Cape York Alcohol Restrictions

Submitted: Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 13:46
ThreadID: 26767 Views:11208 Replies:14 FollowUps:24
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Members from our club have recently returned from a 6 week trip to Cape York. While a great adventure was had by all, it was partly soured by these new alcohol restrictions that are being enforced on the entire peninsula, especially in the NPA, north of the Jardine River.
It is unfortunate that the tourists to the area are being hit with fines for what appears to be essentially a local alcohol management problem. Firstly, the areas that most of these restrictions apply are very remote and any traveller must be completely self sufficent. This includes taking in your own alcohol. I must say that I find that a refreshing ale after a days driving or fishing in this magnificant country a most satisfying way to end a day. Leaving aside the issue of the strength of beer, for a group to travel to a remote beach such as Vrilya Point and stay for a week and only be permitted to carry one carton of beer (mid or light strength only) per vehicle, seems ridiculous!
On the road we heard (albeit anecdotal) stories of tourists being fined somewhere in the order of $2000 for carrying heavy beer in some restricted areas. While there are plenty of notices around and it is advertised anther problem crops up. Some of these areas are adjacent. The situation can occur where you can pass through different lands that have (in order) max. 12 cans of light beer, then a zero alcohol area, followed by a max. 24 cans of mid strength beer.
There were further stories of boats that would travel to Thursday Island to purchase alcohol for the indigenous community, who would meet the boat on the return trip and at low tide drink below the high water mark without fear of being fined as the restriction begins above the high water mark!!!
Talking to local tourist operators in the NPA, it became apparent that there was a marked downturn in the number of people visiting the cape this season. Could this be because of the alcohol restrictions? Some of the locals say that it is a contributing factor along with some unseasonal rain!!
At the Quarantine Point north of Coen a package is handed out that contains a survey on your time in the Cape. I urge any person going to the Cape to seriously consider completing the survey and if the QP is not open on your return trip (as it was when we headed south) please send it to AQIS. Our club is also in the pocess of drafting a letter to the Queensland and Federal Governements to voice our concerns.
We acknowledge that there is an alcohol problem amoung our indigenous population , however penalising tourists to the area may be more detrimental from a financial point of view. Not tourists = no dollars. Or maybe it's subsidised?........
Cape York is a truly beautiful place. For how much longer is anyones guess......
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Reply By: Wizard1 - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 14:38

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 14:38
There will probably be bans on vehicles carrying too much extra petrol as it could be used by the locals for sniffing.

These people engage in these excesses because "we (the whites)" saw them as an easy user of alcohol, etc and allowed a few of those those black marketters to make large profits for years.

But I fail to see what difference a few 4wders/travellers would have on thier alcohol problem. I'm sure I wouldn't handover my hard earned beers to the locals.

Like all regulations there are usually a few overzealous nazis that interpret the rules to suit them. Tourists are an easy target. I'm sure they would be reluctant to issue a fine to the real crims in this situation, such as the boaties.

Then again I could have some sympathy if there were no notices, etc., but there are... I lived in WA for a while and when I was told what would happen if I took a cray without a permit I didn't do it. Maybe awareness is the solution, or just carry light beer.

Wizard
Gold Coast
AnswerID: 131834

Reply By: andoland - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 14:53

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 14:53
Up the Creek 4x4,

I enjoy a cold beer at the end of a days travel as much as the next bloke but I'd like to post an alternative view to your post. Alcohol is a major problem in the indigenous communities on Cape York and other areas. I lived on Cape York for 5 1/2 years and witnessed it first hand. I have not been back since the alcohol restrictions were put in place but can only believe that they are a good thing. Over the last year or so I have read a few newspaper reports on the positive impact that these restrictions have had with the big ones being less violence (mainly against women), families buying more necessities such as decent food for children and families actually being able to save money. These all sound like positive outcomes. Perhaps someone who has spent some time in and around these communities can confirm or contradict what I have read.

So, alcohol is banned or restricted in these communities for a good reason (or at least with good intent). I can't see how it is fair to make the residents of the indigenous communities comply with the alcohol restrictions but not visitors - why are we special and why should the rules in those areas only apply to some and not to others. If you visit another state or country you don't get exemption from their rules because you are only visiting (just ask Shapelle Corby, the Bali 9, etc). My view is that if you want to go into one of these areas you do so knowing that there are restrictions on what you can do.

Finally, I personally don't see how less tourists visiting the Cape can cause it to be less beautiful - in fact I'd suggest exactly the opposite. I'm sure anyone went to Fraser Island 20 years ago and has been back in the last 5 years would agree - the exponential increase in tourists has only made the place less attractive. You'll have trouble convincing me that much of the tourist dollar truly goes to supporting the local indigenous communities, although no doubt some of it does. More tourists simply makes the place less appealing to visit - I don't go to places like the Cape to see thousands of vehicles, rubbish left around, structured campsites with showers toilets and wall to wall tents. I go there to see the natural beauty and experience the solitude and would prefer as few others there as possible. I think the only people who win are the tourist operators who are making the biggest money.

Okay, I'll hop off my soapbox now, but will ask people to think about why they should be allowed to consume or possess alcohol in a place where others are not and where it causes such massive social disruption.

Chris
AnswerID: 131838

Follow Up By: ShnogDog - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 21:31

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 21:31
andoland,

I have to agree with you that the restrictions are probably a good thing. I havent been up to the Cape yet. Hopefully one day. However, I was born and raised in the Highlands of Papua New Guinea, where I have seen the very same problems caused by alcohol abuse. There were periods when alcohol bans were put in place in the Highlands and it did make a difference.

I'm sure if anyone did talk to a lot of the people who actually live in these communities, they would also agree that things are better for it (the restrictions). And not to just ask the younger or middle aged men, but to ask the women and children, and the elders. Then I'm sure they'll get more than one side of the coin.

If things were just left as they were and no-one had the balls to intervene, it would just get worse and probably to the point that many would avoid going there full stop.
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FollowupID: 386239

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 15:15

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 15:15
Maybe the restrictions are a good thing, who knows? But why should we be resticted from carrying alchohol for our own consumption? Are they suggesting that it will be stolen by whoever they are protecting, or that we may be carrying it for resale?
Why not increase the penalties for providing liquor to those that they are trying to protect?
I might add that I am practically a non drinker (license protection) & the rules would not affect me in the slightest.
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FollowupID: 386328

Follow Up By: ShnogDog - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:22

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:22
I'd say theres a fair chance they are trying to stop people from being able to re-sale, and use the excure it was for their own personal use....
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Reply By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:08

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:08
Up the creek read the reply above and have a good think about it.

For 2 weeks in your lives you cant live with full strength beer.
May be there is a bigger problem than you think.

There are many places were you cant take booze have a think about it.

Or maybe it's subsidised?........ what does this mean.

We acknowledge that there is an alcohol problem amoung our indigenous population . So we let the tourists and white drink anything they want sounds good dosnt it.

Cape York is a truly beautiful place. For how much longer is anyones guess......
What has the change in law got to do with that line.

marked downturn in the number of people visiting the cape this season. Could this be because of the alcohol restrictions? Some of the locals say that it is a contributing factor along with some unseasonal rain!!
The second half is true it was wet this season. Last year was one of the busiest on record and the first one with the new laws.

Leaving aside the issue of the strength of beer, for a group to travel to a remote beach such as Vrilya Point and stay for a week and only be permitted to carry one carton of beer (mid or light strength only) per vehicle, seems ridiculous!
If you were to come from the south you could take 8 cartons of booze with you.

Just remember dont listen to tales of what someone else may have heard from a mates neigboiur down the road from the guy next door.
He may not have heard all of the story.

All the best
Eric

Ps I am going to catch the train with a six pack for the trip.
Wait thats againsts the law I will see if I change it.

AnswerID: 131854

Follow Up By: Austravel - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 13:23

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 13:23
Eric,
True it maybe againts the law to drink on the train but certainly not to carry it. That was the drama with my travels, fine I will not drink in certain areas but I can't even travel through a lot of places with booze in the car.

Why would coming south to Vrilya Point be any different when I was up there last the locals told me that Vrilya had been handed back so really the rules would be the same I thought.
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FollowupID: 386315

Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 20:15

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 20:15
From the south the restrictions apply from the jardine river on wards to the north.
May I also add in other communitys in the cape and all over Australia.

All the best
Eric
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FollowupID: 386355

Follow Up By: Austravel - Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 08:48

Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 08:48
Thanks, was told something very different by the operators at the roadhouse/servo on the Jardine. Guess it pays to check.
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FollowupID: 386404

Follow Up By: Tony F - Friday, Sep 30, 2005 at 20:34

Friday, Sep 30, 2005 at 20:34
G'day
Have to agree with eric, to visit Cape York and be upset with the alcohol regs is a bit like going to nirvana and having to do drugs. Last year was also our busiest season to date aswell, and with some good planning you would not have a problem. Unfortunatley there are to many stories of a mate of a mate had this and that happen. I'm sure that eric and other tag operators would like to see less independent groups go up and leave it to people who are passionate about the Cape to take appreciative people with them. The Cape itself is the best thing anyone can expirience, but don't get me wrong a beer after a hard day should be a given, but as they say if your in someone else's backyard you play by their rules.
Happy Camping
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FollowupID: 386888

Reply By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:13

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:13
I have just read the story again.

Up the creek you are having a lend of us arnt you.

All the best
Eric
AnswerID: 131855

Reply By: DukeAtty - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:24

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:24
Fair call Eric.... But it is nice to take holidays once a year and be able to get drunk each night...
Its the only time each year i get to remove the chain from my neck because the missus is not around and then because the abo's cant control themselves we have to suffer.. and you guys are kidding yourselves if you think it is working.....
I see the new gun laws has stopped crime...Its a joke,,, but we all believe in different things....
So like i said... Fair call....
AnswerID: 131858

Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:34

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:34
In america they have no gun laws that works well dosnt it.

All the best
Eric
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FollowupID: 386196

Follow Up By: DukeAtty - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:37

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:37
I agree,, and we are 20years behind them..
I noticed also that here in Adelaide (i dont know about the rest of the country) we are letting in those abo's from Africa by the droves, so in 20years we will be like USA...
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Follow Up By: ShnogDog - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 21:41

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 21:41
Duke, is it their skin colour that bothers you?
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FollowupID: 386241

Follow Up By: DukeAtty - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 23:25

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 23:25
No it isnt.... I am not a racist at all...
I just say it as i see it....
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and i have given mine...
I call a spade a spade and then someone asks me if their skin colour bothers me?????????
No what bothers me is, seeing melb bitter and southwark cans littered all along the Savannah Way, millions of dollars of gifts from mines and govts wee'd on, poo'd on and generally smashed and abused, wanting everything and getting it and giving nothing but grief in return,,,, what is there to like about someone i have described......
I dont like the ragheads which blew up the world trade centres, i dont like the klu klux klan (and apparently ShnogDog thinks i should like them)...
Whats wrong with not liking something and not being scared to state it out loud,, i am sure plenty of people are thinking what i said..
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FollowupID: 386254

Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 11:50

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 11:50
So, if you're not racist DukeAtty what is it that offends you about "those abo's from Africa" who we are letting in by the droves?
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FollowupID: 386304

Follow Up By: DukeAtty - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 13:58

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 13:58
Mr Wombat.... Ask the people in the Superdrome what they thought of the greeting party at the door...
Why do you think all the young kids are listening to pointless rap songs or wearing their undies higher than their jeans or wearing their back pockets at knee height...
You wait and see how they change this country.... Breed like rabbitts and start bonking each other from 11years old... How long do you think it will take to change Australia into the USA...

I like Viets, Japs, Chinese, most walks of life,,,,
Maybe i am semi-racist... So What...
Abo,s are a waste of space and the overseas ones are best left overseas...Why import different versions>>?????
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FollowupID: 386319

Follow Up By: Wombat - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 14:21

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 14:21
Hmmmmm! A semi-racist, probably similar to being half pregnant.
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FollowupID: 386324

Follow Up By: DukeAtty - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 16:30

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 16:30
oh well,,, we have vented our opinions and thats good.
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FollowupID: 386331

Follow Up By: ShnogDog - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:38

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:38
Duke.. all the kids who are listening to Rap are doing so because of the marketing by mostly white owned record companies. And as far as another race invading this country and rapidly overpopulating it... I think that has been happening over the last 200 years mate. We're all entitled to our opinions. Doesnt mean we have to agree. We could sit here all day and argue about the effect one ethnic group has had, compared to another.

you said.." I am not a racist at all..." but then..."Abo,s are a waste of space and the overseas ones are best left overseas...Why import different versions>>?????"

also you say... i dont like the klu klux klan (and apparently ShnogDog thinks i should like them)... you're now a mind reader as well ?

I'll say no more about you DukeAtty... youre doing a fine job painting that picture all on your own.
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FollowupID: 386370

Reply By: Footloose - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:45

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:45
The Cape is a very special place for all Australians, but it's the backyard of the locals. With or without tourism.
AFIK the alcohol bans are only one part of some serious attempts by some of the locals to improve their lot.

Yes if I were a drinker it would get up my nose also, that's pretty normal I guess.
But a bit of thought would get me through a few lights.

Like many here, I've seen the effects of alcohol and petrol sniffing in communities at close hand. It's frightening, and any moves to restrict such activities should be applauded.
Yes there are anomolies in the enforcement. They need to be addressed.

By all means travel into remote areas and enjoy it. But please abide by the wishes of the locals, be it a community or homestead or whatever. Your personal behaviour may be the deciding factor on whether future generations will be able to traverse and appreciate these areas.

Be a 4wd traveller , not a 4wd terrorist.
AnswerID: 131860

Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:54

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 16:54
Well said.

All the best
Eric
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FollowupID: 386201

Reply By: Member - TonyG (Qld) - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 17:56

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 17:56
Hi Up the Creek 4x4,

Even though I am a non drinker myself, I would only think it a positive move to restrict alcohol in these areas if it helps the local community.

I just got back from a few days at Moreton island, and had the misfortune of having a bunch of drunken gala's who were also staying at the same campsite as us.

Luckily for us, they were "out of it" by 6pm, so we had a peaceful nights.

Not something I want to expose my kids to.

I know these people were in the minority, but only citing an example of how stupid people can be by not drinking responsibly.

So if it means we have to have alcohol restrictions to support the local coomunity, and as a result, we have to have a little bit of inconvenience, then so be it. At least we are still allowed to access thes places.

AnswerID: 131865

Reply By: Gerhardp1 - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 18:02

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 18:02
What are the rules on taking your favourite bottles of Red?
(or white for that matter)
AnswerID: 131867

Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 18:06

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 18:06
No worrys allowed 2 lites of wine per 4x4at any time.
But you can buy another 2 ever day as long as you dont have more than 2 litres.

all the best
eric
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FollowupID: 386206

Reply By: Member - Pezza (QLD) - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 19:48

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 19:48
Up the creek,

You have got to be kidding!
I'm certainly no tea totaler, I enjoy a beer like most, but if you can't go for a week with 1 ctn or less of full strength then IMO you have a serious problem, and maybe you should spend some time in one of the aboriginal communities to dry out!

The more people like you don't go north of Cooktown, the longer the natural beauty of The Cape will last before it's destroyed by inconsidorate drunken, pi$$pots that leave behind mountains of beer cans.

Someone like you complaining about the aboriginal alcohol problem, talk about the pot calling the kettle black! (Pun not intended)

Pezza
AnswerID: 131884

Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 20:41

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 20:41
Well said

All the best
Eric
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FollowupID: 386228

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 15:21

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 15:21
Where did you get the idea that Up the Creek is a "drunken pi$$pot that leaves behind mountains of beer cans"? Maybe people like you that want to typecast people are more of a problem.
BTW, I think the word you were looking for was 'teetotaller'!
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FollowupID: 386329

Reply By: Grungle - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 19:49

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 19:49
I lived in an Aboriginal community in Arnhem Land for 9 years. Have seen grog restriction enforced but then other drug use became prolific (sniffing petrol, areosols etc). Problem is the Aborigines don't or are not alowed to enforce any sort of punishment if someone IN the community breaks a drug/grog ban. The aborigines have the grog taken away (the punishment) but they do not fine the restriction breakers (money doesn't really matter to them). If they were allowed to enforce a tribal punishment then you would have less problems. The travellers suffer the most as they are the ones that are punished with large fines - not the aborigines.

We just got back from a Gulf trip which included Doomagee (near Bourketown). The township was free of grog cans but 2km from town where the restriction sign is posted, there was a sea of VB cans. So what exactly has the restriction in the township acheived? You will also see EXACTLY the same thing in Yirrakala in Nhulunbuy as well as a lot of other communities throughout Australia

I think that that restrictions are good in communities but it needs to be backed up with a local punishment for the members who reside in that community. For people travelling through, they should not be limited to 6 cans or 12 cans but maybe 2-3 cartons and not have any open/empty cans whilst driving through a community that has restrictions. Also limit the places that sell grog and also the amount you can purchase. Back this up with photo ID as they do in places in the NT.

The restriction law I see as a knee jerk reaction to a serious problem. It needs more investigation and planning so that something can be produced that will work long term.

Regards
David
AnswerID: 131885

Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 20:46

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 20:46
I dont know If your been to the cape but It has changed in my opinion for the better in only a couple of years.
The whole NPA looks healthier.

All the best
Eric
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FollowupID: 386231

Reply By: ShnogDog - Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 21:50

Monday, Sep 26, 2005 at 21:50
I havent done the Cape trip yet, but I'd imagine that you need to put in a few good days driving to get up there, and a few more to get back. I think It's a worry to see there are few people who think nothing of setting up camp. Getting on the grog till they fall over, then getting behind the wheel the next day, and doing it all over again. Interesting to see how these posts can reveal quite a lot about some people.
AnswerID: 131915

Reply By: OLDMAGPIE - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 00:38

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 00:38
prohibition never worked before & it wont in the future.
AnswerID: 131929

Follow Up By: Wizard1 - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 11:42

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 11:42
So what are you suggesting, that a few good old boys set up a bootleg home brew outfit in Cape York?
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FollowupID: 386302

Follow Up By: OLDMAGPIE - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 18:04

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 18:04
spot on wizard1 with a stall on a side track no more transporting slabs & while your at it open a gunstore for the ammo yahoo the good old days!
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FollowupID: 386341

Reply By: Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 07:47

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 07:47
Interesting isn't it, some people go ape over dumb reporters slagging 4wd owners and then we get dumb 4wd owners moaning about local by-laws of how to act when visiting someone else's back yard. If you are complaining that you are not able to get plastered anywhere anytime then it's you that has a BIG problem.
AnswerID: 131941

Follow Up By: ShnogDog - Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:40

Tuesday, Sep 27, 2005 at 21:40
You're right on the money Kiwi
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FollowupID: 386371

Reply By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 16:48

Wednesday, Sep 28, 2005 at 16:48
Up the creek you are the only one that hasnt replyed

All the best
Eric
AnswerID: 132177

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