Larger Alternator

Submitted: Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 16:34
ThreadID: 25381 Views:9664 Replies:11 FollowUps:17
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Gday All, has anybody put a larger alternator into a 3l Diesel Hilux. If so what did you put in. Spoke to an auto sparkie who wasn't in a very helpful mood but as I understand it the problem is with the vacuum pump atttached to the alternator. Bosch apparantly make a 140amp universal unit but this would only suit a petrol motor ie: vacuum pump issue for the diesel.

Just thought someone on here may have already gone through this and solved the problem.

Cheers
Al
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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 16:39

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 16:39
Well I'm not sure about the 5L (3.0L) diesel, but the turbo'd version (the 1kz-te) has the vacume pump on the other side of the motor and it is no way related to the alternator... I know the 2L-TE (2.4L) diesel's had the vacume pump at the back of the alternator and I think the 3L (2.8L) versions were the same...
Is your's a factory turbo?
AnswerID: 123980

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 17:19

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 17:19
No mate, just naturally aspirated, worse luck. The vacuum pump is on the front of the alternator. Just had a look at your rig profile, you seem to be running a fair bit of electrical gear have you upgraded your alternator? If not is the factory unit on yours 70amp.
I'm trying to run 2 x 170 Lightforce and 1 x 240 lightforce spotties, a 4x50w mp3 with a 250wpeak amp and sub, gme4200 uhf and in future gps and fridge. The auto sparkie I spoke to said I would definately need to put in a larger alternator.

Cheers
Al
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FollowupID: 378944

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 17:28

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 17:28
Yeah I'm running a lot of crap, it's the laptop and fridge (cooler drawing about 8-10amps @ 50%) that really hurt. I believe the standard surf alternator was 70amps, and that's what it's running. It struggles a little with the headlights, inverter, fridge and laptop going, but it manages to hold it's own even while recharging the 200amphrs of batteries on board. What really kills it is when all that is running and I turn on the 200w of spotties and high beams... Then she not happy at all, it'll still hold the voltage at a high idle but it'll go backwards and start chewing through the batteries at a 750rpm idle with everything going.
So yeah it works, I can't put much more on without upgrading the alternator though. If I bought a real fridge I'd be laughing, they would draw less than half what my current thing is. I'm also getting a new laptop soon and hopfully that will be better on the juice, the old NEC draws about 4 amps!

Just a tip if your using a lappy in the car and want to conserve power, rip the battery out. That'll almost halve your power consumption as it won't be trying to constantly charge the lappy battery too!
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FollowupID: 378946

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 17:30

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 17:30
Oh sorry, and regarding yours, I reckon you'll be alright. How big is the alternator on it now?
It's not like your going to be using the spotties all the time, the amp will not be drawing ALL the time, if you get a decent fridge you should be ok.
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FollowupID: 378948

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 17:50

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 17:50
Thanks for the info mate, sorta puts my mind a bit at ease.
The alternator on mine is 70 amp.
Maybe I should have a chat to a few more auto sparkies as the bloke I was talking to said I would fry the alternator but... he could've been after a bit more work also.
Just don't want to end up stranded out woop woop, maybe I should just crank it all up on the way home from work one night at least I could call the missus to come and pick me up if it all died.

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FollowupID: 378952

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 17:57

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 17:57
Hmmm, doesn't sound right to me... If your alternator was running at full capacity and you kept drawing more amps, all it's going to do is start taking some of that power from the batteries and eventually (and it'd take a long while) you'd end up with flat batteries.
I may be mistaken here, but I can't see you blowing your alternator up no matter how much your drawing as long as your batteries are in good nick.

If it were me, I'd probally be using a different auto sparky. Or even better, do it all yourself! ;-) It's good fun learning.

My suggestion is to go to Jaycar and buy one of those cool Tempeture/Voltage meters (they seem pretty accurate) and mount that some where on the dash, that way it's really easy to see exactly what's going on with your bat's, also if it does start to get hammered and the voltage drops bellow 11.5v it'll beep at you and let you know to turn the spotties off for 10 minutes!

But yeah, I wouldn't worry about getting strandard, I think that's highly unlikley, hell if it were a problem I wouldn't be typing this to you cos I'd be stuck out the middle of god knows where scratching my head wondering WTFs wrong with my car! LOL
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FollowupID: 378955

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 18:20

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 18:20
Yeah that's the way I thought but then when I spoke to this bloke I thought I might be wrong, but mate, your rigs living proof that what he was saying doesn't seem to be the case.
I don't actually use this bloke to work on my car tho I just pop in there to get bits and pieces, as I like to do as much on my rig as possible, I agree with you, it's good fun learning and it certantly helps when you have to fix something out on the track. The voltmeter is definately on the shopping list but it's just one of those things I haven't got around to...hmmmm might have to do something about that sooner rather than later.

Cheers

Al
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FollowupID: 378956

Reply By: banjodog - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 18:20

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 18:20
Just bolt in another high amp alternator from a Falcon / Commodore etc to charge another battery and run the accessories from there.

AnswerID: 123995

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 18:57

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 18:57
Yeah that was another option but I think even that would be a struggle It's a 2000 model and there's not much room under the bonnet, the younger they get the more they seem to cram in there.

Cheers
Al
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FollowupID: 378966

Follow Up By: banjodog - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 19:02

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 19:02
If that's the case then have yours rebuilt to a higher spec as suggested below.
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Reply By: S&N - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 18:38

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 18:38
have your alternotor pulled down and rebuilt! i spoke to an auto elec in sydney and he rebuilds them for more power output! ring around im sure others will be able to do it.
AnswerID: 124000

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 19:00

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 19:00
Now there's another option I certainly would be goin back to that bloke tho, suprising he didn't even mention it. Have you got any idea of the power increase available through doing this ?

Al
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FollowupID: 378967

Reply By: Stew53 - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 19:31

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 19:31
DiesAl
AnswerID: 124003

Reply By: Stew53 - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 19:47

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 19:47
DiesAl
Years ago when I lived in WA I had a Diesel van with a Hitachi alternator on it with a vac pump on the back, I made a dual AC unit for the van with twin condensor fans and a fridge and twin cibie 130 watters and high wattage headlights and dual batteries, the car would run in discharge all the time because it only had a 49 amp alternator, somebody put me on to an auto electrical place in Perth I think it was called Deering Electrics. The fellow there said he could rewire the alternator with more windings of lighter wire which would increase the output, he said they could get up to 250 amps from the alternator, I was a bid concerned about the high amps, and settled on 150amps, they rewound it can't remember how much but I do remember it was dirt cheap for what they did. I put it on the car and it never went into discharge again, worked well, there must be other place that will rewind an alternator.
Food for thought
Stew
AnswerID: 124005

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 20:24

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 20:24
Thanks mate, I think this option seems like the way to go if I need it but from what Jeff M was saying looks like I might not have to worry about it. I'll keep an eye on things and make a few enquiries in the mean time.

Al
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FollowupID: 378980

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 22:43

Friday, Aug 05, 2005 at 22:43
DiesAl,

Your spotlights need 8 amps each (24amps)
Your stereo about 10amps
Your UHF: less than 1 amp
Your GPS: next to nothing
Compressor fridge: 5 amps when cycling.

I don't think you have a problem.

With it all hooked up and going, measure the voltage with a digital multimeter. Usually is about 14 volts with the motor running. If your voltage drops down to say 13.0 with everything turned on and the motor revving at say 1500rpm, then you have a problem. Otherwise take it as it comes.

Cheers
phil
AnswerID: 124027

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 16:09

Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 16:09
Gday Phil, if I also add in say 10amps for high beam I'm looking at 50amps couple more amps for tail lights and with what Collyn was saying below the continuous rating being 70% that only gives me 49 amps to work with. I think my main worry is that I would fry the alternator, if it just doesn't keep up then I'm not stranded I can always switch something off. It seems Jeff isn't having that problem with all the gear he has on board and he hasn't fried the alternator yet, so I'm trying to work out whether the auto sparkie was just using scare tactics to drum up a bit more business.

Cheers
Al
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FollowupID: 379223

Reply By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Saturday, Aug 06, 2005 at 11:39

Saturday, Aug 06, 2005 at 11:39
There is a misconception running in this thread. And that is that alternators put out the amount at which thery are rated.

Not so. They generate a fair bit at idling, but most have a continuous rating that is about 70% of their peak rating.

There are however a few alternators around that are designed to put out their rated output continuously. (They are sometimes known as KKK-rated). I don't know if one is available for your specific vehicle - but Outback Marine in Qld. stock them.
Collyn Rivers
AnswerID: 124062

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 15:55

Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 15:55
Gday Collyn, what you were saying about the continuous rating being about 70% was what the auto sparky was saying but would I in fact "FRY" the alternator as was sugested or would it not just keep up and therefor flatten my battery? The latter I can handle as all I have to do is switch a few things off and I can still get home.

Al
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FollowupID: 379219

Reply By: Mainey (WA) - Saturday, Aug 06, 2005 at 19:25

Saturday, Aug 06, 2005 at 19:25
DiesAl
dosn't your Hilux have a seperate regulator under the dash ? ?
AnswerID: 124114

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 12:20

Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 12:20
Mainey, how would the regulator change things if he's drawing too much from his system? But I thought the Hilux regulator was built into the alternator?
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FollowupID: 379192

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 16:01

Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 16:01
Gday Mainey, no I think it is as Jeff M has said built into the alternator, what would the benefit be of having a seperate regulator? All I know is that the alternator is rated at 70 amp and I believe this is not a continuous rating as Collyn R was saying. If indeed it's continuous rating is 70% of 70amp then I think I'm pushing the boundaries a bit.

Al
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FollowupID: 379220

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 16:10

Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 16:10
I think what Collyn was reffering to in the 70% statement was not a duty cycle but a maximum output. ie. If the car is idling, it may only be putting out 70% of it's maximum power, however if your cruising on the highway it will be doing close to it's maximum power.
Hope that make sense?
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FollowupID: 379224

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 16:25

Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 16:25
Yeah thanks Jeff, I re-read that and I think your right.
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FollowupID: 379228

Reply By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 18:50

Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 18:50
DiesAl

Sounds like you have a good auto sparkie.

The output of an alternator is substantially a function of its rotational speed. Most develop about 60% of their rated output around 1800 alternator rpm and maximum rated output around 6000 alternator rpm.

Few people drive at a speed that corresponds to that peak output - 70% of that speed is more typical and alternator life is substantially predicated on this.

There is little worry about overloading the alternator unless you drive flat out in heat waves with everything electrical drawing current. The temperature it reaches depends on the work it is doing (which is governed by engine speed) and at lower speed it simply will not generate enough power to get dangerously hot - in other words it becomes unable to meet the load demand.

It is more likely that that the battery may slowly lose herbs. This is not a good thing to do with conventional starter batteries. They do not like deep discharges.

One suggestion is to use a larger and AGM starter battery. These charge faster and deeper at lower alt revs and will withstand deep discharges: handy if you do run it down. You could look at a sslightly smaller pully that drives the alternator a tad faster - and thus ups output - but you'd have to discuss that with the auto sparkie as some alts also supply the tacho speed reference (and there could be problems with belt slip).

Sorry to be generalising a bit in the above - but alternator characteristics vary a bit from maker to maker - the above however is true of most Bosch units.
Trust this helps
Collyn Rivers

AnswerID: 124333

Follow Up By: DiesAl - Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 19:14

Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 19:14
Thanks Collyn, I might just give it a run the way it is and keep a close eye on the battery with a voltmeter if I have any problems I'll look at getting it rebuilt for a higher output.

Cheers
Al
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FollowupID: 379244

Reply By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 19:23

Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 19:23
Makes sense!
Collyn
AnswerID: 124343

Reply By: DiesAl - Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 19:50

Monday, Aug 08, 2005 at 19:50
Thanks all for the help much appreaciated.

Al
AnswerID: 124348

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