fit out of new 200 series

Submitted: Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 12:55
ThreadID: 110155 Views:2843 Replies:7 FollowUps:33
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Currently have after market turbo 4.2 100 series with steel winch bull bar/ 2" OME lift/air bags/snorkel/ single swing out spare/roof basket/CB etc.etc.
My question is hopefully someone else has up graded too and can help with their starting point.
Also concerned about descent's in the Victorian high country while towing Kimberley Camper.
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Reply By: CSeaJay - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 13:04

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 13:04
Phil,
New car feeling is great.
The 200 has a remarkable wheel travel as stock. Suggest that the 'lift' you are referring to shoul only be as a default when upgrading the shocks and springs.
Many a topic has been had wether to go OME or Lovells or another, leave that to be researched and debated separately. A 'lift' in using the upgrade above would give you 50mm or so depending on the selected system. No more is needed.
Snorkel etc are your choice, nothing to do with a 200 as such.
As to descending, not sure why you are concerned, or what the question is. The 200 will do it as good or better than what you previously had. All you beed is a good set of rubber, but again that is not a 200 specific thing.

Enjoy
CJ
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil H (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 14:45

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 14:45
CJ many thanks. Correct me if I'm wrong-suggested is 50mm front and 20mm rear. My concern regarding decent is with my previous vehicles they were manual and I had control, What has your experience of their decent control been. Does it not tend to runaway slightly?? Oh yep only spoke of OME as that's is all I have had in the past. Again any thoughts there?? With rubber issue A/T has again given me a good overall run so will stick with factory fitted.
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:07

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:07
Phil,

I have an auto Prado, D4D diesel. In low range the engine braking is excellent. I tow a 2200kg Kimberley Karavan on some pretty adventurous tracks (well, for that rig anyway. There are limits:-)) and have no issues beyond there obviously being 2200kg behind. No excessive runaway, just a bit of help needed with light braking on VERY steep descents.

Been into Bendethera, NSW from Moruya (only legal way in with a trailer), Goldie Spur track in both directions over the back of Mount Buffalo, Vic, into and out of Dingo Dell in the Blue Mountains. All very steep but easily accomplished with normal care.

If Toyota have used the same logic in the transmission in the 200 Series diesel you should have no problems with your lighter trailer, IMO.

Cheers
FrankP

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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:26

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:26
Phil
Ok understand the auto thing with descent
The 200 has hill descent control. Works a treat. Uses abs braking at each wheel individually. Only works in lo range.
CJ
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil H (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 20:21

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 20:21
CJ Again thanks.Have some nice little descent's not far from our place in Blaxlands Ridge, so hoping to have a play this week.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 20:48

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 20:48
They upgraded the hill descent control - its now a 5 speed crawl control - works up hill as well as down hill. Works amazingly well - as long as you get used to the noise of the brakes being frequently applied.
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Reply By: Notso - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 13:50

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 13:50
You might think about a GVM upgrade before you get it registered, apparently it is easier to get it approved.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil H (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 14:52

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 14:52
Yep good point. I'm concerned that if I upgrade too much the new spring ratings will make for a harder ride. Was thinking of air bags for those occasions like CSR SIMPSON GIBB RIVER etc. Do you feel my reasoning is O.K.??
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Follow Up By: Notso - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 15:40

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 15:40
I think there are plenty of systems available that won't hurt the ride and handling, just give you a bit more useable carrying capacity.
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Reply By: Steve in Kakadu - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 13:56

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 13:56
Hi Phil.
I have 2 200 series, one is fitted with heavy duty King springs on the rear with Dobinson shocks, and a medium spring and shock on the front, this car has an alloy bull bar. With this combo you will need to put weight in or on the rear, believe me the ride is sensational and still going strong after 2 years of pretty hard work.

The other has Drummond motor sport front springs and shocks, the rear are King springs and Drummond motor sport shocks, I was given these to try for the manufacturer at no cost. These shocks have 22 adjust settings, however they are hard to adjust to the work I do ( 50 / 50 ) dirt tar, with the dirt road deteriorating over the year, how ever they are still ok, this car has a steel bull bar and you could adjust the rear shock instead of putting weight in the rear.

The price for the first set with wheel alignment was $1900.

The price for the second one would have been $5200, there is not $3300 difference in set up in fact it is not even close.

As for snorkel the better of the 2 is the Safari as the TJM one is crap in the set up and in my opinion looks.

I have just put 285 70 17 Wranglers on one and they bring the speedo to exact, they lift it a bit more but are a little noisy.

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Follow Up By: Member - Phil H (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 15:02

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 15:02
Steve Thanks your response. At this stage I 'mm trying to maintain as much of the standard ride as possible. You have confused me (not too hard I must confess) Are you saying value for money,yet still good performance 1st example???? Agreed Safari Snorkel a definite.
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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 15:28

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 15:28
Hi Phil.
The first one has the much cheaper set up and are generic products, however Dobinson shocks are top quality and have stood the test of time. As I said with the heavy duty springs on the rear they are stiff if there is no weight on them, but they do the job once you do have weight on them, so yes great ride it lifts it up and is a no fuss from standard fix that is great value for money.

My problem with the second set is, it is hard to adjust them for my day to day use EG: for the ride to be great every day I would have to adjust them every day, depending on how many pax I have in the car, if I have it set up for 2 passengers one day and then have 6 the next, I would have to change the set up, so finding a happy medium is a lot of work. So they are expensive and a lot of work from standard to get it right.

Drummond Motor sport make suspension for the Paris Dakar rally cars, the North American motor sport market, the rally market and the V8 utes, the guy who fitted them told me they are trying to get into the 4WD passenger car market, the shocks would be great if you wanted to race you 4WD at Bathurst but on a on off road passenger car they need to do some more work in my opinion.

Hope this helps


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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:00

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:00
Guys, Forgive my ignorance but honestly, I would like to understand.
Why is any lift or upgrade needed at all? There was no mention of carrying excessive loads or the like and I thought Toyota had got the 200 Series pretty right.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:31

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:31
Allan
Horses for courses.
The 200 is just about right as you say, for touring on its own or with a medium camper on tow. But, like any other vehicle on the market, once you start loading her up with bullbar, roofrack, longranger tank and gear, then add a heavy van on the towball, it is asking of much from the standard suspension.
CJ
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Follow Up By: Member - Silverchrome - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 17:01

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 17:01
I think you are right Allan. For the majority of users the 200 series is fine as it is. The only thing I would do (and did) is put air bags in the rear coils. Import from USA yourself for about $160 and they are not hard to fit. We towed a 2700kg van for thousands of Kms and it sat completely level on the road. I personally would not spend thousands on upgrading anything unless you plan to push it to its limits and tow a 3500kg Bushtracker or similar.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 17:11

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 17:11
The thing with the 200 series is that it doesn't take many toys to put it way over its GVM. That's probably the case with 90% of standard 200s on the road when they are set up for towing etc..
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 17:27

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 17:27
People comment on the lack of carrying capacity the 200 has...... Both the Patrol and Pajero have less than to 200 series as many others do as well.

It takes very little in the way of accessories to make most 4x4's overweight, most owners have never taken their 4x4 over a weigh bridge when loaded..... As an example, add 2 passengers, another 150lts of fuel, 100kg from a trailer and a 60 lt fridge full, an auxillary battery and a bull bar and your nudging close to maximum GVM.

Most vehicles when set up for touring are over weight and a GVM and suspension up grade is warranted on most vehicles.

Sure they will carry the weight in standard form but were never ment to carry extra weight for extended periods over varying terrain.
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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 18:05

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 18:05
Hi Allan what I found with the 2 I bought ( second hand ) both under 80,000 ks was with six adults + driver the suspension was pretty average, hence my up grade.

My post above was purely answering the OPs question.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 18:52

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 18:52
It amazes me that you can have a hulking beast such as the 200, with all that power and size, yet it still has a payload of somewhere around 600kilos. You sort of expect that with a smaller 4WDs such as the Paj, etc. But honestly the cruiser GVM is crazy.

Still I suppose it isn't really designed for the sort of work we give it.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 19:58

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 19:58
I had not realised that the 200 Series had such a limited load capacity. If Phil transfers his accessories over from the 100 series (or purchases equivalent) I can see the need for a suspension upgrade.
One of the reasons why I do not carry a winch.
Thanks guys
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: TomH - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 20:17

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 20:17
100 series TD has almost identical payload.

So with fuel 140kg towball 260 kg you and mum 150kg you have about 90kg for your lunch and whatever,

Never mind the tinny, outboard and roofrack, the double wheel carrier and steel bullbar and everything else you want to put in the back.
An extra spare steel wheel is 42kg on its own.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil H (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 20:51

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 20:51
Allen<
As you can see from my original post and wanting to do similar tracks with the Kimberley or off roan caravan I'm already over GVM. I'm very grateful to everyone with their input. The set up of the 100 series has proven exceptional as a result of honest advice I put into place.
Again all comments above are most helpful.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 22:06

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 22:06
Yes, thanks all. I had not realised the load limitations of the 200 Series
and that Phil intended to transfer (or buy similar) accessories from his 100 Series.
Blessed is he who drives a Troopy?
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:53

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:53
My young bloke just bought a second hand 2012 (I think) 200. It came with a steel winch bar and 8000 lb Warn winch and a snorkel.
He has added a roof rack and also bought a Jayco expander caravan. About a 16'er. With his 3 kids, camping gear and the van loaded and hooked up he wasn't happy with the ride height so has just had a 2" lift kit fitted. OME I think. I took it for a quick blast around the block and it seems to ride fine when empty. No complaints from his cook or kids either.
I don't think he had a GVM upgrade done, just the lift, but maybe the rear springs have a higher rating anyway.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:54

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 16:54
Forgot to add, his previous car was a 100 series cut down to a dual cab.
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Reply By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 22:55

Sunday, Nov 16, 2014 at 22:55
Just on payload....Toyota have full fuel tanks built into their tare specs (apparently, some other popular makes don't).
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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 00:47

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 00:47
You sure about the full tanks ?
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Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 08:16

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 08:16
As far as I have read Toyota Tare figures include only 10 litres of fuel

Kerb weight includes full fuel tanks


Others are different
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Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 08:22

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 08:22
From a Toyota brochure for 200ser

Kerb weight (kg) 2720

- Gross Vehicle Mass (kg) 3350

- Gross trailer weight braked (kg) 3500

- Gross trailer weight unbraked (kg) 750

Which however does give 630kg for load.
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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:04

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:04
Yep 630kg , not much is it , fill the fuel tank , 2nd battery , bull bar , winch , tow ball down weight , couple of ppl and a bit of gear and you a probably well over GVM
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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:11

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:11
ARB can do a GVM upgrade of about 230kg but that reduces you towing by the same amount , depending on what you tow it may not matter
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:23

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:23
Jacko,

The towing limit is NOT reduced with a GVM upgrade on a 200 Series.

It remains static at 3500kg no matter what you do with the vehicle.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
- Augustus McCrae (Lonesome Dove)

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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:42

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:42
Yep ok I will stand corrected , I was told different but the
Combined Limit would still be 6850kg , yes/no ?
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Follow Up By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:04

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:04
See HERE on the Toyota site...down the page in the glossary section. It says.....

"Kerb Mass (or Kerb Weight): is the mass of the vehicle in running order unoccupied and unladen with all fluid reservoirs filled to nominal capacity, including fuel and with all standard equipment."

As for Kerb mass (Curb mass in some circles) and Tare....I thought they were the same thing (though Kerb seems the official description).
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:11

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:11
Jacko,

No, that's wrong too.

In Toyota's case the GCM is calculated by adding the "legally certified" GVM of the vehicle, and its Towing Capacity, together.

Legal with an ARB upgrade is 3580kg, plus 3500kg (towing limit doesn't change) to give 7080kg.

(I'm using the figures in the posts just above, I haven't gone to Toyota's website. I also think there are minor differences in the GVM between models, eg GXL and Sahara).

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Kyle H - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 13:14

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 13:14
So Darian, does that means the standard 200 series GXL with a kerb mass of 2660kg if you subtract the 128 litres fuel weight would have a tare of 2558kg giving it a payload when calculated like other wagons of close to 800kg?
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Follow Up By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 15:30

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 15:30
Kyle H
True.........but........
The payload allowance does alter with every ml of fuel going in or out of the tanks, but who wants to address that calculation constantly ? If we take it that we will want to load our vehicles to the max allowable when we cruise on trips and that the fuel tanks will be full at times, then I think the 'real' payload figures are the only ones we can practically use.
Some might say that Toyota are being 'up front' re their payload, while other manufacturers are not....I couldn't possibly comment :-).
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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Tuesday, Nov 18, 2014 at 10:39

Tuesday, Nov 18, 2014 at 10:39
GB , I have obviously talked to the wrong ppl , do you know if it is only for the 200series or all Toyota Models or even other makes

I have been thinking of upgrading my vehicle but I don't know what to get . Been looking at Extra Cab Utes mostly , for their carrying capacity.

Regards Jacko
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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Tuesday, Nov 18, 2014 at 11:24

Tuesday, Nov 18, 2014 at 11:24
I have just read this , a letter from a ARB regarding a 200 Series

WITH NEW UP-GRADED GVM CAPACITY GOING TO 3580kg, THE FIGURE WE NOW HAVE TO
LOOK AT IS GCM.
THE GROSS COMBINED MASS IS 6850kg ( TOTAL ORIGINAL GVM 3350kg & TOW CAPACITY 3500kg )
WHEN INCREASING THE GVM AND LOADING A VEHICLE UP TO ITS NEW CAPACITY 3580kg, YOU HAVE TO DECREASE THE
AMOUNT YOU CAN TOW
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Reply By: garrycol - Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 13:46

Monday, Nov 17, 2014 at 13:46
With the 200 series I would consider getting the front suspension upgraded as it is a bit marginal. My brother bought a new 200 series Sahara in March this year and he fitted a half ARB wiinch bar and winch and by June with only a few thousand kms on it, it had started to sag.

By Aug the front suspension had gone - could have been replaced under warranty but he opted for a full aftermarket kit which is holding up quite well and he is quite happy with his 200.

Garry
AnswerID: 541780

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