why new landrovers breakdown

Mikey I concur.If you want a tough simple Landy dont but past 1985 they got thinner and weaker after that. remember that they were a military vehicle and are realy in a different class to othe 4wd's, Not better or worse just for a different purpose.

Ok, let's get one thing straight. BMW actually did very little with Land Rover except improve the quality control a little. Contrary to popular belief the Td5 engine is a pure Land Rover design and was under development before BMW took over. BMW engines appeared in the Range Rover and Freeloader, but who cares?

Sure, the electronics in the new Defender may be susceptible to water and dust but you can get around this to a certain extent. ALL manufacturers are going this way and if Land Rover want to sell any vehicles they have to as well.

Let's get another thing straight. I do not believe that new Land Rovers break down any more than other makes. I have heard plenty of horror stories from owners of new Toyotas and Nissans.

My Td5 Defender has performed faultlessly so far, and seems to be virtually unstoppable. And, it is my 6th Land Rover.

Mikey, you might love your old Landys, but who in their right mind would use an old leaf-spring truck as a general-purpose touring vehicle or take one on a round-Australia trip? Give me comfort and modern technology any day. And your post didn't clarify anything except your lack of knowledge. For your information, Landrover was taken over by Ford a year or more ago. Try and keep up.

Landrover's reputation was earned over a long period of proven unreliability. Remember those broken axles? Saw one not long ago being snatched over sand dunes because the rear axle was broken! Nothing high tech, electronic or new fangled about that - just plain old poor quality!!

It is a known fact that the two most unreliable vehicle makes worldwide for the years 2000 and 2001 were Daewoo and Landrover. I owned a few old Landrovers( pre 1980) and they were good apart from breaking the odd axle. I agree with donaldasher that the old vehicles are the more reliable and the promote the KIS catchphrase.....KEEP IT SIMPLE !!!
Cheers, Willie

Well! I disagree - every two years I change ove my 4wd since the mid eighties they've been coil sprung getting better every time and getting back to the Landrovers' of today I put it to you all that when you;re in the Simpson, on the Cape, on the Gibb River road or at any other popular Australian you'll find very few Landrovers but plenty of 80/100 series cruisers, Prados, Pajeros and Patrols - how good are Landrovers away from the tarmac? A/ No good!

before you invest - investergate and get dealer promises IN WRITING - why? well i paid $49000 for a disco in june 1999 from stewart webster in seaford. great people and great service but they forget things, the car i bought from them new in 1999 and had serviced by them on every occasion according to the book is now worth only $18-20000 as a trade in on a new td5 from them. I dont expect the earth but would expect a better deal or let me say closer to the $30 od thousand they will expect fo sell it for.
if you expect to tow then do not be tempted by the 3.5 ton capacity of disco rather ask what its ball weight capacity is - mine can tow 4 ton but only support 150k how stupid is that - and land rover australia - what do they say - sell the car or sell the caravan - the disco 1999 series one will not do the job. what a change from when i shelled out 50 grand then it was all great and the best buy in the world. take care its your money and they dont know about basic honesty or loyalty regards peter

Having been a past Landrover owner here are some facts. My car was a 98 tdi disco
1. purchased new $53220
2.traded 6/02 $23000
3. Total cost of service and repairs during that period $11219 (includes one new set of tyres)
4. major items include pan seal transmission replaced, rear axle seal replaced both sides, transmission oil leak, major problem with turbo kept vibrating loose back to the shop about 5 times, power steering leaks, numerous oil leaks, oil leak sump remove & refit, rear washer inoperative, dropped bonnett liner, cruise control broken, harness wiring rear of cylinder head replaced, injector pump rebuilt, transfer shaft split coupling, cigerette wiring harness fell off, handbrake inoperative faulty connection

Whilst i did like the car they were comfortable to drive in had excellent 4x4 ability, good economy and we took it over some tuff tracks in central qld and vic high county, I could never go from one service to the next without having to go back to the mechanic for some little thing.

My recommendation if your a A grade mechanic and can fix it yourself go for it otherwise steer clear. Although cant comment on newer models have had no experience but above figures are exact I have every reciept

Hope this is of help to someone
cheers

I now have a nissan patrol and couldnt be happier with the car

Bob, "The known fact" I saw somewhere on the internet. BUT on a lighter note go to http://cartalk.cars.com and check out the worlds worst cars. It is good for a laught and there are no Landrovers there :-)) So that is a plus!! Cheers, Willie

Well isnt this a heated little debate?? I think there are a few inferiority complexes out there in the Landrover owners club.
I have worked on landrovers for the last ten years and they have proved themselves capable in some of the worst terrain in Aust and overseas, but dont compare apples with pears. The landrover is an agricultural tractor, exactly what it was designed for all those years ago and we all know they have changed little! The top selling 4x4's in Aust have proved themselves time after time, in the bush and on the black top and they continue to get more reliable every year! The technology is improving, making these vehicles better not worse, its funny how quickly the mind forgets all the bad over time! The most convincing of all liars is memory!!
The amount of vehicles and the enormity of the expeditions that are undertaken sucessfully by relativly inexperience people is unbelievable, due to the comfort and reliability of current vehicles!
Mickey!! The landrovers in the Aust Defence force are not a sign of their reliability or popularity, it was a political descision to continue with the TRADITION of LR in the Army. I also have no idea what makes you think that LR Aust (JRA) are stockpiling TDi motors for the Army???? The LR 110 uses a 3.9 4bd1 engine of the ISUZU breed. Consequently it is the most reliable and only part of our LRs that doesnt require constant mechanical assistance!!
The wiring loom integrity is a disaster, they chaff and short out constantly through the firewall, causing endless wiring faults. The driveline breaks everything, from rear output shafts in the gearbox to the spider gears in the diff and finally to the axles! (Plenty of good photos as proof!) You get pretty adept at pulling out LR gearboxes if you join the Army as a mechanic and dont even start me on the suspension bushes! Well thats about it mechanically, we all know what the interior cosmetics and firwall rust problems they have (what was the firewall anyway, the sacrificial annode in the ally body?)
Any way apart from the mechanical side, they are a very capable 4x4, but who wants to dive a tractor for days on end across Australias finest?

Good post Matt. Finally a rational and neutral post in this ongoing and silly debate. How often do we have to put up with this Landrover thing on Exploroz??? It seems to bring out the most outlandish and unresearched statements. For instance, somebody further up the page stated that Ford had been bought out by the bayer motor werken company. From that I presume he means the Bayerische Motoren Werke AG - or BMW as we peasants call it. Strange, if BMW own Ford they don't appear to know about it. They acknowledge owning the Mini brand on their parent website - but nothing else. If anything BMW could be in danger of takeover by GM somewhere down the track in view of Ford's recent gobble up of Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda and now Volvo. As good as the brand is, BMW is an absolute minnow compared to the likes of GM and Ford which are #1 & 2 sizewise respectively in the world. Sorry fellers, but that statement was too bloody outlandish to let pass unchallenged. Please can we have an end to all this? Its really easy to do. If you don't like Land rovers - don't bloody buy one - end of story. BTW I dont own a Land Rover, never have, never will, but I support the right of those who do, to enjoy their purchase in peace and quiet, and not have to constantly defend them against some of the "bleep" heads [put the bleep in myself] who haunt this forum.

Don't know much about Landrovers, but I have to ask....does anyone who owns a Defender consider them comfortable enough to undertake long trips?. I sat in one 3 years back...for 10 seconds....got out laughing...it was horrendous.....seems every factor except the human had been covered. I like the vehicle concept, but how can someone stay at the wheel all day ? (ever noticed them on the road and on TV - most drivers have their arm out the window...sit in one and you'll see why ...reckon rear seat passengers would stage a mutiny too)......dp

As another ex-digger, I can only lend my voice to the pro-Landrover lobby, albeit somewhat grudgingly. No, I would not buy one - I drive a turbo-diesel Land Cruiser with proper (leaf) springs.
But, starting in the sixties, I have many, many miles of some serious 4-wheeling behind me, in country which nowadays is mostly unavailable to today's crop of technological wonders. Lots of it cross-country, in conditions that make the Canning Stock Route, Gibb River Road and Gunbarrel Highway seem like a picnic. (Did the Gunbarrel not too many years after Len Beadell first 'made' it). Sure, I remember lying in the bottom of a sandy creekbed because an axle or diff had sh*t itself. I remember the lousy excuses for seats. But they always got me home. And I agree with 'Old Soldier' when he says that we don't really need the slanging matches on this forum. Those who drive Landrovers of any model are entitled to do so - I respect their choice and will always have a snatch strap to offer them (Joke!!) Cheers, Cruiser.

Any vehicle with a computer is vulnerable to some extent, no doubt about that. But people will buy what they want, even if advised/warned against it. It's their choice. I feel that the time has come to stop bashing ANY particular vehicle. Informative feedback on vehicles is what this forum is about, not rubbishing ANY vehicle or product. This topic seems to raise its had every 6 weeks or so, and I for one don't see the sense or reason in it. Is it just to inflame discussion and bickering? It would definitely seem so. Does it have any real positive outcome? Not really. ALSO, please note that at no time has there been any reference to any particular vehicle in this post, even though I own a 4WD. PLEASE stop this senseless waste of time and board space. Bill Church

Yes, it’s an essay but you don’t have to read it:

I’ve had experience with both Land Rovers and Toyota’s. There are advantages and disadvantages to both and both have their place in this world. Speak to most people in Australia and the Middle East and they will tell you that Toyota’s are the way to go. Anyone in UK, Europe and Africa will say Land Rover. Why? Well because it’s the most popular vehicle in the area, meaning that the local mechanic should be able to sort it out pretty quickly and he’ll easily be able to get the part needed at a reasonable cost. For me this is probably the most important factor in purchasing a 4WD because eventually something will break on any vehicle when it's pushed to its limit or just from normal wear and tear.

I have owned a 1975 FJ40 (petrol), a 1985 Sahara (diesel) and have just ordered a new 100 series (diesel) Toyota. I chose this because I think it’s the best all round vehicle for Australian conditions. I.E. It’s got a wide track and a long wheel base making it good on road, good at carrying large loads and no-one doubts its good off the road ability. It’s an excellent vehicle all round for the long trips we do here in Australia and that’s what one needs. Lets face it most of the driving (90%) on a long trip will be done on bumpy dusty roads where 4WD is not necessary. The other advantage is that every other bloke and his dog thinks the same, so parts are easy to get.

I have also lived I the UK for the last 5 years, where Land Rover’s out number Toyota’s a zillion to one. Why? Cause till recently they were a local brand (previously the only brand) and just perfect for farmers to bumble up and down the country lanes and perform all the duties required of them. On road they do bumble along (I’m talking about the Defender) but off road they excel and their articulation (amount of independent vertical wheel travel) far out ways the Toyota’s.

In January this year I was given the opportunity to do a month long trip from Johannesburg to Northern Mozambique in a TDI 200. The Land Rover in question was owned by a South African mate of mine, which he bought in Yorkshire (Northern England) 18 months prior and then drove to South Africa. It took him 7 months. He rolled it once in Ethiopia about a third of the way into his trip. The body was repaired by locals using house aluminium window frames riveted onto the body (windscreen frame and door window frames). The engine work was repaired by him a non-mechanic type, but armed with the Hanes manual he fixed it, he continued the rest of the way and the vehicle remained in J’Berg.

We left from J’Berg in what looked like an old clapped out Defender but was only a 1992 model (it had a hard life). It carried a roof top tent, Zodiac inflatable with 30 horse power outboard, food for a month, 50 litres of water, 5 jerry’s of diesel, 2 jerry’s of petrol for the boat and virtually another Defender of spare parts in the back. You could say we were overloaded, but we had to be. We were going 7000kms round trip in a month and the roads were just as bad (some probably worse) than what we get in Australia. We had a great time and got to some of the islands off the coast of Africa in the Straits of Madagascar in the Zodiac. If I were to do it again I would choose the Toyota as I think it would have coped a lot better on the long bumpy stretches of pot-holed rutted dirt roads and would have handled the load better. The Land Rover coped, just, and nearly got us through everything (we had to be pulled out once by a passing articulated truck) but like I said, only 10% of the driving was true 4Wdriving.

My personal preference is for a Toyota but I also recognise the fact that other makes can do it just as well. This is what makes the world such a great place, ITS DIFFERENCES, and our right to have our own choice should be respected.

Mickey, I guess we didn’t have as much as we though after reading what you took. I’m amazed! I say our Defender, a 110 Tdi, wasn’t happy with the load because it swayed and dived all over the road, it just didn’t feel stable. On reflection it could have been any number of reasons, firstly because I’ve always had Toyota’s with wide tubeless tyres and the Defender had the original tall skinny tyres and I just wasn’t used to them. Secondly our Defender had 6 months ago, previously driven from London to Cape Town, it had new bushes etc, and a major service but still the springs and shocks had done a lot of work. And thirdly, from a pure physics point of view I would think the wider track of the Toyota would enhance stability.

As I mentioned in my last post, there were many more Land Rovers or more precisely, Defenders in Africa. Many people had been converted to the Toyota Troopie though, and I envisage the percentage of Toyota’s on the road out there will overtake that of Land Rover, partly because of size and partly because of cost. I am however (being a Toyota fan) disappointed that an institution, that which is ‘Land Rover’, is in decline. But that seems to be the way with a lot of things in Africa at the moment.

Cheers,
Chris

Hi guys, thought I might pop my two cents worth in seeing every one else has :-). I've owned a few 4x4s over the years, including a couple of Patrols, a 60 series Landcruiser and a Jackaroo. I upgraded from the Jackaroo to a '97 Discovery V8. I'm pleased to say that the Disco has just clocked 180,000km with only routine servicing required. It has never let me down, and is used every day for a 100km round trip to work and goes on trips in the bush about twice a month. Funnily enough, my L/R never cracked a head gasket at 90,000km like my GQ Patrol...and hasn't decided to die at traffic lights like the Jackaroo :-). It's a lot a lot more comfortable than the old 60, which had a habit of breaking alternators.... and geez it was slow on the open road! Sure the L/R is the quirkiest car I've owned (everything is backward, even the bonnet release is on the passenger side!), but you can't bag the brand based on some rumour you hear on the Internet! I will say that the Disco is very thirsty, but otherwise can't complain at all. I'm looking to get a 3.0TD Patrol or 100 Series Diesel Landcruiser when the Disco hits about 250,000 because I like to try different cars and also I will need the extra space (kid on the way + two already!), but I can honeslty say I've enjoyed the L/R ownership so far....so long live the Landies!

I,ve got a series 2a for sale should anyone want it. Des

1. The only LR product developed under BMW was the latest RangeRover
2. The Td5 engine use a fly by wire throtle body not RF
3. If you care to look at a Defender brochure/owners manual I think you will be hard pressed to find a power window switch
4. The ECU is dust proofed however a lot of connections like points type ignitions are not so I can't see the difference
5. My Disco (94 3.9l) has has water 100mm up the windscreen, mud half way up the doors, I can't comment on dust as none gets in.
6. I suggest that you send your views on the latest LR products not being true to the marque to LR HQ in Solihull and see what they reply.
7. If you think being a Luddite in and ancient design with (by todays standard) limited HARD off road capabilities makes you an expert then I can see why you once chose a Pajero.
In parting to the owners of other brands a LR product is as capable and reliable as any other IF it is maintined correctly, LR products do not respond to lack of care like the Japanese, the old saying " you get out what you put in"