"BOG"....Why are they using EO Data??????

Submitted: Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 09:51
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Hi All

While trying to locate information on a place that I hope to locate, I came across this site....

Bushtrackers Owners Group

What the hell is going on??????their site is a clone of EO Places, with our latest places and photos for their members to benefit from. If they want to use our information, it should state that their "Places" information, is not their, but ExPloroz and its members.

Have you given them permission David to use our information?

The places on the site belong to members like me to take the time out to record and photograph information for the benefit of EO Members, not the BOG!!!!

Can anyone shed any light on why they use our information????



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Stephen
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Reply By: TomH - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 10:25

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 10:25
A look at the copyright notice on the bottom of that home page may answer your question
Plus a read of the ExplorOZ / Beyond IT Terms of Use here may prove enlightening

http://www.exploroz.com/TermsofUse.aspx
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 10:36

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 10:36
Cheers Tom,

I did not look down far enough.



Cheers



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Follow Up By: Member - Ross N (NSW) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 12:26

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 12:26
As much as I value the Exploroz site I would never post photos or other proprietary material on it or any other site because of the loss of copyright (not that anyone is likely to highly value my work, but it is mine and I hope will stay that way.)
To be fair, all sites to my knowledge, assume copyright over all content including face ache.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 13:44

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 13:44
Hi Ross

Seeing that we presume the "Places" site is being on sold to other sites, I feel that those that take the time to collect the data should have a small reward.

After all, we are the ones that travel thousands of kilometres, in my case, have spent thousands of dollars on cameras, GPS gear etched and others are reaping the rewards.

I still have hundreds of GPS plotted waypoints that are not found on this site and thousands of images that will now not be displayed on here.



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Follow Up By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 14:16

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 14:16
I see that at the bottom of the BOG page the Quick Links are the same as on the EO site so every thing on EO, including Treks etc, is available on the BOG site. Every thing said here about Places would apply to Treks etc.
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Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 10:32

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 10:32
Whilst a question for EO to answer, I have always worked on the basis anything I contribute to the EO site gives IT Beyond the right to use it in anyway or form it chooses, including on-selling the content.

This is born out in the Terms and Conditions.



In terms of the BOG site, my guess is that site has outsourced and pays for information from IT Beyond...

If that is the case, good luck to David & Michelle, it is an endorsement of the great product they have produced, and also hopefully a source of revenue as I suspect there is nothing cheap about providing the EO resource and service, for which most people don't pay for...

Mind you, look at most sites you contribute to, they will most likely be similar.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 10:42

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 10:42
Hi Baz

It now makes you wonder if you are a member of BOG, can they uploads images to our places site?, without logging into our places site.?


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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 11:16

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 11:16
Hi Baz

Just another thought?

Seeing the ExPlorOz relies on members to update places, as well as adding new places into their database, it David is making money out of it, they could in return encourage members to get out in the field and get more updated places and new ones as well.

In return, members could earn members money for all new added places to spend in the EO shop and then it is a win, win situation. After all if everyone stopped adding new and updated places, David would not have a feature to sell?



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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:50

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:50
Interesting that the Terms ask your to waive your 'Moral Rights'. Through some recent work it's my understanding these they can not be waived in Australia.

Oh well it's the internet.

You pay EO to be a member, and share your travel information and knowledge.
They sell it to other parties and you are told that you waive all rights to your information.

No different to twitter, Facebook, etc I guess. Share and be dammed.

I do see that EO has to make money, the idea of sharing the spoils is a good one, And goes some way to ensure that the great information will keep flowing into the site.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 17:48

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 17:48
Hi Boobook

The only trouble is that as far as the BOG site goes, there is no mention to say that the places have been created by us fellow EO Members.

If I was just for us guys, I am only too happy to share information with fellow members that can get a benifit from it. If those guys on the other site are paying for our information.....yes OURS as we are the guys that do the hard work to creative it, then we should be paid a small fee for keeping the site accurate and up to date.

Seeing we are a strong site, the only way to go is forward, and if places are not continually updated, it could have an effect for everyone.


Just my thoughts, but I am not "happy Jan" for my information going to other sites. Our last trip alone, I have 168 waypoints, with many not in our places page.

Give me 168 reasons why this should be shared with another forum group that I am not a member of?


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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 07:49

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 07:49
Maybe with a little more thought EO can address the issue.

Apart from places and waypoints, your tracks are also valuable, as are those from others. Though I note these are now almost impossible to get on EO now due to a change away from map view of user tracks.

A couple of years ago I let my membership lapse because the forum was diminishing, and going over the same ol topics.

However with another trip to Maralinga, the ABH and CS etc up to Giles, i wanted to get more information and travel times. EO is the best resource for that because of member input. So I joined again. Why? The community input.

Mud Map did a similar thing a few years ago. Any tracks you submitted had the right assigned to Mud Map according to the T&C. People we not happy campers on that either. Now look at it, almost irrelevant.with less that 1000 downloads on Android. Mud Map did change the terms but much of the damage was done.

One website gave credits when similar information was submitted. That woudl certainly recognise the efforts and good will of the users.




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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 22:49

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 22:49
Is not the shared sections of the two forums reciprocal? Are you sure that they have not contributed to these sections in proportion the the amount of access they have made of them?

Stop being so bloody parochial.
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Reply By: Member - Ross N (NSW) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 14:30

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 14:30
I wonder if we will see a compilation book of Doug T's Sunday histories published
Elsewhere and not by Doug as he no longer has copyright
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:10

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:10
Most (~99%) of Doug's material for "his" Sunday history thread is plagiarised (cut and paste) from other peoples websites or Wikipedia. Very little if any is his own words - e.g. - much of the dialogue and many for the pictures for this weeks History page would appear to be cut and paste from this persons blog..

CRASH OF A B-24D LIBERATOR "BEAUTIFUL BETSY" KROOMBIT TOPS FOREST NEAR BILOELA ON 26 FEBRUARY 1945

and at bottom of page "copyright of Peter Dunn 2015" !!!!

Its the same every week, just someone else's work copied.

You can't copy another persons work, word for word and then claim copyright on it...especially if you dont even attempt to acknowledge them and try and pass the work off as your own.

Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: Member - Bigfish - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:05

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:05
GREED...Its the way of the world.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:20

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:20
Hmmm, who is greedy?

I'm a member of both Exploroz and BOG....and I pay an equal annual fee for the privilege.

I really hope you aren't calling me greedy!! ;-)

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:34

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:34
No Roachie. You pay your membership, you contribute stories, treks and photographs and then these are on sold to other sites for a nice little profit. People often think that when joining a forum they are part of a family. Nope...the big majority of forums make their owners a good income.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:47

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:47
As far as I can figure..info isn't "sold" to another website - the BOG website is owned and operated by IT Beyond i.e Exploroz crew- just another "facade"....or have I got it wrong?

Either way don't see the problem myself.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 18:01

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 18:01
Hi Greg,

As I have stated above, I enjoy adding places here on EO for other members to get the benifit from, not to get the other group to enjoy.

If they are both owned by one person, then yes. It is double dipping. If not, let the BOC start their own places page, and see how many places they will have?

Ifit is a money making factor, it must be passed on to those that add the places, fair being fair.

At this stage, you can guess that I am pissed off with my newplac s being shared, after all, the BOC. Boys did not find the information. At this stage, I might only add imaged to places that are already in the system, but no way now am I going to update or add any new places.

I have a few very good examples of a number of places that I have details of from our last trip, one such place sees thousands of vehicles pass withing a couple of kilometres from it every year, just off the Stuart Highway. Hundreds of people would be aware of the site, yet to this very day, only a hand full of dedicated people only ever visit the site any one year., why, because most people have. No idea. How to get there. This is one such place that will not now be seen on EO until things are sorted out.



Cheers



Stephen



Cheers



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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 18:23

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 18:23
Stephen,

Please forgive me, but I simply do not understand why you're upset.

You are kind enough to share your stories (I'm guessing that is what you're referring to as I don't even look at anything other than forum posts on here or BOG (note: not "BOC") forums. So, anything you've written in "Places" has been of no interest to me and possibly some/many other forum users. I'm not even sure what the "Places" thing is all about, but I might start doing some digging so I know what you're referring to.

Anyway, my point is this: you are kind enough to take the trouble to type up your notes and pictures....that is great. So, why wouldn't you be chuffed (does anybody still say "chuffed"? I guess so, because I just did...hahaha) if/when your invaluable info is shared around even further?

I'm guessing you don't get paid for your contributions and that you're only doing it out of the generosity of your heart. Or am I wrong on that score?

I recently took some time to write-up an account of the alterations I did to the six wheels of my Bushtracker....whereby I added an extra valve stem so I could permanently fit a set of tyre monitors and not need to remove them whenever I needed to air up/down. I thought it was a story that various people of different groups might like, so I copied it on to several different forums and even Facebook. I had to take the "trouble" of doing the copying/pasting of the article, but I did so in the knowledge that my idea (be it considered good, bad or otherwise) would get a lot more exposure.

Sorry mate....I just don't understand where you're coming from. And, like I said earlier, I pay an annual membership fee to both Exploroz and BOG so I certainly don't feel like I'm bludging on the system...and I hope that's not how you and others see it.

I seem to get the feeling that you might be inferring something sinister about BT owners in general....but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Cheers mate,

Bill
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 18:32

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 18:32
Hi Bill

I am in now way having a go at any members of the BOC, as I do not know any of them at all, except you, and purely for the fact that information from here on EO is a clone on their site, and looks as if they are created by their members.

If you are paying two sets of fees, I wonder who gets your membership money? does it go to the BOC, or is there a filtering back to other sources?

Like I have said, if the BOC are paying for this information their must be an acknowledge to the people that have supplied this information from those that have sold this data to your other group.

I have no beefs at all with the other group, only those that are selling this data.


Cheers



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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 18:42

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 18:42
I pay my subscription directly to BOG....Bushtracker Owners Group.....

They, in turn, use the funds for various charitable events and no doubt they pay IT Beyond for the upkeep of the BOG website. Further than that I cannot comment.

Please note though, that the BOG has various gatherings each year (smaller state-based get-togethers and a HUGE all-together function once a year. The annual gathering is in September in western Queensland.

From what I've read, the influx of several hundred "BOGgers" brings much needed cash flow to the various small country towns where the 10 day gathering takes place and funds are raised for charity as well.

I'm only a John-come-lately so don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of what they get up to.

Cheers,

Bill
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 23:08

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 23:08
"They, in turn, use the funds for various charitable events and no doubt they pay IT Beyond for the upkeep of the BOG website. Further than that I cannot comment."

Does BOG pay a fee to use the Bog forum or do the members of BOG just pay a membership fee the same as we do? Many of us are members. I think there is bigger concern about all the non fee paying members having access to the forum.

Another question, To whom is David actually selling the content that we contribute? I thought there was just some common areas of the two forums. I don't consider this as "selling content to others." We are just sharing content and both sides are contributing to it.

I did not think David was making heaps of money from selling content. As I see it he is making his money from the advertising on the site, membership fees and shop sales.

Please tell me who David is actually flogging "our" content to?
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Aug 24, 2016 at 06:48

Wednesday, Aug 24, 2016 at 06:48
I think the problem of getting more people to become members is that many just see EO as a "forum".

Of course it is much more than that, but for whatever reason there are many that don't appear to either realise or value that.

And before I get a plethora of comments criticising that comment it is intended as an observation rather than being critical. And whilst EO is happy for people to visit the site, I am stating the obvious when I suggest they would be even more happier if people became members and paid a fee to offset the running costs of the website…

The reality is that it must cost a fortune to run this site, if we value it we all need to assist in making sure David and Michelle can continue to make it available.

But, specifically to the points being raised here, all we really need to concern ourselves with is the Terms and Conditions under which we access the EO site. We either accept those conditions and operate under them, or we don’t.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Reply By: BarryR1 - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:53

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 16:53
Hey Stephen I can’t believe you didn’t know of this. It has been that way for quite a few years. It was the same with Tri-athlon Oz. They use the same unique platform of David and Michelle’s creation. I reckon that you would find that most people who own a Bushtracker would no doubt be members or visitors of this site and contribute in exactly the same way including tracks, treks and places.

Who knows, if Ultimate weren’t such a tight-arse mob, there would be huge value in them being on a similar platform and then you’d be right.

I wouldn’t see this as being a case of ‘on-selling’ rather value adding to a unique product and one that many people see the worth and benefit of by contributing selflessly for the benefit of all. This includes the likes of you, micko, equinox and quite a few others who quietly go about adding to the ever expanding knowledge base that EO has become.

I didn’t think you would need to incentivise your desire to travel and to share by seeking profit or reward. The danger in that is that with the razor thin margins in E-business these days, it might soon go under.

Another difficulty would be in assessing just what is of value and what is simply dross clogging up the system. Is a picture of a bend in the road or a walking track really providing value to the forum readers? I’d reckon not as much as something meaningful like the location, description and picture of a water hole for example. Another thing I’ve found is that in many cases, there is no narrative added, simply a photo and a GPS with an identifying tag like ‘intersection’. It’s always more interesting if there’s something of relevance added.

Take a breath, park your indignation and have a bit of a think. There is a long history of individuals who thought they were bigger than the EO site (or that it owed its existence to them) and where are they now.....pimping themselves over on Facebook ha ha.






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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 18:49

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 18:49
Hi Barry

I agree 100% with what you say, and I have no beef with the BOC group.

What caught me out was the site was very similar to our EO site, and when you check out their places page....a dead clone for our site here on EO.

As for the Ultimate Forum, I have only ever posted a couple of items on there and never the information like I post here on EO.

I know that a number of places have, yes an intersection and then images of roads, tracks or a vehicle at a junction. The very reason why I have added these type of places is to get track information correct. One such place that i recently updated was kilometres out. Every map created buy Hema, Natmap and EO had one very major landmark nearly four kilometres south of its true and real location, so again, I changed the location to set things correct.

Here are a couple of images that I think would be of major importance to hundreds of travellers that would pass these important places, yet you will not find them on any major map/....????why not.






If members go out of there way to share these important places with EO Places, and then this information is then unsold to other groups, and money is made out of the deal, then any important updates created here on EO should get a kick back....its only fair.



Cheers



Stephen
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 21:59

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 21:59
Not a member BUT please leave Doug T out of this.

Have a think about it and what you are doing to Doug.

I know what you mean well, but he should not be included in any of this.

Thanks Doug.

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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 19:05

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 19:05
Stephen - There are thousands of websites that encourage people to put up good, useful information for free, and then the website owners on-sell it - or sell advertising to businesses based on the customer base the website owner has built up.

It's the way Facebook has made so much money - and it's the way of the internet world.

If you can't cope with it - start your own website, post what you want to post, and claim copyright on it, and sell access to the site or sell advertising to businesses, based on the number of readers you have.

I come here to glean a bit of info, give some hard-earned info in return, in a "like-for-like" move - and if David and Michelle can build a business and make some money onselling the forum information or client base here, then good luck to them.

It's a free world, no-one makes you contribute to anything, and you can choose exactly how much you want to contribute.

It's no different to the real world, where other people often glean useful and highly valuable information from you in conversation - and you get nothing in return! Some people are masters at it.

I have contributed vast amounts of useful and valuable information to more than one website - but I started to realise it took up too much of my time, and many people were getting extremely valuable information for nothing, that I'd taken a lifetime to accumulate - and they were getting it for nothing!

As a result, I drew back from my contributions and I now choose to be very selective about how much information I supply on forums.
I'll always supply advice on problems - but I no longer supply highly technical and valuable information for free, as I did for a number of years.

It's your choice. One of the problems with the internet is the inability to control who gets your info and photos, and where it goes, once you post it online - as many girlies with naughty photos, have found to their dismay.

As result, you have to be careful and think about what you are posting, and do you consider it has value and importance to you, that you would prefer not to lose control of - and which you may be better off utilising in some other manner, that benefits you, and not others.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 19:23

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 19:23
Hi Ron

Totally agree 100% with what you have just said.


Cheers


Stephen
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 23:18

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 23:18
"I come here to glean a bit of info, give some hard-earned info in return, in a "like-for-like" move - and if David and Michelle can build a business and make some money onselling the forum information or client base here, then good luck to them."

Is David flogging this info off to others for a huge profit or do we just have a common database that is shared by other IT Beyond hosted forums that we all use and contribute to?
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Reply By: Sigmund - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 19:11

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 19:11
"Moral rights are personal legal rights that cannot be assigned. However an author can consent to have their moral rights infringed."

Source: http://www.nteu.org.au/policy/research/ip#General_IP_Questions_3
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 19:26

Sunday, Aug 21, 2016 at 19:26
Hi Sigmund


Thanks for that.



Cheers


Stephen
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 16:26

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 16:26
Stephen,

An acquaintance is a freelance pro photographer. I sought his advice on this issue as I post some of my own captures on another forum. It was that in the case of photos any general statement that postings were owned by the website owners had no legal force. It's different from text.

But I guess your concern is whether others are republishing your contributions for profit without your knowledge or consent. That's been partly addressed in posts below.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 21:20

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 21:20
Cheers again Sigmund



Stephen
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 01:11

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 01:11
I remember from somewhere way back that David & Michelle were asked by Bushtraker to build their forum for them.
They obviously use the EO site template and just change the colours and headings etc to suit the respective site.
They do the same for their Triathalon site.

I.T. Beyond Pty Ltd owns the database that EO is built upon and they obviously wear all the costs in supporting that database, severs, maintenance, bandwidth etc etc.
Clearly I.T. Beyond is receiving a fee to build and manage the BOG site and its incorporated into the database shell that EO is built upon.

Given the BOG site has about 400 members paying about $50- membership, I don't think anyone is getting rich out of it.
I think you will find that the BOG members are no different to EO members, it's just they access EO via a customised site.

I think it's great that a small enterprising Aussie family business is out there having a go and trying to survive in a very testing market.
If they can lever off their existing business model and survive then they get my support.

Stephen, you contribute a powerhouse of great information that helps all travelers regardless of where they come from, what about all the overseas non financial members that access your contributed information as one example?
Please don't stop your contributions, I for one appreciate your input.

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 09:04

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 09:04
Hi John

I agree with hat you say, but it also comes down to any team Is only as good as your players.

EO is no different and as good as management is, if you do not get support from its members with quality input, then it will suffer just like any other organisation. Seeing members information Is being used as a tool, and a very good one at that, then there should be rewards for those that help to make this site the best.

I am a fussy bugger, and like things to be dead accurate on maps, that is why I Like to have the input that I have been doing and when you se your information on another site, it does give you the.....

Look at the image above. To some it might just be a big stone survey cairn, but what many do not know, is that is the most important survey cairn in Australia. Why should I add this to the places database for non EO members to get the benifit from with no reward for me?

I am not asking for big financial returns, but full recognition to those that supply such information should be given, why, well it the members that supply the vital information, go out of there way to capture the data, then to see it show up in on another web site as "their" places.

As I said all the way, I am not having ago at the BOG, as they are paying for that data, but in return, those that help out should be rewards.

Like I said, I will most likely still add data to existing places, but fell reluctant to add any more valuable new places until things change.


Thanks for your reply.



Cheers




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Reply By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:10

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:10
Stephen,

The BOG (Bushtracker Owners Group) are an Australian 'Not for Profit' that have been incorporated to provide a non business operated (ie: not run by Bushtracker the company) club for people that travel Australia in the Bushtracker Caravan.

I.T. Beyond has for over 10 years worked with this group to provide forum and website services. These services have been provided at not much more than cost to this association in the view to being able to enhance our business and database services. A few years back I proposed that the BOG adopt a parallel copy of our site like TriathlonOz in order to reduce my costs of maintenance and to provide a more open sharing and data collection platform.

I can assure you that the I.T. Beyond monthly revenue from the BOG is less than 2 hours of my consulting time and has been done in the best interests of being able to collect more relevant travel data for our collective user base.

We have been working on a rewards system for the EO platform however at present and in the market as it is now we have had to divert our energies to revenue generation as shop revenue is almost non existent, advertising revenue is about 1/3 - 1/4 it was 2 years ago it is getting very difficult. We have not increased our membership pricing, not introduced credit card charges and still try to offer a really good platform to all our users.

We had hoped the BOG association may have provided us with other customer opportunities for our software platform however this has not eventuated.

It is a shame there is not more we can offer but in the market right now we are happy that we are still in business.

David
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Reply By: Member Kerry W (WA) - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:12

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:12
Amazing! - EO is a unique resource and has the potential to have the most comprehensive Australian map resource available.
Thats gotta cost a lot to keep up and running.
It has been a labour of love for most - if not all of its existence.

Why? Because Michelle and David took the risk and applied their passion and knowledge for well over a decade to make EO what it is now.
It has always been a 2 way street we use the info on the site and the site uses our info to be more useful and accurate for all users.

Sharing our data because EO enabled us to do so!

Sharing has made this resource what it is - keep it in perspective!


Lets face it David is a genius as far a website development goes.
What is the reward for pulling all this together??
Why go into business at all?

Does anybody have an idea of the monthly Data bill EO attracts?? It is huge.

Rather than resent that EO may make good profit one day - imagine what the site could do with more financial resources to make it even better...Imagine "Augmented reality", VR Tours - it already has the most advanced Road Conditions report in the world - can be updated in the field in real time by anyone given access to the system e.g. Park rangers, councils, police, remote station owners, roadhouse owners - just sitting there ready to be funded - wow who knew that??

If anyone believes that they have data, info or skills that can make this site better than it already is - I reckon they could always ask for a job. (pay in lieu of the value of the contribution of course)!

Kerry W (Qld)
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 20:14

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 20:14
Stephen,

This is a plea for you to reconsider your proposal to no longer add to Places on EO, and I presume, related areas such as Treks.

It is through contributions such as yours and a few other knowledgeable and dedicated EO travellers and explorers who post their findings here, that others like myself are able to become aware of and assess the practicalities of visiting remote but significant places of history and interrest in our great land.

Sure, there are other sources of information out there, but what you post here on EO is particularly relevant to what this community is all about.

You, Mick O, The Explorer and others to varying degrees have prompted me to broaden my horizons and ask about treks and places that I might otherwise have not known about or been unwilling to attempt. Based on your reports and forum input, I have gone places that otherwise I would not.

You and your cohorts are an inspiration and a motivation. If I feel that way then I'm sure there are many others who do as well.

Please don't retreat into a shell

Best Regards

Frank
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 20:47

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 20:47
Hi Frank

Trust me EO is my life and it keeps me out of Fiona's hair....lol

If I went into a nut shell I would be able to share many great places like a new four wheel drive track in the Northern Flinders.

As they say, you guys are mates that I do dot know in person and I would never let my mates down.

Cheers and keep an eye out for new details of the new great track.


Stephen

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Reply By: Motherhen - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 22:55

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 22:55
Hi Stephen, when we post on EO, not only members, but all the world, can read it anyway.

ExplorOz is completely cloned as http://www.4wdaustralia.com.au/. Check out this thread on it.



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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 23:08

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 23:08
Hi Motherhen

Thanks for that and I wonder just how many more clones are out there?

This is the only site that I ever post on, and if it was not for the fact that I was trying to get information on a place that I have been trying to get to, and stumbled across the BOG site, I would have been none the wiser.



Safe Travels


Stephen
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 09:14

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 09:14
Oh dear Stephen, you really do need to get out more lol - out into cyberspace that is. Apart from the fact that the site (and others on the same platform) are David and Michelle's business, times have changed a lot since EO started. Where once EO was almost a unique source of info for the kind of things that interest us, that is now far from the case. Have a look at the number of Facebook pages catering to the same demographic - there are hundreds, maybe thousands of them, many with thousands of members. Not that they are very useful because the info they contain is not organised or checked. But they cater to those who are too time poor or lazy to do more than ask a quick question. But its easy to see that the business environment in which EO now operates is vastly different and difficult from the one it started out in. Of course David and Michelle will be looking to capitalise on every opportunity to keep their business going.

As for the worth of an individual photo - its estimated that something in the vicinity of 1.8billion photos are uploaded every single day. Most of them are probably rubbish, but even so you can work out the chances of any one photo having a monetary or equivalent value. And in a similar vein, how many professional photographers, photo-journalists and journos have lost their jobs because now so many internet sites use free content in place of articles that used to be paid for. You and I, as blog writers have probably contributed to that trend.

I could go on but you get my point - the e-connected world has changed a lot of things including how we share "information". I think we should be grateful that David and Michelle have managed to continue to make the site viable so that it can continue for our mutual benefit and enjoyment.They are the ones who have taken the business and financial risks and done the hard yards of innovation - we have shared in that venture in full knowledge of the rules about IP, so there is really not much to complain about as far as I can see.

Cheers,

Val.
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 09:42

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 09:42
Hi Val

Last year I travelled with a professional photographer who did work for National Geographic and others. His business has been decimated by the online availability of photographs.

My own experience of putting up photos on my blog thelandy.com is that they are used widely, without my knowledge in most cases. These days I don’t concern myself too much about it, after all, my main aim is to share my experiences either through text or photographs. Mind you if I come across my work that is used commercially I do send them a note – but I don’t go looking for it.

And I concur wholeheartedly on your comments on EO.

Personally I take my hat off to David and Michelle to have the vision and drive to set this website up, and I’m sure the ongoing cost of its maintenance is something that is forefront of mind for them.

I enjoy contributing, and I’m sure many others, like Stephen and yourself, are similar – and that is what makes EO unique and relevant. It is important that contributions continue as it is the heart and soul of the site. Many see it simply as a “forum” but it is far more than that…

I hope the David and Michelle can find ways to monetise this site as a way to offset the costs of running it – we won’t truly know what we have until it has gone.

Cheers, Baz
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Reply By: Motherhen - Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 23:15

Monday, Aug 22, 2016 at 23:15
It is the Martin's business Stephen, and as per the conditions The Landy posted, they can do this sort of business transaction.

Motherhen

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Reply By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 19:22

Tuesday, Aug 23, 2016 at 19:22
If it doesn't already happen, perhaps it would appease people if the contributions were acknowledged on each site, ie submitted by StephenL from ExplorOz? I would hope that places submitted by members on the other sites are available here and duly acknowledged as well. A more open approach would give a feeling of an extended family of sites rather than what appear to be opposition sites, and perhaps not provoke the reaction it has from someone who is a very loyal and valued contributor.
AnswerID: 603755

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