Got to support the independents...

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 09, 2005 at 21:55
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I don't know about anyone else, but I reckon that Woolworths deserve to be taken to court in an anti-trust move. The directors and major shareholders are going to hold this whole damn country to ransom some day - if they aren't already. I'm going to buy my fuel (and I buy LOTS of it for a non-truckie) from the liitle guy from now on (as long as their fuel is clean).
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Stations to take on fuel giants
By John Lehmann
August 09, 2005
From:

Petrol prices
War ... independant providers are trying to take on big suppliers

AUSTRALIA'S army of independent service stations has been drawn into the petrol price war, with as many as 1200 to offer 4c-a-litre discounts in a desperate bid to stop supermarket giants ripping away about $2billion in fuel sales a year.

Independent operators are battling to stay in business as customers flock to discount petrol schemes set up by Woolworths, Coles and independent grocer IGA. And the fight for customers is set to intensify as petrol prices continue surging towards $1.25 a litre.

Sydney prices are tipped to hit $1.25 by tomorrow, with motorists in Melbourne paying as much as $1.20 yesterday. Adelaide prices have soared to $123.9 a litre, while in Hobart, prices hit a record $121.9 yesterday.

Motorists in western and northern parts of Queensland, such as Weipa, were paying $1.24.

And in Perth, FuelWatch last night warned prices at some metropolitan service stations would reach close to $1.20 today.

Despite the high prices, independent operators were "under the hammer" from supermarket deals, with about 200 outlets shutting down in the past six months, Service Station Association chief executive Ron Bowden said. He said the independents' share of Australia's $17 billion petrol market had plunged by 30 per cent in two years, or about $2 billion in sales a year.

"If we just sit back and do nothing, a couple of thousand service stations will be forced to close down," he said. More than 50 per cent of petrol was now sold in supermarket outlets, which made up only 14 per cent of service stations.

Under the independents' new loyalty scheme, called SaveSmart, motorists receive a 4c-a-litre discount on up to 50L of fuel after buying specially marked food and drink items from petrol station shops. Each item will cost no more than $10, compared with the supermarket deals that require shoppers to spend at least $30 to get a discount. Companies participating in the scheme - such as Coca-Cola, Schweppes, Arnotts and Mars - will subsidise the discount.

Mr Bowden, whose association is co-ordinating the program, said between 1000 and 1200 independents were expected to join the scheme by the end of next year. About 100 operators had signed up in the past month.

The association also plans to widen the scheme by negotiating agreements with a range of retailers, such as whitegoods manufacturers, liquor outlets and hardware stores, where motorists could buy goods and receive petrol discounts.

Isaac Obadia, who manages a Liberty petrol outlet in Caulfield, Melbourne, said his customers had been pushing harder for petrol discounts in recent months. "If we want to compete against the big guys, we have to try this, but it will take time to see how it works out," he said.

Woolworths and Coles have dramatically increased their share of petrol sales since launching discount schemes over the past two years.

Coles, which is pumping petrol at 597 Shell-Coles Expresses, is expected to announce this month that its fuel sales doubled to more than $5 billion last financial year. Woolworths, which now has 458 Caltex and Woolworths petrol stations involved in its program, sold $3.3 billion worth of petrol in the past year, a 51 per cent rise.

Mobil Oil Australia is also getting into the discount war, rolling out a scheme in Adelaide last week in which motorists get 4c-a-litre off when they spend $5 at the petrol station shop.

The offer will be extended to Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane if successful in Adelaide. But BP Australia has no plans to join the frenzy. BP Australasia chief Gerry Hueston said last week the discount deals were unprofitable.
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Reply By: Scubaroo - Tuesday, Aug 09, 2005 at 22:24

Tuesday, Aug 09, 2005 at 22:24
There's a school of thought that if you're going to own shares - buy shares in the companies you deal with, e.g. Coles - that way you get some of your spendings back as dividends. Don't open a high-interest account with a bank for example - buy their shares instead :-)

It's easy to foresee a future with only two or three fuel chains in Australia - Coles and Safeway aligned stations, and maybe the independents if this scheme gets off the ground.
AnswerID: 124531

Reply By: RobEG - Tuesday, Aug 09, 2005 at 23:51

Tuesday, Aug 09, 2005 at 23:51
Mate and then there is the grog! 30 pack of middy cans used to be >$30 now $36.
AnswerID: 124542

Reply By: arthurking83 - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 00:40

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 00:40
What strikes me as a ridiculous situation now................
A couple of years ago, maybe 3, petrol was around 70c/l, maybe 80c tops??
(My memory isn't the best!) when the supermarkets started the discount voucher scheme, it was worth it!
You paid about $80 for 100 litres, saved $4. In percentage terms, a 5% saving, give or take!
Now with fuel @ $1.25/l, on $125 for the same 100litres, your $4 savings amounts to 3.2% saving!
I don't know about you guys, but I see where this is going.
People used to save money by using the fuel vouchers, but they don't realise that they can get their groceries cheaper, saving more than $4 by going to the markets for fruit/veg, etc, etc...
By the end of this year, "when" petrol is $2.50/l (because our 'mate' Johnny, has absolute control of the country, and can do as he pleases, thus INCREASES every tax by a factor of 100!!!, and spends LESS on health and educatio......!! did I just digress then?) :))..............Oh yeah back to the topic!
Anyway the point is, as fuel prices go up there is less reason to use these vouchers.
At $80, $4 makes a difference. At $125, who gives a bleep about $4, I've just blown one bleeding hundred and bleeding twenty five bleeding dollars!!

So....... as the man says support the independent.
BTW I'm not an "independent", I'm a courier.
I run my Rodeo on gas, and at 35-40c/l the discounts actually make a difference.
I spend about $100-150 on gas a week, thus I could save between $11-17/week.
But when I fill with petrol sometimes I just go the the nearest, preferrably high octane stocking independent!

I reckon as the sting of the V8 on the hip pocket starts to hurt, the gas conversion specialists will see an increase in business!
Is it my imagination or have V8 engined vehicles quadrupled in the last year or so, 4WD or otherwise?
5 or so years ago there were maybe 5(?) car makers with V8 options. Rover, Holden, Ford, Rolls, Merc, ??.............
Now it seems as though even hyundai are going to be selling V8 engined somethings. Christ sake! VolksWagen are selling cars with V8!!
AnswerID: 124545

Follow Up By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 07:33

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 07:33
Well said Arthur

VW, by the way, have developed the W12 too. Bloody idiotic.
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Follow Up By: Nudenut - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 08:29

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 08:29
a v12? but in reallity how many cc? it will be small i bet? this is how they get compact vehicles and thus increased iffeciency is it not?

and no doubt it will be diesel and blown?

if you have work to do nothing beats grunt.....small 2 litre engines cant give a midsize or larger 4wd grunt!

Can you imagine a 2litre motor in a car that should really have 4.5 or 5litres?
what is idiotic about having a 12 cylinder motor providing its efficient...are you trying to say VW hasnt done their homework.....if so it wont sell cos no one will be able to afford the fuel right!? wait and see?

some people want every one to have the same size car....if that is to be the case then i vote for TOYOTA LC 80 and up! not some make believe 4wd like jeep :-)..be buggerd if i'm going to get a buzz box ...although the missus would like one of them Kompressor jobs....but they are a bit hard to use a service vehicle (ladders & tools and all).....hey if i take the boot lid off could i call it a ute?

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Follow Up By: gramps - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 08:51

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 08:51
v12's have been around a long time (Jaguar etc). Driven sensibly, a v8 does not use a lot more fuel than a v6. But then again, not many people drive a v8 sensibly. As per Nudenut's reply, not everyone wants to drive a sub 2 litre buzz box.
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Follow Up By: Member - John C (QLD) - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 09:20

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 09:20
It is not a V12, but a W12.

Take a V6 engine of 70 deg between banks, take another V6 the same and put it next to the first one, but with 15 deg between the adjoining banks.

So you have 70/15/70 deg between banks, and a W12 with 4 rows of cylinders.
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Follow Up By: Nudenut - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 09:36

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 09:36
okay same thing just different haha
but does that retract from what I said about about it supposedly being fuel efficient ?
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Follow Up By: gramps - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 09:38

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 09:38
Whoops! I'll just put that pumpkin back on. Sorry about that guys. Thanks for the clarification John.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:08

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:08
VW W12 - 11.2 mpg urban cycle. It's a guzzler around town. 6 litres is 6 litres no matter what.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:17

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:17
Whoops - 11.2mpg is 21L/100km....
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Follow Up By: gramps - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:24

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:24
Ha Ha. I was trying to figure out your reference to 6 litres. 21l/100km ..... crikey, my old SS with 5.7l v8 ran on the sniff of an oily rag compared to that.
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Follow Up By: Nudenut - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:42

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:42
mmm your right, it is thristy, more than i thought it would be
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Follow Up By: Member - John C (QLD) - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 17:24

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 17:24
Just did a check on carsguide.com.au. for the new A8 W12.

Quote

"The engine has 331kW of power and 580Nm of torque, which takes the W12 to 100km/h in 5.4 seconds, to 200km/h in 17.4 seconds and hits its regulated speed of 250km/h in 30 seconds. All on 13.9 litres of fuel per 100km. "

13.9 isn't too bad for a 6 litre car. Of course that is not doing the 250km/hr in 30 secs :-).
quick calc says 13.9l/100km = 20.1 mpg

And it has a bit more power than a 5.7l V8 :o)

Son just got 20l/100km in the Qld Challange and that was a 1.8l engine.
Just depends on how hard you put your foot down.
I can remember doing the same with a 1.3l engine.
Remmember the old racing V8s at Bathurst in the 80s got 2 to 3mpg.
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Follow Up By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 17:39

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 17:39
John - VW Phaeton 19.1L/100km city. Same engine.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/overviews/2005/volkswagen/phaeton.php
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Follow Up By: Member - John C (QLD) - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 20:35

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 20:35
Thanks Chrispy,
That figure I quoted is the aussie rules average figure for the A8 which is alot lighter than the phaeton. Same engine though.
It is still alot of fuel thses days, no matter how you drive!
I get better economy out of 4wd :-)
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Reply By: arthurking83 - Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 22:46

Wednesday, Aug 10, 2005 at 22:46
Sorry if I sound like a greenie 8)
I didn't mean to come across that way! ( I own a rangie for goodness sake)
But I hope I'm sensible enough to realise that I don't need to use it to "just get around" !!
In fact I haven't used it at all in the last 2 years, it just guzzles way too much.
So for those that need a V8, or feel a car that "needs" a V8 have yet to drive a Saab turbo, or Beemer 6
I can guarrantee you "YOU DON'T NEED A V8!"
These things will cruise at 300kmh all day without effort *LOL* (yes I realise this sounds slightly exaggerated).
The point is I drive it sensibly and I get 12Km/l. When I get to the back end of 15 cars on the Melba hwy, coming home from the alps, I invariably end up in front within 5 minutes :o (OK, another exaggeration!)
I hope the point is made.
3litre 6 cyl, with variable valve timing doodahs etc, etc, is plenty enough, and less wasteful! That's the point. Being less wasteful with limited resources. Not encouraging every "would be Schumacher" to drive V8 Volkswagens, etc, etc..........

I just hope my (now 5 year old) son gets a chance to drive a car.
If he's not employed as an overpaid pollie by age 15, I'd dare say he won't be able to afford it!
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Follow Up By: Member - Chrispy (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 11, 2005 at 07:39

Thursday, Aug 11, 2005 at 07:39
I agree with you Arthur

I have two Saab Turbos (and have had lots over the years - call me an enthusiast!) and they are, for one, very efficient for their engine size (2 litre turbo=7L/100km avg) and they go like stink for overtaking. That's probably because mine are wound up a bit over standard.... like 21lb boost. I don't use the power unless it's in short bursts overtaking slow traffic up into the Snowies. Power is "safety" if you use it sensibly.

I certainly don't want a V8.
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