Camping spots closed, areas trashed......

Submitted: Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 18:20
ThreadID: 16224 Views:3486 Replies:9 FollowUps:18
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Hi,

I know it's been discussed before but I just don't get it. Around this area there have been many changes over the past few years due to abuses on camping areas. People overstaying, cutting down green trees for fire wood, leaving rubbish, dumping their old oil in camping areas, pulling a 36 foot van along a sand dune. I kid you not with the last one, took two cars together, destroyed the area.

Every trip we go on we find areas closed or rubbished to a point that no one would stay there, the cape, gulf, northern east cost of Qld. A few friends are travelling Aus over 12 mths and both sets have the same complaints about NT and WA, so far. In WA I'm told that many beaches are in the process of being closed to all traffic as people are driveing over turtle nest, bird nests, plundering the fishing stocks to fill the freezers, collecting shells in 10litre buckets even live and killing them on the fire etc, etc, etc. One particular area of camping beside a well known reef is about to have major changes with possible closure, they even said they were told that all shell collecting in WA will be banned due to these actions. These same people have not had to wet a line or take a boat, each time they move there's groups of the long term travellers that offer fish. Great you might think. They are offering it as they can't fit anything else in the freezers, why not catch and release?? That's a waste of time. How about if you get something bigger and better you dump the frozen fish and restock with the better stuf, just keep upgrading. And this isn't a one off, it's been happening to them very often. What a bunch of tossers.

Probably cause a stir but, they have found that it's basicly the same era of people doing the damage that we find in our area. Those who should be much wiser due to age and experience so we are told, the caravan brigade. Only a couple of weeks ago we caught a group of them knocking off the toilet rolls in a rest stop while draining the only tank of water into their vans, the next day they'd cut down a green "She Oak" for the fire, that is after dragging their large van over a vegetated section of sand. One of them then wanted me to then tow them out, a bogged 4 tonned camper all the time complaining that there should be cleaner dunnies, town water and why's the fishing so bad????

Not sure what your finding but it seems to be those that are after the feebies that couldn't care less and it's not just a few of them there are swarms heading north each year to keep out of the cold. You know, .... the place to be and ...... on the move. Well for my age group, tourism of this type sucks, areas are being closed that we will never see in our own state and it's because of our wiser, more learned generation and states. What goes they can't do it in their states so it's open slather in Qld, NT and WA.

AAaah well sure I've ruffled some feathers but thems the breaks, I've told it how it is in our areas and I'm sure in most places. Get this, a car park in our area has been closed (to a NP walk) as overnighters won't stop dropping their toilet tanks in the car park. I've seen it, disgusting mess and been going on for years. I know, I know, it's ...... fault or ...... fault, no sewerage dumping points 2 feet from our van, or no timber supplied at our free spot, or or or or........

One outback town I know has banned all free camping beside a well known river. Why, again dumping of black water straight on the ground at the town's water supply. To damn lazy and cheap to drive into town to dump it.

Well I say Ass H.... Our generation is the one that will suffer

AAAaaahhhhh that's better.
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Reply By: Allfour4x4 - Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 20:12

Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 20:12
Austravel,
Agree whole-heartedly!
But, the best is gone and it's all down hill from here - enjoy what's left while you can. Unfortunately it's the next generation thats losing all.
Ass-wholes is too polite.
Now I feel better too
Glenn
AnswerID: 76122

Reply By: Member - Jack - Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 20:15

Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 20:15
I have seen similar stuff - and I think I am of the generation that you are referring to. Absolutely pathetic. Whilst getting it off your chest may have made you feel better, I got angrier the more I read. Regrettably, there is little one can do about it - although I am not beyond confrontation - as evidenced on my last trip through the Flinders. Aaah .. the joys of carrying a wrecking bar in the cabin.

But I can also say there are plenty of considerate travellers out there - biggest problem with them is that you can't tell that they have been there.

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Follow Up By: Member - Snatchem (WA) - Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 20:28

Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 20:28
Well said Jack!
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Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:01

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:01
"But I can also say there are plenty of considerate travellers out there - biggest problem with them is that you can't tell that they have been there. "

Well said mate, nothing better than enjoying an area and leaving it knowing you haven't stuffed it for anyone else, if only everyone else felt the same . How good would it be....

PS like the wrecking bar idea, but i saw a better one at a tyre place the other day, they were using a short length of pipe flattened off a bit at one end to pop out the valve stems, took a second each wheel to rip the stem right out, that'd stuff em...
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Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 20:24

Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 20:24
Unforntunatly it's all too true & can be sumed up in two words. Lazyness and Arrogance.
Too lazy to pick up after themselves & too arrogant to care.
Craig............
HZJ105
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Reply By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 21:26

Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 21:26
It's a real problem that could be solved by goverments if they dealt with the issue properly.

You see, closing areas off to the responsible is cheaper than putting in more rangers/police to deal with the miscreants. And the bloody greenies support them.

Goverments choose to remove the venue to create a problem, rather than fixing it.

Simply closing off areas to d!ckheads will give them less places to go, and therefore increase their concentration in the reduced places. Hence, it will only get worse.
AnswerID: 76131

Follow Up By: Member - Mungo Explorer (NSW) - Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 23:47

Sunday, Sep 12, 2004 at 23:47
Not very logical to blame governments and the "bloody greenies" when the root cause is the number of 4wds sold, thus enabling tens of thousands of ignorant city dwellers to "go bush". Who wants a cop/ranger at every camp site and or every sand dune, even if it were possible?
It's the sheer numbers of 4wds that give them a bad name, from the Melbourne suburbs to Cape York. As we're all taking the benefit from those numbers - cheaper cars, more accessories, a growing industry etc - maybe we should also take more responsibility and not always cry for government or blame "the greenies": by not turning a blind eye, even if it means risking a confrontation. And if we need govt help, then not with coppers all over the outback - I'd rather have special licences for 4wds and caravans if that's what it takes to control the problem. A lot of people who can afford 4wds and caravans have no idea how to drive them safely and how to look after the environment they're built for.
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Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 06:35

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 06:35
I was waiting for the blame the government.
Its just common sence they wouldnt do it in your own back yard would they.
As for the greenies what a waste of space most of them take up. As I said most of them. There are a few level headed ones.

All the best
Eric
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 18:37

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 18:37
Mungo,

I blame the govt bcause they do nothing other than close off more and more areas. I see coppers booking people for exceeding the speed limit by 3 km/h, but never see them charging people for wrecking the bush; it's not the cops' fault, they are following govt instructions.

The govt has to do something about the problem, seems logical to me. How else will the problem get solved.

Expecting people to behave responsibly will never work, there will always be trouble makers who need to be dealt with.

Cheers,
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 19:03

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 19:03
Eric,

Sure I blame the govt. If we relied on people to use their common sense rather than policing them, murderers, rapists etc would run rampant.

Unfortunately there are people in this world who refuse to conform to standards of common decency, it is up to govt to put in place actions to deal with them for the good of us all.

"Blame the govt" is not a cop out, I simply see no other solution.

Cheers,
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Follow Up By: Member - Mungo Explorer (NSW) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 19:52

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 19:52
Jimbo,
of course government (national, state, local) should do something but policing can only do so much. This country's too big to be effectively policed when there aren't even enough cops on the beat in the suburbs. The fundamental problem is numbers: tens of thousands of new bushbashers (look at4wd/caravan sales figures) every year brings bad behaviour to the bush, and strengthens calls for track closures.
Don't know myself what the answer is but if you can't stop them or catch them then their behavious must be changed through education, compulsory if need be (ie. special licensing schemes).
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 20:55

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 20:55
Mungo,

You're right, it's a complex problem. Education, training, licencing etc. It's up to someone to solve it and do something about it. Until the govt takes some responsibility and deals with it a more constructive way than simply closing tracks, we will go nowhere.

Whether it's training, policing or whatever I still reckon govt has to make some sensible decisions, not just knee-jerking.

If someone in power doesn't do something sensible what hope for the rest us?

I enjoy and respect your sentiments.

Cheers,
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Follow Up By: Member - Mungo Explorer (NSW) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:09

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:09
"I enjoy and respect your sentiments" - that's mutual of course. It's what forums like this are for (among other things).
I also agree with what you say about "knee-jerking". But it works both ways, for example with your comment about "bloody greenies". There's a tendency around here to do that which is, I think, counterproductive. If we want to prevent more track closures, beach driving bans, and bad anti-4wd press, we can't just stick our heads in the sand and pretend there's no problem and blame the "bloody greenies". There *is* a problem, and we have to be seen to acknowledge it and be prepared to do whatever is necessary to contribute to a solution.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:33

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:33
Mungo,

Make no mistake, with my left wing tendencies, I firmly believe the Greenies have a place to keep balance, otherwise the developers would rape every bit of wilderness we have.

I just get disillusioned with the extremists who believe the only way to keep the bush sacred is to keep everyone away from it. It can be enjoyed, if respected, by all of us who are responsible.

Deal with the irresponsible so the rest of us are not punished.

We need to find a balance. How we do that is up to people we pay to run the country.

I, like you, have a right to enjoy this fine land. Barring us from it will solve nothing. I think we are on the same page.

Cheers Mate,
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Follow Up By: Member - Mungo Explorer (NSW) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:43

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 21:43
Yep, we're on the same page alright :-) The "extremists" aren't really the problem though because they have little or no influence. We're in trouble if the view that 4wd just mess up the beaches, pollute the rivers, block the suburbs, and kill pedestrians is adopted by the mainstream.
"Barring us from it will solve nothing" - indeed it won't. Maybe we should just bar Terracans :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Jimbo (VIC) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 22:03

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 22:03
Mungo,

You drive an XL 7, no wonder we understand each other, everyone laughs at us, we're both pretenders LOL.

My first experience at 4wding was a Vitara wagon I hired about twelve years ago. That wonderful little beast got me hooked. Accordingly my wife hates Suzuki's; doesn't like Hyundai's much more either. She wasn't all that choked up about my Patrol either. Still, she loves me, what can I say, I'm irresistable.

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Follow Up By: Member - Mungo Explorer (NSW) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 22:09

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 22:09
Oi! Nobody laughs at my XL-7 - or maybe I just don't notice because they never get close enough :-)
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Reply By: Member - Roger L (NSW) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 00:31

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 00:31
Hi Austravel,
I have been around the block three times, bush camping the majority of the time and have found some sites trashed as you have said, however a few of us do clean up after others and really I have found that most travellers that are touring Oz in thier retirement are responsible campers. My experience has been that the quick trippers on hols often leave their rubbish behind. Also when the camp spot is close to a major town EG. Coronation beach WA. the locals come out for a bleep up on the weekend and wreak havock.
So my man there are many types that are NOT responsible.
Regards Dodg.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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Reply By: Member - Bruce (San Diego) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 02:10

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 02:10
Hi,

I have a little different prospective on the whole situation which many of you will probable disagree with.

I moved to the USA nearly 20 years ago, when I left it was just prior to the bicentenial celbrations and the "Keep Australia Beautiful" campain. On my first trip back in 1992 I couldn't belive the difference and how clean the country looked. Rubbish recepticles along the roads (unfortunately some were overflowing) and the general cleanliness of the towns was impressive.

I now travel home at least twice a year for a month at a time and generally rake up 10-15 k on each trip and am still pretty impressed with the lack of rubbish, My work also takes me to Asia, Africa and Central America and if you want to see rubbish go to any of these places and you will come home thinking Australia is a pristine paradise.

Can things be made better, sure, the Cape needs some major work, I think there should be a $1,000 "entry fee" per 4WD to visit the Cape, I was not impressed by the number of idiots up there last year.

My main point of contention is the damage done to tracks and roads by driving in wet conditions. I am appauled by some of the photos posted in the members rigs section of this website with cars up to their bellies on muddy tracks, these people are no better than the yahoos you complain about, if the road or forest trail is wet enough to leave wheel ruts you have no right to be on it in my opinion.

Bruce
AnswerID: 76146

Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 06:42

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 06:42
Bruce I cant see what a grand per truck is going to do.
To your last paragraph you are spot on there is one 4x4 mag a mounthly type that has done more harm to the 4x4 market than any thing else.
They seem to have to climb over every thing that dosnt move and do every trip in less than 10 days and drink more booze than anyone.
Just dont get me started on that mag.

All the best
Eric

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Follow Up By: Coops (Pilbara) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:30

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:30
comparing us to the US of A doesn't make us clean though Bruce. I've been there and was appalled at how dirty it was.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce (San Diego) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:46

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:46
Coops,

I totally agree with you, the San Diego area is getting to look like a third world country ( which it nearly is now) the trash here is terrible.

On our jobsites we put trash containers everywhere but they get little use from the workers who I have seen drop rubbish a meter from a trash container.

Bruce
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Reply By: Coops (Pilbara) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:37

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 10:37
Does anyone have any ideas as to what we can do ?
Perhaps a nationwide campaign to the pollies asking for an education campaign.

I happen to live in that town where the river camping has been closed off due to it spoiling the towns water supply (among other reasons) and it was long overdue I can tell you.
Unfortunately there's a whole heap of other areas nearby that have had access withdrawn also so we locals are paying the price for the brain dead (I would love to say minority here but can't) majority who continue to abuse our environment through sheer ignorance, laziness and arrogance.
My travels throughout this great land have shown me that it's no better anywhere else either and one has to wonder what the next generation is going to be like with the example that is being shown them.
Could grizzle about this all day but it's pointless as a lot of us here are as appalled as I am.
My 2 bob's worth
AnswerID: 76166

Reply By: Wizard1 - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:01

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:01
Its a shame you can't legislate against idiots. There should be a permit system where those who are serious get a permit to free camp (any where). No permit, no camp. When their behaviour is accountable and trackable they may think twice about treating areas with the scorched earth mentallity. Make a mistake, get caught and you loose your right to camp in these areas.

I would be quite happy to pay a fee if it ensured clean and well maintained camping areas and water. If it meant the inconsiderate and uneducated vermin couldn't go there all the better.

I've stayed at a some reserves, etc in WA and the NT where there has been a ranger presence "keeping it real". You begin to appreciate the rules and policing as it makes for a better, peaceful and cleaner experience.

If I observed someone dumping brown waste in a water way I would certainly take steps to inform the authorities of said action. Having said that, perhaps the managers of the land need to provide the facility for the dumping of such waste. Still, I can't fathom who would be so lazy that they couldn't even dig a hole to dump it.

Having been in the Army for 20+ years we always left the bush better than we found it as we might have to go back there one day. There were even rules about how to fill in fox holes.

Wizard
Darwin NT
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AnswerID: 76172

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 19:05

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 19:05
There should be "IDIOT SEASON" just like duck season, every three months, running for 89 days, that would solve some of this.
.
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Reply By: Joe - Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 18:02

Monday, Sep 13, 2004 at 18:02
You can do something about it in VIctoria.... ring the Bush Telegraph
In Victoria, fwdv earlier this year advised us of a HOON HOT LINE 132874. It has been set up by Parks Victoria, based on the Neighbourhood watch model.

So nail these scums, keep the number in your mobile.Confront them and let them know a system is in place, if they don't behave.....then ring

As for the other states the sooner you can convince your park managers to do same the better, you can take action to change things and protect everone's camping and 4wd interests.

REgards
Joe

AnswerID: 76218

Follow Up By: Wizard1 - Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 09:08

Tuesday, Sep 14, 2004 at 09:08
You've got to be carefull confronting these red necks..they tend to get very agressive when cornered by public opinion and socially acceptable standards of behaviour..............

Living in the Nt you see the worst side of the human race. Being a little of a "wild frontier" it is a little lawless in some camping areas. Gets

An amusing anecdote involved the poor behaviour of some employees of the local ARB store at a camp site a few months ago. Well image their embarassment when a mate asked one of them if they had been there as we recognised their 4wd on display at a local boat show.....small world isn't it..

Wizard
Darwin NT
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