Reusable Oil Filters

Submitted: Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 20:29
ThreadID: 15993 Views:4256 Replies:11 FollowUps:14
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I like the idea of the "By pass filters" for easier changes of filters and less oil changes
(approx 40 000km). Ive looked at the Kleenoil filter which has a 1 micron filter.
Finer filter has a product as well.
Can anyone share their experiences, Good, Bad or indifferent.
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Reply By: GO_OFFROAD - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 20:35

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 20:35
use genuine filters, change them when they are due, and use good oil, and you wont need to go messing with the engines vitals and introduce another thing to go wrong....
AnswerID: 74928

Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:11

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:11
Much appreciated.
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Follow Up By: Flash - Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 10:23

Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 10:23
Ignorance won't help answerthis question, (no offence intended.)

I've been using bypass filters for thirty years, and have never had an engine fail in ANY way mechanically in that time. I sold a Nissan to a mate about 10 years ago with a bypass filter installed- he stripped it down recently with about 600,000 klms on the clock- nobody could believe the kilometres it had when they saw it's internal condition. (He said it was a waste of time stripping it down as it was in such good nick. he replaced gaskets and seals and reassembled it- good as new!

We have three diesels in the family, one with 400,000 klms on the clock. All have extended oil change intervals, all are mechanically perfect, and all have had bypass filters since close to day one. It stands to reason when you're filtering down to a micron or two, vs about maybe 15 microns for a factory filter, the results have to be good.
(Also even some factory diesels are going in that direction to some extent, with many european diesels going for some type or another of bypass filtering.)
Cheers
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Reply By: Peter 2 - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:00

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:00
I know of two diesel cruiser owners that have lost engines due to oil lines to remote filters breaking, by the time you realise at 100k the engine is trashed.
I agree with the previous poster, how long do you intend to keep it etc.
AnswerID: 74932

Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:06

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:06
Thank u kindly for that tip. The idea would be to take the filter to the next vehicle. Its more of a convience thing I suppose. Could I get really high quality hoses to avoid that problem.
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Reply By: TD6 - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:07

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:07
Couldn't agree more. This is one part of the engine that you shouldn't mess with. Leave it as standard. This also goes for Air filters on diesels............from experience in both cases. :)
AnswerID: 74934

Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:10

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:10
Thank u kindly.
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Reply By: Peter 2 - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:18

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:18
To further elaborate, oil is cheap as are filters, the cost of the bypass filter and hoses plus fitting will pay for quite a few normal oil and filter changes.
These type of filters are designed to be used on long distance rigs that are doing millions of k's, they also get the oil analysed at freq intervals and the engine is probably running continuously which is a different scenario to your average 4wd.
Most of the problems that arise with vehicles on outback and extended trips usually are caused by accessories or the fitting thereof, rarely do standard vehicles give problems except due to poor maintenance.
AnswerID: 74936

Follow Up By: TD6 - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:26

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 21:26
How true is that!

Just about every time I've come across a person in trouble it has been the ubute after market product that has been added on.

Keep it simple
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Follow Up By: fat bastard - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 22:16

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 22:16
I suppose what u are saying is the KISS principle. Makes sense.
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Reply By: TD6 - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 22:22

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 22:22
Spot on
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Reply By: Member - Brett H (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 22:23

Thursday, Sep 02, 2004 at 22:23
Hopefully I won't get this too wrong so if it is can someone correct me.

Some time ago I was told by a Castrol rep that oil has a job to do aside from lubricating. It also has various additives that attach themselves ,at molecular level, to soot and other contaminants in the oil that have been created by the combustion process . The job of these additives is that the whiz around the engine collecting as they go and when the clump get to a particualar size it becomes trapped by the filter. The use of a filter with a finer filter medium can prematurly remove the necessary additives from the oil which can cause the impurities to remain uncollected and cause internal wear.

I always remember this fellow saying about oil and diesels " clean looking oil doesn't always mean it is doing a better job"
AnswerID: 74946

Follow Up By: Michael - Friday, Sep 03, 2004 at 08:31

Friday, Sep 03, 2004 at 08:31
What else would you expect the Castrol guy to say??
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Follow Up By: Flash - Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 10:33

Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 10:33
FACT
Any of the oil companies want to sell you more oil.

FACT
Any of the car companies want to sell you a new engine eventually, or much better still a new car. Sure, they don't want it to fail prematurely, but they hate people driving ancient old cars that still run like a swiss watch.

If you don't believe the above two statements you're dreamin'

FACT
More and more trucks are using bypass filtering. With the miles they do, the cost of rebuilding an engine and down time, they would not be using bypass filters if it was not good.

PS I don't sell bypass filters.... I have been using them for thirty odd years and have done oil analysis which proved I could extend oil change intervals by a factor of about four.... so usually to play it very safe I only extend it by two (or occasionally a bit more say if I'm on an extended trip).
It's very easy to change the bypass filter element out bush compared to a complete oil change.Takes me about five minutes.
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Follow Up By: Flash - Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 10:44

Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 10:44
PS
In regards to change intervals, I only ever had oil analysis done to a maximum of about four or five times the specified change interval. Oil was fine, and could possibly have gone a LOT FURTHER.
However I usually prefer to err on the safe side....
Hope the above clears up a few misconceptions.

As for the "stories" about broken oil lines causing engine damage...?? That can happen for a myriad of reasons including a hole in the sump or whatever. One should ALWAYS have a reliable oil pressure gauge and a piezo buzzer on your low oil pressure switch so the light AND buzzer will sound- avoids any chance of the above happening. The buzzer is one of the first mods I do on a new car ( My wife, like many I know is not exactly dilligent at watching gauges, but that buzzer sure gets her attention.)

Cheers
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FollowupID: 334916

Reply By: fat bastard - Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 12:40

Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 12:40
Thank u Flash its nice to get two sides of the argument. The idea of getting high quality synthetic oil and keeping it and be easily able to change the "by pass filter" when on trips or even at the garage filling up with fuel, really interests me. The auidable alarm and high quality componets seems the way to go.
AnswerID: 75130

Follow Up By: fat bastard - Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 12:43

Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 12:43
PS Flash u have used them for 30 years, what do u use.
What would u recommend.

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Follow Up By: Flash - Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 14:53

Saturday, Sep 04, 2004 at 14:53
FB
See my other post.
Any further queries just ask.
There's lots of info on the web if you do a search.
PS Once you lash out, normally you keep your filter forever. I sold one on the vehicle only because the buyer (a mate) requested it (and paid extra for it).
Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Bruce H (QLD) - Sunday, Sep 05, 2004 at 13:49

Sunday, Sep 05, 2004 at 13:49
Hi Fat Bastard

I Used an Frantz 2 stacker on my LN65 Hilux 2L Diesel with synthetic oil for approx 200,000k ,changed filter every 5000Km (plus 1.5 Litres topup ,system vol was 6L) and oil every 50,000K no oil testing done.

Was chasing more ponies so transplanted the 2.4 with a 2.8 3L inc G/Box and Tfr.
Sold 2L motor to Diesel Mechanic for a mates 2.2 hilux , he was that impressed with the excellent condition of the Motor he came back and brought the G/Box and Tfr next weekend.

The 3L transplant went for 350,000Km with the same treatment before the Hilux was sold with nearly 700,000Km and 18 yrs.

I now have a 100 series HZJ105R (4.2 Diesel) 40,000km (now done 110,000km) at purchase and installed an AMSOIL Dual Bypass system after making an adaptor to take the oil from the original spin-on (system replaces the original spin-on which is a incidentially a combination of full flow / Bypass (the toyota bypass portion filters the full sump approx every 3hrs and has a lower total particulate holding and retention >10 micron capacity).
AMSOIL Bypass =link text

link text

Below what the majors say about their ultra low sulphur fuel rollout

Cheers
Harrow

Caltex

Has a gross energy per unit volume of approximately 38.2 MJ/L.

KEY PROPERTIES
Sulfur, mg/kg 50 max
Flash Point °C 61.5 min
Density at 15°C, kg/L 0.820 - 0.860
Cetane index 46 min
Code 420
Lubricity, mm 0.460 max

Sulfur in diesel fuel:
• Contributes to fine particulate matter emissions
• Can also lead to corrosion and wear of engine systems
• Reduces the efficiency of some exhaust after treatment systems
• May also render some exhaust after treatment systems permanently ineffective
(World Wide Fuel Charter April 2000)

When and where will Caltex have ULSD available?
ULSD will be progressively introduced at selected terminals from July 2003 although availability will vary between terminals and over time. The current (July 2003) expectations are:
• Banksmeadow terminal (NSW) will have intermittent supply from July 2003
• Bomen (Wagga NSW) will have ULSD available from early August 2003
• Lytton terminal (Qld) will have intermittent supply from July 2003
• Kewdale terminal (WA) will have all diesel as ULSD from approximately September 2003
• Kalgoorlie terminal (WA) will have all diesel as ULSD from approximately October 2003
The amount of ULSD available at Lytton will increase during the second half of 2003. All other terminals will initially sell Low Sulfur Diesel (less than 500 ppm sulfur).

Is ULSD suitable for my vehicle?
Diesel users should not experience any differences in vehicle performance with ULSD from that with LSD. Post 1994 vehicles should experience no difference in operation with ULSD or LSD. In some pre 1994 vehicles, especially those with nitrile rubber, existing cracks or stresses in the rubber seals may not adjust properly to the change in fuel composition of ULSD. It is recommended that owners of vehicles with these seals consider changing any suspect seals at the next maintenance check.

Is lubricity a problem with ULSD?
Under the Fuel Quality Standards Act (2000), diesel is required to meet a certain standard for lubricity. All ULSD marketed by Caltex will meet this standard.

Are there any other physical differences between LSD and ULSD?
Apart from sulfur content, the colour of ULSD produced at both Caltex’s Lytton and Kurnell refineries may exhibit a green colour. The colour reflects the additional processing at the refineries and does not affect the quality of the product.


BP

BP ULSD was officially launched on 1st July 2003.
The advantages are obvious.
Less sulphur means less sooty black exhaust smoke. As much as 60% less, in fact. Invisible emissions have also been greatly reduced, and carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxides are now just a fraction of their former levels.
Engine-friendly. Wallet -friendly.
New BP Diesel is also a breath of fresh air for your engine, as it can reduce engine corrosion and extend lubricant life. Benefits that you may not be able to see, but that you're sure to appreciate through potential savings in your vehicle maintenance costs.
Removing most of the sulphur hasn't taken anything away from the performance of new BP Diesel. You can expect comparable power and fuel economy, and you'll pay the same price per litre as the higher sulphur diesel.
Where can I buy BP ULSD.
Suitable for all diesel engines, new BP Diesel is available in Brisbane, Perth, Kalgoorlie, Sydney, Gladstone, Port Headland, Adelaide and Alice Springs. By January 2006 supply will be expanded throughout BP's entire nationwide network.
Performance Benefits
Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel will give reduced exhaust soot emissions without sacrificing engine performance. On current engines the fuel will also help to keep engines and fuel systems cleaner leading to reduced incidences of injector fouling and performance loss. Performance benefits are
• Reduced exhaust emissions such as visible black smoke and particulates for the same power output
• reduced sulphur dioxide emissions
• reduced corrosion due to acidic exhaust gas components leading to improved maintenance and operation
• reduced soot build up in the engine lubricants with potential for extended drain periods
• optimum fuel economy and power comparable to normal grades of diesel fuel
• improved storage life
• improved exhaust odour
• lubricity is controlled to ensure that it will meet engine manufacturers requirements for the effective lubrication of fuel system components
Typical Values — based on BP Laboratory testing

Value Typical Specification
Density kg/L at 15 deg C 0.835 0.83 - 0.85
Distillation 95% recovered deg.C 340 350 max
Viscosity at 40 deg C 3.0 2.0 - 4.5
Water % vol less than 0.02 0.02 max
Sediment % mass less than 0.01 0.01 max
Cetane 51
Sulphur mg/kg 50 max
lubricity 300 - 400 460 max

Shell

Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) - Shell Diesel 50
Shell is progressively introducing Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) throughout Australia ahead of the federal legislation start date of 1 January 2006.

Shell Diesel 50 is a premium grade automotive diesel suitable for use in high speed diesel engines in both automotive and industrial applications. The diesel properties are adjusted during winter to minimise waxing in cold locations. Shell Diesel has a high cetane number to help ensure smooth running and which assists starting at temperatures well below those prevailing in Australia. In addition the lubricity of the diesel fuel is controlled and monitored to help ensure that adequate lubricity is maintained to prevent fuel pump and fuel injector wear.

Shell Diesel 50 is available in parts of New South Wales and Queensland. The New South Wales rollout will be completed by September 2004 whilst remainder of Queensland will be rolled out progressively between now and 1st Jan 2006
In Victoria and Tasmania, Shell Diesel 50 will be available from October 2004.
Shell Diesel 50 is available in Adelaide and its environs and the rest of South Australia from mid 2005.
The Northern Territory will have ULSD available from 1 January 2006.

What are the benefits of low sulphur diesel?
• Reducing the ultra fine particles from diesel engine exhausts will improve local air quality;
• Reducing sulphur dioxide emissions, which contribute to acid rain, will reduce the risk of acid rain occurring;
• Reducing sulphur in fuel potentially reduces the risk of corrosive wear in the engine;
• Reducing the sulphur content does not inhibit engine performance; and
Reducing sulphur facilitates the introduction of new diesel exhaust treatment catalyst which will further enhance the reduction of environmentally sensitive diesel emissions.

Will my diesel engine require additional lubrication as a result of using a low sulphur fuel?
Sulphur content is linked to the lubricating properties of the fuel and some low sulphur fuels may require additives to provide lubrication to fuel pumps and injection systems.

Shell addresses this at the refining stage so you do not need to introduce additives into the fuel. Shell Diesel 500 and Shell Diesel 50 will continue to be tested to ensure that they provide adequate lubrication.
AnswerID: 75210

Follow Up By: fat bastard - Monday, Sep 06, 2004 at 17:02

Monday, Sep 06, 2004 at 17:02
Dear Bruce what a wonderful contribution, I hope many people will enjoy it as much as I did.
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FollowupID: 335112

Reply By: G.T. - Monday, Sep 06, 2004 at 17:50

Monday, Sep 06, 2004 at 17:50
Don`t use a system that uses a toilet roll as the filter cartridge. That type of filter belongs to the Friday funnies in this forum. Regards G.T.
AnswerID: 75358

Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C.- Tuesday, Sep 07, 2004 at 00:40

Tuesday, Sep 07, 2004 at 00:40
Why???????
Do you have any hard evidence to support your statement??
Can you categorically refute or disprove any or all claims made by mfrs. of such systems??
If so, please share... TIA..
(I won't hold my breath)...
Regards, Ed. C.
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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Reply By: G.T. - Tuesday, Sep 07, 2004 at 15:23

Tuesday, Sep 07, 2004 at 15:23
ED.C. I do not have any personal evidence to back my claim that a Toilet roll is a joke if considered to be an oil filter cartridge. However consider the following :-
1. Toilet paper is soluble -- ask your local sewerage farm manager to confirm this.
2. Ring Ryco Filters on 1800 804 541. Get their oponion of what they think of toilet rolls as a filter cartridge. No prizes for guessing what their reply will be.
3. Buy an oil pack. Check with a manufacturer of a tollet roll `filter` to what the change period is and immerse the toilet roll in the oil for this period. Observe what you have at the end of this period.
4. Have a look at a convential cartridge filter or cut open a spin on filter after it has done is time in service and compare what you have got with the toilet roll as in number 3.
5. I am of the opinion that a toilet roll has only one use ie. what it is originally manufactured for. Go figure . Flushingly G.T.
AnswerID: 75513

Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C.- Tuesday, Sep 07, 2004 at 20:58

Tuesday, Sep 07, 2004 at 20:58
G'day G.T.,
Just to clear up what appears to be a misconception here...
No doubt you've heard the saying "Oils ain't Oils!"... And so it is that "Dunny rolls ain't Dunny rolls!"...
The points you make (re solubility & bio-degradability) are of course quite valid if an off-the-supermarket-shelf toilet roll is used in the likes of the Frantz filter (which is what I have)...
I can assure that the CORRECT paper roll (now manufactured especially for Frantz) is NOT soluble or bio-degradable, certainly not in the term of a normal service life, at least... Using incorrect elements in ANY filtration system is not the fault of the system itself, but the fault of the user... Can't blame the system for that!..
re point 2. But of course.... Ryco is in the business of selling filters! FWIW, I use no other spin-ons but Ryco, but we're talking 2 different applications here (full-flow vs by-pass filtering).. FWIW also, my modest shareholding in GUD Holdings Ltd. (Ryco's parent company) is worth substantial $$$'s at todays price, so it could be said that I have a "vested interest" in Ryco...
re point 3. I most certainly do closely inspect the (correct) "toilet roll" filter element at each change (I change mine approx. every 2000 km), looking for "irregularities", and I can tell you that if one has the patience, it is possible to completely "unroll the roll" in one piece without tearing, bearing in mind that it is now fully saturated with oil...
re points 4. Been there, done that! & 5. Already covered, I think...

If you've not checked the Frantz website, you may wish to do so at
... www.wefilterit.com ...

Regards, Ed. C.
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

Member
My Profile  Send Message

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Reply By: G.T. - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 15:34

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 15:34
Ed.C
Sorry that this is a late response to your reply to my answer. I work Wednesday to Sunday on 12 hour shifts so I don`t get to my computer during this time.
I visited the Frantz site and discovered in the F.A.Q section that people were using toilet rolls as the cartridge. To each his own I suppose it`s their money after all.
The taxi industry I am associated with does not use any type of by pass filter at all , only the full flow filter O.E.M. Ryco Z9 or other brands equivalent. These vehicles clock up 700,000 to 1,000,000 Km during their life as a taxi with no engine overhaul. In fact the short block is of little concern to the operator providing that regular maintaince is carried out. This to me indicates in my opinion , that a by pass filter is of no beneifit to these type of vehicles. It is the constant hot running that allows them to attain such high km with out overhaul. This , I feel, is how other people get high km`s from thier vehicle , rather than additional by pass filters , oil additives etc etc that claim to extend the life of the engine. O.K. having said that , some one is going to reply and say that they have done X amount of kms and it was all stop start running. They will be in a minority. Most people sell their vehicles prior to having to face the major expense of an overhaul , and if they do overhaul their engine they do not keep it long enough to recoup their costs.
As I stated earlier -- to each his own --- it`s your money after all.
Regards G.T.
AnswerID: 76203

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