Spare tyre as a reservoir for compressor

Submitted: Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 22:38
ThreadID: 26084 Views:4719 Replies:12 FollowUps:21
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Hi all,

Came across a post on another forum when trawling the archives (in a bored moment) regarding the practice of over-inflating your spare and with a specially fabricated hose etc "plumbing" it into your air compressor as a reservoir / tank to make airing up quicker.

There was also talk of using the pressure from an over-inflated spare to reseat a bead. I gather you take the valve out of the tyre to be reseated and have some sort of hose connection to the spare. I have a picture in my head of a simple piece of air hose with connectors at each end to screw onto the 2 valves. I guess you connect it to the "flat" tyre with the bead to be reseated 1st and then when you screw it onto the spare it releases the valve?

There wasn't a lot of detail but both ideas sounded plausible. Has anyone seen such a setup? Is it of any value? How would each of the concepts be "plumbed"?

There was also a lot of discussion on the thread about how much pressure it is safe to carry in your spare but I wouldn't be considering anything extreme. With regard to reseating the bead it may just mean using your compressor at the time to put higher pressure in the spare before you do it.

Also included talk of using the pressure in the spare to "blow out" things where the output of your 12v compressor is not enough.

Just thinking it might be a useful bit of hose to have in the kit if it works.

Any comments appreciated

Trevor
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 22:44

Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 22:44
Why not mount a compressor and small air tank, or Endless air if possible.

IMHO overinflating a spare is not worth squat.
AnswerID: 128032

Follow Up By: Casnat - Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 22:53

Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 22:53
absolutely zero room under my bonnet to mount anything bigger than a matchbox so endless air is completely out of the question and the compressor etc would need to be mounted somewhere else.

My compressor will pump up my tyres and it has successfully reseated a bead (albeit a struggle) but I just thought it was an interesting idea and I wondered if it had any merit.

Cheers
Trevor
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 23:12

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 23:12
Put the compressor under the drivers/passengers seat.
thats where mine is, works well, fresh clean air, and easy to access
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 22:51

Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 22:51
Trevor,

I have exactly that which you describe.

A two metre length of air hose with connector's at each end and the addition of an on/off valve in between.

I usually have the spare inflated to about 50-60 psi and use the reservoir of air to fill up the petrol tank from jerry cans using a "tanami pump".
Can top up from the jerrys without removing them from the camper trailer and they are earthed via the metal safety chains between trailer and vehicle.

This saves the minor hassle of connecting up the air compressor to refuel. I'm just a lazy bugger I am.

It's surprising on what one can do when suitably motivated hey!
Bill


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AnswerID: 128034

Follow Up By: nickoff - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 11:30

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 11:30
I too have thought long and hard on this subject, but what i want to know, if a little off topic, is what is a "Tanami Pump"

Thanks
Nick
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 14:40

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 14:40
Nick,

Check this Website for the answer:- Tanami Pump
Bill


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Reply By: D-Jack - Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 22:52

Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 22:52
My bluetongue resets my 16 inch tyre beads. Sounds a lot easier!
AnswerID: 128035

Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 23:31

Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 23:31
Sounds exactly the same effort to me, just much quicker. Trouble is you can only inflate one tyre before you need to reinflate the spare. A spare starting off at 60 psi would leave both tyres at 30 psi if the other started off at atmospheric pressure (flat).
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 23:51

Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 23:51
Bob,
I'm no physics expert..........but something inside my small amount of grey matter tells me that a tyre @60psi, when connected to a tyre @ atmospheric pressure, would (for some reason I don't really understand), see both tyres with equall pressure of something LESS than 30psi.
I certainly could be wrong....just a gut feel.
Roachie
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 08:57

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 08:57
Roachie,
the relevant law is PV =nRT. Which basically says that provided Temperature and amount of gas are constant, Pressure in a system is inversely prortional to Volume.
Assume tyre volume is 30L. At 60 psi the actual pressure in the spare tyre is 75 psi (add atmospheric pressure) so the amount of air is 30 X 75 units. The amount of air in the flat tyre is 30 X 15 units. The total amount of air in the two tyres is therefore 2700 units. When you connect the tyres via a hose the volume of the system is 60 L, so the pressure is 2700 divided by 60 which comes out to 45 psi. You need to take away the 15 psi of atmospheric pressure (your tyre gauge measures the difference between the pressure of the atmosphere and the tyre) which gives 30 psi. Disconnect the hose and you have 30 psi in each tyre.
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Follow Up By: D-Jack - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 11:51

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 11:51
Bob of KAOS, no wonder they don't call you Bob of ORDER - I get the same result by 60psi divided by 2 tyres equals 30 psi. Derhhhhh

Just kidding. But curious, if the spare is inflated to 80 psi won't you get 40 in both after inflation of the flat? (I can't do the maths you just said)

D-JAck
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 13:16

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 13:16
D Jack
yes you will. I just did it the long way to show why it works out like that.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 19:16

Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 19:16
Will actually be slightly less that half pressure as the connecting tube has volume as well...Of course may not be a measurable amount but that will depend on diameter and length of hose.
Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 23:30

Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 23:30
I have used this method to reseat tyres and it does work. Sometimes I can reseat a bead with just the compressor, while other times I have had to resort to the spare tyre method as I just couldn't get the bead to seal with only the limited flow from my ARB compressor. I have a coiled hose with proper valve end connectors and given the small amount of room it takes up, I reckon its a worthwhile addition to carry.

Cheers

Captain
AnswerID: 128037

Reply By: Member - Jay Gee (WA) - Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 23:50

Friday, Sep 02, 2005 at 23:50
It's an old method that used to be popular back in the days before (portable) high capacity air compressors were around.

I remember in the 1980s Jack Absolom demonstrated it on one of his TV specials.

It's one of those "tricks of the trade" or last resort for getting out of trouble with back to basics bush mechanics. A bit like the days when Len Beadell would use mulga wood and fencing wire to mend a broken spring.

Nowadays we don't realise how much luxury we got out in the bush
AnswerID: 128040

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 16:32

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 16:32
Jay Gee
I remember seeing the show he told people to put a 100 psi in a standard car tyre.
Had to come back on a couple of weeks later saying that 100 psi in a standard tyre was unsafe

But anyway he had some good tips (long before all the experts of today)

Richard

If Ican remember he was driving a sigma
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 02:30

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 02:30
I use a 3-way hose that links the two tyres and the compressor, so the compressor refills the tyre tank. Like Captain says, most tubeless can be reseated just with a compressor, so I use this method to help with the stubborn ones. The stubborn ones are usually tyres fitted to a maximum size rim. For instance, a 265 tyre mounted on a 7 inch rim, almost always inflates with just a pump, but if mounted on an 8 inch rim, can be a bugger to reseat.

You don't need to "overinflate" as most LT tyres have a max pressure of 65 or 80 psi. It provides more capacity than most air tanks that people go to the trouble of fitting. But I never bother using it for quicer reinflation of tyres, because that only works for the first tyre. Its something thats very simple and cheap to make up.

Cheers
Phil
AnswerID: 128048

Follow Up By: Casnat - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 06:19

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 06:19
Hi Phil,

Thanks for your response. Can you please describe further / provide details of how to make up the 3 way hose you are talking about.

Trevor
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 14:51

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 14:51
Trevor,

The KISS appproach is simply a hose with a tyre connector each end. Put it on the flat tyre first, then slip on the 60psi tyre to inflate quickly. And those connectors that Grungle has shown us look great.

I just improved the simple hose, by adding a 3-way brass barbed connector in the middle, adding a 3rd hose with a male valve end on it. For the male valve end, I just stripped the rubber off a tubeless valve, and was left with a brass connector.

To use it, I hook it up to the flat tyre first (no valve), then hook it up to the pump, and start the pump, then hook the 3rd end onto the 60+psi tyre and you get the whoosh of air to reseat the bead. If it's not working well enough, just roll the flat tyre a bit, until the bead seats.

Doesn't work every time - some tyres can be a bugger to seat because they've been levered off crooked, or the wheels are wide in relation to the tyre. For these, I carry a 16 inch bicycle tube to bridge the gap, use soapy water (Lux flakes is supposed to be good), and keep fingers crossed. The old trick of tightening a rope around the tread of the tyre doesn't seem to work on the later tyres - the tread always seems to buckle.

We muck around with these techniques on driver training days in the sand - theres always tyres getting rolled off rims.

Cheers
Phil
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Reply By: Grungle - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 07:41

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 07:41
I bought an inflator piece from a tyre shop that is used to reseat beads. You remove the valve and screw the piece onto the outside of the valve stem then it is a standard air coupling to connect to a air hose. Definately worth the money of $6. If you have the volume of air then it seats beads in around 3 seconds. Spare is ideal but I wouldn't go above 60 PSI and definately wouldn't keep it at that pressure. If you are going to use the spare then you would need 2 of he couplings as both valves would need to be removed.

!MPG:3!

Regards
David
AnswerID: 128057

Reply By: mfewster - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 08:06

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 08:06
Re seating tyres-central Ozstyle.
Very simple and impresses onlookers no end.
With the tyre on the rim, but not sealed , pour about 1/3 cup of petrol into the tyre carcase. leave a thin "fuse" of petrol from the petrol inside the tyre trickling outside to the exterior of the tyre.

STAND BACK

Toss something burning at the fuse. There will be an almighty bang, the tyre will jump a couple of feet in the air. It will now be perfectly sealed. Wait for applause from stunned watchers.
AnswerID: 128059

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 08:46

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 08:46
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeees! Way to go mfewster.

Mate you forgot to tell the the 'readers' to make sure they take the valve out before 'firing' the sucker up. Otherwise there may be 'interesting' results.

AND (always one of these)

Carry and use Shellite if you can. Tad safer than petrol and when you drive a diesel - where you gonna get the petrol from.

For all you wuss's, nancypants etc who read this and go ooooooooooh! how irresponsible are they, go suck a lemon or join Harold Scrubby's brigade. Who gives a 'rats' when you are out there, without air, and need a bead re seated.

This method works every time and as mfewster says, impresses onlookers no end.
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 09:02

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 09:02
I reckon thats why the yanks are in so much trouble at the moment (post Katrina). They don't have people like mfewster with commonsense able to solve simple problems on the ground as they arise.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 10:05

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 10:05
I like it! :)

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 16:40

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 16:40
I was thinking the petroluem would damage the rubber ove rthe coming months - then I realised that after the match, there would be no petroleum left !!!
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Follow Up By: Casnat - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:03

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:03
here's a link showing how not to do it

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48962
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FollowupID: 382740

Reply By: Member - RockyOne - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 10:51

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 10:51
I run four rigs,three older ones,all have a 20foot 1'4" (6m x 6mm) air hose and "clip on" chucks each end in each 4x4..Simple as you can get..I run about 60psi in ea spare (way within the safety range) Magic way to blow up a flat tyre or low one..Can't over inflate..Gives me time to something else while I let it "do it's thing.I also carry a portable "Truck" compressor,also, in the "Adventure"rig..My hose set-ups have saved other folks as well as me..So cheap..So ezy to carry..So safe (Yeah! I know.I ramble on a bit) :-)
AnswerID: 128072

Reply By: mfewster - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 17:28

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 17:28
Thanks for all the complimentary replies to the central oZ technique for seating tyres. Got to confess, it's not mine, I learnt it at a local 4WD course in Alice. It so easy, so fast, such fun, it has always surprised me that it doesn't seem to be more widely known.
AnswerID: 128129

Reply By: mfewster - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:33

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 19:33
Casnat, your suggested link is sensational, the best 4WD laugh I've seen. I think this whole thread should be posted again under another title as it has some great advice and great moments that it would be a shame to might miss.

I feel the need to quickly state that I take no responsibility for "collateral damage". Personally, I've never seen it fail. Perhaps petrol is better because it does in fact explode and extinguishes itself inside the tyre. Slower burning stuff increases risk of dramas a la your sink suggestion. Next time I have to do this I will record the event on camera.
AnswerID: 128144

Follow Up By: Casnat - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 22:54

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 22:54
Hi mfewster (clearly can't be your real name....appologies if it is),

I had seen a few videos of what you put forward some time ago (some downright funny, some impressive). Clearly it works if done right but clearly it is also something to be approached with some caution (unless of course you are wearing shorts with flames printed on them!)

Your method is one I will put in my memory banks for that time when nothing else works but I think I will lean to more traditional means if they work. The responses have shown that there may be value in having a coil of hose with connectors on each end just in case so for the few dollars that will mean it is probably not a bad thing to carry.

See you in the bush
Trevor
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 23:14

Saturday, Sep 03, 2005 at 23:14
Icelanders use the propane to bead their tires all the time.

have seen mates do it down here in melbourne, it works well..
bleep ed if Id try it though
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FollowupID: 382803

Reply By: Witchdoctor - Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 16:14

Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 16:14
Why are you guys hell bent on trying to kill your selves, over inlating your spare tyres as back up or using lighter fluid to reseat a bead is beyond me. These practices may work, but when it does not i would not like to be any where it all.
Your tyres are not ment to to be overinflate for long periods and then exposed to extreme conditions, good luck. at the least get a compressor.
As for using lighter fluid u may aswell play chicken with a freight train. The use of a compressor combined with a strap workes very well if not time consuming but safe.
There is always options like liquide CO2.

Dave
AnswerID: 128239

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 18:01

Sunday, Sep 04, 2005 at 18:01
Hi Dave,

65psi is the max pressure of most 8-ply LT 4wd tyres
80psi is the max pressure of most 10-ply LT 4wd Tyres.

I don't overinflate mine.

I'm with you about the lighter fluid - wouldn't do it for quids.

Cheers
phil
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