Emergency Beacon via onboard GPS
Submitted: Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 10:48
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Alan Southport QLD
Hi there guys and gals,
As you lot run around in the outback - remote areas. You might be able to help.
Does anyone know a comms / GPS system; that if you 'pressed' an 'Emergency button it would send a signal to say satelite or a ground based reciever - BUT send your location as in a GPS coordinate? But if to a satelite, the signal must be able to reach a ground recieving station with the GPS location within 1-2 hours.
So you are lost/missing (3 days).
Miles from anywhere 100km from any mobile phone and you needed to let 'someone' know you need help. You press a nice red button with EMGNY on it connected to your GPS unit and it sends the signal out. The people looking for you have set up a reciever within the last known 100kms that you were last seen in. This reciever then gets your 'signal'. And the GPS coordinates of where you are pop up on the searchers laptop - so they know where you are, and help is on the way.
I don't want the Epirbs (or whatever), they send a signal to satelite and then id the serial numbr to see who's it is and contact the id's nexk of kin/friend etc.
Sea going beacons, have short range and none (that i know of), give off GPS coordinates and are normaly found by 'Direction Finder'. Most of (from what i know), these systems can have delays of relaying the data for up to 4 hours.
Any help on this would be welcome.
Thanks,
Alan.
Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 11:11
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 11:11
Alan,
Are you sure on your EPIRB facts?
The new 406 MHz beacons do all that you are after and some of thenm include a built-in GPS.
Extract from the Australian Marine Safety Authority:-
"The 406 MHz distress
beacon emits both an analogue 121.5 MHz signal and a digital 406 MHz signal. The digital signal carries a code which identifies the
beacon while the analogue signal is to enable aircraft to home on location. That digital code can be cross referenced with a database of registered 406 MHz
beacon owners held at AMSA which identifies who is in trouble and what type of situation they are in. This enables the search and rescue authorities to tailor a response to the emergency situation.
A 406 MHz
beacon narrows its position to within 5 kilometres. This can be reduced to just 120 metres if the
beacon includes a Global Positioning System. Detection of 406 MHz beacons can be near instantaneous from a geo-stationary satellite."
AnswerID:
138956
Follow Up By: Alan Southport QLD - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 18:08
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 18:08
Hi Sand Man,
I think i mentioned that the epirbs do 'ID' the serial number to the owner. But your right, it does allow the the aircraft to 'home in'. It only does this by 'location bearing' The aircraft has to find it's own way, it is not told where to go.
But i will have to look at the 406Mhz distress beacons a bit more.
Those systems do have a time limit, which is governed by the GPS system - i have heard, can be upto 2 hours delay before the signal is received. I was also hoping to have it 'locally, only for Aussies lost, not for the rest of the world to know (America monitors all GPS traffic, particually Emergency issues) :)
However, i was hoping (not initaily mentioned), to have some form of two way radio communication as
well.
Some other replies are mentioning Sat phone with a seperate GPS. I have to look into that as
well.
Cheers,
Alan.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: robak (QLD) - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 11:12
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 11:12
Don't know of anything like that, but a satelite phone and a gps would work just as
well. In fact better, as you can tell the person at the other end of the phone what the emergency is.
R.
AnswerID:
138957
Reply By: The Explorer - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 11:14
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 11:14
Hello - I think some HF radios have this ability when linked to GPS. You could also just ring up on a sat phone or
HF radio and tell people your position off a GPS..this is probably the best, most reliable method currently available. I thought epirbs also gave rough position?
Cheers
Greg
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AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - ROTORD - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 13:26
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 13:26
Hello Alan
The coms/gps system is good for some operators but has the disadvantage of being wired into the vehicle . If the vehicle burns/sinks/smashes/goes missing : you have lost your system . Also , if you leave the vehicle and then become stranded you have no system . The EPIRB in the pocket is the best set up for the greater variety of emergencies . The 406 EPIRB , especially the ones with gps , have instantaneous accurate response to Rescue Co-ordination Centre in
Canberra and your recorded details are immediately available .
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Banjo The First (SA) - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 14:21
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 14:21
Indeed - as others have suggested, when the chips are down (when the ballon goes up - when you are in deep shtoom - wheninsert additional cliche of choice here, simplicity is your greatest ally. A budget GPS unit will allow YOU to ascertain the coords reliably. All you need then is the long distance comms facility - HF or Satphone - A used Satphone or a basic used HF will see the whole exercise done for about $7-800 maybe - maybe buy the budget GPS and hire the comms. I'd much rather be talking to someone 'anywhere' if I was in trouble, that to simply flick a switch on an epirb and hope ! Even though some of the phones/HF will auto send GPS coords, you'll be happier I suggest if you have personally conveyed the figures to others on line - at least you know they have it !
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Kiwi Kia - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 15:01
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 15:01
I am told that sat phones work
well in open dry country but have limitations in thick bush, raining, snowing and or heavy mist. Can anyone confirm this ?
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 15:36
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 15:36
A sat phone, like all satellite gear needs to be able to "see" the bird in oder to be able to operate effectively. They also appear to be pretty useless if you're mobile. Different service providers have different standards of service but they all have one thing in common. They're expensive to have and to use.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 20:58
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 20:58
Globalsat has limited coverage because the satellite you link to has to be in range of groundstation.
Iridium-based
services will work anywhere in Australia. If you get a Telstra Satellite Service you can use a GSM card in it and not pay any monthly fees. You just pay twice as much per minute for calls.
FollowupID:
392822
Reply By: Alan Southport QLD - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 18:25
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 18:25
Hi all,
First thanks for your responces.
Assuming every one has a GPS when they are out 'there', the Sat phone would be the best way to go. It offers two way comms and if a GPS is on board (and working), then all good.
The HF idea seems ok as
well. Cheaper and
well proven technology.
What wattage would be required at 12volts, to transmitt to a reciever 100kms away or 200kms: Can anyone give a me a sample HF Transciever model and what exactly would the frequency range be?
Are there any HF transcievers that incorporate external RS232 (USB, Parallel or any other sockets) for connection to a GPS or optional control boards??
With the 406Mhz beacons, besides the activation data being transmitted to
Canberra (and the rest of whomever is listening). I would assume that the GPS location is known - but then again no comms, just location! :(
Ok, thanks again.
Must be honest here guys. I'm trying to put together a resuce device so that if someone or a group, is lost in the outback and they are with a dead vehicle - yet come across a 'standalone' device stitting on the ground 15kms away from the dead 4x4. They hit a button and it sends a location signal to the 'resucers' 100km away. They get the signal (know which device has been activated, becuase 3 have been deployed!), and can then talk to the person who pressed the button - offering medical or practical assistance, whilst the helicopter is sent to help them.
The
HF radio seems ok, but a GPS location has to be sent as
well. An onboard GPS would be fairly ok - but not if your Japanese and no not Engrish :)
Cheers,
Alan.
AnswerID:
139017
Follow Up By: Greens - Monday, Nov 14, 2005 at 17:22
Monday, Nov 14, 2005 at 17:22
Is this supposed to be something like the emergency phones along major
routes?
One issue to consider is encouraging people who are lost / have a disabled vehicle to range 15KM away from their vehicle looking for one of these devices isn't likely to improve their chances of survival. Just look at any of the number of stories about people whose vehicle is found
well before they are.
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Follow Up By: Alan Southport QLD - Monday, Nov 14, 2005 at 18:09
Monday, Nov 14, 2005 at 18:09
Hi Greens,
Thanks for your reply.
The mention of a 'standalone rescue device', was purely analogous in relation to vehicle as in a device which was meant to be mobile.
The 'device', once someone got to it and pressed the 'help' button - would send a HF GPS signal to rescue base.
If the Vehicle had such a system, then there would be no need for my 'devices' and help (assuming the Search and Rescue department and SES were going to be monitoring it), help would be on it's way.
My device(s), would be if dropped 'around' last know feasible location (Wandering speed etc). Then if they made their way to a device [Humans when lost follow the path of least resistance (That includes walking downhill), It's not always the best way to go). If they saw a flashing light, or heard a 'ship Whaaaaaaaaa' noise - they would go for it! then pressing the button, then the SES would know where they are.
I only used the Vehicle as an example as for being very lost - no mobile coverage, car broken down under foalage, UHF comms etc.
I agree with you, that staying with the vehicle is the best. And in my case, the rescue parties would have no need to deploy the 'devices'.
Cheers,
Alan.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Peter 2 - Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 20:52
Friday, Nov 11, 2005 at 20:52
Both Barrett and codan HF's for the last few models can transmit positions in a selcall if connected to a GPS.
Some can also be called/selcalled and asked for the current position by another radio without operator input at the vehicle end. My 550 Barrett can do this and it is by no means new but over ten years old now.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Alan Southport QLD - Saturday, Nov 12, 2005 at 15:56
Saturday, Nov 12, 2005 at 15:56
Once again thanks to you all for giving me suggestions.
I think that Peter 2 - has hit the nail on the head. And i will look into that avenue with a bit more zeal.
I had considered using UHF, but HF seems the way to go.
Thanks, again.
Alan.
AnswerID:
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