Kiwirrkurra Private & Restricted Areas

"Soon they will close everything."

By 'They' I presume you mean the owners of country which others have enjoyed their entitled sense of access to, & in doing so have cared little about the fact that their access has been a privilege & not a right. Sadly a privilege that too many have abused.

I feel there is criticism being expressed about people exercising their rights, where I think the criticism should be levelled at those who disrespect those rights.

I agree with you Cuppa but I do wonder whether this is something that the "No Vote" could use.

Ever been to a 'community?'
Hardly examples of caring for the land?

Agree ..isn't that the truth.

"Ever been to a 'community?'
Hardly examples of caring for the land?"

Banjo, yes I have been to many communities, some just passing through, & some for longer periods of time.
I learned that it is too easy to apply different cultural standards & leave with an inaccurate impression from 'passing through' visits. One often sees rubbish, unkempt gardens & dead cars but misses the real picture.

A classic case of 'telling a book by it's cover'. Of course it is wrong too to generalise, communities vary, just as white communities do.

However what I have learned from longer stays close to & in communities is that judgements made on 'first impressions' are invariably wrong & only serve to feed ignorant expectations.

There are many reasons for the 'mess' that white eyes see, mostly associated with social disadvantage & poverty. Some no doubt stems from inherited anger at being in that situation. A simple example. Overgrown & unkempt gardens may look like 'lack of care' but are more likely to be that garden tools & machinery are unavailable in the community & even if they were most could not afford them. Public areas of the township may be well kept - different funding unavailable to individuals.

Commonly it is claimed that aboriginal folk are *given* houses which they don't care for. Not quite true. Aboriginal people are not allowed to own houses on their own land in most cases. They must rent them. Let that sink in & consider how that might affect those living there. Those same people still retain much of their culture & connection to country & invariably display a very different attitude to caring for that country than they do to their impoverished & never able to be owned properties & provided infrastucture.

There are always many side to any story & your comment, whilst understandable fails to recognise this.

P.S my earlier comment was in reply to Maccas reply and no one else is in this thread

It is Very ANNOYING.. that you can't make changes to your follow-up comments :((

"It is Very ANNOYING.. that you can't make changes to your follow-up comments"

You can, but you have to do it before someone makes another followup. We don't have a quote feature in this forum but there are other ways of letting people know what you are commenting upon.

Peter D : thanks for y reply . It would better if we could make a change under a edit heading to your original comment .
I should have quoted who i was talking to but there was no other replies at that stage and my commet looked like i was replying to another , or at least be able to delete & repost
Im not sure of anyother way of letting people know ??

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Hi Nick, I consider it important to begin a response by addressing the name of the person you are responding to. If for no other reason than the possibility of someone else (who can type faster than myself) lodging a response before mine such that it then may appear my response is to him, rather than to whom I intended.
Besides that, I simply see it as good manners to address the recipient by name, especially when in company such as a forum. There are some on this forum who notably NEVER use another's name.

Thanks Allan : definitely a lesson learnt and yes I should address the person I am tending to comment on , it was only a quick comment , but as I am like you said not a fast typer and easily sidetracked.. cheers

Yair Nick, Using names seems particularly appropriate on this forum. As I have said before, EO forum tends to be a community, and often functions like a group sitting around a campfire chewing the fat. Maybe even with a bit of levity. It's good and I can feel somewhat dismayed when the conversation gets contentious.
Of course, I don't expect newcomers to always use names. In fact it can be hard to address them sometimes when it is a cryptic moniker!

JB .... An unnecessarily snide comment.

Off course yes, but not for the reason suggested.

Hi Cuppa.

I would have used 'ironic' but I won't recuse myself from 'snide' either.

But, I contest that you are being unnecessarily polemical.

I have closely re-read this thread, and also other threads you have contributed to previously. You have your views.

I have mine. Which re this thread is, that for the zillions spent over too many decades on remote area Indigenous welfare by mainstream taxpayers, not much gratitude is mostly shown.

(won't bore with pages of examples, and I mean many, many, pages ex decades of traveling, including instances of camps strewn with nappies and general garbage, cleaned up by non I organizers the 'morning after' joint expeditions 'end of trip' windups).

I hope that that is 'blunt' enough so that we don't need re-recourse to another exercise in semantics...

Just saying.

Cheers.

JB.

Btw 'Cuppa' - I have often wondered, totally separately, why opinionated punters on this polite forum hide behind anonymity.....

Cheers again.

John Baas.

Hi JB,

I will not engage in polemics as seems to be a modern affliction resulting from the 'dumbing down of modern societies where genuine debate is discouraged. As for semantics - that appears to be something your post suggests you enjoy.

You are correct to say that I have my views. Not hard to pick. I will call out racism when I perceive it because I consider it to be unfair, unjust, & unacceptable to use negative & ignorant stereotyping to 'victim blame'. I am happy to entertain views other than my own & prepared to consider those which challenge my thinking. I am not prepared however to accept alternatives which are harmful to others, especially racist views - whether expressed as intentionally racist or not. I'm sorry but your view about 'gratitude' falls well within the 'harmful' realm as I see it.

"zillions spent over too many decades on remote area Indigenous welfare by mainstream taxpayers, not much gratitude is mostly shown" is a comment which fails to understand the reasons why so much money has been wasted. If you wore the shoes of remote area indigenous folk I don't think 'gratitude' is something you would feel ...... far from it!

It simplistically blames those whom that money was ostensibly intended to help, but largely only used to maintain the status quo. Money thrown, at problems caused by inequality, which only served to worsen that inequality because of a lack of genuine consultation, & a belief of 'knowing what's best for them'.

Any blame for the money wasted lays almost exclusively on the shoulders of the those who controlled it. To label the issue as 'lack of gratitude' completely misses the point & at best is genuinely ignorant, at worst is the same arrogant attitude which both caused & maintains the inequalities behind the very real disadvantage that so many aboriginal people are expected to endure quietly.

This is very much what the Statement from the Heart & the Voice to Parliament is about. To provide genuine & respectful consultation with a view to cutting down on the sort of entrenched & systemic negative views which have caused so many problems (& which you are still expressing). To stop the dreadful waste of government funds, to encourage genuine self determination & to change an entrenched failed system with a view to all Australians benefiting.

As for my name. Cuppa is not just the name I use online, it is also what most folk I know call me face to face. I am not hiding behind anything. It wouldn't be difficult for you , or anyone else to find my Christian & family name if they want to , but I do prefer the veneer of privacy online which using my everyday nickname affords me. I have used 'Cuppa' consistently for well over the past two decades online, (& for much longer offline) but your comment is, I believe, the first time in over 10 years that my doing so has been thrown at me as an accusation. To me it feels like an attempt to play the man & not the ball. You may or may not be John Baas, which is of little concern to me unless you are up to no good. I see no reason why, unless you think that I am up to no good, you should get hung up on what I call myself. As you appear to be prepared to 'check me out' you should have no problem doing so. In fact I suggest you do so as I expect that you will find a history of consistent integrity.

Hi Cuppa.

To take point 2 first, I have no intention/interest in researching anything at all about you personally; 'noms de plume' on internet forums are just a pet peev of mine.

To point 1, my intention is to 'vote yes' even tho I have major misgivings about creating another, and permanent, ATSIC. In respect of the other matters canvassed, perhaps it's better just to agree to disagree.

Cheers.

JB.

I guess we all have our pet peeves.

Pleased you intend to vote Yes. You needn't fear that doing so will create anything like ATSIC, there are very significant differences. ATSIC was charged with managing both projects & funding. The Voice will do neither.