Camper trailer & Subaru Outback

We looked at buying a diesel Subaru Forester about 4 years ago but discounted the idea fairly quickly. The towing capacity of 1500 kg did not match the maximum towball download of 100kg (IIRC) and the hitch construction could not be used with a WDH. So, really only suitable for towing a very light trailer which might fall apart on rougher dirt roads.

My Son has a Pod Camper and I give it a thumbs up.

Thank you for the wise counsel. I will do some more research.

Regard. Victor.

Met up with a couple towing a low-line A-line van behind an '07 Forester out near Gascoyne Junction a couple of years back. Asked how the Foz handled it, he said "no worries".

I've got a Pod All Roader, it's light and goes anywhere . Not exactly a camper trailer though, it's an off road trailer. I've seen them with roof tents but it costs an arm and a leg to strengthen the lid. Great for carrying all the gear, even something like an Oztent RV5.

Now now Stan, I am very disappointed with you, promoting your sons camper, what about the one you have…..shame on you.

Wait until I see you at the Ultimate Muster, I must have to chastise you…..lol

100% agree Stephen, being an Ultimate owner for 20+ years. My only reservation was the off-ground height of the Ultimate. Would put it at quite a forward angle on a lower car I would think, even with a raised tow hitch. The bottom of my hitch is just on 500mm high, and even then the camper isn't quite level.

Great camper !!! Have just been out again in ours, and wouldn't swap it for anything else.
Cheers
Jim

We are still on the road and been away for 3 months, as you know they are just brilliant.

If you are on the Ultimate forum, there are a number of members that tow with small vehicles.

Now I better tell Stan off….lol

Tvans & Ultimates are in a class of their own. Each different to the other - We chose a Tvan & would do so again. The choice is around design, not capability. I think both would be too heavy for the Subaru though, & they are both lightweight for off road campers.

I did see an elderly couple in their 80's towing a 'l'il Nipper caravan once, with two kayaks on the top of the car, but not off the bitumen.

A word about Subaru outbacks. We were in the Limmen National Park & had to ask a ranger for the code on the padlock to access the track down to the Western Lost Cities. Before giving it to us he wanted to know what we were driving. Once he had given us the code he confided "We only do that to stop the folk in Subarus going out there & getting themselves bogged in the soft sand at the end" . When we got to the end we were suprised, soft sand was minimal & I would have thought a subaru would have managed it. We did see a subaru outback (petrol) on the Old Telegraph Track, but i definitely would not want to buy that vehicle after how I saw it being used.

Hi Cuppa

Not sure why you say an Ultimate would be too heavy? There are a number of members on the Ultimate forum that own Subarus and tow them with ease.


45 kg ball weight and 800 kg dry, they are as light as a feather with everything inside, full kitchen, lounge, fridge and a king size bed

As you say each to there own and know there is one member here that once owned a T Van, jumped ship and went over to an Ultimate.

It's quite possible I am mistaken Stephen. Some years since we made our decision to get a Tvan rather than an Ultimate, & I thought I recalled them both being about the same weight.

Our 2010 Mk 2 Tvan has a dry weight of 800kg (later ones are heavier). For us, fully laden/travel ready the weight is around 1200kg (axle limit of 1400kg) & tow ball weight between 105kg & 110kg.

The 45kg towball weight on the Ultimate would, I assume be with it empty, & would of course vary according to the load & weight distribution of the load.

From observation of our next door neighbours at Mt Elizabeth Station packing up their Ultimate it appeared that most of their storage was at the front in that big hatch. Surely that would have to add considerably to tow ball weight? If a Subaru has a towball weight limit of 100kg I'd say it would make it's suitability marginal at best. I dare say that either the Tvan or Ultimate could be towed by a Subaru, but only if very little was carried in either. Possible for short trips but not so practical for longer trips, particularly those more remote which both campers are ideal for.

After a number of years travelling as we do the two most suitable choices remain in our mind the Ultimate or the Tvan. We are envious of the Ultimate's indoor dining, but not of the additional canvas & the inability to set up as we often do without deploying any canvas at all.

I advocate the purchase of either camper if long distance off grid outback travel is contemplated, but if that is what is wanted then I'd also advocate a change of tow vehicle. If the goal is shorter timeframe trips closer to 'civilisation' with a preparedness to top up supplies every few days then perhaps the Subaru may suffice.

Hi again Cuppa

Yes you are correct re the weights, yes they are the dry weights.

The nose cone in the Ultimates is around 1200 litres, so yes it will depend on what people do carry in their individual campers.

The additional canvas is not an issue for us, as they are extremely quick to set up, knowing that we have everything inside, just like a mini home, in fact we call ours our little cubby house.

Another Australian made camper that owners are happy with are the Cub Campers, but to be honest I don’t know anything about them.

How do the T-Van and the Ultimate compare for a wet weather pack-up? I've only looked closely at the Ultimate, but had the impression that the T-Van had the advantage in this regard. Ditto for staying warm on cool nights.

Briste - hard to know for certain without having owned both. But I too would think the Tvan has the advantage.

If it promises to be wet when we are setting up our Tvan, we often don't deploy the canvas, just get into bed & have the rear 'door' in it's halfway down position. It can blow a gale & we still stay dry inside.

On the occasions when we've had the tent out & it has got wet, packing up the wet canvas hasn't been much different to usual, just a bit less pleasant because it's wet (& a bit heavier). Packing away wet canvas is not one of my favourite things, but in this comparison - the Tvan has less of it to pack away , & significantly it does not pack up over the bed, so when we have had to pack away a soaking tent, it has never made things wet inside. It also doesn't have any external poles/framework to disengage & is a faster exercise. Like any set up familiarity born of experience makes any pack up easier, & the Tvan is no exception. Easy for one provided you have moderate ability to lift the canvas. Easier still for two. From beginning the packing of the tent to being drive-ready would average us no more than 5 minutes without rushing, when we are in regular travel mode. A tad longer if we are 'out of practice'. Wet or dry doesn't really affect those times.

Re staying warm. We once had an electric blanket, but gave it away. If we travelled a lot in colder climates I would fit a diesel heater. As it is the coldest we have experienced has been minus 6 at Hugh River in the West Macs. After being too cold outside standing around a fire (one side semi warm, but the side facing away from the fire freezing within moments of turning around) we climbed into bed under the doona & a wool blanket on top of that, almost fully clothed, pulled the hatch down to it's almost closed position ..... & had a comfortable night. A number of folk use a blanket on sailtrack across the opening, which makes a big difference to the warmth in the bedroom when the tent is deployed. We also learned that as well as not being an attractant to various bush critters, that sliding the kitchen away before going to bed makes quite a difference to warmth inside during cold weather.

Don't let this be read as 'Ultimate bashing' though - there are good reasons to pick either, any choice is a compromise, a shame it simply isn't possible to combine the main positives of both.

This question is another one that can have 2 very different answers.

With the Ultimate, everything is how you see it with no extra add ons as such, so the person inside doing the pack up will stay dry. Unlike the T Van that is basically a bed under the main shell, the Ultimate has everything inside, kitchen, lounge, food lockers, pantry, cloths storage etc.

If it is very wet, before the kitchen end is put down, we lay a canvas sheet over the lounge and mattress to keep them dry.

The person outside, which is me uses the Rod to push over the end, so if pouring, you will need a raincoat.

Having said that, it only takes minutes to pack up, so really not a big deal.

I can not comment on the T Van, but to be honest, I have never seen a bare one set up, they always have their canvas and hard floor set up, so looking from our personal observations, the Ultimate looks quicker, but I could be wrong.

With the TVan, most people use the canvas end with their camp chairs, so if you had to take putting these items away, you are still going to get just as wet or possibly even wetter, to makes the extra time to put things away.

Both type of campers have their own very faithful following, as they are both top brands.

Now to hear from TVan owners on their wet take downs.

Quote. Now to hear from TVan owners on their wet take downs. Unquote

You've heard from me on that.

Living in miserable weather, or when the biteys are out in force is another issue. It's when I am most envious of the Ultimate , or indeed of any accommodation with an indoor kitchen. It's one of the two main reasons we aspire to ownership of a truck based camper rather than a camper trailer with the inherent 'outdoor living style that goes with most of them. The Ultimate is the only exception to that rule I can think of. That said we have managed to avoid cold wet weather scenarios as much as we can by staying up north for the past 4 years, & house-sitting/caretaking to get a solid roof over our heads during wet season conditions.

Hopefully this thread may prove useful to anyone trying to decide between the Tvan & Ultimate, but may be less helpful to Victor who wasn't asking specifically about these two camper trailer.

Thank you gentlemen for those detailed answers. Pretty much what I thought. The dry bed of the T-van does seem to be an advantage, but only really in a minimal set-up. You still have to cook, and that's outside. Ultimately (pardon the expression in this context) they're both camper trailers and so wet weather pack-ups present issues for both, just slightly different ones. And by golly, isn't 2022 the year for wet weather pack-ups!! BTW, I camped next to a Cub Camper doing a wet pack-up a couple of months ago, and it wasn't something that I'd want to do - I think both the Ultimate and the T-Van would be better.

This won't be relevant to the OP, since it's too much for a Subaru, but I opted for a Karavan because of the wet canvas issue, and to get both inside and outside cooking. Actually the deal-clincher was the composting toilet. But I've camped near both recently, and have felt some pangs of regret, because I like the clever, minimalist designs of both. Choosing between them would be a tough one. Thank you.

Thanks again everyone. I have found the discussion in regards to the T Van and Ultimate very helpful . Contributors have raised matters that I simply did not consider. Wet weather being one and having to pack up wet canvas. Most of my camping experience has been outback WA (many years ago) and wet was not an issue! A lot to think about! Thanks again. Victor.

Here is another question that may (or may not) be relevant to Victor D. How easy are they for one person to set up and pack down? I've seen a lot of set-up videos for the Ultimate, but last I looked, pack-down videos are rarer, and TBH I got the impression that it would be a bit tricky for one person. Doubly so in the wet. Not so sure about the T-Van.

I think any camper trailer has issues, as from what I've observed, it's critical to ensure that all the canvas is carefully tucked away on multiple sides, and that is so much easier with two people. The Kimberly Karavan is a snap with one person, and even rolling up the awning isn't that hard on my own, but two people means there's less chance that something will be overlooked or forgotten.

I rarely pack ours up alone, but could if I had to, as could my wife. I have both back & rotator cuff (shoulder) issues which make lifting anything above my head difficult. Were it not for those issues I would suggest the packup for the Tvan, although a bit slower for one than two would be relatively easy.

As it is the hard bit for me is the lifting of the canvas high enough to attach it to the carabiner clip on each side. It could be done with the door in a lower position, but that would involve a bit more 'stooping' which my back wouldn't like.

With two of us it's easy. Wife goes under the canvas & pushes up with her shoulders relieving the 'weight' on the canvas & I can clip it home with ease.

It's a great site Victor with some very knowledgeable and very experienced people in many different ways - but please refrain from asking battery questions coz that's when the online arguments start lol lol.

Good luck with your new camper, whatever you buy, and enjoy your retirement !

Happy and safe travels

Cheers
Gazz

I have a Suzuki Vitara, that has a low weight restriction on the towball of 140kg, so I bought an early model Campomatic Hardfloor campertrailer, that has only a 30kg ball weight unladen, and 55kg, when I load up the box. It takes 11 seconds to open up, and you do not need to adjust the poles after, their already set, and it takes 2 minutes 10 seconds to winch it back up. All we do in wet weather is put a tarp over the bed and bedding. We also cook inside, if it is wet or freezing cold. Have had no problems doing that. Now any campomatic from 1980 thru to 1995, pretty much weighs less then 1200kg and ball weight is between 55 kg up to 95 kg loaded. Their are a few around for sale, but are fetching a pretty penny.