Geosurveys Hill now Prohibited

Received my Madigan Permit last week issued the 1st of May .Our trip was to include Geosurveys Hill ,Geographical centre plus some other off track points of interest ,however a new condition has been added the permit stating that you can't leave the Madigan track by 50 metres and that Geosurveys Hill and Plenty lakes are prohibited. The area south of Madigans Line to south of Geosurverys Hill in a parallel line to the QLD border is titled land not marked on our Nav maps. This puts a big hole in our trip as we missed out last year coming in for the west.
If you want to visit the Geocentre you still can just come in from numerous routes from the south
QUOTE from Permit. 2. Access to side tracks is not permitted, except to find a camp within 50m of the Madigan Track.
3. Off-track driving is not permitted, except to find a camp within 50m of the track.

Please note the following:
1. Access to the Allitra Tablelands, including Madigan Camp 3 and 4 is prohibited.

2. Access to the Plenty Lakes and to Geosurvey Hill is prohibited.

3. This permit does not provide access to the Hay River Track. A permit for the Hay River Track is available through Direct 4WD at www.direct4wd.com.au or (08) 8952 3359.

4. This permit does not provide access to Andado Pastoral Lease. You should make your own arrangements with the proprietor of Andado.

5. The transit route is often rough and can be dangerous. Please leave plenty of time to arrive safely at your destination and drive according to the road conditions.

6. It is recommended you regularly check under your vehicle for a build-up of spinifex near the wheels- this can pose a fire risk.
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Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 18:22

Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 18:22
Heading that way in July. 2 questions though.....
1. Is there such thing as a Madigan 'Track' ? How would you know if you're more than 50 meters off it?
2. Who is policing this stuff out there???
Just wondering...........
AnswerID: 599566

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 20:10

Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 20:10
I don't think that there is any official Madigan Track. It is actually just a line of camps.

This is the only sign that I can recall. I don't think that it could be called an official sign. But if you get challenged - the best of luck. It's the only one we saw and it is at the junction with the Hay River Track.

Phil

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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 19:02

Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 19:02
Thanks for that info, Maurice. New limitations won't affect us, as we weren't planning any off-track pursuits. :-)

Maybe I didn't search well enough but was unable to find a need for a Madigan permit, other than a Desert Pass Pass, which I have. Where did you get yours from?

Notice Les-PK Ranger mentioned permits in his reply on another thread.

Thanks,
Bob

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Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: maurice b - Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 19:14

Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 19:14
Not sure of your route Bob .If you plan to do the Madigan you require a permit.If so i can send you a direct page link.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 19:28

Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 19:28
Planning route from Old Andado, Acacia Peuce Reserve, then to Camp 5, and across to Hay River and down to French Line, at this stage, Maurice.

Would appreciate that link, thanks.

Bob

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Follow Up By: maurice b - Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 19:37

Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 19:37
On left Bob Application for Transit Permit http://www.clc.org.au/articles/cat/application-for-a-transit-permit/
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 20:13

Thursday, May 05, 2016 at 20:13
Appreciate the link, Maurice. Will have to get my bum into gear and get it organised.

Might have to invite myself on a Centre trip next year, if there's a group going up from the French Line. Our Madigan companions, and us, weren't keen on venturing down there, with only 2 vehicles. Just doing the Madigan this year will be a big enough "tick", along with a CSR trip, late July.

Thanks,
Bob

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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Friday, May 06, 2016 at 08:45

Friday, May 06, 2016 at 08:45
Hi Maurice,

All I can say is way a joke....where will it all end?

I am glad I made the venture there when it was Crown Land.



Cheers


Stephen
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Follow Up By: maurice b - Friday, May 06, 2016 at 10:32

Friday, May 06, 2016 at 10:32
Thanks Steve . I did a bit of searching a while back and found this Native Tile/Freehold map and the part below the blue scroll above Madigans Line is a new area that was granted a few years back. Correct me if i am wrong .You can see native land now extends south of Geosurveys Hill then become crown land again untill you reach the Park. looks like Colson to Geohill via Geosurveys campA is also out, a trip Les and i hoped to do in 2017.
The same thing happed in 2008 when the Calvert Range, Constance Headland areas where closed off. I was lucky as i had visited them three times
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Friday, May 06, 2016 at 14:05

Friday, May 06, 2016 at 14:05
Hi Maurice

I have no idea on how they would manage it out there, as it is wild country with no tracks what so ever. It would be very interesting to see just how far Geosurvey Hill is inside the restricted zone?

I know a lot of people were heading down to Geosurvey Hill from the Madigan Line and doing it the easy way, and it might be an attempt to stop that travel. If you found out exactly where there over zone ends, you could come up through the Crown Land.

Knowing what is out there, there is lots of even more remote tracks out there east of the Geo Centre and at least brings you into the Gidge country and good wood for campfires. There is very little timber out near Geosurvey Hill and any firewood will be very scarce.

The Geo Centre is just as good a place to visit and make your way east and come out near Poepple Corner, thats is they have not got under control as well.

The Madigan is an easy drive now compared to what it was, so if you are after a real mans trip, work on the Geo Centre and then east, where it will be 100% cross country...and lots of punctures...lol


Cheers


Stephen




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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Friday, May 06, 2016 at 14:31

Friday, May 06, 2016 at 14:31
Lol, we attempted that last May, got to within 6km of the hill and had to bail back to the cantre and south to French Line to 'escape'.
Fuel would have been depleted had we tried to go on.
I'd try it again, but only west - east direction.
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Follow Up By: maurice b - Friday, May 06, 2016 at 16:10

Friday, May 06, 2016 at 16:10
We really need to clarify if Geohill is actually on Titled land .Hopefully Michelle will let us known soon .
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Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Friday, May 06, 2016 at 11:27

Friday, May 06, 2016 at 11:27
I am in the process of discussions with the CLC and I will seek a statement regarding this to put into our NT permits page as they had only just given me a statement last week regarding Madigan Line and Colson Track. This was to be featured in this week's newsletter so timing is good.
Michelle Martin
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Reply By: Member - Young Nomads - Saturday, May 07, 2016 at 19:26

Saturday, May 07, 2016 at 19:26
http://www.nntt.gov.au/Maps/Indigenous_Estates_and_Determinations_A1L.pdf

Soon there will be no where we can go! not happy Jan :(
AnswerID: 599670

Reply By: maurice b - Saturday, May 07, 2016 at 19:31

Saturday, May 07, 2016 at 19:31
I calibrated the Indigenous land titles map from the gov website in Oziexplorer PC.I used six boundry junctions in reference with the Hema Desert Tracks N.E sheet and as you can see Geosurveys Hill is on crown land .Could someone with knowledge on this discussion elaborate if this is true and why Geosurveys Hill is Prohibited. Thanks Phill vk1dx for your 2015 track log shown in the image
AnswerID: 599671

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 08:05

Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 08:05
Maurice, even the CLC website under permits refers you to this map to determine if a permit is required. It also shows that whole area as crown land. I'd take a copy of that with me.

Straight from the horse's mouth.

CLC website showing crown land
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Follow Up By: Member - Young Nomads - Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 17:03

Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 17:03
I've looked at that too..a little closer than I did before...It appears access to the hill is only restricted from the north ( Madigan camp 8)..not from the south. (geocentre)..according to the updated 2016 native title location map

Also quote from our permit we got earlier this year..both Geo's are on crown land and did not require a permit.

it appears, if you want to do both geo's, you will need to travel north from QAA.

With the rain they've had/ having in the area at the moment and only a 2 week time limit, we will give it a miss this year.



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Reply By: maurice b - Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 08:16

Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 08:16
Thanks Boobook.Thats a positive confirmation that Geohill is on crown land .
AnswerID: 599678

Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 09:43

Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 09:43
Suppose camp 8 heading to the hill is still on 'their' land, so could be an issue driving that (perhaps) 10km or so ?

It's a hard thig for the local people to police for sure, it boils down to doing the 'right' thing as deemed right by others, or ignoring it and living by the sort of self imposed right of passage as Willem Kempen subscribe to . . . at least I think it was Willem and his wife that believed that Australians have the right to passage anywhere in the country, and where challenged and usually won various confrontations without penalty / fine ??
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 09:07

Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 09:07
You would need to be a brave man to challenge Willem!
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Member - gujimbo - Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 15:20

Sunday, May 08, 2016 at 15:20
This is most likely to be for the protection of the ancient stone arrangements in the area (protecting an archaelogical site), we visited GSH two years ago only to confront a group with trail bikes attempting to ride up GSH details where taken and forwarded to the relevant authorities.
AnswerID: 599707

Reply By: maurice b - Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 07:36

Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 07:36
I spoke to the officer in charge of CLC permits and absolute no permission is given to visit Geosurveys Hill from the Madigan line . Our special application was rejected, Saying you must abide to Madigan permit conditions. They are aware its crown land and want to protect the area. However said that they can't stop you going there if you enter from another route, ie from the south .


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