Dogs in the deserts

Submitted: Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 11:38
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Been looking but it is hard to put together a quick overview on just where you can and cant travel with your pooch in the deserts.

How many of you travel with a dog and how much does it restrict you from doing popular tracks and crossings?
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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 12:28

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 12:28
Hi qldcamper, we travel with our dogs all the time. Basically, the restriction is that you cannot let your dogs out of the vehicle in National Parks or Conservation Reserves & you cannot camp in these parks with your dog.. Transiting these parks with dogs is permitted, however they must remain in the vehicle at all times. Check the NPWS website.

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 12:54

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 12:54
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Macca, The regulations vary from State-to-State and even Park-to-Park, so you may need to check thoroughly.
As an example, Rules for the Simpson Desert state "No pets allowed in this Park". What part of "No" do you perceive as being "permitted"?
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 13:31

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 13:31
SA National Parks regulations.....
https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/R/NATIONAL%20PARKS%20AND%20WILDLIFE%20(NATIONAL%20PARKS)%20REGULATIONS%202001/2001.10.31_(2001.09.01)/2001.200.PDF
"Bringing animals into reserve
27. (1) Subject to this regulation, a person who has control of an animal must not, without the permission of the Director, bring it into a reserve or permit it to enter a reserve."
I reckon that is pretty clear.
There is nothing about in cars or out of cars or transiting.
There are a few parks where dogs are specifically permitted.

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Reply By: Motherhen - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 14:07

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 14:07
Where ever you go in areas dogs are permitted, your dog should be on a lead. Be aware of poison baiting which in outlying areas is done by plane, so is is easy for a dog sniffing around to pick up a fatal dose of 1080 poison.

As stated, dogs are not permitted in national parks and in many other conservation areas. If you are on a public road, you may travel with your dog in the car. If you are on a road within the park which is a parks road not a general road, not pets in cars are permitted.

With above cautions, popular tracks should not present a problem, so long as your are travelling and not camping in national and conservation parks.
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 14:33

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 14:33
So crossing the simpson with a dog is legally out of the question then?
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 16:30

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 16:30
Correct.

See this link and scroll down to Pets in Parks.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 23:51

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 23:51
"So crossing the simpson with a dog is legally out of the question then?"

Legally, morally and sensibly out of the question in fact.

If you want to be with your dog. Stay away.

Tony
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 09:59

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 09:59
Think the OP was looking for advice rather than instructions.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 21:28

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 21:28
Here is one for the learned Simpson Desert people that know the desert like me......

"Can I take my dog into the Simpson Desert".......and everyone has it wrong.

All the Simpson Desert in not National Park, Conservation Park or Regional Reserve, with many sections either Aboriginal or Crown Land.

So now what can you all say?

The below photo was taken on one of our real Simpson Trips 12 years ago......no tracks for nearly 400 Kilometres and in then "Crown Land" Now how many can say they have been here with a Dog?

Do you know where it is?


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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 09:20

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 09:20
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Hi Stephen,


..."everyone has it wrong. So now what can you all say?"

Well, same as I said in my Reply below.......
From "Simpson Desert Conservation Park and Regional Reserve" webpage:
"Pets in parks..... Pets are not permitted within this park."
(Repeated in the Handbook)

Outside the Park?.... yeah, sure, or maybe if it is private or leased property.
On my front lawn?..... Rather not! lol
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 09:59

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 09:59
Stephen,

I am sure very few people know the Simpson and desert country better than you. And of course, lots of the Simpson Desert isn't in a park. But the OP did ask about popular tracks, and they are all in Conservation, National or Reserve parks. and as Allan B points out, dogs are not permitted there.

I'm not a fan of taking domestic pets into these remote regions. Look at the damage cats are doing to the eastern parts of the Simpson.




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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 10:05

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 10:05
Thanks for that Stephen, other than the fact that dogs are not allowed in the parks which I already knew, you are the only person other than Steve that has offered a useful alternative, I also appreciate the input of some members members about the 1080 which is something I had forgotten about.

Other than that this thread has gone the way of most others, just giving the same few guys a chance to prove their google skills and contradict everything anyone says. Gone are the days people draw off real life experiences as you have because they are sick of the armchair experts picking them to pieces and trying to prove what you have already done is not possible.

30 plus posts for a couple of useful bits of information, gotta love forums.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 10:15

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 10:15
Hi Allan

As we all know, the Simpson Desert is the largest parallel sand desert in the world and spans 3 states, with the largest section of desert in the Northern Territory..

The Simpson Desert Regional Reserve and Conservation Park in South Australia is a very long way from where my photo is taking in the Simpson Desert at Geosurverys Hill, when it was still all Crown Land.

We were given access from Andado Station ( it was then the largest private family run cattle station in the Southern Hemisphere ) and it was the hardest Simpson trip we have ever done, with pure cross country travel.

We averaged only 30 kilometres per day and our slowest only 22 kilometres.
As they say, this Simpson trip required 18 months of planning and it took us to the very heart of the Simpson and in one place, I know we were only the second group of white people to have ever visited it.

Here are a few more images of what it was like.



Cheers



Stephen








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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 10:40

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 10:40
Hi Tony

I fully hear where you are coming from and and for every responsible pet owner that travels, there are alway some to have no respect and think it is their right to go anywhere.

As for my fun intended comment, I was just trying to say that there are parts of the Simpson that is not National Park, and if anyone is crazy enough to go into the very heart of if, where there are not tracks to follow, then yea you can have your pet with you.....lol

Now for cats and that is another animal that I can not stand, let alone in our deserts. I was reading years ago that the feral cats made their way into our very desert around 200 years before our first white explorers ever visited the central deserts.

Study has shown that the first cats that arrived in Australia are believed to have been in the 1600's as part of ship wrecks from the very early European Sea Explorers on the north west parts of our remote coast of Western Australia.

From then on, the rest is history and they should be the next pest that the Government should try to wipe out, before they eradicate our many endangered wildlife species.



Cheers



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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 11:53

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 11:53
Stephen, Geo Hill is still on crown land mate :)
For now.
Access to Geosurveys Hill and geo centre via the easier access from Madigan is effectively stopped now with new wording on their Madigan permit, if people respect the rules.

Other than that from French Line up isn't too bad, and in June / July last year we found it a relatively easy traverse from Colson the the hill, to the centre and out to FL.
Going the other way, not so easy as we found in 2015.
All that from Colson to the SA border is crown land still, so all good.

I think if you've got some reasonable previous crossings under your belt (SA sections, WA deserts etc), good desert routine / knowledge, nav skills etc, then Geos isn't overly hard.

Right now planning 12500km trip for June July, SA-WA coast, WA up to Pilbara, back through Alice, over through central QLD to Brissy, then home.
Biggest trip yet, even a service in there half way :)

Catch you later.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 12:23

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 12:23
Hi Les

Sounds like you are going to have an absolute ball.

When we did our Geo Trip in 2016, a lot of the desert had been burnt out by massive summer fires in late 2004 and early 2005. I lot of the smaller vegetation had been burnt out and the small stumps lay just below the surface, just waiting to puncture and vehicle that happened to drive over it.

While in the burnt out country, if we made it to morning smoko without a puncture, we were doing well and my best record was a picture within 15 of starting off for the day. Once clear of the burnt out area, there were very few puncture, thank goodness.

We did not take the cheats way down from the Madigan Line, but came in from the west from the Colson Track. The moment we crossed our very first dune heading east from the Colson, we were on a one way trip, as those pure virgin dunes mad a turn around retreat a total impossible task, with the only way out in an emergency to follow a seal south to the French Line.

What I meant by hard, I should have said just dam right slow, either first low or second, and if we got to a good patch of say a few metres where we could go into third, we were going fast...lol

The slowest section was from Geosurvey Hill to that lonely degree confluence, the day we could only manage 22 kilometres.


All the best for this years great trip.




Cheers



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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 14:19

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 14:19
Thanks Stephen, the Geo crew is on for WA, so it will be great, very much aligned travellers.

Yes, Colson east to the hill is a one way trip.
We tried other way in '15, and had fuel concerns, so bailed out oh about 6km short of the hill.
Good thing too, after going the 'right' way last year, we would have had big probs.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 14:22

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 14:22
Awesome photo's and I love the GPS coords, well done mate
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 14:43

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 14:43
Hi Bon

Thanks for that, and seeing you liked that remote Simpson Degree Confluence photo, here is another one that we did in the same trip, and I know that we were the first crazy white people to this remote, very out of the Simpson Confluence......lol



Cheers and al the Best


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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 14:52

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 14:52
very cool mate, I think we may have been brothers separated at birth ........ I thought I was the only one geeky with GPS like that! I even take mine overseas cause northern hemisphere is so ... different
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 15:12

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 15:12
Every time I see a Confluence point anywhere in central Australian - one name keeps coming up..........Stephen L. ......Errrrrgh....

Wow Stephen. What a trip. Did you do a trip report on that one and a GPS Log file.

Do you have any stats on fuel and tyres? THAT looks like it would have been a great trip.Was 30k a day taking it easy or long days?

Where did you come out?
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 17:22

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 17:22
Lol yes! What Boobook said, I'd like those questions answered too SL.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 20:31

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 20:31
Hi Tony and Bonz

I will start a new post, as we do not want to go off topic and get the Moderators off side....lol


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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 14:42

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 14:42
.
From "Simpson Desert Conservation Park and Regional Reserve" webpage:

"Pets in parks.....
Pets are not permitted within this park."

Cheers
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 15:05

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 15:05
yep, that's the line I came across when I thought id consult the fine people of this forum to see if there was a way around it, or if there is a track across the simpson which does not pass through a park.

Interesting that there are conflicting replies.

Have crossed various deserts dozens of times for work but would love to do it at ground level soon. Looks like we have to find dogsitters for a couple of weeks.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 15:29

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 15:29
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Yair, at $35 or more per day, boarding kennels become a significant cost of a holiday.

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Follow Up By: mike39 - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 18:28

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 18:28
If they catch you half way across what can they do?
Send you back out.... nah...I didn't come from that way, I came from this..
All pretty pathetic really when you consider the history of these locations.
Man and dog over many many years.
mike
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 18:31

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 18:31
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Shoot the dog? lol
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 19:38

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 19:38
They can actually hit you with a very significant on-the-spot fine.
There are always some that think the rules don't apply to them?

Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 20:17

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 20:17
Camped at Purni Bore a few years ago and we could see a dingo (or two) just outside the light from the camp.

Next morning there were dingo tracks all over the place, including quite close to tents.


Not the place for Rover.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 20:24

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 20:24
Having other people's dogs run up to you and lick you on the nuts, then crap next to your tent and bark all night is a normal part of a camping experience in a lot of places. Thankfully not in the desert. Hey, I'm sure the OP's dog isn't one of those....no offense, just speaking from experience. :-)
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Follow Up By: mike39 - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 20:27

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 20:27
Peter.
I really think there would be no one who would take a valued dog (aren't they always valued?) into any remote bush location and let it go running around free.
We have been to locations where we had to almost beg for a permit to take the dog through, but as one went along we noticed free range town dogs running everywhere.
Its a bit like the attitude of the Northern NSW NPWS philosophy of "pristine coast" when actually the full length of it was pond dredged mined for minerals.
Then planted Bitou bush to cover up the mining works, now spray Monsanto chemicals all over it to try and hide their stuff ups.
I don't believe there is any spot in the country where man and his dog have not ventured
Close the parks to idiots and the jerks running them, not responsible dog owners.
Cheers.. mike
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 20:33

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 20:33
May 2017, Dalhousie.
That's no dingo.....

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Peter
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 21:25

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 21:25
"I don't believe there is any spot in the country where man and his dog have not ventured
Close the parks to idiots and the jerks running them, not responsible dog owners.
Cheers.. mike"

Mike39, the problem is that some of the idiots and jerks are also dog owners too.
There is good reason that domestic animals are not allowed in conservation areas, heck us humans are having enough trouble getting access to some of them these days
I am a dog owner too but leave him at home when travelling as I understand and accept the rules.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 21:50

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 21:50
Hi Peter

Look to me like a very rare albino bob tail dingo.....lol

I bet those poor people were fearing for their life.



Cheers



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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 21:59

Friday, Jan 19, 2018 at 21:59
Our dog travels with us. Dingoes dont bother us and he is not bothered with them. The only place we had dingoes come anywhere near was near Ularu. We dont normally camp in popular spots so there are not much chance of dingoes hanging around
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Reply By: Steve in Kakadu - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 00:21

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 00:21
Seeing eye dogs, hearing dogs, companion dogs and assistant dogs are allowed in National Parks. There are conditions to abide by and it is always a good idea to let the park management and or rangers know you intend to travel their park before entering, this is purely a courtesy call.

There is a lot of paperwork and certain conditions for applying for a companion/ assistant dog, however, it may be well worth it to travel with the mutt on your trip of a life time.

I suggest you now do some research and find out how you will go.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:49

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:49
A companion dog has no legal access rights under the Disability Discrimination Act, whereas Service (assistance) animals are fully covered.

I have an Assistance Dog, and there are times when I leave her behind due to the negativity of the general public.
Without her my hypervigilance goes into overdrive, will be taking her to the National Gathering in September.

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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 12:02

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 12:02
You can take companion dogs into a national park, just let the rangers know, have your paper work handy in case you are asked and do the right thing while you are there.
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 14:24

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 14:24
A companion dog is classed as a pet, with no legal access rights.

Must be an Accredited Service/Assistance dog to be able to have unrestricted access.


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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 14:31

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 14:31
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Kev, Even if you are in possession of the facts, it can be difficult to convince someone who "Just Knows"
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 17:06

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 17:06
Allan,

Education is the key :)

I have had a very steep learning curve since I have had my Assistance Dog, it can be very intimidating taking an Assistance Dog into some establishments and having to argue with uneducated staff and general public in Access rights of Assistance Animals.

Cheers Kev
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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 20:25

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 20:25
My apologies for my poor response to your post Kev.
You are quite correct with the terms above and that a companion dog is not within the terms you have stated, I should have noted this as such.
However, if you wish to take a registered comanion dog into a national park you do need too seek permission first.
In my experience, I have gained and or given permission for someone to bring a registered companion dog into Kakadu. However, the person bringing the dog has to abide by regulation 12. 19A subregulation 3 of the EPBC Act and carry all paperwork to prove the dogs status.
The owner would get a permission email and our rangers and compliace team would be made aware or the person and their dogs visit, this is purerly as a courtesy.
There have been occations when a tradie may be doing a long term project within the park and own a dog, in this instance a permit is required and the permission and permit is given by park management, should they deem it apropriate.
I hope this clears things up, and to make this even clearer. I am a ranger under the EPBC Act and I am able to enforce the EPBC Act and it's regulations.
Cheers
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Reply By: qldcamper - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 09:30

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 09:30
The question was asked, and it was answered both correctly and incorrectly which is fairly normal in forums.
It is also fairly normal for some members to assume that I am going to disregard the rules and make posts inferring such which then leads the thread into an attack on the OP because of some d**kheads assumption.

As to getting the dog registered as a service dog, this is also immoral, I know people have done it (most likley false paperwork off the net) and whats more get away with it, how dumb would a ranger be if he couldn't tell the difference between an immaculately trained service dog that can cost up to $25000.00 and the average pet. People that do this are probably the people that don't bother to get their pets immunized either.

Yes it would be good to avoid the cost of kennels but not worth being the possible cause of a disease epidemic in whats left of the dingo population.
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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:40

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:40
There is nothing immoral about getting your dog registered as a companion dog, however, you do need a doctors certificate and a vet certificate and it is certainly not worth $25000.

As someone who actually works for Australia's largest National Park and has a friend who has a companion dog, I think I know what I am talking about and the reason why I said do some research.

A simple thank you would have sufficed, I wont bother you again with any correct answers.

Cheer

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:53

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 11:53
Steve, I don't think your last comment was very fair. If you had explained your position in a little more detail in your original response, I think qldcamper would have understood where you were coming from.

No offence intended in this reply.

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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 12:11

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 12:11
McLaren 3030 I wasn't going to write volumes at mid night last night, however, I did ask the OP to do some research.

Had the OP done a little research and got some informed answers before he gave his miss-informed rant about my advice, my response would have been very different.

Cheers.

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Follow Up By: Sir Kev - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 14:46

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 14:46
As stated above, a Companion Dog is a PET and not legally required to have access.

Yes your terminology may be different but in this case, Steve, he may call it a companion but in effect it is actually a Service/Assistance Dog.
It is a long process to gain accreditation to have a Service/Assistance Dog, both via Medical Professionals and also the relevant Accreditation bodies who oversee the training and performance of the dog. The waiting lists for a recipient to get a dog from an organisation is long.

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Reply By: William P - Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 15:31

Saturday, Jan 20, 2018 at 15:31
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Reply By: William P - Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 12:03

Sunday, Jan 21, 2018 at 12:03
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