eu20i surging

Submitted: Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 14:45
ThreadID: 130884 Views:5091 Replies:11 FollowUps:17
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My honda eu20i is not running well. It was perfect until stored for six months with fuel in it. I have tried putting couple of tanks of premium. Wynns fuel additive. And partial stripped and cleaned jet of carburetor and sprayed everytthing with carburetor cleaner. It does run ok with 1/4 choke. Does harm engin to run with choke? Whats next. As it has been replaced as main genny by new eu30i dont want to spend much.

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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 15:07

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 15:07
I fit runs ok on choke that would indicate it is running lean.

Check fusl filter is clean, check breather is ok check float level
if it has a float and anyother jets you may have missed.

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AnswerID: 592684

Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 15:07

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 15:07
PS I'm assuming you have fresh fuel in it too.

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Follow Up By: gbc - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 21:00

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 21:00
Classic sign of a blocked needle (hence leaning out) in the carby from leaving fuel in it. Our Honda outboard did the same thing. Not saying your problem is found, but the symptoms are similar.
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Follow Up By: Phil 23 - Saturday, Nov 14, 2015 at 07:42

Saturday, Nov 14, 2015 at 07:42
Not of complete relevance, but do you have a Service Manual?

I know it won't fix the issue, but always handy to have.

Let me know if you'd like one.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Capt. Wrongway - Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 16:34

Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 16:34
Had the same problem with my 1k Honda. Bad fuel. Had to pull the carby apart and clean it out. No problems after that.

Capt.
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Reply By: GerryG - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 16:25

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 16:25
Ian, I only run 95 octane in any small 4 strokes as I've had problems with 91 octane, Opal (from the territory) and these 10% ethanol mixes. This includes two strokes.
AnswerID: 592688

Reply By: swampy - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 16:27

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 16:27
hi
have to soak carburetor in industrial injector cleaner [purchase in 5 lt container] . Leave over night and blow out with compressed air .U may require carburetor number drills to poke in the holes to clear the gel/sludge.
Sounds like its time to clean out fuel tank ,fuel lines ,check fuel cap breather etc etc
Use a fuel preserver next time u store it . I use this for all my stay at home petrol powerered equipment .
Running on choke indicates it running lean most likely by a blocked jet .Never ever leave choke on to help run a machine .
1 washes cylinder bores with fuel ,no lube causing excessive wear
2 extra fuel dilutes sump oil causing wear

swampy
AnswerID: 592689

Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 13:54

Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 13:54
Swampy is spot on with his advice. "Carburettor & Throttle Body Cleaner" in a spray can from any automotive spares shop is magic stuff to clean out carburettors and injectors.
Tiny orifices in carburettors regularly get blocked by gum, varnish and dust - that combined, make a nasty mix.
I spent a couple of days trying to find the source of a carburettor blockage in a Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engine, belonging to my old Italian neighbour Barney.
It wasn't until I found a cunningly-hidden carburettor orifice that was completely blocked, and which I cleaned out with a dose of C&TBC, that the Briggs started to purr like a new one again.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 860913

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 18:58

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 18:58
Ian,

It is obvious to me that a skilled Honda mechanic is required.
Take it to a Honda dealer for a service.

Sometimes we just can't do everything ourselves!
Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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AnswerID: 592697

Follow Up By: Ross M - Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 12:17

Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 12:17
What makes you think a Honda mechanic is better or more qualified than any other person who knows about how a carburettor works?
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Reply By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 19:54

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 19:54
May I ask what you are using it to run?...because if it for example plugged into a caravan /camper inlet and inturn running a battery charger then it may not be fuel at all.........assuming the "not running well" is perhaps not fuel?

My reason is the following: My Honda 2uoi was hunting when plugged into the caravan inlet........it was charging the in-house batteries through the 5 stage "intelligent" 240 v on-board charger....we had 4 cloudy days and the solar panels needed some help to top up the caravan batteries.

The damn thing (new 'van and new Honda) drove me nuts and I blamed the Genny. So in the middle of nowhere I stripped the new carby etc and despite what I did it still hunted.

Eventually I discovered that the caravan charger's sophisticated electronics was conflicting with the Honda outlets and the damn genny got conflicting signals and therefore hunted, raced, ran rough etc.

Upon further investigation I discovered a switch on the caravan charger for supply/charge

It was on Charge. I switched to supply and the Honda settled down pushing out 240 smooth as.

Life is a journey, it is not how we fall down, it is how we get up.
VKS 1341

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AnswerID: 592701

Follow Up By: Slow one - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 20:40

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 20:40
Yes it is a problem with electronically controlled gensets and gear that is electronically controlled running off them. Some soft start bore pumps and transfer pumps have the same problem running off gensets and a special card has to be used for the pump to work.

For the OP. One thing about the problem is. The honda manual states, the fuel should be drained if the genset is not in use. I never have a problem, as I drain mine until I need it again.



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FollowupID: 860866

Reply By: Member - Ian T6 - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 21:25

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 21:25
Yes on the fuel i was slack and now paying for it. Not the load currently testing on fan heater. Honda service tech was one who suggested trying couple of tanks of premium and also suggested only running on premium. Will try soaking carburetor. If that doesnt work will have pay for service or just sell it as is. Was hoping for miracle cure.

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AnswerID: 592708

Reply By: craigandej - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 22:40

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 22:40
If you're a bit handy this worked for me...



Fuel has gummed up in the carby jets.

Cheers
AnswerID: 592711

Follow Up By: craigandej - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 22:41

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 22:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njNMxlNseRg

Link didn't embed sorry.
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Reply By: Member - Trevor_H - Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 22:57

Friday, Nov 13, 2015 at 22:57
Common problem with build up of varnish in the idle jet.
There are a couple of You Tube videos that detail the fix.
I had the same problem with my eu10i. Took a bit of work to clean the jet, but now runs fine.
Now I drain the bowl whenever I put it away, even if I think I'm going to use it within a week.
AnswerID: 592712

Reply By: Stone Stomper - Saturday, Nov 14, 2015 at 06:54

Saturday, Nov 14, 2015 at 06:54
Ours sometimes does this so I fill up with fresh fuel and use a house hold room heater one of those small cheap ones on high for a while (2000w) and make the genny work hard for a while and normally clears it out.

Christian
AnswerID: 592714

Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 16:40

Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 16:40
just as a matter of interest are you now trying to run it on high octane?

lots of people seem tho think this is a good idea ....BUT ... if your engine is not fuel injected or has been retuned (rejeted and or retimed) to suit the high octane fuel it may not run well.

I too thaught high octane was a smart idea and had all sorts of trouble with various machines ..... my brushcutter and chian saws would not idle and where hard to start, .my mowers just did not seem right.
went back to standard unleaded and all the problems went away.

probably not the source of the problem at hand but something to think about.

cheers
AnswerID: 592753

Follow Up By: swampy - Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 17:03

Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 17:03
hi
My local stihl/ Briggs agent does not warrant if customer has been using it .[Briggs thinks it is the cause of melted pistons etc ] Ya kidding !! [nothing to do with these engines running leaner as they get older .]Did I mention that briggs exhaust valve heads fall off but of course this is the fuel you used !!!!!!!!!!
This is complete opposite to what fuel companies mention . As we all no the higher octane recipe resists detonation more effectively in an engine that needs it .
Typically an engine that has more static and dynamic compression .Both of these are influence by many factors cam timing ,ignition timing and etc etc
The higher octane fuel also contains a very high level of cleaning agent .

swampy
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FollowupID: 860921

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 17:23

Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 17:23
not particularly exited about Briggs any time ..... serioulsy don't get me started.

But I have experiences Sthil and Honda motors being hard to start and failing to idle when run on high octane fuels.

cheers
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FollowupID: 860922

Follow Up By: swampy - Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 19:25

Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 19:25
hi Bantam
Every one has a story but agree on the Briggs .
The vanguard series is the best and only to consider which is ok [engine block is MItsubishi with chinese small parts ] but there top rings exhaust valve carburetors are rubbish.
Honda stationary motors are ok but nothing spectacular . They can still have some issues .
There generators are ok but not worth the dollars if there asking around 1200-1300$ maybe
Stihl products are above average except much of there hand held equipment destroys/burns out ignition coils regularly. There early 4 stroke hand held stuff had many problems also . There later hand held gear is great .
All of these brands luv to be >>>fully>>>> serviced regularly clean new fuel top of the list .
This includes valve adjustment ,fuel tank clean ,decarbon clean out as required , governor check /adjust etc etc ,calibrate high and low speeds etc etc . In my exp. they respond well to lots of TLC. A little high maintenance /touchy in my opinion

Once they all start to loose a little compression and get a bit of wear this makes them become tempremental after about 2 yrs of good work use

I use high octane fuel in all my home based stuff and it runs well . Mainly to take advantage of the cleaners in the fuel . Most pieces i have donot start the first time. The stihl chainsaw is a f...ker since new .

That reminds me I have to run up all my gear .
Small engine varies a great deal between people its amazing.

swampy
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FollowupID: 860927

Follow Up By: Slow one - Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 19:45

Sunday, Nov 15, 2015 at 19:45
I don't understand this as I have a stihl whipper snipper, Honda genset and briggs and stratton powered mower all running on 95 ron. All of these have never given any problems with the exception of the briggs and stratton, that I replaced the output oil seal on.

Mower engine 12 years old and the previous one 24 years old before the mower fell apart.
Honda EU20I 8 years old.
Stihl tow cutter 6 years old.

I don't see any mention off maximum fuel octane rating in the manuals but I do see a bit about ethanol. In fact a lot about it.
There can be a fuel mix adjustment on some small engines due to the octane rating but also remember the yanks have a different calculation for their octane rating

All that seems to keep them running well is. Clean fuel, clean air and draining the fuel in both the Honda. I don't even throw the 95 ron out during winter as I hit it with fuel stabiliser. With the fuel stabiliser in the 95 ron 2 stroke mix for the tow cutter, I leave that in over winter and it starts first go, the same as the Honda and the mower.


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FollowupID: 860928

Follow Up By: swampy - Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 03:17

Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 03:17
hi Bantam
As I luv fooling around with small engines was it B&S vanguard series engine u were having trouble with or one of there intek or smaller versions ??
The vanny I call them is what I no the most about, but the inteks and others are only a cheap copy of the vanguard series . In saying that the Vanguards are not perfect either .
Interested

I do smallish engines because building real motors is so dam expensive ha ha

swampy
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FollowupID: 860938

Follow Up By: swampy - Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 03:32

Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 03:32
hi to all
If your hand held gear or otherwise is fitted with carburetor mixture limit caps remove to tune when both hot and cold then reinstall them . [The limit caps only give 3/4 turn available].
Be careful as u can damage the cap and or the needle. Reinstalling the caps can stop the needles coming out of adjustment and prevents the needle from completely falling out.

swampy
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FollowupID: 860939

Follow Up By: Slow one - Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:48

Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:48
I should have added that I always drain the Honda as per manufacturers manual when not in use.
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FollowupID: 860940

Follow Up By: Phil 23 - Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 07:23

Monday, Nov 16, 2015 at 07:23
Ditto what Slow One said above about RON 95.

Only difference in the Honda Slf Propelled is now 21 yesrs old,
The EU10i 15 years when I sold it & still running fine.
68cc Husky saw is 23.
36cc trimmer is 26.

All have spent their lives run on 95 Octane.
2 Strokes on 50:1 with synthetic oil.

Spark plug replacements on all my equipment has been few & far between.
Won't say the same for engine oil, I've always considered it cheap maintenance.

Cheers
1
FollowupID: 860942

Reply By: Member - Ian T6 - Wednesday, Nov 18, 2015 at 14:05

Wednesday, Nov 18, 2015 at 14:05
Success! !!!! First of all thank you everyone for advice. Several things I should impart. Fuel.. honda tech says premium fuel will do no harm. Sanderson tech says it will burn valves both are experts. I trust sanderson tech mainly because of other very knowledgeable things. Sanderson tech pointed out hidden jet under idle adjustment screw.. black plastic on top of carburetor and even gave me tiny bit of stainless wire to clear it. Also gave flat quote of $150 to fix if my cleaning didnt fix. Honda would only give hourly rate.
Anyone in Perth I highly recommend sanderson on Main st Osbourne for repair or puchase of honda or yamaha

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AnswerID: 592847

Follow Up By: gbc - Wednesday, Nov 18, 2015 at 15:01

Wednesday, Nov 18, 2015 at 15:01
I am pretty sure that the only reason single strand game fishing trace wire was invented was for cleaning out Honda jets haha. Glad to see you had success.
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FollowupID: 861018

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