GPS co-ordinates - try looking 5 foot further north

Submitted: Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 13:35
ThreadID: 133700 Views:3569 Replies:7 FollowUps:15
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It seems our GPS units are taking us to the wrong spot ... they may be out by about 5 foot.

Australia keeps moving - but the scientists are working on a way to fix it (the GPS co-ordinates issue) :D

http://www.thisisinsider.com/continent-of-australia-has-shifted-2016-8?utm_content=buffer4e028&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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Reply By: Sigmund - Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 13:43

Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 13:43
Ah, that explains why I keep getting lost.
AnswerID: 605556

Reply By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 14:03

Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 14:03
The link does not work for me, either by clicking on it or by copy and pasting it.

Again I say, Please, please use the 'Link' box at the bottom of the message box so your link will actually work.
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 14:26

Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 14:26
Copy and Paste worked for me Rod.

Anyway, I have done as you could have and inserted the link below.

The Insider article
Bill


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Follow Up By: Member - LG__ (WA) - Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 18:35

Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 18:35
Sorry Rod, didn't see a link box, didn't know I needed to use one.
Normally use a different platform.

Thanks Bill, for supplying the required link in the required format. I will try and remember for future :)
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Reply By: Neil & Pauline - Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 14:22

Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 14:22
You need to pay money each year to get within 2cm. With a 5 foot gap the farmers seeding and spraying would leave gaps.
I find that within 5 feet I can usually see where to go when driving.
Such is life. To continue plagerising "life was not meant to be easy".

Neil
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Follow Up By: Member - LG__ (WA) - Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 18:40

Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 18:40
snip " I can usually see where to go when driving "

Made me think of the story about the bloke who drove in to a lake "because the navigation unit said 'continue straight on for 500m' "

Some mothers do have 'em hehehehe
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Reply By: The Bantam - Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 19:45

Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 19:45
So they have revised the datum ...... nothing new, no big deal they do this from time to time....... the resolution of the typical domestic GPS ... is claimed as 7.8 meters with 95% certainty in good conditions.

cheers
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 20:54

Monday, Oct 31, 2016 at 20:54
I guess when you take into account that the surface of our planet is moving relative to a point not on earth (such as a satellite not in geo stationary orbit) at something like 1700 kph and that translates into about 1/2 of a kilometer per second our GPS system isn't doing a bad job of calculating our current and moving position.
In addition to that, as one Albert Einstein brought to our attention some time ago, an object in motion experiences a slowing down of elapsed time for that object. The faster the velocity, the greater the time lapse. Our GPS satellites in addition to calculating our ever moving position on the surface of the earth must contend with the fact that time for them is ever so slightly different for us on terra firma.

All that considered I reckon they don't do too bad a job without having to also take into consideration continental drift.

And then of course there is the system used by various military, which can work to much finer tolerances.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Nov 03, 2016 at 19:42

Thursday, Nov 03, 2016 at 19:42
That's not the end of it Pop.

The Vernal Equinox takes about 25770 years to make one complete cycle - you must take this into account.

What about the obliquity of the ecliptic compared to the rotational axis of the earth. Currently it's about 23.439° but varies plus or minus over about 41000 years - you must take this into account.

Then you have the perihelion of the Earth's orbit completing one cycle every 21000 years (Anomalistic Year) - definitely take this into account.

The eccentricity of the Earth's orbit varies over a period of 100000 years - dont forget that in any calculations.

lol, just joking - don't worry about it!!!

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Nov 05, 2016 at 15:30

Saturday, Nov 05, 2016 at 15:30
Hey this is all important stuff that has to be taken into account when we are trying to determine just where we are.

In addition to the above we must also take into our GPS calculations that our solar system is not stationary. Our sun and planets are orbiting a point in our galactic center. Some rather clever individual, or more likely group of individuals, has worked out that our little star and it's associated group of planets takes something like 225,000,000 years, travelling at 792,000 kl/hr to complete one revolution relative to the aforementioned center of our galaxy.
Now add to that, the fact that relative to a term of reference called the CBR or cosmic background radiation and using a Doppler method, it appears that our whole barred spiral galaxy is travelling through the intergalactic void at 210,000,000 kl/hr (give or take) and heading towards an area of the observable universe known as the "Great Attractor".

Tell ta what mate, it ain't just all this galactic stuff that's spinning. My head is starting to hurt just thinking about where we really are and where we might wind up. Although even at that great rate of knots the journey is going to take quite a few "are we there yets" to complete. (;=))

Cheers
Pop
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Reply By: Member - LG__ (WA) - Wednesday, Nov 02, 2016 at 00:01

Wednesday, Nov 02, 2016 at 00:01
SNIP: So now, scientists are planning to revamp all of Australia’s coordinates by January 2017. They intend to plot new points at a longitude and latitude scaled 5.9 feet to the north, which is actually an overcompensation —but just wait, the country’s mapped coordinates should align with the rest of the planets by 2020.
After 2020, a new system will take over and it will continually adjust with the shifts in the plates over time. End Snip

Will we need to update all the co-ordinates we have noted for things like 'turn left onto Blahs Track at Lat/Long X, Y' ?
I am wondering, if I have given directions in ExplorOz to say that the waterhole/campground/best pub etc... can be found at X Lat, Y Long ... will those co-ordinates still be correct after the January 2017 'revamp' of plot points.

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Nov 02, 2016 at 10:54

Wednesday, Nov 02, 2016 at 10:54
Hi

Theoretically all coordinates recorded in the past will be out by varying amounts (depending how long ago they were recorded) as Australia has moved northwards (and still is)...

..however given the difference between the new datum and the old ones (WGS84/GDA94) is only a few metres you won't notice the difference (for your average 4WD activity). If you are are concerned just take two steps to the north and you'll be in the right spot :)

The creation of the new datum is more aimed at people such as surveyors etc who need good accuracy.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Wednesday, Nov 02, 2016 at 21:50

Wednesday, Nov 02, 2016 at 21:50
LG, are you for real? They are shifting the co-ords by 1.8 metres but as The Bantam said:

"So they have revised the datum ...... nothing new, no big deal they do this from time to time....... the resolution of the typical domestic GPS ... is claimed as 7.8 meters with 95% certainty in good conditions."

As your navigator is lucky to locate you within 7.8 meters why are you worried about the new maps being 1.8 metres out?
PeterD
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Follow Up By: Member - LG__ (WA) - Thursday, Nov 03, 2016 at 12:40

Thursday, Nov 03, 2016 at 12:40
Hey PeterD
I'm always 'for real' mate. Don't have time to mess about being any thing but...

My original post did mention needing to move '5 foot to the North' due to the Earths movement. I am aware the GPS units can't pinpoint your EXACT location.

What caught my attention the most was the revamping next year, and the introduction of an entire new system in 2020 (assuming I understood the article correctly)

Sorry if my question caused you any angst. I will return to sitting quietly in the corner saying nothing to nobody.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Thursday, Nov 03, 2016 at 20:51

Thursday, Nov 03, 2016 at 20:51
There has already been a thread on this LG.

No there is no plan for an entirely new system in 2020, GA has simply decided to use the projected numbers for that year as of Jan 2017. It will take a few years before the plate movement catches up to the numbers being used - assuming similar rates of continental plate shift over the next few years of course. If however Trump gets elected in the good old USA there may need to be an immediate and drastic review.

Geoscience Australia notification of datum shift
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Follow Up By: Member - LG__ (WA) - Friday, Nov 04, 2016 at 00:23

Friday, Nov 04, 2016 at 00:23
No new system at all? That will teach me for believing something I saw in an online news article :)

"After 2020, a new system will take over and it will continually adjust with the shifts in the plates over time. We used the old plate fixed system to make life simple, but we don’t want to do this adjustment every so often,” Dan Jaksa of Geoscience Australia told the BBC.
“Once we have a system that can deal with changes over time, then everybody in the world could be on that same system.”
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, Nov 04, 2016 at 12:25

Friday, Nov 04, 2016 at 12:25
Sorry. I thought you were suggesting an entirely new co-ordinate system, not a change to the way adjustments are done to the datum.
Here's the background to the new arrangements:
Australian Datum Modernisation
Note the FAQs at the bottom
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Follow Up By: Member - LG__ (WA) - Saturday, Nov 05, 2016 at 13:22

Saturday, Nov 05, 2016 at 13:22
Thanks for the link Bazooka.
I will take a stroll through the info after the weekend :)
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, Nov 04, 2016 at 10:59

Friday, Nov 04, 2016 at 10:59
.
Will we need to change our battery charging algorithm? lol
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Allan

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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Sunday, Nov 06, 2016 at 10:40

Sunday, Nov 06, 2016 at 10:40
Algorithm isn't a bad attempt, but I don't think you are allowed to post in this thread if anyone can understand any of the words you are typing....
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Nov 06, 2016 at 12:27

Sunday, Nov 06, 2016 at 12:27
Allan, are you trying to start another WW3 12 volt thread?

I think you're just a mischief maker :-)
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Nov 06, 2016 at 14:27

Sunday, Nov 06, 2016 at 14:27
.
Qui moi?
Cheers
Allan

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