Dump Points For Totally Independant Travellers

On a recent visit to Victoria (I am from Southern Highlands NSW), I needed a black water dump point for our mobile home. I looked on the internet and what a motley list of dump points it was indeed, so much so I doubted the list for it's blaring inadequacy of point inclusion so, as I was in the Geelong area I phoned The City Of Greater Geelong, they didn't know of dump point location so they put me thru' to the Geelong Area Water Commission who informed me there were no publice points in the Geelong area (indeed not for over 100km's within Geelong Area), "that's incredible" I replied. They said I could phone local caravan park and ask them. I did! They had a dump point that was not for public use, I would have to pay my site fees and then would have use of the dump point.

What is going on here!!!

I know and fully understand the argument from Caravan Park Operators that they pay huge amounts (I have read of upto 40k per site) to install facilities that comply with standards set by councils They need to repay and indeed profit from that huge outlay and that travellers should use those facilities and not have free (overnight )facilities provided by councils. I don't entirely disagree on that one.

Something Councils and Tourist Info. bodies need to understand is that if they think all independent travellers will do the right thing and "dump" responsibly they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Some dumps are bound to occur within water catchment areas!!!!!!

So, come on councils, be responsible, provide at least one Public Black Water dump point per town. Protect yours and our environments. It won't send the caravan park operators broke!!!
Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought stupid than to open it and remove all doubt

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Reply By: Member-George (WA) - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 15:29

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 15:29
Hi Ian and Pen, I have your solution. Come to WA. there are 24Hr road side stops established along most major tourist highways. They all have eco toilets and dump points.
This also includes quite a few popular tourist camp areas where there are no toilets but dump points are provided. Cheers
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Follow Up By: Notso - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 16:55

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 16:55
I was amazed on our recent Round Aus trip to find so many dump points. They are a bit less prolific in Victoria though. The West Aussies, NSW and QLD seem to have it right

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Reply By: Member - Alan H (QLD) - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 17:19

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 17:19
Have you tried wikicamps? They show dump points.

Bit scarce around Geelong, nearest I can see is Lorne or Melbourne (Sunshine)

In general, they do get scarce along the coast. Need to plan a bit about where the next point is. Work out how long you can go between dump points. I generally dodge coasts and cities and if we do go there then pick a van park that has its own dump point.

Alan
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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 17:36

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 17:36
One could ask ' so where is the nearest dump point ' to your own home base ?And who paid for it ? You as a ratepayer ? Or more likely its in the C/van park that is a business that needs to comply with a miriad of rules and regs that cost $$$ to implement …. totally independent ? Yet you want some else to pay for your poop disposal …….
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Follow Up By: Member-George (WA) - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 17:42

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 17:42
Alloy, Tourists/Travellers will usually spend money wherever they stop. This helps the local businesses and economy. So I don't entirely agree with your comments.
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Follow Up By: OBJ - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 17:44

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 17:44
Sheesh, Alloy, your a happy little vegemite ... NOT! I don't think that was where the original poster was coming from at all.
Where do you dispose of your waste?
OBJ
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 17:54

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 17:54
The point is that there is NO such thing as a totally independent traveller , someone is still paying for so called 'independent' travellers waste disposal and to complain that councils and ratepayers should provide infrastructure such as a 'dump point ' for free ?? Come on , pay your way ! Use the van park that has spent the $$$ for you benefit and is entitled to a return on that investment .
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Follow Up By: Notso - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 18:59

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 18:59
So Alloy c/t , you'd probably never use a public toilet then! Wouldn't want to use up ratepayers resources Eh!
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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 19:19

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 19:19
Agree Alloy. Why should councils pay for a dump point. OR toilet blocks, park benches, parkland, water troughs, scenic walkways. The sooner we get rid of people who like some sort of an amenity the better off we all will be. Bloody taxpayers!! Fancy expecting something that many places would consider the norm!!

Now off you go Alloy and find that box of happy pills...
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 00:14

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 00:14
Or car parks, footpaths, parks and gardens and picnic areas, playgrounds and libraries. Better not use any of these if you are not a ratepayer in that town LOL.

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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 01:38

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 01:38
And don't leave off "pay for parking".
Oh hang on those meters that seem to be sprouting up like weeds after the first rains get erected by the local shire.
Guess where the money for the road and bit of footpath on which they have been erected came from? The consolidated revenue of local ratepayers.
And you know what really rankles me is that they do not discriminate between locals and blow ins. We all get to put money in the slot.
Please don't start dragging in unrelated issues. It only goes to prove how weak your argument is.
You want a service but don't want to pay for it.
Well guess what sunshine. Someone does.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 06:36

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 06:36
Yeah yeah yeah , U lot are "TOTALLY INDEPENDANT TRAVELLERS" but scream long and LOUD that others must provide services and infrastructure for U to be Independant …….OOOps Better get onto Tony Abbott to put a Dump point Conveniently in front of Parliament House for all these independant travellers …..
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 07:23

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 07:23
Many of the things councils do is funded by commonwealth or state grants under one umbrella or another and it all comes out of consolidated revenue, otherwise known as tax revenue, initially.

Some of what many councils do is designed to attract tourists to their region, more so for regional councils.

I don't doubt that there would be some grant program that covers the construction of a dump point in any town.

Constructing a dump point would be "using sprat to catch mackerel".

As a plumber I can say that it would cost virtually nothing to construct a dump point in nearly any town. It could be sited next to the council depot or beside the local sewer works as it is in some towns so the cost would be minimal.

Governments know only too well that one way to breath life into regional towns is to attract tourists to those regions and get them to spend a few dollars. It has worked exceptionally well, in some places, beyond expectation.

This creates employment as we all know but importantly it reduces the Govt. handouts in that area in all sorts of ways and injects a little confidence into the psyche in these places, powerful medicine. That is more important than govt handouts through social services.

Any council that ignores or shuns the tourist dollar is shooting itself in the foot.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: bobsabobsa - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 09:47

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 09:47
One could ask ' so where is the nearest dump point


Outside my laundry door, all the old houses on sewer had a domestic sink outside in SA just lift the grate and dump and wash down with the tap. Also good for washing out paint brushes
bob
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Follow Up By: Notso - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 12:00

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 12:00
One should also mention that councils receive a contribution from the "RV Friendly Town" program so the cost to the "Local Ratepayer" is negligible.

There is an unfortunate view by some local govt areas that they should restrict the free, or low cost campers and make them stay in caravan parks. Now there are basically three different groups in the motorhome and caravan fraternity. Some will use van parks all the time, some will use van parks when it is convenient and the others are basically full time free campers and will not stop in a town unless there is a free camp available. This group is growing quickly.

A caravan park offers products to us, we choose whether that product meets our needs or not. One thing van parks could do is provide products that are more suited to the needs of the "Self Contained Travellers"
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 21:53

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 21:53
Public health matters and infrastructure, whether for locals or visitors, is a matter for government and it seems to me that ignorance of needs and/or petty fighting over funds might be the limiting factors. Has the RACV or a caravanning group done anything about making a submission to government for better access?
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:47

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:47
CMCA has proved to be the most pro-active in getting a much wider network of dump points. Those not eligible for full membership (ie those who don't have a motorhome) can contribute to CMCA by becoming an associate member.

Meanwhile most of us can campaign in our own town if it doesn't have a public dump point, and give them the details of the CMCA subsidy scheme. That would be the best network to get something happening. I have tried in my town and failed (not one single Councillor had any idea), but where previous caravan park management would not let non guests use the dump point for love or money, it can now be used for a $5 fee, but most do not like driving down into the caravan park when they are not staying.

Does you town have a public dump point?

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Reply By: Motherhen - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 18:08

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 18:08
Dump points are just like public toilets. Many travellers no longer use public toilets as they have their own so it just a shift. Both are a public health need, and something that Councils should provide. It gets even easier for them thanks to the CMCA scheme which funds dump points for installation. A few years ago there were hardly any public dump points in the south west of Western Australia, now thanks in part to CMCA there are lots.

If there isn't one in town, ask at the visitor information centre or council office. In some cases they will allow you to use public toilets. Even if they don't, if we all ask, the need will be established otherwise they will never know. I have asked at a Visitor Centre to be told "We have never been asked that before".

As said, the growing directory on Wikicamps is becoming the most all encompassing list. There are a number of websites which I have links to, but none are complete. Camps Australia Wide publications list a number of them.

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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 19:23

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 19:23
Spot on MH
More and more towns are providing these facilities and they get my vote - plus custom.
The cost to install one of these dump points in a town that has a common effluent system and reticulated water is not great, especially if they avail themselves of the subsidy.
As for CPs charging full tote odds - $35(?) - to use one, that is just a blatant rip off. Even charging $10 is way above the marginal cost of provision, including the staff "cost" of half a minute to collect the fee.
As for the nearest one to home Alloy C/T, it is a private facility. About 2 metres from where I park the van next to the carport ;-)
Cheers
Andrew
PS One of the many advantages of using nappisan in the loo is that it is OK to dump in septic systems.

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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 13:21

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 13:21
Wrong Wrong Wrong Motherhen , Dump points are nothing like a public toilet or footpath or parks and gardens in that they are for the exclusive use of a small section of the travelling public whom declare that being
'totally independent travellers' they do not "need" to pay their way for an infrastructure that is purely for their so called "independence"..!
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 15:03

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 15:03
So where do the funds for the dump points the CMCA scheme provides come from? Not from the local Council, although they do have to cover maintenance and cleaning costs as they do for public toilets, and the cleaning would be quicker and easier for the dump point.

Most of us pay rates somewhere, and are happy to "share" local facilities with visitors and travellers.



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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 15:20

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 15:20
Oh dear Alloy c/t

I suppose it must be really quite annoying to see tourists, especially those who do not use the local CPs and might just be passing through, using facilities that were supplied by the local council (albeit possibly partly or wholly with funds provided by the Commonwealth or State government. Or maybe, heaven forbid, by a local business or voluntary organisation).

For example, the public toilets could have been made much smaller if only for local use. And parking places for caravans or even C/Ts, making it inconvenient for locals - no matter that they are spending money in the town. No need for such a large Information Centre built and staffed at considerable expense.

Take Broken Hill. Solid local economy based on mining. No need for tourism - just a pita really. But wait, they have a free dump point out by the race course. Mind you, to find it is a bit like geo-caching :-)

Next time I am passing through, I might find that there will be a large sign on the approaches stating "Self sufficient travelers not welcome here". Maybe eventually the locals issued with an ID card while outsiders will need to visit on a PAYG basis.

I am sure the local businesses would be right behind such an initiative.

Cheers
Andrew
(Tongue firmly in cheek)
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:07

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:07
Using that rather ludicrous logic we shouldn't cater for the needs of disabled users either. How about we cut out expensive medical procedures for rare diseases while we're at it?
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Follow Up By: Member - Nutta - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 20:46

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 20:46
Hey alloy ct, wheres your follow up, i love reading lunatic replies from people like yourself!
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Reply By: Stretchlizard2 - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 18:33

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 18:33
I would question your heading of "Totally Independant Travellers".

Although I agree with the thrust of your post allowing responsible dumping of waste, I disagree with the term "Totally Independant".

I believe that the travellers you are referring to are dependent on the generosity of ratepayers of the areas that they travel through who have to pay for the rubbish removal (wherever responsibly dumped), water supplied and the black water disposal.

I would suggest that there are areas of Australia that are not appropriate for "Totally Independant Travellers".
AnswerID: 541233

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 20:40

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 20:40
Yep agree. What a croc. "Totally Independant Travellers" my r's.

When you can generate all your own power needs, supply all your own water requirements, contain and process all your own grey and black water, recycle or dispose of your own general rubbish then and only then do you qualify as totally independent.
As long as the great 'someone' has to supply any of these you are dependent on that entity and it would appear that these services should be supplied free of charge to you.
And please don't try the old "but I pay my rates and you drive on my roads". Sorry that don't fly with me.
Try booking into a caravan park and pay for the right to a bit of ground to park on, the right to connect to their water supply, the right to plug into their power supply, the right to use the ablution block including laundry and the use of a dump point.
You may only need to do this on an irregular basis depending on just how "Independent" you are.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:24

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 22:24
Poor choice of phrase maybe but if you want to apply the (extremely transparent) "ratepayer" logic then you'd better be prepared not to travel outside your local council area because somewhere along the line you'll be imposing yourself upon the "hospitality" of others. You might also be contributing directly and indirectly, and comparatively more than some ratepayers on a usage basis, but apparently that's irrelevant in the minds of some.

The 'don't use my roads, sit on my benches or dunnies, use my bins, take up my parking spot, etc' brigade have an interesting take on how societies function best.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 09:35

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 09:35
Good luck if you come to Sydney. You'll pay to drive on the private toll road that gets you to the beach where the local council will charge you to park, 24 hours, 7 days a week!

It is user pays all the way...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: Stretchlizard2 - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 13:46

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 13:46
I am a dependent traveller.

I can carry 85lt of drinking water and 170 lt of general use water and can store 85lt of grey water and a cassette of black water. I can pump water and filter it from creeks and billabongs to refill my tanks. I can use solar to generate more power than I can store in my three batteries.

But, I am dependent on other sources for clean water, somewhere to dump my grey/black water and general rubbish disposal.

I am also dependent on being able to get fuel so I am content to pay the price which may enable the roadhouse/servo to still be in business next time I pass. I buy my groceries and beer as I go and do not bring it all with me.

I do not steal toilet paper, hand soap, paper towel or water from community provided amenities.

It is a privilege and not a right to be able to travel. If the cost is too high, stay home and see it on Google street view.
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Reply By: steved58 - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 18:47

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 18:47
I have had a need to dispose of black waste upon arrival back home the hills in Perth there are no public dump points nearby within 20kms I gladly gave big 4 $10 to use their dump point I believe that councils should provide these for public health however when they are not available I will gladly pay a private operator I commend this big 4 park for this Forrestfield This good attitude by them to allow use for a fee even though you are not a guest goes a long way and as such I recommend them to friends and fellow travellers as a good place to stay when in Perth

Steve
AnswerID: 541234

Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 23:32

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 23:32
We use our toilet on returning home. We are on a septic stem and we only use sodium percarbonate soaker powders.

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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 22:11

Sunday, Nov 02, 2014 at 22:11
http://www.cmca.net.au/services/dump-points

Cheers,
Peter
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Reply By: Member - reggy 2 (VIC) - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 11:21

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 11:21
Hi try this site I have every state downloaded on to my lap top.
sanidumps.com
Not in Geelong on this site maybe if you look at other towns close by.
Cheers
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 12:44

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 12:44
If you use Napisan instead of proprietory toilet chemicals you should be able to empty your cassette into a public toilet bowl with a clear conscience.

Napisan is safe in septic tanks whereas those other chemicals often contain formaldehyde and will make a septic tank useless and very smelly.

A last resort of course, is to dig a deep hole in the bush and dump it in there.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 12:53

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 12:53
Ahh but digging a deep hole is too much work for the 'Totally Independent Traveller ' … they want someone else to supply the hole at no cost to themselves ….
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 15:15

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 15:15
Ally, don't use my post to support your antagonistic comments.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2014 at 01:39

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2014 at 01:39
I notice that Alloy has changed his tactics over the last year or 2.
Previously he would post a trolling message and not return (maybe just snigger watching the responses)
Nowadays he gets his titties in a tangle and cant help going ratatat on his keyboard.
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Reply By: Member - Peter H1 (NSW) - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 16:32

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 16:32
If you have a motor home you should be in the CMCA and their website [geowiki] lists all the dump points and they assisted to pay the councils to install them, check the label on the next one you use.

PeterH
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Reply By: Rob J8 - Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 23:16

Monday, Nov 03, 2014 at 23:16
As a ratepayer in the City of Busselton I heartily congratulate them for installing a public dump point. Also as a caravanner I believe every town and City in Australia should have a dump point. The independent and non independent caravanners of Australia spend a bloody lot of money whilst travelling so we don't want people dumping in the bush.
Alloy, don't be so mean.
AnswerID: 541276

Follow Up By: disco driver - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 02:21

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 02:21
Rob,
Yes, you are correct in saying that the travelling caravanners spend a lot of money while travelling, but where do they spend it.

I live in a small southcoast town,55km from a large country city and we have 3 fuel outlets,1 largish independent supermarket, a couple of smaller grocery outlets and a butcher. There are the usual clothes, newsagency and hardware places and 3 good caravan parks.
We don't have a public dump point yet, the current council is not in favour.

Because a group of us operate a woodturning club and outlet adjacent to the Visitor centre we get to talk to a fair number of tourists.

Apart from a number of questions about tourist places etc, a lot of the questions are about prices of food and fuel in our town and when we advise the prices they generally ask how far to the next big city (It's 55km), does it have a Coles/Woolies and questions about the fuel prices there. Then they jump into the van/mobile home and go there, they might buy enough fuel to get there but not bloody much else in our nice little town.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 09:56

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 09:56
Disco, while what you say is true, it is not true for everybody.

I discovered a nice free camp near a New England town in NSW. I had to fuel up and resupply so we went into the town that provided the free camp and did just that. While I was there I made a big deal of telling the shop owners that I was staying out at their free camp and am spending money in there town ...and... at the same time thanked them very much for providing such a nice free camp. I got nothing but positives from those people. I stayed 4 days and spent over $300 in the town. And will do it again as often as I can. I can see the day though when a fee will be applied, maybe.

One of the local clubs and the council set the area up and a council worker comes around every week day to ensure there is sufficient loo paper and to ensure the facility is clean otherwise there is no supervision.

It is respected by everyone that uses it as far as I could see except for some locals, apparently from the next town, who left their campsite like a pig sty when they left.

I bought it to the attention of the council guy when he came out, as I knew they were local, and he said that they were probably from the next town. How do I know they were local?, once they set their camp up they ducked off for a half hour or so and came back with a boat in their box trailer. Must have been local therefore.

Not everybody is that tight that they will not give a benefit if they receive one. Many of us are very grateful for the privilege.

On the other hand up at Bolon in QLD I had heard they have a good free camp there and one day a chap called into the garage where the brother works and the brother commented "You have a pretty good free camp there in that town, how's it going?"

"You mean the water rats". Brother asked what he meant and the chap replied,

"Well they come into town and stay there for weeks for free and leave their rubbish behind when they go and boast that they did not spend so much as a dollar in the town".

These are the sorts of grubs which make it difficult for the rest and are the sort that get every bodies back up.

I guess the rule of thumb is;
'If you are going to use a facility in any given town, spend a dollar or ten their, even if it is just a full tank of fuel'. Every little helps.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Rob J8 - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 12:30

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 12:30
Maybe I should elaborate on what I said.
We belong to Bi-Tone West Coast Caravan Club and hold monthly Rallies.
At each rally the members are asked to give a tally of how much we spend in these small towns. We include every dollar we spend.
In a lot of cases we stay on council properties around the edge of ovals ie the local footy club etc. If the town has a caravan park we are forced to stay at those parks but the money still stays in the town via the council. At the end of the rally our co-ordinator tallies up our spends and you would be surprised how much we spend. we would probably as a club spend around $2000.00 for a 2 night stay, av 35 vans per rally.
As for public facilities,correct me if I'm wrong, there is only 1 public facility between Perth and Settlers Roadhouse at Myallup going the Forrest Highway. Hats off to the CMCA for all their efforts in helping to make motor home and caravan travel more comfortable.
I meant to mention; as a club we try to stay at small towns not the bigger ones and if you think caravanners don't spend what about FIFO's in the North West; they don't even go to the towns. They earn the big dollars and spend it in Perth or as luck would have it Busselton
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Reply By: Gronk - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 10:28

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 10:28
If you find an area has no dump point, then don't use your on board dunny......use the public ones !!

Easy solution !!
AnswerID: 541285

Follow Up By: mikehzz - Wednesday, Nov 05, 2014 at 07:12

Wednesday, Nov 05, 2014 at 07:12
I would add to that, never expect anything for nothing. If there is a good free camp then it's a bonus, not a right. The same applies for free dump points. Free camps and free dump points are loosely termed "tourist attractions". It's up to the locals to determine whether the upkeep/hassle is worth any benefits they might get back from independent travellers.
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Reply By: TomH - Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 11:11

Tuesday, Nov 04, 2014 at 11:11
The heading says it all

If they were TOTALLY independant they wouldnt need a dump point or water etc.
AnswerID: 541287

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