Tread Lightly - Sand Driving

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 13:19
ThreadID: 22192 Views:3167 Replies:17 FollowUps:40
This Thread has been Archived
Regarding the current homepage image on the "Out OF Adelaide" forum.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/4wd_out_of_adelaide/?yguid=94578712

Is this how I should be driving, when in sand country??

I'm interested in what other's think of this.

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Reply By: locallaw - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 13:33

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 13:33
Gidday,To me it looks like a very large sand hill he is trying to get up.Also he is flying a flag and look at the large craters in the track in front of the 4by.And having travelled the Simpson(east to west) it can happen.
Seeya Locallaw
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Reply By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 13:36

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 13:36
It looks to be a steep undulating hill which would require quite a bit of momentum. This being the case, and especially with tyres that sit outside the gaurds, this scene would not be uncommon. It results from the vehicle bouncing around while trying to find traction in the soft sand, which is readily thrown into the air.
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Follow Up By: Robert - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:05

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:05
"especially with tyres that sit outside the gaurds, this scene would not be uncommon. It results from the vehicle bouncing around while trying to find traction in the soft sand, which is readily thrown into the air."

Do you really think people are going to beleive that?

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Follow Up By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:08

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:08
it is a fact
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Follow Up By: Rosco - Bris. - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 15:50

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 15:50
I would venture to suggest the melon holes are more as a result of turkeys not letting their tyres down
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 16:12

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 16:12
I totally agree with you Rosco... In the event that a track as shown already has melon holes in it along with soft sand, the picture shows nothing out of the ordinary. Around the Robe area we have come across many tracks which are just like this one and the only avenue out(aside from making new tracks through the scrub, which no one wants to be doing), a speedy aproach is the only answer, deflated tyres or not.

I just think Robert's horse has got a little too high and he needs to dismount before he takes a single photo as a indication of this blokes entire day in the sand. People who take a single photo(which is nothing out of the ordinary for the condition of the track, IMO) and bleet about it on multiple public forums only serve to provoke the "enemy" to have a go at us.
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Reply By: Moose - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 13:42

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 13:42
G'day Robert
I reckon it is irresponsible to post photos like that. Just gives the enemy more ammo. Obviously if you wish to dig big melon holes then that is the way to drive!
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Follow Up By: Robert - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 13:59

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 13:59
Yes, no wonder we get tracks closed!

Regarding Your comment:

"Just gives the enemy more ammo"

In this case I'd say ammo that is justified!

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Follow Up By: Robert - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:06

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:06
Yes, no wonder we get tracks closed!

Regarding Your comment:

"Just gives the enemy more ammo"

In this case I'd say ammo is justified!

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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:16

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:16
G'day Robert,

Now I see where you are coming from! I have already responded to you on the camper trailer forum where you didn't leave your name or indicate your position on the photo. Sounds to me that you might be sleeping with the enemy?

A photo is pretty meaningless unless people are aware of the circumstances that surround its taking. On the surface this seems bad but it may well be on private property where this is permitted. Now unless you are totally green (which I doubt with a handle like 4X4) then you could argue that any 4wd driving is contrary to preserving the environment and that we should just park the beast to be fully responsible.

I suppose that all depends on the shade of green but I like to think that where we stick to existing tracks the environmental issues were previously considered. Having said that though I'm happy that you are at least trying to make the world more resposible place.

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Robert - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:38

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:38
If the greenies have their way, life won't be worth living!

Just because I own a 4x4, doesn't mean I want to see the enviroment deliberately vandalised through stupid and thoughtless behaviour!

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Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 13:33

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 13:33
Moose,

Good to see someone knows how to drive, obviously your a more experienced driver than some!
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:45

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 14:45
Hi Robert,

I have nothing to do with the photo, but recognise the country. Its on a private property in the South East area of South Australia which is used for 4wd recreation as well as driver training. Quite a few properties in this area have sand blows interrupting their grazing land - these sand blows support some mallee vegetation, but are ideal areas to use for this purpose.

Much better that people learn and practice sand driving on such a property instead of ripping up national parks, and other wilderness areas.

Its actually no different to a photo of a vehicle in mud during say the "warn winch challenge".

What message does it convey? I agree theres an issue there, as this depends entirely on the reader, and their knowledge (or lack of). This is the major problem with TV advertising - where people are led to believe that flying thru the air, ripping up beaches or hooning thru the Bungle Bungles os OK - which of course is not the case.

Cheers
Phil
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Follow Up By: Robert - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 15:09

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 15:09
"I have nothing to do with the photo, but recognise the country. Its on a private property in the South East area of South Australia which is used for 4wd recreation as well as driver training."

You can recognise the property from that photo!!!! - I find that very hard to believe.

"this depends entirely on the reader, and their knowledge (or lack of)"

No it doesn't...

It simply promotes stupidity and explains why - if this is the way people drive, then no wonder tracks are closed!.

And what about the pictures of people deliberately driving through bog holes on the "Border Track" Are these On private land Too?

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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 18:18

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 18:18
Robert,

No use asking for our opinion, if you're just looking for an argument.

The track is the steepest track on Dorado Downs. Tell me if I'm wrong!

Tracks on Private properties don't get closed. Its a source of farmers income on their land, and surprisingly enough, their land doesn't get desroyed by this activity every weekend of the year.

AS far as the Border track goes - its a different story. The Border Track has been plundered by large numbers of inexperienced 4wders destroying the track that is used in for fire access in the Ngarkat Conservation Park. IMHO - it needs to be closed and people can go to Private Properties to have their "play".

Cheers
Phil
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Follow Up By: Robert - Wednesday, Apr 27, 2005 at 13:24

Wednesday, Apr 27, 2005 at 13:24
"The Border Track has been plundered by large numbers of inexperienced"

By that, I assume you have to be referring those people who spin their wheels excessively and therefore spray sand high into the air?

"it needs to be closed and people can go to Private Properties to have their "play".

Exactly, it's those who have used the Border Track as a mere 'playground' that have caused the problems, how many have gone there looking only for the mud!

It's because of these people that tracks get closed to everyone.

" No use asking for our opinion, if you're just looking for an argument. "

No I'm not looking for an argument, just wondering why people towing trailers get canned yet this sort of behaviour doesn't!
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 14:46

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 14:46
It simply promotes stupidity ...

I'd love to know what your smoking if you think 1 photo simply promotes stupidity...

again, you know nothing about the photo, the location or the day or anything. You have just seen the photo and thought WOW I"LL GET MY NAME UP IN LIGHTS..
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Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 15:56

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 15:56
You make me laugh!
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Reply By: udm - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 15:29

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 15:29
Why did you bother posting on this website if all ya gonna do is argue with everybody without giving people a chance to say what they think?
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Follow Up By: Robert - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 15:45

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 15:45
People have had their say, and I have responded to that.

What's your problem?

Aren't I allowed respond to anyone's response to my posting?

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Reply By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 16:32

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 16:32
can't see a problem with shifting a bit of sand some one place to another. The rain and wind shift more sand and dirt than all the 4x4's on the planet.
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Follow Up By: Nudenut - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 16:48

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 16:48
hear hear!
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 23:27

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 23:27
FFS dont bring facts into this... poor rob will have to take more pills.
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Reply By: D-Jack - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 17:22

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 17:22
If I had been video taped or photographed I would be able to provide images exactly like that one, even though I am one of the more environmentally friendly 4wders. I can't believe that people are saying what he is doing is wrong. When you have a steep ascent, you need power and momentum. You give it some stick, and if your front or rear wheels happen to lose traction due to recovering from a bump, then they hit the sand harder, flick sand up under the guard and normally out, even sometimes with tyres let down to 15. I don't see anything wrong even if it is a national park. So what, we don't drive on tracks and leave them exactly the same, our tyres move the sand no matter what they are doing. If we're so worried about sand moving, drive on the bitumen. And what about the firewood we use, depleting insects, reptiles and small mammals of their home. Shame shame shame.

p.s. I've had wheelspin, tramples saltbush, dislodged rocks and even cut some grooves in wet dirt tracks. I was going to get on the HF and request one of those huge military helicoptors to airlift me out so I didn't have to, but thought that would be a little over the top.

As 4wders, let's not make excuses for what we do. Otherwise it looks like we are trying to cover something up.

Strong opinion, I know, but I thought it had to be said.

D-Jack
AnswerID: 107412

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 18:10

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 18:10
Well said Jack
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 19:44

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 19:44
The military! I hate to think how much enviromental damage has been done by by them over the years.
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Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 13:30

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 13:30
There's a difference to wheel spin under normal driving as compared to deliberately spinning the wheels, especially enough to spray sand that far into the air! Spinning your wheels only causes loss of traction or digging yourself in deeper.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Apr 29, 2005 at 19:17

Friday, Apr 29, 2005 at 19:17
Can you imagine if Poor little Rob saw an Outback challenge, or Winch challenge, or tuff truck, or Malaysian Forest Challenge video? He'd need more valium than can be produced in 20,000 years.
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Follow Up By: Robert - Monday, May 02, 2005 at 08:13

Monday, May 02, 2005 at 08:13
You mean you can't see any difference between those kind of events compared to normal 4x4 driving!

NO - you probably couldn't!
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, May 02, 2005 at 09:03

Monday, May 02, 2005 at 09:03
What, driving over rocks, logs, through rivers, SPINNING THE WHEELS (GASP) on rocks, driving through sand, driving fast on dirt tracks, winching up hills, and over obsticles you are stuck on?

Depends on what you call normal 4wding. Sounds like to some people, the Coles carpark is a challenge.
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Follow Up By: Robert - Monday, May 02, 2005 at 12:26

Monday, May 02, 2005 at 12:26
For some, driving responsibly in a Coles carpark would be a challenge!
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Reply By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 18:22

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2005 at 18:22
Robert,
I am as enviromentally friendly as the next guy..... but I don't think anyone should be commenting on that pic, adversely or otherwise unless we were actually there to see for ourselves just what happened. He may have climbed that hill to just that point before spinning sand up for a fraction of a second, the same second the pic was taken.... who knows??? Unless we were all there, none of us do!
And like Ray said, nature has it's own way of moving sand around anyway and it's much more effective at it than an old 40 series tojo!
AnswerID: 107418

Reply By: rickwagupatrol - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 at 17:54

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 at 17:54
as a member of said forum, even tho i live i W.A. , i just went and had a quick peek at the " offending" photo.
looks normal to me, however, if Robert here has such a beef about it, why hasnt he simply asked the person who's photo it is, what was happening that day?
its quite easy actually, photo section, under Yahoo photos,,,,THERE IT IS,,,,mick is the name under the photo.
simply put, what is your beef Robert, go ask the man who's 4by it is what happened, don't go bagging him.

rick.
p.s,,,,just found the post relating to the photo,,,,,,,it IS Dorado Downs.

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Reply By: Andrew (Whyalla) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 at 21:15

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 at 21:15
Robert

My only comment on your post is - why have you asked here, and on a Yahoo Campertrailer Group as well?

If you had the common decency to ask on the 4WDooA group first then I would have been pleased to discuss your issue with you. As Im sure the photographer would, and anyone else that was there.

All you are doing is trying to whip up some negative 4WD publicity rather than address what you see as an issue. Isnt that what you state you wanted to avoid?

Sorry, but in my opinion your motives are questionable.

Andrew Hiscock
moderator - 4WDooA Yahoo Group
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Follow Up By: Member - Bernie. (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 at 22:52

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 at 22:52
Well said Andrew
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Reply By: Hellbelly - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 at 22:23

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 at 22:23
It is a big steep hill! I did need speed to try get up it! It is on private property! My tyres are down to 14psi! Sorry to have offended anyone!

Cheers......HB (Mick)
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Follow Up By: Member - Bernie. (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 at 23:15

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2005 at 23:15
Hi Mick, no need to be sorry about a photo taken on private property, people jump to conclusions because they only have 1/2 the story & as Andrew said why not ask on the site where the pic was posted, I got hammered once for a pic with an impressive mud spray, nothing to do with anyone else who was not there at the time & after all it was on a 4WD site.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Hellbelly - Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 at 07:44

Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 at 07:44
OK, the offending pic is now no more (thank god). It was all just Innocent fun Robert. As I've said. My tyres were down (some would say way down) and speed was needed to get up there. The "mellons" were think so there was lots of bouncing around and while we were still moving forward we did lose traction from time to time. I'm no vandal, in fact I'm a tad green. When I go fishing I pick up rubbish left by others, I never leave the track, if I'm with others who are doing something a little wrong I try to show them there's a better way. OK, ill informed people could jump to the wrong conclusions (the enemy) but surely everyone here would have done something similar in the course of their adventures. If it had been a track used by everyone IE Little Dip, I wouldn't have tried quite as hard to get up, but these things happen.

Cheers......HB
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Reply By: Hellbelly - Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 at 14:55

Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 at 14:55
Hello All,
This is Micks other half who was in the vehicle at the time the photo was taken. I am surprised at how accurate some of the guys assessments have been on the circumstances in which the pic was taken, you certainly know your stuff, well done. Poor Mick is feeling like he's done the wrong thing. Yes it is a private property called Dorado Downs, can't recall if it was the hill known as 'muther hill' but it was a tough one and that is as far as we got. It was a moments spray after getting stuck and then we retreated back down the hill. Maybe Mick tried a second too long to beat the challenge, it was our first time travelling with other 4wdrivers and therefore the first time we got to attempt the 'big ones'. We had a fantastic weekend with a great bunch of people, and as we were in the second oldest vehicle there and had the least power, we were delighted to scale a few hills that others in better vehicles could not. Thanks to the guys who have been sopportive.
Cheers, Tracy.
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Follow Up By: Andrew (Whyalla) - Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 at 16:48

Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 at 16:48
Tracy & Mick

The only thing that has happened here is someone, with a barrow to push or a high horse to ride on, has bypassed the source of the photo and gone bleating about it to other groups.

Leave it at that and get on with enjoying your 4WDing. Its the internet so treat everything with healthy skepticism.

The 3 most likely types you'll meet on 4WD forums are:
Internet millionaires
Internet tough guys
Internet offroad legends

Laugh at them, like we do, and get on with gaining real knowledge from real people.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 at 19:12

Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 at 19:12
Andrew, I'm certainly not a Millionare and when you hear me shreak at the sight of my baby daughter getting a needle you'll know I'm deffinatally not the tough guy, so that leaves only one logical conlusion... I must be a total legend! LOL

You'll probally find Robert is either very very bored or someone like Mr Scruby from the Australian Pedestrian Council of Australia just trying to stir the pot.

As you could see by the majority of member posts/replys on this issue 99% of the Oziexplorer people were deffending you guys and saying that it was a crock. I'm a sandgroper (from WA) and have flicked more sand than that up by sneezing while on a picnic. The whole thing was a crock and I wouldn't worry about it.

Tracy & Mick,
Good on you for getting out there and giving it a go! Don't get scared off by this nonsense! If you keep your tyres at the right pressure you really aren't going to do too much damage to sand no matter what you do as long as you stay on the tracks!
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 at 23:13

Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 at 23:13
Spot on Jeff, you got it in one.
Tracy & Mick as Jeff said tell them to get stuffed and enjoy yourself.
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Reply By: Hellbelly - Friday, Apr 22, 2005 at 14:36

Friday, Apr 22, 2005 at 14:36
I notice Robert hasn't got any more to say.
Tracy.
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Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 13:43

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 13:43
Oh yes I have!

Just too busy to reply sooner.

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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Apr 24, 2005 at 14:08

Sunday, Apr 24, 2005 at 14:08
Do you know anything at all about the track, the hill, the conditions, or the day, or anything apart from whats in the photo?

So how can you judge anything without the facts?

Didnt think so.
AnswerID: 108001

Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 13:53

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 13:53
Do you?

No I didn't think so!

Aside from the issue of whether it is or isn't responsible driving - what does that picture say to those who are against 4x4's?

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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 14:41

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 14:41
No, i dont know, I dont pretend to know do I?

.. but then again, I'm not the one crying and sooking over the photo am I?
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Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 15:53

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 15:53
Neither am I, simply commenting on someones driving style and asking if it is appropriate driving.

If your doing nothing wrong, then you shouldn't have a problem with someone questioning what your doing!
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 23:26

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 23:26
"... simply commenting on someones driving style and asking if it is appropriate driving"

and you have been told more than once, that it was acceptable for the conditions on that day. Yet you have some passion for not accepting that. Why?
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Reply By: Robert - Tuesday, Apr 26, 2005 at 08:10

Tuesday, Apr 26, 2005 at 08:10
If this is acceptable damage, then what's all the fuss about people towing trailers in places such as the Simpson. We constantly see comments that they are causing damage!
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Follow Up By: flappa - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 13:49

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 13:49
Depends on who you speak to.

The damage involves trailers being left by the trackside ,because of recovery costs etc , not track damage.

I'm not aware of anyone thats actually connected with the Simpson (agencies etc) , who actually say dont take trailers because they damage the track.

That comes from outsiders.
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Follow Up By: Robert - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 14:00

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 14:00
Hi Flappa,

It might be people connected with agencies as you put it , but we still have people mentioning that trailers cause damage.
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Follow Up By: flappa - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 14:08

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 14:08
I understand that , but most people say , that its Illegal to take a trailer across, when in fact its not.

They normally say that because they have some view that the Agencies tell people that , BECAUSE it damages the track.

OF COURSE trailers will damage the track , but so will ANY 4wd , and seeing how lots and lots of vehicles use the tracks . . . .does it matter ?

PS , I didn't see the original photo in relation to this thread , so I cant and wont comment on that , but , I have also been on the recieving end of criticism , of socalled bad behaviour , when the folks making the comments weren't aware of the full story.
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Reply By: Hellbelly - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 20:52

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 20:52
Hi Robert,

The exact cirumstances under which that photo was taken have been fully explained in this forum, yet you still seem to be questioning our morals. Here I am, I was in the vehicle, ask me anything and I will explain it again, Thanks, Tracy. (an appreciator of nature and conservationist).
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Follow Up By: Hellbelly - Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 21:15

Thursday, Apr 28, 2005 at 21:15
flappa,

the photo can be seen at fishsa.com. Go to the forum and scroll all the way down to '4X4 & Off Road'. Open that and scroll down to 'Sand Driving Practise at Dorado Downs'. It is the first pic shown in the thread of a BJ40 throwing up sand. It was a split second in time, we didn't get any further up the hill and had to reverse back down. I think it's a great pic, in an adventurous, people having fun, not doing any harm kind of way. Tracy.
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Reply By: Hellbelly - Friday, Apr 29, 2005 at 08:25

Friday, Apr 29, 2005 at 08:25
Well, I think we should just forget this whole thing and get back to having fun (responsibly). Isn't that why we have these vehicles anyway (please don't answer)? I know I'm a responsibly person and I don't have anything to prove.
No hard feeling Robert, c ya in the sand sometime :) .

Cheers.........Mick.
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Follow Up By: Robert - Monday, May 02, 2005 at 08:22

Monday, May 02, 2005 at 08:22
No hard feelings here.

Yeah!, may see ya in the sand sometime.

Cheers
Robert

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