare in australia and the government takes a rather much dimmer view of it that some scam
AnswerID: 536895

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 13:11

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 13:11
Quality counterfeit money is very hard to detect by the average Joe who doesn't have the skills or equipment to detect it.

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FollowupID: 821157

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 14:09

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 14:09
coolone - honestly 99.999% of monetary fraud is wire transfers - not cash. I'd not be too worried about that. get-out is correct -

"as for counterfit, yes it happens but not like that - counterfit money needs to be dribbled/laundered out so no one persons suspected of it
No ones going to hand over a heap of counterfit cash so you can ID them."
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 17:53

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 17:53
there was a case in Subi recently. In all cases the money was handed over in quick turnover high volume places where lighting wasnt good IE bars

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Reply By: allein m - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 16:02

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 16:02
Caveat emptor Let the buyer beware my old Accounting teacher always said


There are a small percentage of our population who spend all there day thinking of ways to take your money away from you

It is like teaching a kid to cross the road look left and right and left again

in other words look at the offer and think about it if it looks too good to be true that is enough to walk away from it.

Has any one watch that show on cable tv American greed that is a huge wake up show
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 17:56

Thursday, Jul 31, 2014 at 17:56
"There are a small percentage of our population who spend all there day thinking of ways to take your money away from you "

yep touch wood ive been relativly lucky - and being a good judge of character wont neccessarlilly help you
these people used to be known as confidence tricksters for good reason

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