Our Environment - Are we part of the Problem or the Solution?

Submitted: Friday, May 13, 2016 at 23:21
ThreadID: 132405 Views:2602 Replies:14 FollowUps:20
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I must take issue with the following quote from Newsletter 433

"when in remote bush camp its generally ok (when no other campers are around) to incinerate waste in a very hot campfire at end of night - only burn fully degradable/flammable products and never leave metal tins or any residue hazards in a fire pit. Doing this nightly so you only have small scraps rather than a huge plastic bonfire at the end of a week is preferable to minimise toxic pollution"

and to a lesser extent the contents of ExplorOz's Travel Etiquette article.
(Sorry Michelle or Adele)

I would think that the people that frequent this site would consider themselves "environmentalists". That is, we have a love for our beautiful country and we want it to remain that way. We follow the principle of "Tread Lightly" and like to depart places we visit leaving no evidence of us having been there.

We all enjoy the campfire, but we should treat it as a privilege not a right, or we will lose it. It is illegal to burn rubbish when at home because it pollutes the environment. We should set an example to others to not burn rubbish for the same reason. I really value a campfire and do not like seeing it being turned into an incinerator. Rubbish should be out of sight, not around a campfire waiting to be burnt. On any trip I lead no rubbish goes in the fire, period. Not a tea bag, bottle top, or even a tissue.

"to incinerate waste in a very hot campfire at end of night" suggests that at the end of the night you stoke up the fire to burn the rubbish. Not only are you using extra wood just to burn rubbish, your fire should be very low, if not extinguished, when you go to bed, not roaring away.

"to minimise toxic pollution" We should not be minimising toxic pollution, we should be eliminating it entirely. These days its hard to know what contains plastic and what does not. Today, many cans are plastic lined. The only way to avoid burning plastic is not to burn anything at all.

We should all practice "If you can take it in, you can take it out." The Travel Etiquette Article gives some tips on managing your rubbish, maybe that part should be expanded. An example I use. If I have an empty tin can I don't crush it, I put other rubbish inside it and use it as a mini compactor so saving space, using shopping bags is another good idea, as is the ExplorOz spare wheel bag for those with a spare wheel on the back.

Where you dispose of your rubbish also needs consideration. Bins that are outside towns should not be used. We want land managers to spend what money they do have on facilities for all, and not on rubbish removal for the lazy. Same thing with roadside rest areas. We want better toilets, shade, benches and tables etc and not wasting money on expensive rubbish removal. The best place to dispose of rubbish is in a town and in a facility designed for that purpose.

I want my grandchildren to be able to travel this great country as I currently do. We need to look after our environment, we can do this by setting an example to others. Lets be part of the "Solution".
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 00:18

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 00:18
Hi Chris,
I respect your opinion which is shared by others that I've camped with over the years. But I can't agree!

When I find a polluted campsite, I like to collect all the burnable rubbish, clean up the site and burn it. All that toilet paper ....bags and other rubbish. I think this is a lot better than whinging about it which is what any on this forum will do.

We are happy to burn rubbish at the end of the night. We do it for many reasons. One is that it reduces the volume of rubbish left at the next town who would simply put it into landfill or burn it themselves. Rubbish doesn't magically disappear into thin air when you put it in a bin at the next town or back at home.
Secondly, there are health considerations and burning food scraps is a lot better than storing them for days or weeks on end.

Firewood is a variable. In many places we camp today, firewood is a scarce resource - I see it in the Flinders Ranges - places that had plenty of wood 15 years ago and now looking bare - not good. Other places like the GVD have plenty of wood and tourism will not be a threat to the wood supply. Other places need regular burning off to control fuel loads.

I think its best to be sympathetic to the location you're at. In some places fires are OK and serve the purpose, in others you are better off cooking on gas and running a few heat beads in your brazier to stay warm.
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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 01:08

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 01:08
Hi Phil,
If everyone had common sense like yourself we would not have a problem. As we all know common sense is not that common, hence my comments advocates a black and white approach.

A couple of points though.
1. at polluted sites I would do the same as you do. If you tried to take out all the rubbish you find you would be driving a garbage truck.
2. as for burning rubbish, I am really referring to when you are travelling as part of a group. In these circumstances it is unsightly and smelly. If you are travelling by yourself then you cannot be offending others.
3. towns will have the most practical rubbish handling facility for the area. How they dispose of rubbish is not relevant to us, but I argue that a towns facility is what should be used rather than us travellers making decisions on rubbish disposal.
4. for food scraps one can use zip loc bags or I have known some to bury it with their toilet waste. With careful selection of the food you eat you can all bar eliminate food scraps.
5. we need to treat firewood as a scarce resource everywhere. Just because you see a lot firewood lying around does not mean you can burn it without any consideration. What ever wood is around it is part of the local ecosystem and removing it to have big fires is not doing the right thing. By having reasonable campfires we are less likely to affect the environment or incur the wrath of the land managers.
6. You say "I think its best to be sympathetic to the location you're at" You are dead right, I could not agree more.

Thanks for your comments Phil your reply makes some good comments and adds to the debate.

Cheers,

Chris

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Reply By: Les - PK Ranger - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 05:32

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 05:32
As a bushwalker for over 25 years, I really sybscribe to the 'Take it in, take it out' philosophy.
We have all sorts of tricks to minimise packaging, compact and store wet waste like tuna tins etc, and have no probs moving many of these processes across to 4WDn.

On 99% of our walks we wouldn't have a campfire, too complicated.
It is hardsometimes to justify fires on some 4WD trips, certianly I like to not have one in the morning (rekindle last nights faint coals) as it makes the job harder to leave camp an hour or two later with a dead fire.

Burning stuff ?
Sure, paper, uncoated, totally clean burn.
Good saving this on a trip as you go to kindle the nights fire.
Anything else no.
Nothing worse than black smoke from plastic, foil in juice / milk containers, etc.

Metal tins.
Couple of my walking mates use the casserole type meals when 4WDn with me, and they throw the cans in the fire, to brn out contents, nd it works really well.
Next morn they get a knock and come up clean as for crushing and disposal in the rubbish bag.

I'm really dark on burning drink cans (beer etc) or bottles.
Many do this, and it's bloody annoying . . . besides the obvious fact the ali just melts and is left, maybe it's the deposit and recycling thing SA has going, along wiht NT and maybe another state or two now ?
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 05:36

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 05:36
Oh yeah, we ALL have an impact in a very small degree, no matter how much care we take.
Which is why we need to really work at leaving no trace, because we will always leave something no matter how hard we try.

I like the old adage "Character isn't what you do when someone is looking; it is what you do when no one is looking."
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Follow Up By: Member - Robert1660 - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 10:12

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 10:12
I too have bushwalked for many years. We generally found that the further you got away from the car campers the better the fire places became. If we built a new fireplace we would bury it before we left. If we used an established fireplace, most would be in excellent condition anyway however those that were not were always cleaned up before we left. We did burn our food scraps and small amounts of plastic. Tins, if any, were also burned out. The fireplace was then thoroughly cleaned out prior to leaving.
Always we found that where car camping occurred there was always rubbish in the fire.
In all my travels around Oz the rubbish issue is ever present. Of course the toilet paper issue is a massive problem everywhere.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:56

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 19:56
My late parents were bushwalkers before the war, and not so much after, as I was on the scene by then. The rubbish mantra back then was "burn, bash 'n bury" and as such their campsites were left pristine. I suspect that the remains of these many camps would have long rusted away.........and there were no plastics then, as we know them now.

Dad walked with a group of blokes, and some girls, that were nicknamed "The Wals". On a bloke only walk, as they left the camp, "final rites" was peeing on the fire. I often wondered what happened to walkers who used the fire place a week or after..........? :-)

Bob

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Reply By: Kilcowera Station Stay - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 06:43

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 06:43
Could not agree more with the take it with you principle. Take it to the rubbish dump in the next town or pop it into a bin in the next town if you can't find the dump. Don't burn stuff in your campfire that wasn't designed to burn and disappear. How often have you pulled into a nice camping spot and had to clean out the fireplace of dead cans and stubbies before you could light your fire? Unsightly, thoughtless and bloody annoying. Toni
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 11:19

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 11:19
Ever considered that the "firewood" you are burning could very well be the protection or habitat of some of our native fauna?

For early man there was only 2 options, eat it raw or light a fire. Fires were also often the source of heat that may well be the difference between living and dying.

With what we have at our disposal these days the options are much wider.
Also there are many times more of us than there was of them.

Personally I subscribe to the principle of "you take it in, you take it out". Toilet waste dig a bloody deep hole and fill it in when you finish.

Cheers
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Reply By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 16:24

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 16:24
You don't burn a tissue or a tea bag?
I do not see any advantage in not doing so apart from the placebo effect of you feel like you are saving the environment
Landfill comes at a big environmental cost so I don't see benefit on that one but agree with cans ,glass plastic etc
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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 17:01

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 17:01
This is mainly for when I am trip leading. By having a the rule nothing in the fire there can be no misinterpretation of what is permissibly and what is not. Quite apart from that no one likes to see rubbish around your campsite. I see no difference between rubbish left by others and the rubbish of travelling companions. Rubbish is rubbish.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 21:18

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 21:18
We take all our rubbish home as well. Nothing in the fire as well.

Phil
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Reply By: The Explorer - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 21:30

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 21:30
Hi

How is your solar powered, totally organic, non GM modified 4X4 drive going ? :)

Everybody (including "environmentalists") would pump more crap into the atmosphere getting to the camp site by driving a car there than they will ever do burning a few plastic bottles etc each night. Not to mention when not on holidays and saving up so you can have a break (i.e. driving to work everyday).

OK burning some stuff on campfires is arguably not the best thing to do, but the contribution to total environmental impact caused would be so small I doubt it could be measured. My suggestion - get over it and concentrate on more important things.

As some have pointed out burning the wood collected from surrounding bush in the first place (irrespective of what other things you then choose to throw on it) has the potential to have a much greater impact (at least on a local scale).

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 22:30

Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 22:30
Hi Greg, I think you miss the point. While I agree with your statement " the contribution to total environmental impact caused would be so small I doubt it could be measured" but this is for one individual. What happens if everybody stops burning rubbish? You have to start somewhere.

Besides that it an action which is a symbol that us travellers are concerned for the environment. Nobody wants to see rubbish when out travelling around. An education program is required to promote the mantra that if you can carry it in, you can carry it out. Bush walkers do it and so should 4wd drivers.

I don't burn rubbish, and promote the same idea to others as my contribution to helping the environment. Sure, anything you may do, or not do, will have little effect in the whole scheme of things, but it is what we all do that will effect change in the longer term.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 14:05

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 14:05
Much better to burn what is 'burnable' rather than cart it to the next town ,environmentally cleaner and greener , do the sums , truck needed to empty the rubbish bin , big ass bulldozer to dig the landfill hole , same again to compact the fill , tis just foolish and egotistical to not burn the teabag while sitting round the campfire cremating the small fauna [ lizards etc ] that called that piece of timber home ..
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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 13:06

Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 13:06
You are not permitted to burn rubbish in the city because of the pollution it causes. Burning the rubbish in the country still generates the same pollution.
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 14:23

Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 14:23
When behaviours are reduced to "symbolic actions" we tend to end up with a lot of people who might go along with the actions without really being aware of why they are doing so, and over time the message gets sadly distorted and misapplied. What is really needed is awareness and understanding. eg the "bash, burn or bury" message of years gone by worked OK when most containers were metal that would rust away - but it doesn't work now when containers are plastic. Likewise if "dont burn" becomes a blanket mantra some people will blindly comply even when circumstances suggest otherwise. eg if detained in a remote area (by eg flooding) is it sensible to accumulate a heap of rubbish attracting rodents and flies when much of it could readily be burnt - especially when many outback communities still burn their rubbish anyway. Surely we are intelligent enough to make informed decisions? No, perhaps not always - the grubs that litter campsites with rubbish and toilet refuse aren't going to take any notice of messages, slogans or common sense.
J and V
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 22:35

Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 22:35
"You are not permitted to burn rubbish in the city because of the pollution it causes."

Incorrect (well in the Shire I live in). You are not allowed to incinerate "material which may become offensive when burnt". "Offensive" isn't the same as "pollution". You can burn something that causes pollution (almost anything including wood) as long as its not "offensive".

Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: marty d - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 07:17

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 07:17
iagree with all of what you have said , except the " Its not a right ' bit . Im in the it is a right to travel anywhere in OZ , it is a right to Drive a car , etc,etc,etc., until one forfeits that right through bad behaviour.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 12:55

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 12:55
Nobody gives you "rights" in Australia. That's an American idea, and it's faulty logic.

It's the reason we don't have a Bill of Rights in our Constitution - our founding fathers deemed it spurious and unnecessary.

We have privileges that need to be earned by showing we are capable of handling the responsibility that comes with that privilege.

We earn a drivers licence by showing we are competent, responsible and able to continuously obey road rules and regulations. The privilege of holding a drivers licence is taken away from us if we flout the laws relating to road and driving behaviour.

I regard it as a privilege to be able to travel this wide brown land without major restrictions - something a lot of people in many countries can't do. And it is a privilege, not a right.

The more that grubby people desecrate our land and treat that privilege with contempt, the more laws we will get lumbered with, that will restrict our movement, and cost us money to travel and camp.,

The sad part is that the Indigenes who claim to be the custodians of this land are the ones doing the most rubbish desecration to the country, well out of proportion to their numbers.

I'm in complete agreement with Chris' opinion. Keep your rubbish-production to such a low level, that no-one can see you've been there.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Traveller61 - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 07:48

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 07:48
We have many rights in this country. Its not just an American idea. We also have many privileges in this country. For example we all have human rights.
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Reply By: gbc - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 08:22

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 08:22
There was a caveat in there about being in a very remote campsite, and burning to minimise toxic pollution. My take on that is putrefying waste being kept in camp.
I don't make a habit of burning rubbish either, but where we remote camp on Fraser there are no facilities and we are there for up to 15 odd days. Dingos recce the camp every night.
Every 3rd day on a high tide I'll dig a hole and have a burn of combustibles like meat packaging and food scraps, then dig out the remains and bag it to be taken to a bin on the way off the island. Short of driving 1.5 hrs each way to a bin I'm just about out of other options. I know I am breaking a number of rules and I am ok with that.
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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 12:39

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 12:39
Hi gbc, the point of my post is to get people thinking about better rubbish management. It is impossible to make "rules" that cover every situation. You have highlighted a situation you faced and the solution you adopted. You are to be applauded for your actions, as while your solution was not "take it in, take it out", given the circumstances you faced you devised a solution that was considered, and was the next best action you could devise in the circumstances.

It is essential that no wildlife can get to your rubbish. We don't want wildlife seeing humans as a food source, its not good for them or ourselves. Your recognition of this fact is also worthy of commendation. Hanging a rubbish bag over a tree branch high off the ground can sometime also be a solution.
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Reply By: Member Kerry W (WA) - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 11:49

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 11:49
Really good to hear the debate on this as there are valid points for both points of view.
I would only like to add that as humans on the planet at the moment we generate an amazing amount of waste no matter how hard we try to minimise it.
Simply by being alive - each of us and our possessions contributes to the pressure on the environment.

Many years ago setting up camp in a pristine area for several days with 4 adults and 6 kids I located a place for all our rubbish to be stored until we left. After 2 days despite all attempts to keep rubbish to a minimum I was surprised at how quickly the rubbish store had grown but more importantly - how it contrasted to the pristine location we were occupying.

It was so obvious the impact our presence has on the landscape and usually at home or in other campsites it is hidden from our attention - here it was blatantly in our faces and detracting significantly from its surroundings !

My point is sometimes we really forget that the planet is suffering immense damaged due to our very existence. It is easier to ignore when we live in urbanised areas don't visit pristine "sacred spaces".

The trade off I guess is -- We need to get out into these beauty spots to appreciate them remind ourselves and educate our kids how beautiful the bush once was before we infested it with our presence. Do what we must to minimise our presence we cannot say we don't deserve to be in these places because we must visit them for 2 very good reasons.
1/ They nourish the soul and rejuvenate our senses - they are sacred spaces for a reason.
2/ They remind us of where we came from as a species and contrast the mess we generally live in in urban areas. The fewer people that are out and about appreciating nature - the more development will be allowed/tempted to destroy these areas due to a lack of proactive people lobbying for their protection.

BTW I do burn what I can when in very remote locations but always carry out and clean up rubbish. I have run outdoor adventure programs for offenders etc for over 10 years and also have a military background. From my experience the problems we face in society today is because our young people have no real adventure in their lives and simply do not learn enough about responsibility, self reliance and respect. This is why our recreational areas really suffer from lack of care.

My 2 bobs worth...
Kerry W (Qld)
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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 13:04

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 13:04
Hi Kerry,

I reckon your 2 bobs worth is really worth at least 2 quid. Well said

It very common for one generation to bemoan the next generation and where it is going. I remember my parents bemoaning my generation and I reckon we have done alright. I like to keep an open mind so refrain from making any judgments about future generations and leave it up to them. Its less stressful for me as well.

Chris
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 20:18

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 20:18
Hi Chris

I think you might know that I disagree with that approach , mainly because from an "Outcomes" point of view burning everything is the most effective way of reducing our impact.
Most other approaches just box shift the problem elsewhere - often a city landfill.

Note - Its is fair to say though that if it doesn't actually burn up then you shouldn't attempt to burn it, hence I don't recommend burning glass and also metal cans unless you really do follow up and ensure that its fully burn't and if not, its yours to take away.


Many of these questions depend on the point of view one takes - and the vast majority of people actually don't have a defined objective, other than maybe having a fun trip.

We probably had 30+ around a huge 5m long fire saturday night and some were throwing cans etc into the fire (Average age 25).

I did not attempt to lecture anyone and I believe its counterproductive.
Indeed its fascinating to observe the crowd behaviour.

What I tend to do is ensure that a clean up is undertaken after the event, and maybe only 1 in 3 of the guilty are present but we methodically go thru and remove anything unburnt and no other camps are had unless the place
is fit to use again.

This tends to drive home the point that actions have consequences in a sort of "low aggravation approach" which i find works better than some approaches which can tear camps & trips apart.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 20:40

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 20:40
You obviously weren't in the Victorian High Country, as there is a limit both on the size of the fire & length of timber that you can use, I think the limit is one metre.



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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 20:48

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 20:48
Yep Shaker , Chris knows our property , but not everybody would !
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 22:50

Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 22:50
I only brought it up because friends of mine nearly got booked for having a log about 2 metres long across their fire.

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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 21:09

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 21:09
Robin did not have a camp fire, I would call it a bonfire. He has so many trees on his property that hardly a day goes by without a limb falling somewhere. He needs to have a bonfire every now and again to keep the fuel load down in case of a bushfire. A bonfire, or ever a camp fire on your own property is not really what this post is about. We are talking about rubbish that impacts the enjoyment of others.

I had to laugh at your comment "I did not attempt to lecture anyone and I believe its counterproductive." It would have to be a brave man to lecture 30+ 25 years olds who are drinking.

Don't agree with your comment "burning everything is the most effective way of reducing our impact." I remember as a kid rubbish removal was by way of two steel rubbish bins and an incinerator. Non burnable rubbish in the steel bins collected once a week and burnable rubbish in the incinerator and burnt as required. Incinerators are banned these days because of the pollution they cause. In the country the pollution is not so obvious, but it is still pollution.

My comments are mainly aimed at trips undertaken with others where "rules" need to be agreed for the enjoyment of all. Commonsense should always prevail taking in the current circumstances and there are bound to be occasions when one has to be pragmatic.

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Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 08:07

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 08:07
The fact this is being discussed is a positive as it creates an awareness of our impact when travelling.

Much can be done to eliminate waste before leaving home by simply removing a lot of the unnecessary packaging that comes with many products and produce, especially plastics and I’m sure many put this into practice.

As an aside, I was at Mill Creek in the Dharug national Park just to the north of Sydney on yesterday and Mrs Landy and I spent a few minutes collecting rubbish to put in the bins that were provided – it truly amazes me that people are attracted to such places because of the wonderful setting and then set about spoiling it due to an inability to walk a few feet to the bin…

And yes, not limited to Mill Creek!

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Reply By: Member - Ups and Downs - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 09:01

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 09:01
On the fire issue I regularly walk around campsite, if no others around, with a cigarette lighter in my hand. I just light up the combustible toilet paper lying around to get rid of it. (No, I won't start any bushfires)

Paul
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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 20:44

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 20:44
I've had to think about this for a while, Chris, to be able to present some thoughtful ideas. Agree with much of what you say, though it can't all work in some areas.

Out our way Main Roads have provided parking bays, with long drops, water tanks and often some shelter sheds. There are also wheely bins provided, for long-lunchers, or overnighters. I feel these are a necessity, as MR staff already travel out at least weekly to top up the water tanks and clean the toilets. It doesn't take much for them to empty the bins(bins are fitted with a garbage liner) at the same time.

Coming from a lengthy work period on stations, often remote, I've become accustomed to being involved with all the services that nearly 23 million Aussies take for granted. Water, power generation, sewerage and garbage disposal are all on my CV! :-)

It's not until you have to provide the rubbish receptacles, cart said rubbish(usually weekly, just like the council!) dump in previously dug landfill hole(dug by yourself, or an employee, on a machine provided, maintained and fuelled by yourself.......well, my employer really) that you have a REAL appreciation of just how much rubbish our modern lifestyles are generating.

So much stuff is sold in on a card, cardboard backing, clear, plastic bubble and the obligatory bar code on the back(just above the "Made in China" bit). Stubbies come in 6 pack shrink wrap inside a cardboard cartoon etc. But I won't go on.......

We used to burn everything, otherwise our landfill would have been bigger than the sandhills it was hidden amongst. Sometimes, very rarely, there was clouds of black smoke, but mostly the weekly garbage burnt pretty clean. The alternative to not burning(we didn't backfill every week) was chip packets and the like scattered down into the Diamantina, and beyond.

Probably a case of doing, in the bush, what one feels is the best for the bush, and those that come after them. If ALL travellers did what all the respondents to Chris' thread do, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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AnswerID: 600165

Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Monday, May 16, 2016 at 21:21

Monday, May 16, 2016 at 21:21
Good post Bob. As I said in another reply, there are time when ones needs to be a bit more pragmatic.

Chris
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FollowupID: 869480

Reply By: Member - Blue M - Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 02:21

Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 02:21
Chris, the wife and I have been on the road for the past 9 weeks. Every night we stay in a new place. 99% of the time it is on a flat bit of ground just of the side of the road. The only thing we leave behind is a damp patch where the water outlet come for beneath the van.

After leaving a chock behind one day, I now always park in the opposite direction that we are leaving, so I have to turn around and drive over were we camped to make sure nothing is left behind.

As for food scraps, I will toss a bit of stale bread or the like out on the ground for the critters, and I don't think they will relying on humans for their next feed.

We sometimes have 7 or 8 bags of rubbish in the back of the car looking for a empty bin to put it in.

I agree with you about burning stuff in a fire, but not necessarily for the reasons you have. I just hate seeing stuff half charred laying around, not so much as the environment impact.

As stated above we put more crud into the atmosphere just getting there than any bit of rubbish you will burn.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

AnswerID: 600266

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