Some very condescending views.

I can go 2 weeks without a beer when on site - but on my week off its a differnt matter. As it is usually me the tojo the trees and the campfire I dont get too many complaints, didnt get any complaints last weekend either - but then maybe Rods just polite, now wheres my beer last few or few more before I go back to work 2 morrow

Here here....................or is it there there?? Who knows.....I am off to get a beer :))

People just like to have a say Jimbo, right or wrong, human nature and maybe some self righteousness takes over. Let them have their say mate and we can kick back around the fire have a sip of whatever we please.

People who are not happy within themselves find it easy to judge others. We who are happy enjoy life to its fullest....

I contributed to that thread so I'll have a go (oh oh). Please bear in mind that these are general comments. I'm not having a go at anyone.

Let me say first that I don't drink. It's a medical thing.
But I don't object to those who do. In moderation (that's the word your missus probably uses when you get frisky 5 nights a week). By midnight you'll have forgotten that my glass is full of coke...so will I probably :)
I used to take a drink. Scotch to be precise. But never, ever, when I had to drive the next day. I needed all my concentration on the track (not much of a driver did I hear you say ?)

I never became loud in camp (well maybe my snoring did but that hasn't changed), nor did I ever have complaints about my behaviour after 2 or 3 glasses.

So I dont care if you drink legally. Thats your business.

But if I meet you on the wrong side of the track around a blind corner, if I have to stop and attend your accident, if I cant sleep because you're yelling and carrying on at 2am at the campsite, then that's MY business.

And believe me, my comments will be more than reprehensible.

With freedom comes responsibility.

Footy

Hear, hear Jimbo ..... well said!

I totally agree with the above comments. There is a time and place for everthing. Alcohol in moderation, without upsetting other campers ,is called consideration for your fellow travellors. Becoming loud, aggressive and abusive in front of woman and children in a campsite, and keeping everyone up at 2.00am, calls for some serious formof restrainment. By the time the individual is restrained, the tyres on his 4x4 deflated and on his camper van or caravan, he might think twice before behaving like a pratt next time round. If you want to behave like a yobbo, then go and do it somewhere, where there are no decent law abiding folks who are trying to have decent holiday.

I think you misunderstood Jimbo. The point of the comment (can't remember who it was) was that if you can't go without beer what right do you have to comment on the grog problem in aboriginal communities? Maybe you have a problem too then?

I want to drive through school zones at 80k per hour because i am a responsible driver and a good driver.
I want to smoke in public places like on a bus and on trains because I am responsible and always put my butts in the bin.
I want to lite my wood fire BBQ on total fire ban days because I am responsible and always put it out .
I want to drink and drive with no limit on what I drink before I drive because I am responsible.
I want to do the above but I cant but I make adjustments to my life because it benifits my fellow man and woman and kids.

All the best
Eric

PS I dont smoke and havent for about 10 years now

Davo says - "Address the problem" Well, thats EXACTLY what the alcohol ban is designed to do. Wake up sunshine and think for a change about why it was put in place and not just about your own desires (or lusts) :-)) When in someone elses back yard you respect their rules and customs.

Agreed Jimbo. It's no-one's place to tell others how to drink. If they're not old enough to act responsibly they will be one day.

I'm lucky. If I get seriously on the turps I fall asleep before I get rowdy.....

Jimbo, your words are sage. What is too much? For me thats a glass and a half of red on the odd occasion that I imbibe. For others it may be 2 dozen a day.

If we look after the outcome, i.e. clean up our empties, (I remember having this job when we were breastfeeding! Its fun), dont become a PITA awe obnoxious twit and who cares how much or how often others partake?

We all too fast impose our own paradigm on others, including our fears and our prejudices, often in the name of caring but rarely in the form of empathy.

The human race is one fought on many principles.

jimbo your spot on but i think eric cpe york connections would like all 4x4 banned from going anywhere up there except through his little set up?

The other thing that I have wondered about is what do you do when you get to places like Finke, that has sign saying 'no alcohol past this point'?

Do you just unload it from your vehicle & leave it against the sign post, for the locals to come & drink?

Or, do you sit & drink it all & drive on very drunk?

Or, do you simply turn around & go back to where you came from?

Hmmm ........

This site is no different than most others Jimbo, there are a number of judjmental bigots who visit. If you don't think or do as I do then you are wrong, no different to Harold Scrubby's thoughts on 4b's.

Good morning Jimbo.

Your post and and those of the respondents make for interesting reading.

I have one question for you - Would you have been less aggrieved if the comment which you found offensive had been "If you can't go two weeks without a full strength beer because law dictates this, you have a problem"?

The problem with bureaucrats is that they don't follow logic.

A bloke wants to get from A to C. Region A says you can only have a dozen mid strength beers whilst Region C says you can have a dozen full strength.
Now to get from A to C you have to travel through Region B and the local tribe's council here says you are not allowed any alcohol at all.

Also, you are not allowed in if you drive a petrol fuelled vehicle because the natives sniff petrol when they can't get booze to annihilate themselves with.

Now I have a further problem because I prefer red wine when sitting around a camp fire, or an occasional cider, whilst my wife may like a "cruiser".

So, we carry a variety of booze to pleasure ourselves with and bugger anybody elses "rules". That is of couse if they know I am "carrying".

What are they going to do, search every vehicle that trespasses on "their" land.
Well I was born in Australia so it is MY land as well and I pay my hard earned taxes to claim it as "ours" if not "mine"

So I guess I am just being politically incorrect.
Well..........Stuff Them!

I reckon that whilst there have been some very sensible responses here a major factor in the aboriginal/grog factor is overlooked. SELF RESPECT.
A very good and close friend of mine has worked as a remote area nurse for many years in outback towns and aboriginal community locations.
In towns where employment is both available and encouraged, drinking to excess seems not to be an insurmountable problem. But where the community is isolated and exists solely on funding and royalties, money has the same value as a hand full of marbles so 100 bucks for a slab is of no consequense, theres another 100 on its way. And what else do you do with the day when there is no effort in collecting it.
She has suggested these bans are a "lip service" way of authorities showing recognition of a problem without addressing the root cause.
One of the last places she worked at is in the E Kimberley where access is by sea or air only. Supposedly dry and no tourism, she ended up leaving in dispair at the futility of constantly repairing bodies damaged from alcohol induced violence. Against that backdrop we are very familiar with a small town in W.Qld. with a substantial part of the population being aboriginal. With little or no unemployment, self respect at healthy levels I have yet to see any evidence of alcohol problems in that community.
And I certainly aint no wowser!!
the kesh

I think the communitys put the ban on themselves.

As I said further up there are many rules in life we may not like them but we make adjustments to help others.

All the best
Eric

Hiya Jimbo

geez you can get a response can't you...hahahah....I think some people have taken it all a bit too personal, you did state "Let's leave aside whether grog should, or should not, be allowed to be taken into various parts of Australia. That's a seperate, and complex, issue".

Soo, drinking while at camp - as you know I'm not afraid of indulging in a drink or 3 while on camp, and I think I'm responsible, and those I camp with I would argue are responsible too, we are not offensive, aggressive or cause disturbances to others that may be around . Sharing a drink and a meal at camp with friends is something I really enjoy, and I get mad as hell by people who pass judgement on others after only spending a short amount of time in their company concluding that they may have a problem becasue they enjoy a few drinks.

I guess I feel strongly about that as I have a personal view as I spent a few years of my life with a person who had an alcohol addiction, and I learnt very quickly that the drink was not the cause of the problem but was his attempt to deal with it.

cheers

Lyn

There are many communitys In Oz and the world you cant drink or are resticted.

All the best
Eric

A lot of very interesting responses.

I PUT UP THE ORIGINAL POST. Primarily to see what type of response I would get.

However not too many got it.

I was simply trying to demonstrate the self righteous views of so many. The "I'm a good person, you're the devil" attitude of too many people here. I haven't been disappointed. About what I expected really.

Understand this, the whole thing had nothing to do with alcohol, indigenous communities, laws, or anything like it.

It was all about attitude to your fellow human being and the thought that you may be entitled to judge another.

Cheers,

Jim.

Ok, suppose I'd better put my 2 bob,s worth in, seeing as the "comments" people are refering to were my own.
Firstly, Jimbo, mate, if you dissagree with my opinion you could have posted your view directly under mine, I have no problem with people dissagreeing with me, it doesn't mean you are an instant enemy, there was no need to start a new thread on it. I have not agreed with some of your opinions either (especially the political ones, lol) but have, over time, come to agree with a lot more than dissagree, and found that we share a lot of the same views on most things,and have formed the opinion that you are a good decent bloke overall.
Though, saying this, you have misquoted me in your above post,
" If you can't go two weeks without a full strength beer,you have a problem" should read
"if you can't go for a week with 1 ctn or less of full strenghth then in IMO you have a serious problem"
The comments have 2 completely seperate meanings, mine should also be taken in the context of 'Up the creek's' post, I'm not telling anyone how much they can or can't drink, if someone is in an area where there are no restrictions I couldn't care less if they drink the whole ctn in one night,as long as they don't annoy any neighbours in the process.
'Up the creek' wrote a rather lengthy post on how upset they were at being restricted to only one ctn per vehicle, now whether we like the laws up there or not is irrelevant, they are the laws. Now, a ctn holds up to 30 cans, which equates to 2 cans per night for 2 weeks, or 4 cans per night for a week, now IMO if that is not enough for a person for a couple of weeks whilst in a restricted area then I stick with what I said in that they have a problem.
Now keeping in mind these people felt so strongly at being restricted to only 2-4 cans per day that they were even going to the extent of writing a letter of complaint to a government department about it.
Now, most of us have come across area's of our beautiful country, especially in northern QLD and central Australia, where we have encountered piles of dumped rubbish consisting mainly, if not wholley (spelling?), of beer cans. I have never met anyone personaly that does this sort of thing, but the picture I get of this type of grub is one of a person who wants to drink 4 or more cans a night for 2 weeks straight, and complains about anything less, just so he "can have a good time" with no regard to anyone elses problems or issues, especialy those of the aboriginal comunities and alcohol.
Now, as for the quote
"from the top of my head someone was called a drunken yobbo who left mountains of beer cans just because they enjoy a few drinks at the end of the day"
I suggest you re-read my post, because if that is how you interpreted my quote, then you would make a good ACA reporter.
To finish off, most of us enjoy a few drinks at the end of a days travel, no-one, including I has any problem with that. As far as I'm concerned 'Up the creek' and his mates who complain loudly that 2-4 cans isn't enough whislt in a restricted area, don't fall into this catagory.
I hope this has cleared up some misinterpretations of my original post.

Avagoodn
Pezza

Jimbo,

I consider Pezza's statement is an opinion not a judgement. To me a judgement is specifically about someone's character. Most people would have an opinion as to what alcohol consumption might be considered problematic.

just a comment
Spade

gday jimbo.
hope you can make it this weekend.
looking foward to a few drinks and conversation around the fire.
followed bye a good sleep and great driving.
then followed bye another quiet night with a few more drinks and chat.
geez i love this weather when we can get away and indulge in the things i like.
friends/conversation/4wd/camping/drinks/time with family and so on.
cheers

Jimbo
Paul Kelly once wrote
If drink is a problem, then drink a little bit less

Richard

Many moons ago when part of what was termed the green machine the "rules" were 2 cans per man per day , if your mate did not want his you bartered for his "ration" ,was easy to get up to 6/10 cans if wanted ,so according to some I and many others have /had a problem ,,,to an alcoholic 1 drink is to many and 100 not enough but NO one has the right morally or legaly to judge how much I or any one over the age of 18 can drink in a 1 wk or 2wk period ,....its friday at 8.30 am and I have just finished a 54 hr work stretch since monday pm ,, time for a beer or 10.

Jim,

Read your original post and then all the responses.

Obviously a lot of different opinions out and about.

In your last paragraph "It's all about behaviour. A decent human being has the right to behave decently. No-one can tell them how they conduct themselves in their pursuit of such behaviour" lies what I think is a major part of the dilemma.

The decent human being you refer to is what I think a lot of people all see as a level headed, decent sort of person but when governments set laws and rules they have to factor in the minority element which most reasonable people would class as a ratbag.

Classic tale I remember setting up the ambulance station on an aboriginal mission in Central Queensland about ten years ago. Alcohol and glue and petrol sniffing were killing heaps of local kids. At one stage I attended about ten deaths in one month. Anyway a lot of rules were put in place on the mission and it became a lot harder to get these things and on the surface it appeared to be starting to work. Most people on the mission acted like reasonable people and yet the kids were still getting access to petrol mainly. When the cops finally nailed it down visitors to the mission were siphoning off juice out of their cars and selling to the local kids.

Mate the point I make is that the law at times can be bloody stupid and I think most of us feel that way but at times it has to be made in such a way as to factor in the lowest common denominator. Now on that particular mission you can not go in there and do as you please especially in the way you handle alcohol and petrol, and if you don't comply with that then the law will be wanting to talk to you, and at the very least you will be shown the door.

I think a lot of people have different interpretations of what being a decent human being is all about. You go to a serious assault where a couple of young guys have assaulted another to steal his shoes and when you speak to them and say do you guys think that is Ok to do that a lot of them think it is and that is alarming in that they see their behaviour as OK when most would say that's not on. It's more common than you would think.

It's a difficult one to get your head around and I certainly don't have all of the answers but as far as the cape goes I think the intent of the rules is to try and help local communities and I think all of us have to play our part and comply with that.

Have a good one.