Is the extra spare wheel becoming obsolete?..............

Willem
I reckon a fair proportion of the weight is the tyre itself. An alloy rim doesn't add much. I'd have to say that on every trip I've been on at least one of the vehicles has used more than one spare. And thats using plugs and fixing most punctures before the tyre is destroyed. I always carry two spares, and when I take the trailer with wheels interchangeable with the car, I take 3 or 4. There's nothing worse than a three cornered car.

It's something I've always asked myself Willem - given that for a while these I was in a smaller car (the Jeep). Now I'm back in a full-sized 4WD the question re-opens itself for me too. Given that I have room in front of the rooftop tent (small 1/3 rack) then yes, I'll carry the second FULL spare up there.

I suppose that you just never know when a trail or track vanishes in front of you (drowned out, dust storm, etc) and you have to follow your GPS and just go cross-country for a while. Severe tyre problems are par for the course at that stage.

I'd just rather have it than not. Then again, if I don't have room (like in the Jeep) I don't take it.... because I can't.

Murphy's Law. If you don't carry it you will need it. I've never had a puncture yet (tempting fate now).

Willem

I suppose then it begs for the appearance of Murphy in full vengance.

I know they can be a pain in the proverbial until needed but I suppose I would rather lug one around and not need it rather than need one and not have it.

I would agree that tyres in general have become a lot more reliable and robust
over the past few years and failures seem to be less of a hassle. If going remote I would still carry one. If just going for a big drive and staying fairly close to civilisation, probably not.

Cheers
Wal

Willem,
IMHO it all depends on where you travel.
Certain roads/tracks are a nightmare for your tyres, whilst "TYPICAL" dirt and bitumen roads have given me only one puncture in the last 15 years....whatever typical means.....

On the other hand we destroyed a tyre the other day in the missus 4 cyl car coming home the 2 klms from Woolies- A sharp piece of steel fell off a truck in front of us which collected the sidewall of the tyre- nearly new and destroyed!
Call it Murphy's law..

4 wheelers aside how about these new luxury cars that have no spare wheels at all. My son-in law bought a Crossfire. (His choice - no taste), and all they give you is a pressure can of tyre repair fluid. About as useful as throwing cream puffs at the town hall when the walls ripped. He got two punctures at once in the second week and the dealer had to send out a tow truck to pick the car up and take it back to the workshop. A couple of thousand dollars later for two new 19" low profile tyres and its back on the road the next day. In the meantime they lent him a Jeep Cherokee. He cannot even fit a roof rack on the Crossfire to put a spare on!!!

Hi Willem,
I know what you are saying. I usually carry 2 spare wheels, but they are a pain in the ar..se having to move them out of the way to get to other stuff on the roof rack. I find it easier to just change the whole wheel than patching tyres. I guess it depends on where you are going. A bit like taking out house insurance, seems like a waste of money until your house burns down.

Happy travelling
Cheers

I think the first time you dont carry one ... you will kick yourself for not having it....

Willem,

Some numbers:

I haven't had a puncture in the desert for 6 years. I do at least 2 big desert trips and a few small trips per year.

I've run 3 Simpson Desert club trips (26 vehicles) and no one has had a puncture.

I've run 3 Anne Beadell Hwy club trips (18 vehicles) and had a total of 2 punctures. Another vehicle had 2 tube failures with split rims (Korean tubes).

IMO, if travelling in a group where tyres or casings are interchangable, you don't need a second spare provided you adhere to the following:
- run low pressures (<25psi),
- Don't overload
- Speed below 80kph
- Run good tubeless tyres with plenty of tread.

If I were to travel alone, its all different. Always take a second spare casing or mounted spare plus tube.

Likewise, if running split rims, you need a mounted second spare.

And tubeless plug kits are a great invention.

Cheers
Phil

I drove up to the Kimberly, visited a few gorges along the Gibb River Road, went to Mitchell Falls, all with no problem at all. Then, within 20 kms either side of Ellenbrae, I used all three of the spares I was carrying, AND I had to plug one and refit it as I managed 4 punctures in all. One lost the sidewall completely, one was too big a gash to plug. The guy at Ellenbrae told me (after puncture number 2) that this sort of thing often happens after the grader has been through to stand all the sharp rocks up neatly on edge! He claimed, and I believe him, that the grader is subsidised by one of the tyre shops in Kunnunurra! 8-)

So, yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. I did the old Gunbarrel without a single puncture, it all depends on how the great God Goodyear (may his name be praised) feels on the day.

Willem

I always carry a second spare, although its never been needed. I just know that Murphy bloke is waiting for the day that I dont. LOL I dont see it as being any different to carrying all of the other spares that we take. A tyre is still the most likely thing to let you down so it makes sense to double up.

Maybe strap a casing to the door mounted spare and if nothing else you can fill it with rubbish.

Hi Willem,

I think your question is probably the ultimate one that we all ask ourselves before heading into 'the great unknown'. But fate being the fickle mistress that she is you can almost guarantee that you will be in the most inhospitable terrain when that first tyre becomes irreparably damaged, and even though the chances of a second tyre going the same way are slender, the stresses created by the images of such a scenario endangering the travelling companions who mean so much to us are something that shouldn't spoil a great trip. My feeling is take an extra case as a bare minimum.

Our little group (york 4x4 ) (usualy 4 to 6 veichels) has dun over 20 trips with no punctures . This last trip however , two weeks in the Pilbara , a total of 4 flats with 2 tyres throwaways . It don't matter how good a driver you are or how carefull you are , it can still happen anywhere . I for one , will still carry my spare , plus two caseing's and tube's . Some of those trips inclued Connie Sue , Gun Barrel and Kimberly's . Cheers Errol

carry the carcass only, and stuff it with stuff that will use the available space.

D-Jack

It's a question I keep throwing up in the air myself... I' grew up in the pilbra and we ALWAYS had two spares. With the surf and the family, however, it's not an easy thing to do and to this date I havn't. I've tossed up the idea of putting a second spare under the back (where the factory spare is on the 4runner) but also want that space for a long range tank and have thought the same things as you...

I carry some of that green tyre gue that's supposed to fix two 4wd tyres but have never tried it and probally wouldn't like to rest my families life on it!! But we don't really go to many remote places by ourselves anyway, we normally have at least one other vehicle with us if we are straying right off the beaten track. At least I have 31"R15 tyres, must be the most common out there in the bush...

its a what if !!!!????

have you packed enough coopers till help arrives?

Go on Willem. I dare you.

We have just travelled 17000ks from Qld to Wa and back. Found one cooper that was previously on car until the trip and then put on the trailer ended up with a bubble in tyre. Broken casing not fixable so new tyre - well put second hand one one as we had extra spares back home to put back on. Luckily still not on car as could have been a blow out while driving. New Coopers put on for trip got to Halls Creek coundnt do the Plenty closed due to wet so went the Bucannan about 20 - 30ks out one flat tyre found screw in tyre so back to Halls Creek to repair -both us and the repairer didnt see the hole in the tyre where a rock had gone through unfixable - needed to buy new tyre so we had a spare for trip home. So will always carry at least one for the car and one for the trailer and if room a casing as well.

The 2nd spare is the only reason we are considering getting a proper roof rack - don't want to do it because of becoming more top heavy but feel it's a must have for more remote trips. - and if I get a rack I'll probably then fill it with other stuff like jerries, space case etc and then fuel bill goes up etc ..... all because of a bluddy trye.

we have weakspot for the blues too Willem.

Hi Willem... I rekon there would be a greater chance of getting a flat that there would be of splitting a radiator hose but we all take extra water dont we?..
Both problems can stop us in our tracks..

Is it just my imagination or are all the tyres that have been destroyed, and thrown by the wayside, on rough roads always mud terrain types?
On our last outingting to Finke, I noticed lots of those dinky 12" tyres usually found on poptops! Did the driver of that vehicle really think he was going to make it to Dalhousie or wherever with those tyres?
Also there was one chap that had Magna sedan as his choice of transportation to and beyond there!
He must have left Dalhousie about an hour before us, and we passed him on our way to Mt Dare. He arrived (in one piece) about an hour later.
Said he averaged about 30kmh and topped about 50. I remember the road was littered with rocks the size of oranges!
But he made, tyres and all!

Travelling mthe grr i made it into kunnanura with 2 wrecked tyres and one with just 10 psi. but to answer your q if running splits then maybe yes you only need a do nut max As I generally remove the tyre fix the puncture and put it back on . That was for work Since going to splits and cross plys for personall use It would be very rare to get a flat as cross plys will take most track work in thjeir stide and it takes severe cross country work to get the occasional flat - not the sort of thing your average shmo undertakes. Before going to splits my answeer would be are you mad as i suffered many punctures and wrecked tyres using radials

Willem,
As my old man would say "You would be better off looking at it, than looking for it son" (in his best thick Irish accent). Be a bit of a risk not carrying it knowing some of the places you go!

Mick

Havent carried a 6th spare since 2002, when MTRs became available, and I run super low pressures, high speeds, and abuse my tyres, to see what they put up with, given i sell them all, I want to know what lasts, and even this years desert trip Hay river, cross country, some of Madigan line, the hay river bed for 160km, etc, as well as high speed gravel, from murray sunset, dangalli, Arkaroola etc on way up, and across the lambert centre, Abminga, Eringa, Oodnadatta, oodnadatta track on the way back, and have only needed my spare once since 2002, in the high country, onbly because of a leaking bead I couldnt be bothered fixing while in the spot I was.

If I ran standard fitment OEM tyres, i would still be carrying a 6th spare.

Hi Willem,

I am totally agreeing with everyone else.

Did my first outback trip this year, including the Simpson Desert and we didn't have one puncture. I took six tyres, a tube various puncture repair bits and tyre pliers. Never needed any of it. Worse that happened was one guy had a slow leak after very low pressures on Big Red, with sand in the bead. The guys in Birdsville cleaned the beads no worries.

I won't bother with six tyres again, unless it was something like the Hay river or the Canning. A relatively new set of MTRs or similar tyres seemed to work very well. We even had a guy with a set of Dueler ATs that were 9/10ths stuff, and he had no problems.

RIP 2nd spare.

Andrew

G'day Willem
I assume you are referring to the carrying of 2 spares. If so I'll go against the general consensus and say that I only carry one and always have. Been to lots of places and sure I've had a few flats over the years, but rarely have flats resulted in totally stuffed tyres. The only time I actually had to buy tyres whilst on a trip was when I made the mistake of going with semi bald tyres - never again. I always take tubes, patches etc and ususally travel with someone else. Our little group is happy to lend each other a spare if necessary. But even if going alone I still only have the one spare. Yep it could happen that I stuff 2 tyres but then again I could have a heart attack, a croc could eat me, space junk could wipe me out, a taipan could bite me etc. I'm willing to accept the risk.

Thanks for all your thoughts fellas. An interesting subject.

I always carry a spare casing.

I see however, that on our 1987 cross country Simpson trip, we only carried the normal spare. I did have brand new BFG muddies on the Suzuki though. My mate had brand new Desert Duellers. We did not get any punctures.

A couple of months later my old mate, Ron Moon, led a convoy of 10 vehicles over the Madigan Line and they managed 45 punctures between them.

Seeing as I do solo trips to remote areas on a regular basis I do heed on the side of caution. My next set of tyres will most likely be Wrangler MTR's and I have been told by yet another forumite that he no longer carries the extra spare since xwitching to MTR's.

Nope they are not obsolete at 3.30am in the morning with nothing open, and you have got another 900km to get home. :)

I am pretty chuffed with our carrier it allows us to change a tyre on the fly in under 25 minutes doors open to doors closed, compared to having to muck around with the tyre winch under the vehicle. My wife says its paid for itself twice already.

I think they are Great, If i lived in a large town/city like say Cairns I would not have one, As they are trully a pain for tight city parking spaces and make the cruiser a lot longer.

I have always wondered how these old fellas get those tyres off the roof rack, and then back up there.

As a seasoned tyre fitter...i can say that really one doesn't need to carry any spare tyre / wheel...providing you can repair any damaged unit on the spot !!...all you need is a complete tyre fitting and repair facility incorporated into your unit, providing spare tubes, tubeless repair kits with tyre spreaders, compressed air, spare tubes...(Michelins are the only really reliable ones) ..., glues. patches and gaiters.., not to mention the quick fix 'plugs' and prodgers needed for those tubless units..combined with a small amount of experience coupled with a serios amount of brawn and fall back experience to accomplish the 'deed '...don't forget the tyre levers and a welter of experience in fitting and removing tyres from a host of assorted rim styles .. its really something we can all do around a feast of beer but when in the bush with SHMBO..barking...

IT'S EASIER TO CARRY TWO SPARE WHEELS.............drink to that !!!

as for ...'awkward to tie down and a complete waste of time' ....that's the missus ure talking about !!...and ure right on that !!!

Howdy Willem
One of the mods I had (repeat - had) on my wish list was for a dual rear wheel carrier. However after 50 000 km's on my Wrangler MTR's and not even a hint of trouble, I must confess to being prepared to run the gauntlet now and put the 2 grand towards my daughters education or something worthwhile like that.
The Cruiser would look great though but I'm not that much into it any more and especially not for that money.
Tyres really are a lot more reliable nowadays aren't they?

My regards to Jude (& G&M when you see them next)