How to self-defence if i get attacked by an animal or bad guy

Submitted: Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 06:44
ThreadID: 116973 Views:3502 Replies:23 FollowUps:41
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Hi mates,
alone in the outback and notice someone or something who wants to attack and hurt me.
How can i defend myself if its to late flee???
More important: whats allowed?
baseball bat, pepperspray, huge knife, gun, shotgun, tank, Harry Potter spell, pray ???

Seriously, what do you recommend?

Heiner
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 07:38

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 07:38
Hi Heiner

This is Australia you are talking about?

My biggest fear when camping in the outback is waking up next morning and find a flat tyre on my vehicle.

Seriously you have never travelled into our great outdoors, as we do not have any wild animals that want to make a meal out of you. We have had on many occasions dingo print on and around our old open swag and never any issues.......will i tell a lie. Once during the day at Dalhousie, Fiona did not put her boots in the car while we are swimming and a dingo decided that it wanted to play hide and seak with them.

The only wild animal that will want to feast on you will be only found in our far northern areas, the salt water crocodile. If he wants to make a meal out of you, they are thst quick, you will never see it coming.

as for people, outback Aussies are some of the nicest people you will ever meet and if in time of trouble, will go well out of their way to help you.

This is Australia, not the bad west or the middle of Africa where there are nice wild animals that would love to snack on you. As for the items you mentioned above, get caught with them and the only trouble you will have will be the Police.

Gee I am glad I live in our great country where my biggest fear is a nice mulga stake through my tyres.



Cheers and happy outback travels.


Stephen
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Follow Up By: Member - Heiner B (INT) - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 07:53

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 07:53
Hi Stephen,

hmm, thought i've heard something about tourist klilled in australia and some wild fighting dogs in the bush. An australian boyfriend told me about the danger of wild pigs...

But you're right, i think i have to many black thoughts ;)

And i'm not afraid about salties. if they bite me, i'll bite back :)

Mulga stake are my noodle refund :)

Cheers
Heiner
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 08:06

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 08:06
Hi Heiner

Yes you are true about tourists being murdered in the bush a good number of years ago. The person reasonable was a psycho German tourist that went crazy with a high powered rifle.

He in return met the same fate that he delt out, by a single bullet from our elite SAS in the remote areas of Western Australia. As they say, you can run, but you can not hide from our SAS.

As for mulga snakes, never leave your swag open when not using it during the day. All our outback travels are during our cooler winter months and you will find that snakes are not active at night then, it is just too cold.

See you out in our great safe Outback, sleeping under the stars.


Cheers


Stephen
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 08:06

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 08:06
Hi Heiner

In this day and age it always pays to be alert no matter where you are or what you are doing. But having said that, we have travelled extensively throughout Australia without incident and most people do!

The only thing you'll need to defend yourself is a bit of common sense ad a friendly demeanour!

Enjoy our country,

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony F8 - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 09:22

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 09:22
It was the police tactical response unit that shot Peter Schwab, not the SAS. Apparently you can run but not hide from them too.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 11:33

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 11:33
Peter Falcoio........there was a chef from Alice never made it to Adelaide......Pete the Painters body found up near the Sandover turn off I think..........the mother and daughter held hostage by the gunman.......and if only the mine shafts at Coober Pedy could talk....LOL
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Reply By: Iza B - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 07:45

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 07:45
Seriously? What's a location got to do with anything?

Iza
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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 09:09

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 09:09
Whats a location got to with anything?

Don't understand the question...
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Reply By: Michael H9 - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 09:17

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 09:17
If you trust statistics, then you should be worrying more about car accidents or drowning. They are the real threats to international tourists. Bad guys are very rare and wild animals attacking you even more rare.
AnswerID: 549586

Reply By: Member - wicket - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 09:39

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 09:39
Heiner should be more worried about flies than anything else
AnswerID: 549589

Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 09:53

Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 09:53
. . . and Drop Bears !!
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Reply By: Slow one - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 10:02

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 10:02
Best to go and watch a few Bruce Lee movies and hang a black belt over your rear vision mirror or just talk to them in a politically correct fashion, making sure you do it in a soft and fluffy way.

Another way is to take Paul Hogan with you and he can stare them down.
AnswerID: 549591

Reply By: CSeaJay - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 10:22

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 10:22
The original question is not being answered, all of the above replies are just skirting the issue.
It is a fair question. When camped on the side of the road on your journey (not your chosen destination) and more than once I felt some type of anxiety due to people sniffing around. Friend of ours were camping and fellow campers high on happy mushrooms and associated smokes made them nervous.
One also read on this forum of campers (again overnight type camp) where young nogoods stopped to sniff around.
I too am interested in the answers.
AnswerID: 549593

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 10:34

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 10:34
Hi CSeaJay

The question has been answered. Heiner asked about camping in the Outback, not camping in well populated areas and Big Towns, as you will not find happy mushrooms out in the bush.

Like all situations you need to be careful, but out in the bush, there is usually no one near you for hundreds of kilometres. If you are in an area where you think there could be people around, then camp well off the road and not make your camp visible to other passing vehicles.

Get caught with any of the items that Heiner mentioned and you will be charged by Police.


Cheers


Stephen

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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 10:35

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 10:35
If we're near a town I get as far off the road as possible and near (not too near) others if I can. Hopefully then those cars full of ne'er do wells travelling to or from pubs in town won't see us and decide to have some fun.
Take precautions like that and you should have years of safe travel as many of us do.
AlanH.
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 11:34

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 11:34
Stephen,
I am referring to outback. Where did I mention well populated places?
Specially where you are 100km from others, my high on drugs moment referred to exactly that situation. Also elsewhere on this forum it was posted by someone that if it wasnt for their dog there may have been a different outcome. And, yes that was also outback.
CJ
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 11:38

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 11:38
Oh for the editing button,
May I add that my concers are probably highlighted in that I am the only male, with a wife and daughters I am probably more curious of the answers than others.
CJ
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Follow Up By: TTTSA - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 11:42

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 11:42
"Get caught with any of the items that Heiner mentioned and you will be charged by Police."

I don't think so, quite legal to carry a registered firearm. Not that I do while camping, but wouldn't be charged for it. Think you would be ok with the baseball bat too as long as you didn't have it by the side of your car seat.

Agree though that my biggest fear would be waking to a flat tyre, have never felt threatened out in the bush.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 14:30

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 14:30
"I don't think so, quite legal to carry a registered firearm." ....... as long as you have a license...... and given the Heiner is coming from overseas and would need to comply with the waiting period and character reference and backgroung checks .... the chances of him getting a license while he is here is quite low.

Honestly, recommending that an O/S traveller procure a firearm for safety is IMHO rather silly at best, especially as 99+% of remote travelers in Aust manage to traverse this country safely without one.
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Follow Up By: TTTSA - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 18:53

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 18:53
Where in my answer did I recommend that a firearm be purchased?
You won't generally be allowed to buy a firearm for the purpose of self defence anyway.
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 00:37

Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 00:37
"I don't think so, quite legal to carry a registered firearm." .....
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Reply By: Member - ACD 1 - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 10:53

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 10:53
Hi Heiner

As the sensible people have already said - nothing to worry about.

I have recently returned from eight months travelling around Australia with my wife and two young boys. Not once, again not once did I feel threatened at any time during our trip. We come from WA, which many will say is a quiet backwater, so we are used to a quiet lifestyle.

Even when visiting the large cities on the east coast, late at night and catching public transport coming home from football games, we felt completely at ease. In the whole eight months we only saw one piece of trouble (two drunks fighting outside a pub) and we simply crossed the road.

Carrying knifes, weapons, pepper spray etc is illegal in all states and territories of Australia (unless you have a lawful reason and self defence isn't one). Apart from that, if you do pull one out it will generally only serve to inflame the situation.

If you have a happy positive outlook and are sensible in your regards to your own safety (if it doesn't feel right don't go there) you will be OK!

Come and enjoy our great country.

Cheers

Anthony
VKS 3539
Work - a 40 hour interuption to my weekend!
Too many places - too little time

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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 11:23

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 11:23
Gday,
Ill have to disagree with those saying there are basically no dangers, and one persons idea of the "Outback" and "remote" are not necessarily someone elses........

eg. 50km out of a town while on foot because your vehicle has broken down, no traffic and have no means of communications can be remote...........

To some the "outback" can be 100 km West of Sydney........The middle of the Simpson desert, or a crocodile infested billabong in the Top End etc and to say you don't need to be careful in any of those areas sounds a little naive to me.

Tanks and spells are not the usual form of self defence in my experience.....I personally find avoiding certain areas and behaviour a lot more beneficial and legal, but also cary a large hunting boomerang in my drivers side door pocket. LOL
Maybe if you tell us where and how you plan to stay we might be able to give you a bit of advice.......

Cheers
Hairy
AnswerID: 549597

Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 12:26

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 12:26
A lot of great responses and this is a topic that lots of people consider.

Problem with carry any form of a weapon (besides being illegal) becomes an issue if the other party takes your weapon off you and uses it against you. Sounds good to front some young noisy campers with a baseball bat but should they be quick enough and disarm you then you get the resultant beating. Better to have no weapon, approach them with a polite request and then retire. And yes some may ignore you - better than attack you with your own weapon.

For traveling and camping it has been mentioned already if I am to pull over for an overnighter I look for other campers and camp in the vicinity. They too will have similar thoughts of security.

If I am really remote I will go down a small track well off and tuck in behind a bush screen so no-one sees my camp fire. I also position my car for an easy drive out - mostly for inclement weather but also for relative ease in leaving quickly.

If you do feel insecure due to persons or dingos (not much else out there) getting in your car and locking the doors is probably the best option.

In Australia even if you are a register firearm owner you may only transport the fire arm from one place to another, not carry it with you at all times. Also in transport it must be unloaded and secured (locked in boot or such). It would be pretty useless as a quick defense item unloaded and locked away.

I try not to camp close to townsites in case the local youth decide to drive just out of town for drinking and partying. I go that bit further.

Hope this helps

Serendipity



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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 19:47

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 19:47
Exactly what we do. Town yobs and a few locals in certain areas are the worse you'll face. Sensible precautions like those above will ensure you'll never have to worry much about your own or the families safety.
Happy safe travels in Oz.
AlanH.
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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 12:32

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 12:32
Heiner - The answer to your question is; On the extremely rare occasion when someone with a criminal or violent bent decides to attack you, you are allowed to defend yourself with equal force.
If you injure or kill the attacker, then you will end up in court having to explain how the injury or death occurred whilst trying to defend yourself from an unprovoked attack.
You would have to provide evidence the attack was unprovoked.
If you lie about the circumstances, then it's very likely your lies will be exposed, and you will be found guilty of either manslaughter, or causing "grievous bodily harm".

Fortunately, Australia has a fairly good record for personal safety. Most attacks on persons are provoked, it is extremely rare to have an unprovoked attack.
Having said that, drug use IS an increasing problem in Australia, and heavy drug users are often paranaoic or schizoprenic and very unpredictable in their behaviour.
However, it's rare to find heavy drug users in the remote and rural areas. They cluster in the poorer, more violent suburbs of our cities.

I have been attacked twice in my life - both times I "provoked" the offender by trying to stop a violent assault on a woman, in broad daylight, in the street.
One of them was most certainly a very violent drug-using offender, he was much larger than me, and I was lucky to escape him.

As a result I am very wary of trying to actually stop any personal assault. My wife and I just recently witnessed a violent assault by one large male on a smaller male in broad daylight in the middle of Perth.
The offender was Aboriginal and almost certainly a heavy drug user. Numerous other people tried to stop the assault and they were assaulted themselves.
This offender was very violent, and used anything to hand as a weapon - bar stools, signs, and poles.

You will find that the greatest risk of assault in Australia is from drunk or drug-affected Aboriginals. Be very wary of them, particularly if they outnumber you.
They will nearly always ask for .. A: - cigarettes, B: - money - C: - an alcoholic drink.

Be firm, never give them anything, and be very alert to them getting very angry, very quickly, when you refuse their request.
Be alert to them carrying a weapon such as a piece of wood, a large screwdriver, or a piece of metal.

Be firm in your refusal, and ensure you don't turn your back on them, because they are "dirty fighters" and will attack you from behind and when you are distracted. Their aim is always to bash and rob you.
This does not mean that ALL Aboriginals are dangerous. The largest proportion of Aboriginals are friendly enough, but they have a propensity to violence and destruction if angered.

You can take precautions by learning some basic martial arts moves. My stepson and his lady are top-class Mixed Martial Arts exponents and they have won international competitions.
My stepson has taught me numerous moves that disable an attacker quickly. As a Vietnam Veteran, I was also taught some basic enemy disabling moves in the Army.

Using a leg to kick out at an attackers knee, from the front or side, disables an attacker quickly, because it dislocates the knee.
A kick to the diaphragm disables an attacker as he struggles to breathe. Cutting off air to an attacker is important, if they struggle to breathe, they forget the attack as they try to get air.

If you do end up in close quarters contact, you can carry out a neck lock from the rear.
You place your left arm around the attackers neck, and twist it so the forearm bone is against the "Adams apple" (the thyroid cartilage surrounding the larynx).

You then raise your right arm, with the forearm vertical, and grasp the middle of the right forearm with your left hand (left hand palm against the right arm forearm).
By then pulling your right arm towards you, you develop a vice-like grip on your attackers neck, via your left arm.
Gripping the middle of your right arm increases the leverage, and increases the pressure you can apply with your left arm muscles.

The left forearm bone in great pressure contact with the "Adams apple" causes extreme pain and commences to crush the larynx, thus cutting off the attackers air supply.
This move disables most attackers quickly, as they merely grab your arms and try to remove them, which is nearly impossible to do.

A trained martial arts person, when faced with a neck lock as above (or a headlock), uses their right elbow to punch rearwards into an attackers diaphragm.
You make a fist with your right hand, and smack your fist hard with your open left hand, at the same time as punching hard rearwards with the right arm - thus performing the equivalent of a hammer and punch motion to the attackers diaphragm.

When faced with an attacker holding or swinging a weapon of some type, avoid the weapon swing, then attack as the swing goes past and the attacker is unbalanced.
Kick the arm holding the weapon to try and break it, or utilise the diaphragm or knee kick as above, to bring the attacker down.

If you spend a little time learning some basic martial arts disabling moves, you will be more confident and be able to "handle yourself" if the situation deteriorates.
Always be confident and alert - attackers look for weakness such as fear, reduced defence ability because you are drunk - and they will often try to outnumber you.

Carrying pepper spray in Australia is illegal, as is carrying large knives or machetes - unless you can prove you have a legal use for that item.
Naturally, in the rural and outback areas of Australia, a good size knife is very handy, and an excuse can be, it is a fishing knife or boning knife for cutting up meat. [;-)

Self Defence techniques

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Lionel A - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 17:42

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 17:42
Crikey Ron, between you and your ego I'm surprised there's any room for your wife in the relationship.......lol.

Cheers....Lionel.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 23:35

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 23:35
Lionel - Ha ha! You ought to see my missus in action! Four of us - BIL (Snr Sgt), BIL's wife, myself, and missus were walking past a nightclub that was on the other side of the street, probably 20 yrs ago - and a huge bouncer came out of the nightclub dragging a patron and pounding him to a pulp!

Us blokes all looked on and thought, "Well, the p#i$# probably deserved a hiding for trying to smack a bouncer - but before 10 seconds were up, the missus was across the street, and had the bouncer by the collar and was pulling him off the patron, shouting, "That's enough!!"

We all went a bit slack-jawed at this turn of events - and believe it or not, the bouncer let the bloke go, and just turned on his heel and walked back into the club!!
Now, my missus is a big girl (5' 9" in the old figures) and she's a Superintendents daughter - so I guess it was the old policing genes coming through! LOL

We all berated her for taking on the bouncer - but she was right, of course - a lot of bouncers are too brutal. However, there was no way we were going to interfere and collar a bouncer!! But, she's a girl of principles and she wades right in, where angels fear to tread! LOL

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:59

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:59
I find these remarks below by Ron N disgusting to say the least, they are racist bigoted and simply not true. You can find this behavior happens in any town city or country for that matter daily by any race colour or creed.

"You will find that the greatest risk of assault in Australia is from drunk or drug-affected Aboriginals. Be very wary of them, particularly if they outnumber you. They will nearly always ask for .. A: - cigarettes, B: - money - C: - an alcoholic drink. Be firm, never give them anything, and be very alert to them getting very angry, very quickly, when you refuse their request. Be alert to them carrying a weapon such as a piece of wood, a large screwdriver, or a piece of metal. Be firm in your refusal, and ensure you don't turn your back on them, because they are "dirty fighters" and will attack you from behind and when you are distracted. Their aim is always to bash and rob you. This does not mean that ALL Aboriginals are dangerous. The largest proportion of Aboriginals are friendly enough, but they have a propensity to violence and destruction if angered."

Ron you should be ashamed of these words, others may not find them offensive but I certainly do.

As for you Ron's special online self defense lesson that was dangerous and laughable, Dangerous because without proper training this could lead someone into a false sense of security, and laughable because you believed you could teach someone self defense in an online forum in a few sentences.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 13:23

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 13:23
Steve - The facts refute your claims. There's nothing like rolling out the "racist" and "bigot" card when a particular group of troublemakers is identified.
The facts are, that Aboriginals make up a vastly larger % of people charged with crimes of personal assault, car theft and robbery, than any other group in our nation.
That is something that both you and those calling themselves Aboriginal, can't possibly deny.

Now doubt you'll no come back and complain about the fact that Aboriginals are "victimised" and "are struggling with identity and cultural problems", just as all the Aboriginal apologists do.

When you see police stationed full time at the exit to the supermarkets in Alice Springs, just to try and keep theft by Aboriginals to a minimum, then you'd have to admit that the group you are trying to defend, don't have a defense to the fact that a substantial number of that group are basically violent thieves.

I'm not ashamed of anything for calling a spade a spade. What I have seen happen regularly to friends and family who previously were quite tolerant of Aboriginals, is that they are now becoming very hardened and intolerant of Aboriginals. It's not racism, it's just whites becoming sick of violent, thuggish Aboriginals.

My stepdaughter and stepson were tolerant of them until they suffered a break-in by an Aboriginal who got away with $35000 worth of jewellery, money, computers, and personal goods.
Their house was just one of dozens broken into by this thugs crime spree. His modus operandi? Kicking in the front door and helping himself. You should see how little time that pair have for Aboriginals now.

My wife was extremely tolerant of Aboriginals until we visited Katherine, Darwin, Warburton, Yarrabah - and many other places where Aboriginal violence is common and constant. She now has little time for them. You must travel around with your eyes shut, or live a very blinkered life.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 14:27

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 14:27
Ron,
While your observation of the statistics surrounding Aboriginal crime rates may be correct, your attitude will certainly do nothing to improve the situation in the future. Steve in Kakadu is quite correct calling you out on a pretty offensive post. Calling a spade a spade assumes all the spades are the same and they are not. Luckily there are smart people..err apologists, working on the problem and it will eventually be resolved. I think anyone living in the conditions prevalent in some outback/urban slum communities would react the same. It's a human condition not confined to race.
As for self defence techniques, I believe Harry Potter spells are still legal in Australia.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 14:40

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 14:40
Michael - My attitude will change when the violent criminal Aboriginals attitude to treating everyone as targets to be bashed and robbed, changes. Isn't the old Zen saying, "change comes from within"?

These people constantly reject every outside attempt to reform their behaviour. When I see some serious attitude change amongst this group to treating everyone property as theirs, and using violence to acquire it, I might be forced to change my attitude. I won't be holding my breath waiting for that.

W.A. Police Chief says "face up to Aboriginal crime".
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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 15:14

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 15:14
Ron your post speaks volumes about your racist and bigoted views, I am not an aboriginal apologist at all and I too call a spade a spade, that is why I am calling you out on your racist rant.

I have seen most of your posts and you seem to be an expert on everything, so therefore you must have the actual statistics that prove this statement.

"The facts are, that Aboriginals make up a vastly larger % of people charged with crimes of personal assault, car theft and robbery, than any other group in our nation."

But I doubt it, you will come back with some wah wah no answer speech I would expect from a politician but no actual facts.

To qualify my position, I have lived in and around aboriginal communities all my life, from Kakadu to west Arnhemland, I am considered family in this area and I am heavily involved in the joint management of Kakadu.

As I speak I have several aboriginal kids running around my house playing with my kid, my wallet is sitting on the table and I am in no fear of it going missing, some of the boys are helping me get the go kart and motor bike ready for some fun at the go kart track tomorrow, I also have a bedroom for my uncle from Gunbalanya (Oenpelli ) he stays here when he is in town, in fact he is the one of 2 people I have employed that were totally reliable.

I lent old man $3000 a few years ago to pursue his painting, he is a well respected artist in this area and he has been published as well, He paid me back ever cent without question.

I don't travel around with my eyes shut far from it and I certainly don't live a blinkered life, I can assure you though I have been (visited) many more aboriginal communities than you ever will.

Oh by the way I was in Alice over xmas I was talking to the copper at the Todd tavern and he wasn't there to stop theft he was there to stop those on the alcohol banned list, both black and white people.

There were 2 incidents while we were there, one at the Todd tavern and one at Lasseters casino, both antagonist were taken away by the police and both were white.

I am not saying that aboriginal people are saints but they are not the only race in this country that commit violent criminal acts, and this is why I am offended by your ill informed comments.
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Follow Up By: Dennis P (Bullaring. WA) - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 16:42

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 16:42
Calling a spade a spade!
Ron, you are an racist through and through.
Your comments on this thread and others in the past where you refer to 'abo's', says it all.
I, too, am a Vietnam Veteran. YOU make me ashamed.
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Follow Up By: Lionel A - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 17:03

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 17:03
Personally I don't find Ron's comments offensive, probably a little boorish. [Comes with being an old fart I suppose]...lol.
40 years around Maori and 20 years around Aboriginals has taught me to watch my back a little more than around others.

I tend to put a little more stock in life experience than facts, no matter how correct they may be.

Ron,
PC 101: Rule 1.
You may think anything you want so long as you don't say it.

Democracy 101: Rule 1.
You may say anything you want so long as you don't think it.

That's not confusing is it......lol.

Cheers.....Lionel.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 18:34

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 18:34
Don't confuse lack of political correctness and rudeness. If you say something that is likely to offend someone, then it is just plain rude. Any large Aboriginal men who may be good blokes, and there ARE plenty, would be highly offended by those comments. Therefore the comments are inappropriate and rightly regarded as offensive. Political correctness has nothing to do with good manners. If you don't believe there are any large Aboriginals who are good blokes then that is racism. Let's talk about blonde Irish women now and see who else we can offend by stereotyping.
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Follow Up By: Lionel A - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 19:48

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 19:48
Sorry Mike, I really can't see that distinction.
Are you saying that small aboriginal men would not be offended?
Respect your opinion but, it does not sway me from mine.

And I'm not here to defend Ron.

By the way, I love dumb blondes, they're my favourite kind....lol.


Cheers......Lionel.

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FollowupID: 835380

Reply By: Member - John and Val - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 12:41

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 12:41
Hi Heiner,

I assume that you are a young man from overseas preparing for a trip in outback Australia. You ask how to defend yourself against attack by people or animals.

In both cases avoidance is the best policy. In the case of animals stay well clear of crocodiles, especially salties. In the past couple of days rangers in the NT were warning people about getting too close to freshwater crocs and suggesting 15m was a minimum safe distance. That distance would be too close for a saltie. Bull camels in the mating season are also said to be dangerous - if you encounter camels on an outback track its probably best to stay in your vehicle if you are on your own - the camels will eventually move away. Wild pigs are potentially dangerous too but unless you are on foot in places where there are likely to be pigs you may never see one. Dingos will often be seen and heard at dusk and during the night - they generally wont bother you unless you are on Fraser island - and there are plenty of signs there warning you of what to do and not to do around dingos.

There are plenty of large animals out there - emus, kangaroos, cattle, wild horses, donkeys, even cassowaries, and all have given people a fright or even inflicted injury at some point. But common sense ie keeping back, reading the warning signs (the written ones and the ones that any agitated animal will give you) should keep you safe.

What you do need to be careful about is snakes and spiders. Australia has several of these that are extremely venomous. If you are out walking you have to keep your eyes open and wear appropriate clothing eg foot and leg protection in the form of boots and long pants. Carry and know how to use a snakebite kit (essentially compression bandages) to keep you alive while you call for help. Good communicatons are essential.

AS for danger from humans, I would suggest that there is more danger in Kings Cross on a Saturday night - which means there is some risk but its really quite low. Again avoidance is your best strategy. When camping alone be out of sight of the road. If camping with others be sure not to camp too close, a common mistake made by many overseas tourists. Aussies like their wide personal space and are not comfortable if it is unnecessarily invaded - pitch your tent well away from others until you get a feel of what is acceptable. Be friendly without being pushy eg give a wave, a smile and break the ice gradually.

There is an outback code that you offer assistance to anyone who looks like they might be in trouble eg have a problem with their vehicle. Unfortunately not everyone offers help and those in trouble might be cautious about someone pulling up and offering same. So do it slowly and in a relaxed manner - wind the window down and ask "are you OK?". Dont leap out waving a spanner about - that might be mininterpreted!

Alcohol and drugs are certainly out there in the bush/outback/remote. Its really up to you to be aware and avoid or at least weigh up your options if you decide to partake. If you are travelling on your own there would seem to be little point in taking physical action as any adversary would probably have a few mates around. Your best course of action is to be aware of your surroundings and stay clear if there is any hint of trouble.

In travelling in all parts of Australia, including in remote areas over the past 25 years we have only had a couple of incidents where we felt a bit concerned - and neither ended up causing us any real problem.

Have a great trip.

Cheers

Val.
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein

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AnswerID: 549601

Reply By: noggins - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 13:35

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 13:35
I have found on one occasion the fire extinguisher was a good deterrent. The threat of ''accidental discharge and blindness" was just a little too much for that small group.

Mind you I did hightail it outa there Very Quickly after that.



ZZ
AnswerID: 549604

Reply By: 843 - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 14:06

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 14:06
l think heiner has a right to be scared,
have you all forgotten that drop bears can cut up pretty rough when you invade their terrroity?
and then there's the savage... and.... horrid bunyip,
and how can you possibly outrun the dreaded hoop snake....

and then there's Mick Taylor to contend with as well....

we're all doomed
AnswerID: 549608

Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 14:22

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 14:22
If you feel the urge for a weapon for safety however don't want to break the law, keeping a tyre spanner or long handled ratchet next to your drivers seat may be an option.... quite legitimate to keep it handy for changing tyres, they also make a good club.




AnswerID: 549611

Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 16:10

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 16:10
Scott

The problem with your response is in the first part of the sentence...

"If you feel the urge for a weapon for safety....."

It is not the item that deems it a weapon, it is the intent with which the item is used.

An innocuous item, for example a rolled up newspaper, becomes a weapon when used against another person.

While the items you mention may be "quite legitimate to keep it handy for changing tyres, they also make a good club." clearly shows that one becomes the other and also the intent involved.

As mentioned by others - a quite approach, simple request and tactical retreat are less likely to get you into to trouble.

Cheers

Anthony
VKS 3539
Work - a 40 hour interuption to my weekend!
Too many places - too little time

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FollowupID: 835015

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 00:41

Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 00:41
Anthony, couldn't agree more. Violence is the last resort. Wouldn't use a weapon myself, however in response to some of the posts above about knives, baseball bats etc. I was just suggesting if you feel the need for a bit of extra security without breaking the law, the a tyre wrench fits the bill.
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FollowupID: 835041

Reply By: AlanTH - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 19:54

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 19:54
If you want and the cook will allow you to, roll up her latest shiny paper mag very tightly and poke an attacker hard in the face and twist it..... then the cook beats hell out of you because the blood covers the story she was about to read!
AlanH.
AnswerID: 549637

Reply By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 20:04

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 20:04
If you go on U tube and type in Mick Taylor Wolfe Creek.

Supposedly based on a true incident.

(;=))

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 549638

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 20:54

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 20:54
Buy a dog.........a big dog!

Or a little dog with a deep voice.

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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AnswerID: 549641

Reply By: Idler Chris - Vic - Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 23:55

Sunday, Mar 08, 2015 at 23:55
There is lots of advice here on what to do during the day time. At night the best solution is a Roof Top Tent. I get a great nights sleep every night knowing I am safe. Anybody climbing my ladder at night with evil intentions will wear a tyre lever in the face as soon as they poke their head in. Animals don't climb ladders so I do not worry about them.
What other people think of me is none of my business.
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

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AnswerID: 549653

Reply By: Member - Heiner B (INT) - Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 07:28

Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 07:28
Hi @all,

now i'm amused and tranquilized :)
Now i know i dont need any of the "weapons" above.
And if i get in trouble i will make me nudely and all attacker will run away screaming :)

Some ask about my planed trip:
Starting @ the end of April Perth, CSR with friends to halls creek, after that 8-9 month absolute freedom (maybe Cape York, Darwin, Kimberleys, ... don't know yet :) ).

Cheers
Heiner
AnswerID: 549654

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 08:21

Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 08:21
Enjoy your trip, it sounds wonderful

Seriously the biggest threat to your safety will be yourself.
Prepare yourself and vehicle correctly , use lots of common sense and carry appropriate communication devises to be able to call on assistance if needed.
You are far more likely to have an incident in one of the larger cities or be involved in a car accident than encountering a problem in remote Australia

Enjoy
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FollowupID: 835048

Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Vic - Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 19:09

Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 19:09
Well said Alby and spot on. (Spot on is Aussie slang for 100% correct)
What other people think of me is none of my business.
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

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FollowupID: 835081

Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:49

Tuesday, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:49
Actually, what is most interesting, is the psychological reaction from being alone in remote areas. This factor is one that is hard to understand for those of us who come from an Australian rural or Outback upbringing.

In Europe - and in the major Australian cities, being totally alone in a large area is a concept that many people cannot grasp - it often generates irrational fear when encountered.

It seems that the Outback of Australia is a real magnet for European people who have never experienced being in a vast area within no-one around for maybe dozens or even hundreds of kms.

I'm musing on this because of past personal experiences and studying up on historical stories.

In the early 1950's, Bell Brothers, who were pioneering trucking contractors in Western Australia, took on the job of transporting manganese ore from Woodie Woodie to Port Hedland.
In the early 1950's, Port Hedland was an Outback frontier town - and the Woodie Woodie mine was effectively located in the most lonely semi-desert country of Outback W.A.

The road from Pt Hedland to Woodie Woodie was basically just a track through semi-desert country - and it was rare to see anyone for days and days at a time.
Bell Bros truck drivers had to be resourceful and psychologically suited to meet the working conditions.
If their truck broke down, it could be days before anyone was sent out to find them.
Communications were non-existent, Bell Bros weren't interested in fitting communications to their vehicles such as two-way radios.
The drivers set off on a run, and that was it, they were on their own.

Naturally, Bell Bros had great difficulty finding (and keeping) truck drivers for this job. The job involved extreme heat, no air-conditioning, constant dust, extremely rough roads - and extreme loneliness.

Apparently, it was not unusual for Bells to hire a truck driver from Perth - and when he broke down on the Woodie Woodie Rd, and the Bell Bros rescue crew didn't turn up for several days - the rescue crew often found a truck driver who was on the verge of a mental breakdown, due to the loneliness, the stillness, and the isolation.

I've spent long periods working on my own in very remote areas without suffering from mental trauma - and I can understand anyone who hasn't been brought up in a rural or remote area suffering from psychological shock at the isolation and loneliness, when confronted with a vehicle breakdown in a remote area - and the knowledge that it may be days before one sees another person.

I used to be an agricultural earthmoving contractor in an early part of my career - and myself, family, and employees would often camp out on the job sites in caravans, so that we could get as much work done in daylight hours without wasted excessive travelling times.

A number of times, I set up new operator employees (who had come from the city), in caravans on the job site.
In several cases, those employees suffered near-mental breakdowns when left alone at night in caravans in the isolated rural areas - even just in farm back paddocks.

I was quite surprised at these blokes suffering from this effect - but it was all due to the fact that it was a totally new and frightening experience for them, and they were overwhelmed with fear about "what might be out there in the dark"!

It's an interesting subject, and I guess that deep down, everyone has a fear of being totally alone and abandoned - and perhaps it's a throwback to an experience as a child, when one was accidentally left alone somewhere, or thought they were being left behind.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 835123

Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Vic - Tuesday, Mar 10, 2015 at 12:34

Tuesday, Mar 10, 2015 at 12:34
What you say Ron is very interesting and not well known. I come from the city but love the remoteness and isolation. Only last year, days from anywhere it rained so I just stayed put for a week while it dried out, no problems. Got to do some reading, organise my photo's, do some trip planning, crosswords etc. However I have been on 4WD Club trips with people who totally freaked out on the isolation of being far from civilisation. Because it did not happen to me I did not understand until I actually saw it. I suppose it is a phobia maybe autophobia or isolophobia. Very interesting.
What other people think of me is none of my business.
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FollowupID: 835131

Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Tuesday, Mar 10, 2015 at 13:37

Tuesday, Mar 10, 2015 at 13:37
Very interesting observations Ron.

Part of the problem may also be the silence. A few years back I was part of a group of mostly city folk on a cultural awareness course run by some indigenous folk. The trainers wanted us to understand how aboriginals related to the land so they led us on a hike up a mountainside, pointing out things of interest along the way. That was fine, there was the usual amount of chatter that you get on a bushwalk. Then we came to a big rock ledge where we were asked to sit down and listen to the sounds of the bush. Some people found that pretty hard to do, and even harder was the next bit where we had to lie down on the rock and really listen to the sounds in the earth. Some people (maybe half the group) just could not quieten down enough to listen, they had to keep talking, anything to make a familiar sound. I often notice when out in the bush, (where I like to listen) it is quite common to find others will talk incessantly, maybe simply for reassurance.

That outback silence is pretty amazing, especially if there is no wind. But I can see that those who are not used to it could find it quite daunting and overwhelming

Cheers,

Val
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein

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FollowupID: 835132

Follow Up By: The Landy - Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 09:30

Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 09:30
I have grown up in the city (whoops, never grown-up), lived in a city of varying sizes most of my life, but more than happy to be out in the isolation of a desert, side of a snow covered mountain,or jungle, by myself.

I think you learn to become comfortable with that, rather than necessarily born at ease with it.

As a kid I didn’t like the dark, until I confronted it, and these days we are best mates.

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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FollowupID: 835174

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:02

Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:02
My wife and I are the same, born and bred in the city.

My first trip to the remoteness of central Australia just captivated the both of us.I got back from a Simpson crossing and 6 weeks later jumped in my car and had to go back there again and have visited the area twice a year since.

Can't explain what it is but it just grabs you but I can understand why some people would not understand.

Friends often ask me why we keep going there and what do you do when you get there and are puzzled by the answer of 'we do nothing, it is just a magical experience'

It has had such an effect on us that we are now in the process of packing our bags and leaving the city for the country to live permanently.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 835177

Reply By: Member - mark D18 - Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 11:42

Monday, Mar 09, 2015 at 11:42
Heiner

You have nothing to worry about . Just enjoy the travelling.
As someone said , fly's will be your biggest problem.


Cheers
AnswerID: 549662

Reply By: john m85 - Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 09:20

Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 09:20
did you watch wolf creek
AnswerID: 549755

Reply By: get outmore - Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:43

Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:43
havnt read through all the replys but im guessing most are similar to my respose which is Huh? what

anyway my recomendtion is a maglight
doesnt have to be 6 battery 4 will do.
If anything dodgy goes bump in the middle of the night it ticks all the boxes
- it illuminates the area so you can see whats going on
- this will scare most animals you dont want around like dogs etc, and reveal the prescence of creepy crawlys
- if the prescence is human then they would normally run in the prescense of light
- you can shine it in thier eyes if they choose to face you so they are blinded and cant size you up
- if crap really goes down then you are holding some form of weapon

AnswerID: 549761

Follow Up By: get outmore - Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:44

Wednesday, Mar 11, 2015 at 10:44
oh and of course having a torch at hand is just darn right very handy for any one of 100000 reasons not related to midnight atackers :) so you dont need to do anything special
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FollowupID: 835179

Reply By: get outmore - Thursday, Mar 12, 2015 at 12:59

Thursday, Mar 12, 2015 at 12:59
do you honestly think a weapon can help you in this situation??????

AnswerID: 549831

Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Mar 12, 2015 at 13:03

Thursday, Mar 12, 2015 at 13:03
certainly not here either!!!

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FollowupID: 835240

Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Mar 12, 2015 at 13:04

Thursday, Mar 12, 2015 at 13:04
or here :(
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FollowupID: 835241

Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 13:15

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 13:15
And, of course, these scenarios are absolutely real and not made up at all!

Seriously, anyone who relies on movies (even those "based" on real events) as evidence for anything has lost the plot! A movie is entertainment - nothing to do with reality!
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FollowupID: 835347

Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 13:23

Saturday, Mar 14, 2015 at 13:23
there not movies - thier documenteries!!!

the first aussie film i saw that scared the crap outa me was long weekend from the late 70s although i reckon it made it too the local cinemas more early 80s :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Weekend_(1978_film)
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FollowupID: 835348

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