Seat and can of worms

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 04, 2016 at 21:50
ThreadID: 131550 Views:3725 Replies:13 FollowUps:40
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Hi I own a Hilux Dual Cab.Was goin to buy Dmax but Salesman playing silly buggers.Have owned 2 Landcruisers. Ideal with L.C .was take back seats out and have plenty storage.Or just take half a row out.Reason I went for Dmax yes cheap but liked the split rear folding seats.Low and behold Hilux have a crappy backseat that takes up hidden space and only folds in half upwards creating really no more space..So I have a child now and a wifey.Child needs the car seat still .I have removed back seat completely, easy job for dumby like me.So now I NEED ADVICE what can I set up so I can use the child seat in the back.I have heard it is legal as long as original seat can be put back in ...correct me if wrong ?..Its amazing the space now could nearly fit double mattress in back now.I am South Auusie dont hold thst against me ...
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Reply By: Jackolux - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 00:38

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 00:38
What , you have removed the rear seat but still want to put a child seat in , is that right ?
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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:25

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:25
Jackolux yes that right.I think .i will find suitable single seat to fit then it will.at least look legal..
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:54

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:54
Sorry!

I am absolutely gob smacked at what you intend to do. Remove the factory seat and install a child restraint!

"i will find suitable single seat to fit then it will.at least look legal.."

The factory seat that a child restraint is attached to is integral in the seats ability to absorb impact and protect a child in the event of an accident. Removing a factory seat and installing a single seat "that will at least look legal" is absolutely reckless to say the least.

Stephen, this is absolutely "your" choice. Unfortunately, your child doesn't have one.

I have always been a risk taker, but it has always been my risk not others.

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:20

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:20
ACD I agree totally with what you saying off course I not risk my sons life but maybe there is Engineering firm with the ability to do a job that complies with the law.Modifications to vehicles have been done before.Just maybe this type is rare..
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 22:04

Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 22:04
Its all legal and can be done .Put a new single seat in .Costs a fair bit though m..
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Reply By: Sigmund - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 07:29

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 07:29
I read somewhere on the Internet - so of course it's true - that you can legally remove seats only temporarily.
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Reply By: Bushranger1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 07:53

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 07:53
G'day Stephen,
Having owned vehicles for a very long time & worked alongside the automotive industry for many years common sense would tell me that a child seat is designed to work IN CONJUNCTION with a standard automotive seat.
I would under no circumstance use a child seat as a "stand alone" as it seems you wish to do.

Cheers
Stu
AnswerID: 595931

Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:22

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:22
Hi Bushranger1 thinking find suitable single seat ..or be easier buy Landcruiser but 8nvested too much now in Hilux ...thanks
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:47

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:47
G'day Stephen,
Owned various Hiluxes for years. Great vehicle.
I used car seats for the kids in mine so I am puzzled as to why you need to modify the rear seating to accommodate this?
Cheers
stu
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Follow Up By: Dion - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:13

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:13
If I am understanding this correctly, Stephen F2 wants to remove the full width bench seat out of the rear of the Hilux and replace with a Single seat, to which the childs seat will be attached. I haven't read that the child seat will be used as a stand alone (and nor should it!).

By installing a single seat in the rear in lieu of the bench seat, it creates full floor to roof storage space for about 1/2 - 2/3 the width.

I don't actually think that it is a bad idea, however finding a suitable single seat that can be correctly attached to the rear floor of the Hilux I think would be very very challenging, both from a practical installation point of view, and having it certified.
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:19

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:19
Hopefully this "project" will also consider the installation of a suitable ADR approved cargo barrier to protect the child from wayward luggage that is stored next them in the now available space.

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: TomH - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:38

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:38
I would think that would be illegal as well

Imagine car on side starting to burn kid on bottom side of cargo barrier preventing getting him/her out.

Or side accident and kids side door jammed shut.
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:48

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:48
I really don't understand the logic of this dangerous modification?

We travelled Australia for 2 years to VERY remote places in a Dual cab Hilux with 2 kids & had plenty of room for spare fuel & water.
We had a roof rack but only had a small amount of light items up there.

Stephen I think you need to look at you camping inventory & cull some of the things you are taking!
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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 11:14

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 11:14
Hi Bushranger1so far I have stirred up huge issue here.I agree with everyone.But surely nothing is impossible as vehicles have been modified legally before..But I have to say your comments have been most practical .and sensible.
Yes I have to rethink my inventory.But can I ask how much water you carry and how.I know you can buy bladder to.put behind backseat That was my original method of storage .Wow you must have it well sorted to travel with 2 kids.I could cull my wife and son but the trip is to show them Oz I already seen quite a bit .Cheers thanks for good advice anything else would be great to make more easy my trip...be appreciated
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 11:14

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 11:14
My point exactly Tom.

I was being facetious when I suggested the need for a cargo barrier.

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 12:46

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 12:46
Hi Stephen,
Hmm not a good idea to leave those things behind!
We had a 60 litre tank underneath & a couple of spare drums of water as well.
We all have cast iron stomachs so we just topped up the water from wells rivers etc at every opportunity. Even got some water that tasted a bit strange then found a very dead roo in the bottom of the well!
Didn't get sick thought.
Best thing is do a couple of test trips first then you will find items you can cull & things that need modification.
Make a list then address these issues before the next short try out trip.
Cheers
Stu.
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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:01

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:01
Thanks Bushranger1 I had that experience working in bush,water looked like brown milk and later discovered a dead horse.But worst was our company would purchase cheap water from Moomba gas plant my god it stunk and tasted of chemicals ..Wondering did you carry fridge ? Your kids must be well rounded and lucky to see Aus. Did you have to do any schooling Thanks Steve
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:51

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:51
Yea some of the water we got was pretty average too.
Had an Engel fridge & total of 3 batteries on board.
We tend not to stay in the same place for days so all charging was done by the car Alternator.

I did build some cupboards in the back of the Lux to keep everything in order. If you do make sure you screw & glue every joint so they don't shake to bits & use top quality hinges & latches or the wont stand up to the trip.

As for education used Victorian distance education. Supposed to do a few hours per day but just saved up the work & when we found a top spot just worked at it with the kids & caught up on it.

Cheers
Stu
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:55

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:55
One other thing.
If you wire up extra batteries use high voltage terminals then solder & shrink wrap every terminal wire joint.
Never had had any issues with voltage drop or broken wires unlike lots of people with dodgy dual battery installations we have met over the years!
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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 14:36

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 14:36
So much to organise and appreciate all your advice .Easy when single had big Landcruisers ripped seats out could sleep inside in bad weather..too easy..Just another question lot of debate on batteries here too . What are you using ? And not to g8ve any secrets away what are some nice what camping spots around Oz I found a few in WA and NT but that back in 97 to 2000 but did trip Qld 2007 and found some nice camp spots which surprised me... cheers Steve
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 15:32

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 15:32
"so much to organise" That's for sure.

We travel solo and do most of our trips to remote area destinations, so we need to carry all those extras that people share across convoys. Didn't see another human in five days driving across the Madigan Line. So we can't just sit and wait for help to get out of a bog etc.

You were talking about water. We have a dual fuel and water Long Ranger tank under the car where the spare was. It holds 55 litres of water, and we supplement it with 20 litre plastic water containers in the back. The spares are on the rear bar. Setting the car up and packing it is a continuous exercise. And then we take one or two Grandkids to complicate things. Arrggghh

We have also purchased several things and discarded them, not to be taken again. It happens. For example the exhaust bag jack. A cumbersome package. Not taking it again But I will find something to fill the space, you bet you left knacka on that one!!

Phil
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 16:09

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 16:09
Ruby Gap in the East Macdonnell Range is very nice. Pretty remote though as is the old grave we found overlooking Ruby gap.
The walk to Glen Annie Gorge is amazing & the acoustics in the Gorge make it a very special place. Some say you can drive to Glen Annie but reckon you would give the car a hard time.

We stayed a while longer camped there as water can be had by digging in the dry river bed near a rocky bend. Good water too. Much better than all the bore water around.
Lots of places we find by taking our time & getting local info also jot down details of places you read about & see the locals to get to them.

Another place will love is Northern NSW In the Great dividing range. Heaps of remote camp spots if you get off the beaten track but look out for heavy rain!

As for battery I use deep cycle lead acid with diode isolator but I have few electronics in the old Lux. That will all change when we upgrade shortly.

Cheers
Stu
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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 22:08

Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 22:08
Hi Stu new seat can be done legally I found out but off course they want an arm and leg for it .cheers Stephen ..
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Follow Up By: Bushranger1 - Sunday, Feb 07, 2016 at 08:42

Sunday, Feb 07, 2016 at 08:42
G'day Stephen,
If it were me I would use the money you save not doing the mods to spend a longer time away!
Cheers
Stu
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Feb 07, 2016 at 09:24

Sunday, Feb 07, 2016 at 09:24
And leave the kid/s home. Nah . . . Not likely Stu.

Phil
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Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 08:16

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 08:16
The child restraints in vehicles are designed to be used with the original seat. If you wish to have anything else you will have to get it designed, approved and installed. There is no simpler way to go than that.


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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:07

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 10:07
Hi NN interesting as the child seat is just used with seat belt there are no restraints as such.I will have to find someone who can fit a single seat and get it approved legally.The Dmax has split seats so if I owned one and took half out then it would be ok as still a seat for child seat.Hilux back seat is just so impractical useless .Only good for carting small people around ...cheers
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 19:10

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 19:10
I believe it's not ok if you have to use tools to remove the seat, in which case it has be inspected.

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Reply By: swampy - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:25

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:25
hi ,
Mounting a child seat by not using the original seats and seat belts is illegal .The ADR rules apply here to seats, seat mountings ,seat belts and there mountings. A child seat needs to be mounted as per makers instructions .
If u still want to change u can consult an engineer and get a report /ruling on the matter .After doing this u will get an idea of costs and processes .
Interfering with an ADR designed component will make the insurance void in the case of an accident unless re engineered and approved .
After spending 30 years changing vehicles many many rules applied by govt can be changed or considered bullsh*t. Changes are considered modifications Commonsense applies here .Some do require engineer reports .
ADR changes require engineer reports 99% time
Many "" modification rules"" are way way different from state to state and cause grief when travelling and transfering rego
Bonnet scoops are now acceptable considering they come from the factory.
Even if they were installed correctly in the 1970-1980s it comes down to the police or road transport inspector . If there is doubt u are defected . I cannot to begin to describe to u what police harassment is like especially when they are not fully aware of the rules .
Certain vehicles I own have there glove boxes full of paper work .Consultations with the police every 100kms becomes annoying after a while .Police are just untrained drones in this area of there job. Modifications can attract much unwanted attention even if it is legal
.swampy
AnswerID: 595939

Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:57

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:57
Not only will insurance be void...

...any injury to the child will result in criminal charges (not traffic infringement).

Cheers

Anthony
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Reply By: vk1dx - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:55

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 09:55
Like said above, you will have to get a non-standard solution engineered by an RTA approved engineer. I don't think that you will get one to do it for you though. We got our GVM upgraded but that's not mucking around with child approved seat mounts etc. I believe that most would steer away from that type of job. Too many legal consequences.

Look for a Toyota factory approved option. If one exists then that may be fine.

Personally I think that you will have to put the original seat back in and mount the childs seat on it. Bit of a bugger though. However every child is worth doing the right thing for.

Phil
AnswerID: 595941

Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 11:40

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 11:40
Thanks vk 1dx looks like wil have to just reorganize and just put it back.But like they say nothing impossible.So will pursue legal way .Have contacted Toyota see what they say and a couple vehicle engineers...Just not practical design for vehicle built 2010..The Dmax much more thought put into it.Other small cars have incredible seats that create space when folded My mates 2 door Yaris is like the Tardis ..cheers
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 12:15

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 12:15
The traps that you can fall into when "personalising" you vehicle or when a "little" bundle comes along. Been there done that. Now it's your turn.

When we went for the GVM upgrade, because we were going to get a strict inspection over the pits, we had to get the registration changed to read a five seater because the drawer system in the back, that is securely bolted down, was not easily removed to allow the third row to simply click back in place. We can't go back to a seven seater now unless we go over the pits.

We thought that we could pass as is. But the engineer picked it up and all is well and legal. It wasn't an issue really as we never travel with more than four.

At least we are legal and with insurance covere with a "fitted" set of drawers and "heavy" car. It would take a day to take the drawers out and refit the extra row of seats.

You will find a solution and one that suits the family. We did, when we had our first son back in 1971.

Catchya

Phil.
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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 12:25

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 12:25
Thanks vk1dx my bundle is now 5 and half and half Thai.In Thailand safety and law nearly non existant. Ironically my Hilux made near my wifes house maybe I should have visited factory and told them to build a more practical backseat .. Opposite here bit of overkill sometimes on vehicle mods ..cheers
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:25

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:25
Factory extras!! Missed one there. You could have asked for a lift, tyres, OME suspension etc etc.

Phil

And when the family grows up 4WD family trips.

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Reply By: Member - Noah273 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:04

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:04
This is what Multidrive did with their Southern Scorpion 6 wheeler 70 series, road legal as It was listed for sale some months back, not hard to imagine one seat less in the picture. Check the suitability ofParadrive as to child restraints of course.

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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:11

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:11
Thanks Noah273 all not lost then as many people here think impossible but not count my chickens yet.Personally I think my child seat would be a hell of a lot safer in aseat like in your photo ..thanks
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:33

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 13:33
Looks good. This may be your answer Stephen.

If you want to only fit one seat in the back, then you may want to check what the registration and insurance implications are with only three seats in the car, when it is registered as a four or five seater. Just saying that it's only temporarily removed, may not hold any weight with any RTA inspector, the police or insurance assessor.

I would hate to hear that your insurance company dumped your claim because the car wasn't legal. Yeah - that bloody word again, but as a parent . . . . . . etc

Phil
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Reply By: Zippo - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 15:55

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 15:55
Stephen, after all the other responses have been absorbed, a question remains.

If you were happy to buy a DMax until salesman's antics put you off, why not try another st\\dealership?
AnswerID: 595958

Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 19:15

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 19:15
What happened was I drove a 2 wheel drive Hilux all up remote parts of Thailand and I enjoyed driving it except the manual gearbox as there is a stretch in mountains with over 3000 corners drove me nuts having to change gearss every 2 seconds .We did 6000 kms all up.So when I came back I bought 1 with all the mods done on it .Ironically my mate lives in Thailand and got new Dmax 2 wheel drive 2.8l and I really liked it.So I have spent a bit of money on Hilux and need to make the most of it..if I had the money Landcruiser would have been my preferred 4x4.Had the 60 and 8 series before but both petrol cost a lot to travel in those Cheers
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Reply By: TomH - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 19:15

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 19:15
Not only do you have to use the original seats but you must use the factory connections for the car seat.
AnswerID: 595965

Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 22:10

Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 22:10
All can be done legally I found out but costs are highway robbery..cheers
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Reply By: peteC - Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 20:33

Friday, Feb 05, 2016 at 20:33
Have you done the Hilux rear seat mod that allows you to lower the rear of the seat? It gives you access to a large storage area and only takes about 30 minutes. I carry 2 maxtrax, some tools, spares, first aid kit and other stuff like rain gear, spare set of cloths towel etc.
AnswerID: 595969

Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 11:45

Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 11:45
HI peteC not sure what you mean? . I have completely taken seat out.But you say can modify the back part now.to access stuff...cheers
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FollowupID: 864748

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Feb 07, 2016 at 07:33

Sunday, Feb 07, 2016 at 07:33
I believe he is talking about the seat folding forward and down. That would let you get into the area behind the seat.

Phil
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Reply By: Stephen F2 - Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 09:12

Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 09:12
Well well Seems the back seat can be converted legally .So thanks to everyone who thought otherwise...All I need is $5 donations from everyone and my back seat conversion can be done..yes folks only a cool 5 to 6 grand..expensive having a son ha ha ha...see you around with boring useless back seat ...Oh and thanks to all the advice ....
AnswerID: 595977

Follow Up By: Roachie Silverado - Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 09:40

Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 09:40
Dis you read the last post by peteC? He says you can do a modification that gives you access to a lot of space and it only takes 30 minutes... Sounds like a viable option to look into.
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Follow Up By: Member - Charlie M (SA) - Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 12:27

Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 12:27
Back seat mod is on New Hilux Net
Cheers
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FollowupID: 864754

Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 22:02

Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 22:02
Interesting just read that Hilux forum.Funny how majority of people on this forum.talked about legalities.I wonder if there was an accident and they investigated and found bits cut out off back seat Would that constitute insurance null and void and owner liable...just saying ...thanks
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FollowupID: 864766

Reply By: OutBack Wanderers - Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 22:31

Saturday, Feb 06, 2016 at 22:31
Amazing after reading the comments, what some ppl do to save a buck but not a Life

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AnswerID: 595990

Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Sunday, Feb 07, 2016 at 00:20

Sunday, Feb 07, 2016 at 00:20
Hi O.W.I do not think anyone out to save a buck..I just put it out there about changing a seat ,its not rocket science.But there are hurdles and our governing bodies are very strict

Mind you if they were to check every 4wd I am sure they would find many faults..
I grew up in an era of adventure and life has its risks you never know when the end comes
But to insinuate saving a buck for a life is a bit rude.By the way I have cared for abused children for 16 years now .End of the day the original seat will be put back in as saving 6 grand is not chicken feed ...thank you
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Feb 07, 2016 at 07:36

Sunday, Feb 07, 2016 at 07:36
OW He is only asking. We all go through different stages setting our cars up. All cool.

It's was worth asking the question Stephen. Don't worry about that. A wise man once said that "if you don't ask - you may never know.

Best of luck.

Phil
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FollowupID: 864774

Reply By: Member - Munji - Tuesday, Feb 09, 2016 at 20:26

Tuesday, Feb 09, 2016 at 20:26
Stephen

Today a little 5 year old girl in WA because her parent did not have her secured in her car seat correctly and was involved in a car crash.
Think very carefully about this seat issue my friend.
AnswerID: 596065

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