Personal Locator Beacons

So I'm looking at purchasing a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB). As I travel to remote areas without mobile coverage I think a PLB will give me that extra sense of security in an emergency.

I've looked at the AMSA website to see the list of available PLB's running on 406 MHz and there are a lot to choose from. Anyone have any recommendations or advice as to what I should get? Any brands better than others?
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Reply By: cookie1 - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 14:37

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 14:37
Can I just say, I'm all for PLB's used as a last resort but, please get a Sat Phone at the very least.

It costs a lot of money, about $50,000.00 to my understanding, to send out search aircraft which is fine for a life threatening emergency, but when you see people that have a broken shock absorber for example, a phone is a much better solution.

cheers
AnswerID: 544544

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:06

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:06
Yes agree with having a sat phone as well and if you cannot have both would definitely go a sat phone over a PLB

As far as PLB units, I have a GME unit. It is a trusted brand that has been around for a long time and also services the marine industry.

I have had no experience with other brands to comment but no doubt there are other brands that are just as good
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:48

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:48
And I agree. Sat phone is best. You can hire them if you wish. And no doubt there are even second hand ones for sale these days. We have a satellite phone. My specialist wouldn't give me his approval if I didn't.

The two way comms provided by a satellite phone is invaluable for initial diagnosis, emergency or simply "need water" comms etc. Beats sending a medical team out if all you want is a few litres of water or fuel to get home on your own.

I think that it was last year that a couple of riders triggered their PLBs and when the chopper dropped them a parcel they didn't even bother to open the package. If they had a sat phone it would be a simple "Open the parcels boys" and things would have gone a lot better. ???????
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:57

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:57
Yes I remember that, the copper at Birdsville was condemned for his comments after travelling throughout the night with Birdsvilles only Nurse.

If I remember correctly the plane got despatched twice as they didn't go to check the parcel with smoke flare (including a sat phone, water and food) so they had to go again and when they didn't pick that one up, Neale was sent out with the Nurse as they had no idea what the emergency was.

It was a really ridiculous situation that the riders had put themselves in.

cheers
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 16:17

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 16:17
Kakadu Steve posted not long ago of some lost bushwalkers in Kakadu on a daytrip that set off their Epirb. The usual rigmarole went on without even notifying the local Nat Parks who could of attended to the situation much quicker. As a result they spend an extra night in the bush without appropriate provisions.
Nat Parks only become aware of the situation after the event.

A satphone would have resulted in a much better outcome.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:13

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:13
Cookie Did those in the Simpson use and EPIRB etc? I can't for the life of me remember what they made the initial call on.
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:28

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:28
It was the Simpson and I think it was 3 x Motorbike riders who were very light on gear and no Plan B, no support vehicle etc. etc. One had a sore back and the other 2 wanted to keep going and Neale sent them back to Birdsville for their own safety due to the lack of gear - as I say, from memory

Indeed a Satphone would have saved a lot of time, risk & money

cheers
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Follow Up By: SDG - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 00:46

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 00:46
A few years back in the ACT, a bunch of school kids and teachers got lost after their paper map got wet, while doing some adventure course in one of the local parks.
From memory they were missing for a day or two. At least one night spent in the area with no provisions.

They had an EPIRB. Teachers did not want to use it.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 06:29

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 06:29
What is lost in this type of discussion is it doesn’t matter to the authorities how they came to be in a life-threatening situation – they found themselves in one.

The question of preparation becomes academic at that stage and whilst no doubt discussed later, a rescue is not, and never should be contingent on having been adequately prepared. Whatever “adequately” prepared actually means!

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Reply By: Joe Fury - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 14:53

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 14:53
G'day Jos

No matter what brand name PLB you purchase, if it's a 406 mhz distress beacon and it is coded for Australia or New Zealand, it will be registered by AMSA.

If you choose to purchase a beacon with GPS location, it will make things for the rescuers much simpler if you are in distress.

Shame the bloke who perished last Friday in the Murchison region west of Meekatharra wasn't carrying a BLP, he would still be alive to day.

Safe travels : Joe Fury
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Reply By: Member - John T (Tamworth NSW) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:00

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:00
Hi Jos

I work for the NSW government. My work takes me into some of the most remote and hostile country in the State.

I carry a GME MT410G PLB with me at all times when working and when we (my partner and I) travel we also carry a GME MT410G.

SatPhones are fine if you want to talk with someone but when it's a life threatening situation - the PLB gives AMSA details of who you are and the GPS versions will give your location to within 5 metres.

I paid about $500 for mine some years ago but shop around and you can pick them up for less than $300 - really cheap life insurance I reckon

Cheers
John T (Lifetime Member)
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:52

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:52
Hi John, note that you also a member of VKS-737, have a Sat Phone AND a PLB, I have the same and value them all individually.

Setting off the PLB will only raise an alarm with AMSA but they will not know what sort of emergency it is they will set out to locate you, as I understand, they will drop an emergency kit to you which includes a sat phone so that you can speak to someone to relate the nature of the emergency.

Now I know myself I carry a list of emergency services to the areas that I am about to travel to so in the event that one of us gets into some strife then one of us can make a call.

cheers
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Reply By: Idler Chris - Vic - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:56

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 15:56
These days it costs about $700 to get a Sat phone and a PLB. If you travel at ANY time as a single vehicle in remote areas, then to put your own lives, and those of would be rescuers for a one off cost of this amount I would suggest madness. The PLB is easy to set off and gives the right authorities all the right information immediately. Assuming you have told them you have a Sat phone you can expect them to ring fairly quickly. If you break down you should not use a PLB (only for life threatening situations) and the Sat phone is your best friend. Believe it or not it does rain in the outback. The most sensible thing to do if it does is to find some higher ground and sit it out, which is why you should carry emergency rations. This has happened to me on several occasions and the Sat phone was very necessary to alert family that I am OK so don't report me as missing.
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Follow Up By: Member - Cuppa - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 11:09

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 11:09
Hi Chris, if possible could you post details of where/how it is possible to get a Sat phone and a PLB for around $700 please.

Thanks
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Follow Up By: cruza25 - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 17:41

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 17:41
http://www.satphonesales.com.au/Satellite-Phones?zenid=149930a56b2eee9c7e9e7c1731bd10c6

Refurbed phones for $385 and epirb are $300 to 400 on many web sites.

No excuse not to have one.

We crossed the simpson in october and hired one for the crossing.

Cheers mike
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Follow Up By: Member - Cuppa - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 18:03

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 18:03
Thanks Mike.
Still trying to get my head around all the different pre & post paid packages. It’s one thing to pay out for a few weeks to cover a specific trip, but quite another if planning to be on the road full time for a number of years

Ideally what I’d look for would be the best priced ‘emergency use only’ plan, which can be switched on when required (without the need for forward planning). We don’t need others to be able to track us, or to be accessible to others, just the ability for two way conversation in an emergency when beyond mobile phone signal.

My head is spinning with all the different plans.
At first I thought - $15 per month access fee seemed ok, but it looks like I’d need to buy credit, (& sufficient credit to ensure I don’t run out of credit when talking in an emergency situation could run me $70). That too would be fine, but then it appears that if I don’t use the $70 worth of credit within a month I lose it? I’m then up for over $1000 a year without ever using the phone. I may have it wrong, but that’s what it looks like to me. If, for example, I could buy a re-furbed phone & pay a monthly access fee plus perhaps $100 credit which lasted 12 months I wouldn’t hesitate to do so in addition to a PLB.

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Follow Up By: cruza25 - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 18:39

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 18:39
Hi
I looked into it and may get one later this year.

I think its 15 per month and you only pay extra for calls made.
so 180 per year and if you keep it for emergencies only then its quite good value for the peace of mind it gives you.

it should be checked and tested, kept in an easy to reach place with a list of useful and emergency numbers. All passengers should be capable of using it incase you are the one needing help ...

cheers mike
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Follow Up By: Member - Cuppa - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 20:00

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 20:00
If that’s how it works then I would agree that it is good value for the peace of mind Mike.

What I remain unclear about is *how* you pay the extra for calls made. I have difficulty believing that the providers would allow users to make the calls & bill you later, but maybe it’s just a flexible direct debit arrangement?

It is the possibility of paying in advance, but losing that amount if not used up within a shortish period of time which I find it difficult to swallow.

If anyone has a long term arrangement for emergencies only, please let us know how it works payment-wise.
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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Vic - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 20:18

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 20:18
Cuppa, here is a link for a great phone,

http://www.satphonesales.com.au/Globalstar-GSP1600-Refurbished

Ring them and talk to Kevin or Sue they will explain the $15 PM plan which is with Pivotel, they are very easy to talk too.

RE a PLB go here

http://www.exploroz.com/Shop/AllItems.aspx?s=plb

This gives several options. A dedicated PLB or a SPOT device which is also a tracker which is great for the family to follow you but does have a yearly subscription.
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Follow Up By: R.J.W. - Tuesday, Feb 03, 2015 at 12:53

Tuesday, Feb 03, 2015 at 12:53
Hi I have a satphone that was originally bought with the two year pre paid option which was quite good value. This has now expired and is not available anymore I looked into all the variable options. As I don't travel all the time and have no long trip planned I have not renewed my plan. I also don't need to talk to people when away. My phone whilst not being on a plan still receives calls and texts and if in an emergency still allows calls to 000. Family can contact me if needed.
A bit of a tight arse arrangement but one that ticks all the boxes at the moment. If going on a long planned trip I can re activate it and use it as normal for one to 3 months. Cheers Rob
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Reply By: dean ( SA ) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 16:03

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 16:03
Dunno which is best but the GME seems to be popular, well priced and regularly mentioned here and on all kinds of outdoor sites.
From memory only last year their was a family rescued out at Lake Eyre who set off one of these things.
Nothing like peace of mind.
AnswerID: 544557

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:30

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:30
The rescue was a broken spring on the car, they were there for less than a day, the site has a rainwater tank, now if they had a Sat Phone, they could have called William Creek Pub and organised something from there, instead it cost the taxpayer $50k

cheers
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FollowupID: 831800

Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 18:18

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 18:18
So why not charge people who set them off for frivolous reasons.

Might make a few buy a Satfone.

They are not any harder to learn to use than a new cellphone really.

Far too many go out ill equipped, unskilled and just expect someone else to sort things out for them FREE.

The excuse that it would stop people using them doesnt wash.

Equip yourself properly for communications or dont go.

We had a CB a Satfone and a Codan UHF

Used the CB a lot and the other two only once each when absolutely necessary.
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Follow Up By: dean ( SA ) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 18:29

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 18:29
Better to spend 50k than have a dead family.
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 18:38

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 18:38
Dean, the family in dire need may well have to wait too long if the very resource is being used to locate someone with a broken spring that could have used a Sat phone to call for help.

I absolutely agree that in the event that it is life threatening and other resources cannot be used then deploy it, but as a last resort.

Relying on the PLB only, I believe, is ignorant of the side effects and is poor preparation in my opinion.

cheers
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FollowupID: 831810

Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:58

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:58
Dean Did you read the reply by Cookie1

It said they were beside a water tank so hardly were going to die and if they had a satfone could have called for help.

Probably they would have had to pay for it so a PLB was cheaper ( for them) Let the taxpayer pick up the charge unnecessarily thats the attitude
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Reply By: Member - Alan H (QLD) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 16:51

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 16:51
I just bought a GME MT406G PLB for $299 from Johnny Appleseed and this seemed to be a good price when I surveyed what was avaialable.

Alan
AnswerID: 544562

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:00

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:00
The GME is an Australian product. Good reason to choose it.

Your Australian registered PLB will work world wide.
We take ours overseas when we go and we tell AMSA where it will be and when.
We don't expect the same response, but we are confident that there would be one.

A sat. phone plus a PLB is a good plan, but buy the PLB first.

Cheers,
Peter
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AnswerID: 544563

Reply By: Rangiephil - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:10

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:10
My wife and I discussed whether to buy a sat phone or PLB (or things like SPOT) before our 2014 lap of Oz.

I had a TIA just prior to the trip and my wife made the point that she didn't want to stuff around learning how to use something if I was out of action, but wanted something she could just switch on and summon help.

A PLB is by far the simplest thing to use, and we bought a GME with GPS.

Its all very well that you may be able to use a satphone but what happens say if the car rolls and you are unconscious and your travelling partner also injured but conscious but confused. Surely the simpler the better.
Regards Philip A
AnswerID: 544568

Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:18

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:18
In the instance you write of Certainly as its life threatening.

However too many pull the pin for a puncture they dont have the ability to fix.

If its not life and death a Satfone is a far better option.

While the chopper is looking for someone doing that you could be dieing.

Pause for thought.
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:36

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 17:36
If you have had a TIA then I would have thought that your Doctor would have much preferred a Sat Phone, there is a lot you can do for someone with that or a full stroke.

By the time help arrives you are in serious trouble as it could be many hours before help arrives.

I know of another chap that used to frequent these pages with a serious health issue(s) and was instructed to not go without the Sat Phone

cheers
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FollowupID: 831801

Reply By: Jos - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 18:30

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 18:30
Thanks everyone for the info. I really wasn't trying to start a Sat Phone v PLB debate, although it raised some interesting points.

I live in a remote part of Australia, so I always leave home well prepared. I know Sat Phones are great! However, if I go kayaking or for a bush walk (away from the campsite), I like that a PLB has the versatility to be put in a pocket. It's always charged and simple for anyone to use in an emergency. I don't look at it as a replacement for a Sat Phone - it is a different device.

So, as suggested, I'll look at the GME one. Any used the RescueMe PLB1?
AnswerID: 544576

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 18:41

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 18:41
Sat phones are quite small, as small as any other phone on the market, I reckon I'd be hard pressed to stick an PLB / EPIRB in my pocket

cheers
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FollowupID: 831811

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:24

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:24
Jos, wading past cookie1's chip on the shoulder about them (judging by the multiple posts on this thread and his ignorance - cookie have you checked the size of plb's nowadays???? ) - your description and need is pretty spot on.

Quoting the AMSA site on use...

"When should a distress beacon be used?

Distress beacons should only be used when there is a threat of grave and imminent danger. In the event of an emergency, communication should first be attempted with others close by using radios, phones and other signalling devices. Mobile phones can be used but should not be relied upon as they can be out of range, have low batteries or become water-damaged."

So if a Sat Phone is practical, by all means use them as a first resort, however having travelled with others remotely with Sat Phones, they can at times be hit & miss. In a genuine emergency, the epirb/plb is still the most reliable option.
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Follow Up By: Slow one - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:33

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:33
My gme plb will fit in my pocket no problems at all but I don't think I would even consider carrying it there. I would have to get 2 pockets sewn together to carry my motorola sat phone and I still wouldn't carry that in those pockets.

Jos, I do stick to GME as I have had a very good run with their products over the years.
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FollowupID: 831824

Follow Up By: cookie1 - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:34

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:34
Scott not sure why you have chosen to attack me but that's fine whatever floats ya little boat pal

No chip on my shoulder mate but I do have a concern for people losing their lives outback and the poor sods that have to go out and retrieve their bodies and tell their loved ones of their demise.

Take it lightly if you will, but mark my words they are closing tracks due to poor behaviour of any description so this is just another reason to close areas off.

Where is my ignorance mate, you post up a comment like that without even a reference to a PLB / EPIRB that fits in your pocket, I do carry an Epirb as I am not ignorant of rescuers and it is rather large, please enlighten us all with your wisdom.

So I happen to be correct in what I am saying well how's about that

If you have to attack people voicing their opinions on a Public Forum then you may well be the one with a chip

cheers
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FollowupID: 831825

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:46

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 20:46
cookie, below from the link that Jos provided... quote "I reckon I'd be hard pressed to stick an PLB / EPIRB in my pocket". In fact the situation that Jos suggested " if I go kayaking" is probably a VERY good example of where a PLB is useful. Not many Sat phones I would rely on after they've been dunked in the water. That aside, this thread :

Thread 88391

is probably one of the best I've seen regarding the circumstances for using an epirb/plb on this forum. But getting back on topic, the OP's original question was:

"So I'm looking at purchasing a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB). As I travel to remote areas without mobile coverage I think a PLB will give me that extra sense of security in an emergency. " and your responses were basically 'buy a Sat phone' 'buy a sat phone' which wasn't what the OP was asking.

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Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 05:17

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 05:17
Satphones and PLBs serve two completely different purposes.

The PLB is specifically designed to raise an alarm, the phone so you can speak to someone. And for sure, take both if you can, but if you are looking for a sure way of alerting someone to a life-threatening situation than a PLB is it, full stop.

And what is an emergency? When you need assistance due to some occurrence that could potentially become life-threatening – that might be a flat tyre in the middle of no-where!

The last thing the authorities want is people delaying the use of a PLB until they “really” are in a life-threatening situation.

It is easy to condemn others for the use of them in what might appear to less than life-threatening situations to others. But that is all very subjective commentary from the armchair.


Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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FollowupID: 831851

Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 06:26

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 06:26
Adding...I use an ACR ResQlink PLB - fully compliant and registered with AMSA.

Noting, that when travelling you can upload your plans to the AMSA website. If a beacon goes off they will review any notes/plans you have left on under your log-in at the AMSA.

ACR ResQlink

The following image are car keys, ACR ResQlink and Qualcom Sat-Phone - The PLB will fit in the smallest of pockets!



Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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FollowupID: 831852

Follow Up By: Slow one - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 06:56

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 06:56
Baz,
well said about the delaying of the use of the PLB, as you know heat stress comes on very quickly from the initial headache, CONFUSION, vomiting, diarrhoea and the brain shutting down of organs can be very quick.

Yep as you said, it is easy to condemn without having been in that persons shoes.
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Follow Up By: Member - Munji - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 08:19

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 08:19
I'm sure if people did a risk assessment on all scenarios that could present on a remote trip it would be obvious to take both.
Too many people taking these risks and making decisions on cost alone, sacrifice some luxuries for a month before you go and that will cover the extra cost.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 08:46

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 08:46
Munji when you cut to the chase you are 100% correct
If both of these items only cost $50 each everyone would just have them and this debate would not exist
Same could be said for the locker V winch debate.

When you cut all the crap out, it all comes down to the $$ and viewpoints are formed on whether you are prepared to pay for the item
or not.
Really when you consider your fuel costs without taking anything else in consideration to get to these remote places. It is not a big investment for life saving devices
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FollowupID: 831864

Reply By: Member - Ian F (WA) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 19:32

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 19:32
Hi Jos,
I have both, 401 and a Spot Connect. I do realise there is an annual fee for the latter but any one that I nominate can track me in case of emergencies etc. it averages out to be a 10 minute gps reading every 10 minutes. I can also send short messages if I require non urgent help. the only down side is that it's only one way communications
this paired to your smart phone. you do not have to be in mobile range. The 401 is a back up if required. Relatives of mine reckon it is a waste of money! They should tell that to the two who have just their lives families.
Ian
AnswerID: 544579

Follow Up By: Member - Ian F (WA) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 22:16

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 22:16
Apologies I meant the GME MT410G not the 401.
Ian
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FollowupID: 831835

Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 22:53

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 22:53
Hi Jos


GME only now make the GPS enabled PLB and at under $300 is the cheapest life insurance you will ever spend.

Sure they are one item that we never want to activate, but in the event of serious injury, and a life threatening event, it's nice to know that someone will come to your aid.

My GME will be at the end of its recommended life this year and over the last 7 years have come down well over 200% in price. Depending on how soon you may want to buy one, there may be some cheap deals going out in the coming months on the GME's.......our rep was telling me a few months ago that they are most likely bringing out a new and smaller model around the middle of the year.



Cheers



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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 23:06

Monday, Jan 19, 2015 at 23:06
"$300 is the cheapest life insurance you will ever spend"

Stephen, couldn't agree more.

For the sake of $300 and chuck it in the glovebox, neither of these tragedies would have happenend.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-08/man-dies-after-car-breaks-down-in-remote-wa/6006916

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-18/man-dies-in-extreme-heat-in-remote-wa-after-truck-breakdown/6023592

both of these were in the last 2 weeks.......
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Reply By: Batt's - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 00:22

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 00:22
If you were doing a lot of remote stuff a sat phone would make a lot of sense and a PLB as a backup device and handy because of it's size. On another note I have an EPIRB which I have always had it registered to my 4WD as well because it can be registered to multiple items which is a good idea.
AnswerID: 544600

Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 09:31

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 09:31
Let me put it out there – have both a Locator Beacon and a Sat phone.

However, something that is often overlooked in the Sat phone versus Locator Beacon debate is the response you get from using either one.

The activation of a Locator Beacon invokes a very specific response from the authorities which has been mandated and well understood by all who use it, and those who implement the service. And this occurs no matter where in the world it is activated.

There is absolutely no ambiguity – activate the beacon, it will be detected by a satellite, your position will be established and the response process commences immediately. And the response follows a very specific pathway, escalating over time until a result is achieved.

Ringing someone does not give any assurance that you will get the response you expect, no matter how well intentioned the person on the other end of the phone is.

There was the tragic incident in the Blue Mountains a few years ago when a young man made contact with the emergency 000 number and he did not get the response he needed. He died well within reach of civilisation because his phone call was not acted upon. Without trawling over that incident again, it is fair to say a review of the incident was made and recommendations to how they respond in future were implemented.

But it highlights the important difference between these devices if you are intending to use either alternative as an "emergency communicator".

There is no mistaking what an activated beacon is requesting – help!

Speaking on a phone leaves the message you are trying to convey open to interpretation, or delay.

Neither is mutually exclusive, but understand in an informed way the advantages and limitations of either…

Cheers, Baz – The Landy


AnswerID: 544614

Follow Up By: Jos - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:27

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:27
Thanks Landy.

One of my concerns has always been about how to give someone my exact location over the phone in an emergency (especially a medical emergency). Not easy if I haven't got the GPS co-ordinates at hand - and maybe not quick to get if there's an emergency. At least a beacon will pinpoint my location and I can be assured there's no misinterpretation.
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FollowupID: 831871

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:44

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:44
Baz, spot on. Both have their purpose, similar to the HF radio vs epirb debate before Sat phones became somewhat more affordable and available.

I get a little concerned over some of the debate regarding PLB/epirb use, particularly around some of the comments about not activating until the grim reaper is knocking on the front door or fining people. Agree what constitutes an emergency is somewhat subjective at times, however I have known a number of people involved in SAR over the years, and to a man they would rather be called out BEFORE a potential life threatening situation becomes a life threatening situation or worse. It's far more costly to rescue someone on deaths door or already dead than rescuing someone who's fit and able. Or the cost of the search for someone who's location is unknown.

I remember a comment on this forum about a year ago by someone on a epirb debate proudly announcing they'd rather drive out of a situation with a broken limb rather than set off the PLB. Rescue/SAR folks would tell you that is irresponsible.

The two cases above I highlighted have happened in the last few weeks. Apart form the obvious failure of basic SAR 1-2-3 :

1. tell someone your itinerary and expected ETA / rescue time
2. carry enough water and
3. STAY WITH THE VEHICLE !!!

A simple $300 plb would have saved two lives.
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FollowupID: 831872

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:51

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:51
Jos I agree with everything that Landy has said, I carry both a Epirb and a Satphone ( I had the Epirb for boating use anyway) and just got back from the shop to buy a PLB as well due to their compact size for bushwalking

FYI my satphone will display my GPS coordinates and will also send them via a message if you want
I don't know if that is a standard function on all of the phones or not.
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FollowupID: 831873

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 13:40

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 13:40
"One of my concerns has always been about how to give someone my exact location over the phone in an emergency (especially a medical emergency). Not easy if I haven't got the GPS co-ordinates at hand - and maybe not quick to get if there's an emergency. At least a beacon will pinpoint my location and I can be assured there's no misinterpretation."

Jos - correct. Even if you managed to get through to Emergency Services on the Sat Phone, the first thing they would tell you in a genuine emergency is to set the PLB/eprib off. As an emergency location device, they are still daylight second.
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FollowupID: 831884

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 14:38

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 14:38
That is all very well and agree when it is an immediate emergency but what about incidents that are not initially life threatening but could escalate into one without the appropriate action?
What is the appropriate course of action if your only means of communication is a PLB and at what stage in a potentially escalating event do you flick the switch?

A couple of examples I have been involved with personally where we were immobilized by a mechanical failure in the Simpson desert. Nobody was hurt or in immediate danger, we had sufficient supplies but it was 50 degrees so a potential to change rapidly. With the aid of a satphone we were able to order parts and just set up camp and wait for their arrival the following day, repair the vehicle and drove ourselves out.

The other was when we were remote travelling with a family whose child had a serious existing medical condition.They were concerned about a change in their condition and with the aid of a phone were able to advise and seek advice from their specialist doctor at home. On day two of liaising with their doctor it was decided it best to get to a hospital for treatment.
Appropriate arrangements were made with the Royal Flying doctor service for us to take the child to the nearest runway for him to be airlifted to hospital.

If you only had a PLB what would you do if faced with similar situations?
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FollowupID: 831891

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 14:53

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 14:53
Alby, agree - at no point have I said that the Sat Phone isn't a important bit of equipment, fills a similar niche that the HF Networks did before Sat Phones became more common place. If I was traveling remotely on my own, it would be the 2nd essential piece of safety equipment after my eprib.

My concern was that the fear of setting a plb/eprib off because of the imagined "consequences" would possibly deter someone using them at all. For every example of where a Sat Phone is useful (mind you many would question the wisdom of "remote travelling with a family whose child had a serious existing medical condition"), there are many more where a small $300 device would have clearly saved lives. To me a PLB/eprib is an essential no brainer, a Sat Phone is a multi-purpose tool.

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FollowupID: 831893

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 16:03

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 16:03
Scott I know you weren't, I was just pointing out a couple of typical situations to highlight the benefits in having both items available to you.

In the case of the family travelling with us on that trip, the child's condition was a life long managed one and was stable before the trip was planned. His mother is a nurse and we deliberately took a route that kept us within acceptable reach of medical assistance should the need arise.
It is also a case of a family wanting to live as close to a normal life as possible.
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FollowupID: 831900

Reply By: Sat Phone Sales - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:44

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 11:44
It's great to see vigorous debate on the pros and cons of satellite phones vs PLB's. I guess one has to look at them as different "tools".

People often forget they may be involved in "emergencies", when out on the road, that are happening at home. No way is a PLB going to assist you to being alerted about an event back home. So the tool for this is the sat phone.

Cracking a PLB is an appropriate response in a life threatening situation where there is NO other ways of communicating your needs.

Indeed the technology crosses over now with the emergency function built in to SPOT, inReach, and some Iridium and Inmarsat phones. Hitting this button will facilitate a response similar to a PLB. With the exception of the SPOT the devices then allow two way communication so authorities and rescuers can arrive better prepared.

If you want to look at something that allows 2 way communication, can operate like a PLB then have a look at inReach devices. From $229 for a two way SMS and tracking that links with the GEOS Alliance which provides emergency response co-ordination through the International Emergency Response Coordination Centre (IERCC).

Another factor to consider is that when you activate a SPOT, or PLB you have no way of knowing what the response is going to be and how long you will be waiting for assistance. That cold be an enormous amount of mental anguish when someone is having a life threatening medical episode. Indeed with two way communication that medical episode could be stabilised by professional advice until physical help arrives.

At the end of the day, it's different tools for different jobs. But with the extremely low price of hardware and connectivity why not have ALL the right tools!



AnswerID: 544618

Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 16:16

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 16:16
For me, there is no debate.

Neither is mutually exclusive and having both may increase your chance of getting the outcome you need.

But a key plank in this debate should be …

“Are you equipped to survive?”

Increasingly, reliance is placed on electronic devices as a means of communicating a call for help. It could be a Sat phone, PLB, or even HF radio.

You’ve made the call, pushed the PLB button, and put out a call on the HF Radio.

The help you need may still be a long way off – Are you equipped to survive the wait?

Travel in remote places, and remote could be 50 kilometres from a major Australian city, requires far greater planning than which device you will use in an emergency.

All food for thought, and I’m in agreement, the cost of the technology means it is accessible by most, and certainly a small cost imposition for those undertaking long, remote area travel.

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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FollowupID: 831902

Reply By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 13:07

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 13:07
I have the GME PLB (GPS enabled)...+ a SPOT Messenger...+ a sat phone

over the top ?.....I don't think so..... I travel remotely...not always with company

I would use the EPIRB if I had to obviously but my choices make it easier not to seek help with that immediately......I hope never to use it

The SPOT keeps the family happy with a snail trail + ok message and location every 24 hour......they know what to do if it doesn't arrive

The sat phone is on a schedule....same above...family knows what to do


The EPIRB is for me to activate if I have to but if I physically cannot because of my circumstances...the other two will have kicked in with our pre arranged arrangements.....and someone will find me with a pretty good location estimate
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AnswerID: 544624

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 14:02

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 14:02
We have almost exactly the same setup and procedures, Bungarra, though we don't have a schedule with the satphone, just the Spot. 10 minute tracking with the Spot just for the family's interest and an OK message every day in the morning and afternoon. If we miss that they know what to do.

We inadvertently tested our system a few years ago, and pleased to say, it works. We were base-camped so tracking was off. Sent an OK message in the afternoon from base camp, and next morning went off 4WDing in the Vic High country with mates, missed the morning OK report. Got back at fivesies time, cheese, bikkies, wine and beer served by the girls and we settled around the campfire happy as.

Called the son and DIL on the satphone just to say hello and they asked if we'd had any visitors yet. Just then the boys in blue arrived in a Patrol.

Turns out, son, daughter and DIL had conferred amongst themselves and then with local police in Sydney - "Is it normal behaviour?" "No". "Well we'd better do something then." NSW cops talked with Vic counterparts closest to the last OK report who subsequently turned up to check on us.

Red faces and sheepish explanations, and a blue note penalty donation to RFDS (It was a club outing). Sergeant and constable enjoyed our hospitality for a couple of hours and then, ahem, drove home. Luckily town was not too far away so the inconvenience of the callout was minimal (in fact they said it was a welcome break from routine:-)), as was the risk of them getting caught on the way home!

We are re-assured that our system works and we are now quite religious about our morning and afternoon OK reports.
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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 18:58

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 18:58
Our schedule for the satphone is that i have a window of half an hour each evening when i turn it on in case i need to be reached.....cant turn it off quick enough at the end of that period because you sit there willing it not to ring !
I dont call out on it unless absolutely necessary.
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FollowupID: 831909

Reply By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 19:17

Tuesday, Jan 20, 2015 at 19:17
Jos
Can't speak to their reliability but the new pocket-sized KTI's (~$300) have 10 year battery life. Australian made.

http://www.chsmith.com.au/Products/Safety-Alert-SA2G-PLB-with-GPS.html
AnswerID: 544637

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2015 at 07:41

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2015 at 07:41
I did a bit of research on them yesterday
The company has been around a long time and was previously manufacturing for other brand names
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FollowupID: 831950

Reply By: Nigel Migraine - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2015 at 15:28

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2015 at 15:28
For land travellers in Australia a Spot Messenger is the best option.

By all means augment it with HF radio or a satphone.
AnswerID: 544686

Reply By: Jos - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2015 at 16:16

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2015 at 16:16
This debate has been great. It has also encouraged me to do a little thinking.

Yes, I'm getting the PLB. I don't own my own sat phone - probably not that smart considering how remote I live and travel. So, I will also invest in a cheap but good (2nd hand) sat phone that I will keep for "emergencies" - the type of emergency that I don't need to use the PLB for.

Small investment for peace of mind.
AnswerID: 544688

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Jan 21, 2015 at 18:04

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2015 at 18:04
Agree, it prompted me to buy a PLB, I wasn't aware they made them so small now
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FollowupID: 831984

Reply By: Member - Teago - Friday, Jan 30, 2015 at 17:47

Friday, Jan 30, 2015 at 17:47
In my opinion a PLB or and EPIRB are for when you are in the drink(literally) . With a Sat phone you can have the option that if you are on your own and in real trouble you can call 000 or 112 with an EPRIB orPLB you can also set it off. But in most emergency cases it is preferable to be able to talk with the emergency service agencies or road assist and that is where the phone the works . The cost of action when a PLB or EPIRB is activated is tremendous and in my opinion a selfish way of getting help. Question How much would you contribute to the cost if you activated your PLB or EPIRB .?
Do you expect it free?
Regards mike11
AnswerID: 545081

Reply By: KeithS44 - Friday, Jan 30, 2015 at 19:03

Friday, Jan 30, 2015 at 19:03
Have used a Satellite Spot Tracker for years. http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=101. Works as PLB, as well as sends spot where u r camped, button to ask for help from family and also plots an an trail. Fun, useful and potentially life saving.
AnswerID: 545086

Reply By: Stoneleigh - Friday, Jan 30, 2015 at 20:43

Friday, Jan 30, 2015 at 20:43
Why doesn't GME make a sat phone with a PLB built into the one device?

Tim
AnswerID: 545087

Follow Up By: Sat Phone Sales - Friday, Jan 30, 2015 at 22:23

Friday, Jan 30, 2015 at 22:23
Very interesting question.

I guess it's because a PLB does not rely on a network operator.

PLB's are a very simple device, they are a simple UHF transmitter sending a signal that contains an ID, and a in some devices, a position.

A satellite phone is technically a whole lot more. It needs to register on a provider network, identify itself and receive information on it's status on the network. After that there is still a whole lot going on - how a call is routed, billing etc.

GME do well at producing simple RF devices (radios, PLB's etc.) To build a satphone requires a lot more expertise and collaboration with service providers, unless they wish to launch their own satellites!

In Australia there are only four mobile satellite communication providers.

Inmarsat
Globalstar
Thuraya
Iridium

No Australian Telco owns any of these networks. Hardware (phones) is unique to the provider - they all use different technologies. So for somebody to "build" a satphone they would have to partner with a single provider and collaborate in routing and call charging facilities to make it worth while. In this respect I am sure the Australian market is too small to develop a device not already supplied by the existing four satellite network operators.
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FollowupID: 832600

Follow Up By: Stoneleigh - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 09:39

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 09:39
Thanks Sat Phone Sales,

Useful info, but I can't see an impediment to creating a multi-purpose device.

The two functions do not need to be logically connected, just physically in the same device (not difficult when you consider what is in a standard mobile phone these days).

The market for the four global satphone companies would be global too, not just Australia.

A little bit of innovation and collaboration between the satphone makers and PLB/EPIRB makers could make it happen, as long as there is a market for it.

Tim
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FollowupID: 832623

Reply By: dusty99 - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 09:06

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 09:06
I am a bushwalker & spend about 1/4 of the year traveling in remote areas. I carry a PLB & a sat Phone, the reason is sat phone i can talk to anyone if I need to but the battery can go flat & it can stop working if wet. The PLB is water proof & the battery must be replaced every 5 years, you can test the battery each month to see if ok. Your details must be sent to AMSA each 2 years for updating. So if a life is in danger it will work. I have had 2 friends use their PLB's while bushwalking in remote areas (2 broken ankles) both times S & R got them to hospital really fast. By the way EPIRBS are for boats & those on board. PLB's are for those on land
AnswerID: 545102

Follow Up By: dusty99 - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 09:16

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 09:16
By the way when you activate a PLB you will then need to have it reset by the manufacturer the cost is around $200 to $250 however if you contact AMSA & ask for a report & the report states that the activation was righteous (or OK ) there is no charge
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FollowupID: 832618

Reply By: Member - Cuppa - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 11:11

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 11:11
This is a most useful discussion. Thanks to all.
From my perspective having both a PLB & a sat phone makes a great deal of sense.

Some questions:

1. Which sat phones can send GPS coordinates?

2. Is there a list of ‘useful numbers’ available somewhere to be able to call in a crisis (dependant upon location) other than 000 ?

Thanks
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AnswerID: 545103

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 20:12

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 20:12
Cuppa,

The Hema Great Desert Tracks series of maps have a list of "important" phone numbers on them, relevant to each map area.

The RFDS website might have a list of base phone numbers too, which could be a "lifesaver".

Bob

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FollowupID: 832668

Follow Up By: Sat Phone Sales - Sunday, Feb 01, 2015 at 08:42

Sunday, Feb 01, 2015 at 08:42
The Thuraya network phones and SatSleeve can send the GPS position, as can the Inmarsat phones.
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FollowupID: 832685

Follow Up By: Member - Cuppa - Monday, Feb 02, 2015 at 15:01

Monday, Feb 02, 2015 at 15:01
Thanks Bob, I have all the Hema Maps on my iPad, but hadn’t previously paid attention to the lists of phone numbers
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FollowupID: 832765

Reply By: Member - mepvic - Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 20:30

Saturday, Jan 31, 2015 at 20:30
Great thread and lots of useful info. We have a sat phone only that suits us fine.
It hasn't been mentioned in the forum but ours is a satsleeve type that uses our iphone.Just clip the iphone into the sleeve, open up the sat phone app and you have a sat phone. So simple. Can use the sleeve without the phone if necessary with a button that dials 000. The sleeve has an inbuilt mic and speaker and a large battery that can even run your phone if your battery is running low.

Plan is simple to open costing $25 to set up and $15 per month plus calls or texts. The beauty of this plan is you activate it just before you leave and then cancel when you get home. The sleeve also runs on a standard Aus sim card so any calls to the sat phone are at the callers rates. Our daughters plan is free calls to any Oz mobile or landline between 6am and 6pm so she can ring us for free during this time. That's the other won't with a sat phone. Not just for emergencies but family and friends can contact us at any time or we can ring home any time.

Like FrankP and Bungarra, we let family and friends know that we have the phone on between 6 and 7pm every night local time if we are out of the mobile range. Try us on the mobile first. They know roughly where we are and our time zone as they can locate us on ExploreOz EOTrackMe. They can send us an sms through the day if we are out of range and we will get it as soon as we turn the sat phone on.

We, and our travel partners, also have a number of Apps that show us our coordinates so we know where we are and can send this info or let people know.

We travel with friends and rele's and make sure they all know where to locate our sleeve and iphone and how to use it.

Have put a lot of thought into our requirements and the satphone works fine for us.

AnswerID: 545136

Reply By: Member - Carcass - Monday, Feb 02, 2015 at 09:22

Monday, Feb 02, 2015 at 09:22
Last year I was at the 4WD show in Sydney & came across this PLB

http://www.inreach.net.au/index.html

It offers the ability to connect with your smart phone (or as a stand alone unit if you don't yet have a smart phone) so that you can send proper text messages not simply "I'm OK" updates like the SPOT.

AnswerID: 545215

Follow Up By: Member - Carcass - Monday, Feb 02, 2015 at 09:31

Monday, Feb 02, 2015 at 09:31
I also meant to mention that because it is tethered to your smart phone you can also RECIEVE text messages
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FollowupID: 832741

Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Feb 02, 2015 at 11:23

Monday, Feb 02, 2015 at 11:23
There are a number of Third Party Providers these days, Spot Tracking is one and there are others. They may require payment of additional fees for the service.

If purchasing one be aware it is not necessarily the same as purchasing a PLB that can be registered with the AMSA, the body vested with responsibility of co-ordinating SAR activities in Australia.

Doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with purchasing one, just be aware of potential differences between these and ones that can be registered with the AMSA.

The following is reproduced, in part, from the AMSA website.

“What about other tracking and distress devices?

There are an increasing number of devices advertised as tracking beacons with an auxiliary distress function and are marketed as being similar to a PLB.

Care should be taken to ensure that any distress alerting device purchased is Cospas-Sarsat compatible as many of the tracking devices available operate on mobile or satellite phone networks and are subject to network limitations.

These devices are not manufactured to the same standards as a Cospas-Sarsat device and do not meet the requirements of a registered EPIRB, PLB or ELT. Going without a registered 406 MHz beacon can expose you to serious risk in a distress situation.”

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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FollowupID: 832752

Reply By: Beastie - Monday, Feb 02, 2015 at 16:47

Monday, Feb 02, 2015 at 16:47
I went from Telstra to Optus full service. By paying $15 a month to Thuraya for the SATSLEEVE service, I am still $30 in front and can ring most places in the world.
Used the sat sleeve up the Canning. No problems. Use it in The Grampians which are well away from the satellite, and have to be under the eastern side of a cliff for it not to work.
EPIRBS good in a medical emergency, sat sleeve for a medical emergency and a broken axle, or to ring your mum.
AnswerID: 545240

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