a storm in a teacup-4wd ownership

Submitted: Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 16:01
ThreadID: 16622 Views:2454 Replies:10 FollowUps:18
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who really cares what is reported tonight on a.c.a at 6:30 it will be one sided with there so called 3 experts with there facts and figures stating many crashes and factalities cause by 4wds. i would like to know how could it be possilble to band 4wds from the city when they got trucks, buses and others...... sharing the same road as everyone else.
at the moment 1 in every 4 vehicles sold in aust are 4wds
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Reply By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 16:44

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 16:44
WHAT! They're doing this crap AGAIN!

I couldn't give a flying fig. I drive a perfectly legal Hilux with my perfectly legal licence and pay all required taxes.....what gives when a law abiding citizen has to put up with this crap........should be a law against this harassment.
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Follow Up By: Lone Wolf - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 16:56

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 16:56
Ray, that's one of the best things I've read for a long time....

"...what gives when a law abiding citizen has to put up with this crap........should be a law against this harassment."

Hell, we have vilification issues with races & religions, free rights, voting, etc, etc, but we are caned for owning 4 x 4's.

Good point.

Tell ya what though........... if 1 in 4 vehicles sold is a 4 x 4............ that's a shlt load of votes.............

Cheers

I'm watching SBS at 6:30 tonite Wolf.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 21:33

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 21:33
That's what I thought in 1996 when the government seized my
legally owned firearms under threat of imprisonment because
someone apparently went crazy with one. I don't recall many
(non firearm owning) 4WD owners protesting against that.
Don't think it can't happen to you and your special interest
group.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

And not just about the things that matter to _you_ either.
One should not accept _any_ injustice.

The writing is on the wall for 4WDs - Australian governments
are so simple in their response to minimal (perceived) public
pressure that they _will_ act unless we apply pressure too.
How many of you have telephoned your local candidates to tell
them of your irritation at this crap? There is no better time than
now - when they’re vulnerable – because once they are elected
they won’t give a toss what _you_ think about 4WDs or anything
else.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:22

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:22
What the rodeo is gone Ray??
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:30

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:30
It's still up the driveway but yes it's sold. Can't post pics of the Lux till the missus gets back with the camera.
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:36

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:36
And no I didn't sell it to that goon from overseas who emailed me :)
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Reply By: Rick Blaine - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 17:36

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 17:36
I try not to drive my 4x4 in Sydney but at times I have to. I'm intimidated by semi trailers and busses which far outnumber the 4x4's. I just wonder where the 4x4 manufacturers and sales persons are when this excrement hits the airwaves? It must do their busness no end of good. One other thing worth noting is that everytime this subject gets aired there are always subtle overtones than an extra tax or more expensive licence will fix the problem.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mungo Explorer (NSW) - Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 00:56

Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 00:56
Not true. 4wds outnumber buses and semi-trailers on Syndye streets BY FAR. And you must admit that they have an essential function - public transport, moving goods - which can't be claimed for the single driver in his/her Landcruiser/Prado/whatever?
Let's respond to the critics by all means, but let's do it with some respect for the facts.
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Reply By: GOB & denny vic member - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 18:04

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 18:04
but do you notice who keeps sponsoring this crap

oh what a feeling???????????

back on deck again 4 days in hospital with a poisoned leg i reckon the road to darwin and back is paved with dead black cats

steve
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Reply By: Bob H - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 18:28

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 18:28
subtle overtones of an extra tax................I dont think so. they just put the price of diesel up more as they know the money people with 4x4s have unleaded ones. this way they dont upset their backers. if 25% of people own a 4x4, then why dont we vote the knockers out of govt?????? besides, ch10 had a bit on its news and it seemed to be a bit pro 4x4.
just my 1/2cents worth anyway.

Bob
AnswerID: 78114

Follow Up By: Member - Peter K (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 18:30

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 18:30
I have found the best way to deal with ACA's regular "anti 4wd" beat up is to watch Neighbours.

I saw their promo and they showed RAV4s - no offence to the owners of these, but they are just as safe on the roads as any sedan. As for licences, sure, but I always find it strange that I can tow a 2 tonne van or carry 12 people in a minivan, without any special training.

Its all about 20 years too late anyway. I am sure old patrols and toyos were beasts to drive. However these days most 4x4s are very carlike

Non 4wd drivers also need education, I mean how many times have you left a bigger gap between you and the car in front (because GQs dont pull up that quick) only to have some idiot decide he can slide in front of you.

Then again - where is the NRMA - are they not the motorist representative. However they seem to spend more time fighting for the Pedestrian Council. For example this months mag is complaining about people walking into towbars and stating they need to be able to be removed (hang on mine and most people's can be!!) and bitching about windscreen tinting.

Mustgo and watch Neighbours
cheers
Peter
(happy to drive in cities in either of my 4wds with my bullbar on and tow bar fitted)
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:20

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:20
I must admit, I'd watch scruby 10 times out of 10 over neighbours.. thats beenbleepfor 20 yrs...
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Reply By: Member - Oskar (Bris) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 18:46

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 18:46
As soon as the current 4X4 fashion is over the better.
Then we can get back to doing what we enjoy.
Then again ... a 4WD license test would stop a lot of the extra 4WD's on the road.
I would be happy to have my license endorsed if it came to that but I know a lot of people who would baulk at it.
There would be cheap 4by's to be had by all who wanted one then.
cheers
Oskar
AnswerID: 78116

Follow Up By: Muddy 'doe (SA) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 19:01

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 19:01
Not as dumb as it sounds! (not calling you dumb either Oskar!)

Maybe the Ford Territory 2wd will soak up a few sales of some who really are not after a cruiser or patrol!

Leave the 4bys to those who use them and drive them properly.

As to driving in the city in my 4wd, if I could have a city car for the city I would but I can't afford two vehicles!

Maybe we should ban people in little hatchbacks from leaving city limits.....for their own safety.
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Follow Up By: Member - Oskar (Bris) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 19:59

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 19:59
When the Mini Minor first came out when I was a kid everyone said ... "These cars are really dangerous, they are too small"

Are they working a number on us now?

Surely it is the small cars that are more dangerous not the big ones?

(Although I wouldn't want one of my kids to have a prang with a big 4by in their small cheap cars)

Oskar
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:21

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:21
"a 4WD license test would stop a lot of the extra 4WD's on the road"
How?
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Follow Up By: Member - Oskar (Bris) - Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 07:52

Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 07:52
Too much bother for "mum" to get a special license just to drop the kids off at school. Espescially if the test involved some of the "off-road" skills covered in club testing etc.
It would be a "turn-off" for a lot of the people who are just buying an image.
I have a number of friends in that category. They are great people but they don't have any plans to go off road.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 12:28

Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 12:28
Ok Oskar
You have just killed off 80% of national sales of 4wds..

How long do you think 4wds will last selling 20% of whta they do now, and what do you think that will do to prices of 4wds? They will nearly double to make it worth the while for companies to import them, train techs on them, keep spares, R&D etc etc..

Demand would drop to a level that wouldnt be worth their while.

TJM/ARB doesnt make parts for some models now due to little demand, what would happen then?
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Reply By: ev700 - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 21:29

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 21:29
Editors have a list of subjects on which they do regular 'time filler' stories. When there is a gap, they go to their cheat list of possible subjects to beat up. Then some hack journalist is detailled to shake the tree a bit to get a column or two.

For example, for years and years at the outset of Spring Brisbane's good ol' redneck sunday rag has done a scare story (posing as news of course) on redback spiders. You know the one - wierd looking expert finding spiders under park benches etc etc. As a result all the mums rush off and spray everything including the kids and cat with something that really is lethal.

Each year come September many daily rags do a series of scare pieces (masquerading as a public service to parents/students, of course) on the year 12 exams.

There are also the 'Year 12 students running wild with booze and sex and frightening grannies' stories.

When you start to look you will see many 'set pieces' that are dragged out to fill the papers, radio talk show time and TV 'current affairs'.

I'm afraid that 'killer', 'fuel guzzling', 'bull-barred' 4X4s with 'insensitive, maniac' drivers have become more bags of bones for hacks to worry from time to time.

Of course it's even better news if it can be made 'controversial' through stirring up some rage and hatred.

What about some nominations for an award for the Sorriest-Assed Hack in the Australian Media?
AnswerID: 78144

Follow Up By: Lone Wolf - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:41

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:41
Names, and Channel numbers shall not be mentioned.

I don't watch these "Current Affair" shows, but they keep bringing snippets as to what is on the next day.........

Mate, there was this poor young lass, who had some sort of problem with her very large bust size. She was quite distressed about it, saying how she had no self esteem etc....

So, what does she do? Go on national telly, crying about the size of her breasts, and saying how people ostrasise (sp) her.

I wonder what was gained by all of this?

The media has a lot to answer to I feel.

Mike Harding wrote in about what could happen, and I agree totally. But one thing eludes me........

.......... okay, we can all sign stuff, and send it on to polititians, but where are the vehicle manufacturers in all of this?

Mate, if I was the head of a large company that made cars & 4 wheel drives, and a station ran this crap............. I'd pull the budget out from under them......... totally.

Just imagine how far the networks would get if ALL the manufacturers pulled the pin!!

Makes more sense to me............ the Golden Rule............ he who has the Gold Rules...........

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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:23

Tuesday, Sep 28, 2004 at 22:23
People keep crying they are intimidated by 4wds.

Please explain to me how forcing me to get a 4wd license will change this?
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Follow Up By: Member - Mungo Explorer (NSW) - Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 01:05

Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 01:05
Of course it won't. But it might just put off the prospective "Toorak tractor" owner, and thereby reduce the number of those felt intimidated by suburban Landcruiser mums/dads with no idea of how to drive them.
Not sure 4wd licenses are the answer to that problem. But a problem it is: myself, I'm fairly well disposed towards 4wds (which is why I'm here) but the "suburban tractors" around where I live drive even me to white anger. Now imagine how those - the majority! - who don't ever think of going beyond the borders of Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane feel...
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Follow Up By: Bazza - Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 09:13

Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 09:13
G'Day Truckster,
It car'nt be explained, because it won't. It's near imposible to change peoples prospective on anything, especialy if the information on the subject, being feed to them, is flawed and incorrect. I also think some people, including 4wd owners, feel intimidated by other's uckownership of the so called "Toorak tractors".
IMO this perception is also not healthy, as I feel that everyone should have the right to drive anything they wish, for what ever purpose, rergardless that it may be driving their kids to school in a 4wd, standard car, or even a 12ton truck.
Regards,
Bazza.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 12:38

Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 12:38
People. You dont seem to realise that the "toorak" market is 80% of the 4wd market.. Like it or not, GENUINE offroaders is stuff all of the %age.

If you remove the Toorak owners or potential owners, you will kill off demand.. little demand creates price rockets upwards... Not $2.00 but more like $20,000.... if the demand dropped by 50-75% of what it is now, 4wds would price themselves out of the market - FFS they nearly are now.. $60k-70k for a plastic car?

Bazza, I agree with you should be allowed to drive what you like.

As darren said whats wrong with driving the hammer instead of the nail? I want my family safe...
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Follow Up By: Robert - Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 13:04

Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 at 13:04
"People keep crying they are intimidated by 4wds."

If one is going to accept that as a "good reason" to ban 4x4's then shouldn't all cars be banned?, as I’m sure motor bike riders could also use the same argument!

Really though, if they feel so intimidated by 4x4's, then how do they cope with trucks and buses? If they are that nervous about driving with other road users, then they shouldn't be even be allowed to have a license!

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Reply By: banjodog - Thursday, Sep 30, 2004 at 10:05

Thursday, Sep 30, 2004 at 10:05
It's not the 4WDs that's the current issue on the road - it's the smart arse Jap rice-ups driven by 17 year olds that are the problem.

No common road sense, don’t indicate, cut in front at the last moment at the red light, group up across all lanes and deliberately slow down to hold back the traffic so their dumb arse mates up front can drag race to the next set of lights etc etc etc.

That’s what should be targeted not the 4WD owners – I’m sure there are lots of Govt regd vehicles that are 4WDs too – one comes to mind are the 100 series parked at the side of the road taking those special photos if you drive by too fast – will they be band?

Just another knee jerk media report as there’s not much else to talk about at 6.30pm.
AnswerID: 78313

Reply By: Member - Landie - Thursday, Sep 30, 2004 at 11:01

Thursday, Sep 30, 2004 at 11:01
Sometimes it is pointless trying to shadow box all the criticisms, most reasonably minded people will usually draw their own conclusions, unreasonable people will never be convinced in any case.

As a group who own and enjoy four-wheel driving the responsibility falls to us to ensure that we all conduct ourselves in a way so as to make the irrational debate about four-wheel drives obsolete.

Easy said than done I hear many say, but the more of us that do the right thing – the better!

This is our best form of defence.

Landie
AnswerID: 78324

Reply By: Member - Landie - Thursday, Sep 30, 2004 at 11:05

Thursday, Sep 30, 2004 at 11:05
As a footnote to my previous post, it is worth noting that all the major news networks use four-wheel drives, with satellite dishes on top, to get around the city – odd world isn’t it!

Landie
AnswerID: 78328

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