why dont they just sink them

Good to see you're in touch with your warm and fuzzy side Steve :))))

You get my vote for PM!

what electrate you in!

sorry guys couldnt get used to the $$$$$$$$ the pollies earn and i only tell small whoppers ??????????????
steve

be bugered..any one can get used to earning what they do (super included) and as for small whoppers...well when are you going to nominate?

Because their army even thou it is lot chiter than Australia’s it is a chite load bigger, why do you think the Australian government is always the first to give money and aid and are always making nice.

To keep peace in the region and keep their army the hell out of Australia, That and Knowing that Australia would be too much of a Logistical Nightmare to even consider invading keeps us Safe.

I didn't think I'd need a TIC at the end of that post but it seems I better make it clear.

You don’t I was just Saying why we do not take a more aggressive approach towards these Illegal Fishermen.

I agree sink the fleet, That should be the only image they get of Australia, Burst of canon fire there ship sinking, Navy picking them up and then dropping them back in Indonesia end of story.

We don't take a more aggressive approach because that would be a major over-reaction. I agree that they shouldn't fish in our waters with impunity but lets keep perspective on it. They are only fishing, nothing more.

Do we know that is all they are doing??

Drug Drops, carting god knows who into the country maybe testing security for other’s. Not saying that is what’s happening but can you rule it out.

Yes we know that's all they are doing. Drug runners et. al. don't waste their time with barely floating worm ridden buckets just capable of 10 knots with a tail wind.

G Whizz, that isnt completely true, I work up in that area alot, was only a couple of weeks back that a vessel i know well was boarded by some Indo's less than a kilometer of the WA coast and had to be forcibly removed.
Its all very well to say it is only fish, but mate, this is somebodies livlihood. people invest their working lives fishing up there only to have people come in and steal it from under your nose. Armed guards are used for money etc, why not fish?
Only a few weeks ago that the Indo navy machinegunned a chinese fishing boat that wouldnt answer the radio and a crewman was killed. This is what they expect to happen, as it is the norm in their country.

Forgot to add alsao, G Whizz, if you were going to smuggle stuff in from overseas, what do you reckon would be more conspicuous, a wooden sampan among hundreds of others or a 50 knot miami vice speedboat in an area where there is nothing?
I think you are being a bit naive maybe?

To paraphrase Burt Reynolds "Looks like we're out-numbered - they better go and get some more men."

I would humbly suggest that you're using the term "gentle"men very loosely, Gramps.

ROFLMAO ... good one Wombat. I can't take any credit for a disguised pun.

9i agree wombat i had to look over my shoulder to see who gramps was talking too
steve

Spot on Steve21. Couldn't agree more. Looking after our own should be first priority!

The lack of funding in our hospitals is a disgrace!

Mike
poverty seems to be associated with gross over-population. The population of Indonesia is about 250,000,000. A veritable human plague. If it were rabbits you'd introduce calicivirus. Some people, muslims and catholics included, seem to be hell bent on turning the earth into a feedlot for impoverished humans. This means cultivating every hectare of land, damming every river for irrigation, and filtering the oceans for every gram of protein (and sharkfin).
We remain relativley rich because our land supports 20,000,000 people (still too many for our fragile ecosystem). If we let the hoards over-run us there would soon be a billion, but we would at least redressed the wealth disparity.
How do we prevent the human plague from destroying the earth? Our aid to overpopulated regions of the world should bve contingent on ZPG. ie give them Implanon not guns. In the meantime, stray fishing boats should be aggressively rejected.

>poverty seems to be associated with gross over-population

United Kingdom = 250 people per sq. km.

Indonesia - 127 people per sq. km.

Mike Harding

Birth rate in UK 11.34 per 1000 (and probably not evenly distributed ie higher amongst the poor)
Birth rate in Indonesia 21.87 per 1000 (was over 33 in the 80s)

>Birth rate in UK 11.34 per 1000
>Birth rate in Indonesia 21.87 per 1000

Infant mortality rate:
Indonesia 35.6 deaths/1,000 live births
United Kingdom 5.16 deaths/1,000 live births

In Mali it's 117 deaths/1,000 live births! Against a birth rate of 44/1000!!

And at that rate of population growth it will take Indonesia well over 100 years before it equals the UKs population density.

If he saved every penny and didn't eat; a man in Mali would be able to afford a Land Cruiser after just 46 years of saving. It would take a man in the UK 1.4 years to buy that same vehicle.

The West lives off the back of the Third World and has largely obtained it's wealth by exploiting them over the past few centuries and continues to do so today. They are poor so that we may be rich - don't expect them to be grateful for that.

Mike Harding

mike_harding@fastmail.fm

Thanks Mike for your rational response. I wonder how many of us would act differently than these fishermen if we were in their shoes.

Well said mike

ditto Mike - good to see there's at least one human being on this site and I'm surprised that the exploroz team have allowed the other xenophobic tripe to be published...a post like this just gives anti-4WD interests more ammunition.

All very well for someone cruising around in a $50K 4WD to get all high and mighty about how poor people should conduct themselves. And the argument that excessive numbers of third world people are causing the demise of the world/environment is a joke. One yank or Aussie is worth 10-100 of these people in terms of resource use.

I'm not xenophobic - it's just that I don't like foreigners.

So guys, how are you going to assuage your guilt? Turn Australia into yet another overpopulated disaster?
I am sorry if having an opinion different to yours makes me 'inhuman', 'irrational' or 'xenophobic'.
The future for Indonesia (whose population density on its main islands is 500 per sq km) is not to spill over into Australia, but to restrict its population growth even further, like China has been able to do. You might then see a drop in the devastating infant mortality rates.
In fifty years when your offspring are lining up for there soilant green biscuits you may wish you had been less opposed to population control.

overpopulation of any country is not a good thing. However, before you judge someone, maybe you should walk in their shoes for a day or two. These blokes are trying to make a living for their families...they don't have the option of a $100-200/day job doing not much. I'm not saying that we should allow open slather on fisheries - this sort of thing needs to be controlled. However, to start suggesting that the fishermen should be treated with 'extreme prejudice' is extremely narrow-minded and small-hearted...

Bob

Your basic premise is flawed: it is not the population size which causes poverty but the legacy of centuries of exploitation. eg. Taiwan has 718 people per sq. km. yet it would take a man only 1.6 years to purchase a Land Cruiser. Japan has 340 people per. sq. km and it would take a man 1.4 years to purchase a Land Cruiser. Hong Kong has 7000 people per sq. km and it would take a man 1.2 years to purchase a Land Cruiser.

In a third world country with no Medicare, no age care, no mental health care and damn all else care it's _essential_ to have a number of children to ensure you are taken care of in your old age or if you suffer an accident. Even a broken leg may cause a crippling injury because you can't afford to have it set properly. Without children you will be reduced to begging in order to get food to stay alive.

And on the 1pm news on ABC radio today I heard that some Ethiopians are selling their children for US$1.50 into prostitution or service - I don't imagine any of us who have been parents would think they could do that easily.

China's "One Child Policy" was a failure
http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/population_control/one_child.html

Not only that but are you _really_ advocating a system where women are dragged screaming into abortion clinics to have their baby aborted?!

High infant mortality in the third world is not caused by the size of the birth rate but by a severe lack of medical facilities and even more by the fact that very few people have the money to pay for their medical treatment.

The European countries shamelessly exploited Africa and the Far East for a long time - Europeans were doing exactly that until very recently in South Africa. Indeed the slave trade was a respected method of earning a living until the late 1800s (I think?).

Quote from the following site:
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt.asp
"Debt has crippled many developing countries. Often based on loans taken out by prior rulers and dictators (many of which various Western nations put into power to suit their interests), millions face poorer and poorer living standards as precious resources are diverted to debt repayment."

And that so the banks and major institutions of The West can make fat profits and pay substantial dividends to shareholders (superannuation funds, ie. you and me!).

Harvey Norman are selling wide screen TV sets for $10,000 - that's 10 years income for a family in Benin - perhaps we should consider that the next time we sit down to watch Star Wars?

The people of New York use more energy _purely_ in commuting to and from work in one week than all the people of Africa use in one year.

So what's the deal guys? Bollocks to the lot of them? Or is there something of an imbalance of wealth here?

Mike Harding

mike_harding@fastmail.fm

PS. Bob, I don't think the criticsm was aimed at you but more at other posters to this thread.

WOW an air strike! a bit over the top dont you think.....
whats wrong with one of our subs (if they really are a sub) just patroling these areas for target practice...no one will ever know

LOL - subs !!

Well at least the collins class bathtubs make enough noise to scare off the fish and therefore the fishermen would also leave. :-)))

1 x 50 cal should be able to reduce their numbers by at least one! that would leave how many more to be spent? probably none as the sight of the first casualty should stop the rest!

Yeah...

and bring in the death penalty for everyone with an IQ of 100 or less.

Problem solved.

And all right handers while we're at it. That will definitely cure 99.9% of the world's problems :)

well actualy you should start with the bleeding heart dogooders first

Already covered with Robak's comment :)

what a brilliant idea!