4WD associations not supporting their members?

Submitted: Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 11:30
ThreadID: 30001 Views:2571 Replies:17 FollowUps:34
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One thing I must say: Exploroz is supporting the membership by indicating where to get the cheapest fuel available by town all around Australia and indicating the fuel price increase with a daily clear chart.

But Exploreoz is an exception.

About 90% 4WD clubs in Australia find too difficult to support and stand for the right of their members.

The price of fuel is shocking.

Some new laws about 4WD are unfounded and plainly incorrect.
But no one challenges anything.
Just like " Norm, the couch potatoes", watching the virtuallity on TV until reality hit our back pocket.

In 2002 we went from Melbourne to Cape York and back. We used 1800 liter of diesel.
It cost us $960.
In 2005 we did a similar trip using 1900 liters of diesel and it cost us $2400.
In 3 years the price of fuel as more than double.

The cost of fuel increased by 250% in 3 years.

(My wages has not increased by 250% in 3 years.)

I haven't seen many 4WD clubs saying to the government "enough is enough"

All I can see from some of these 4WD clubs newsletters are the latest Australian laws passed by the government to screw the 4WDriver in more than one way.
What's next after the price of fuel?

Some 4wd clubs got it totally wrong- what pays the survival of these 4WD clubs are the members, not the government.

No one challenges anything.

This is why it was good to see some posting in this forum, from cabbageoz and
Wim (Qld)
BlueSky
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Reply By: WheelTravel - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 11:58

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 11:58
Fuel should be more expensive...Fuel in OZ is dirt cheap even at $1.20/litre... it's over$3/litre in Europe...Yes, it is also overtaxed... but so is everything, not just fuel!

We are running out of it... and fast... all the big oil reserves have been found...

Mad Max is not that unrealistic... in fact, in Iraq, it's already happening to an extent...

I give us about 100 years till we completely f&*k up this planet...completely...

And yes.. it's MONDAY!!!!

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Follow Up By: Member - Tony G (ACT) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:13

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:13
I guess you will be one of the first on the next rocket to the moon.

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Follow Up By: Kiwi Kia - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 21:08

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 21:08
Is Monday a full moon day also ?
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Reply By: robak (QLD) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:11

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:11
BlueSky

Just wondering which laws in particular are you refreeing to?

That increase in tyhe cost of your fuel would've been a bit of a shock. I'm sure prices didn't increase that much. Is there anything else that changed about your trip. Different route? Different car maybe?

I'm not in a club so can't comment on their actoins or lack of, but the best thing you can do is talk to the people thtat make the laws. Make them listen. After all that's hat you pay them for.

R.
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Follow Up By: BlueSky - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:33

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:33
Thanks Robak
My wife " The Boss " pays the fuel by CC. We used 1800 liters of diesel
and the total CC came to $960.

In 2005 "The Boss" paid $2400 for 1900 liters of diesel by CC. We have a booklet to log every refueling so we can check our comsuption and if something is abnormal in our comsuption.

This has nothing to do with the number of Kms or which route we took.

May be if we went through "The Lodge" in Canberra it could have been cheaper.
:-) ;-)

I dont; think we allowed to 4WD on the lawn.

BlueSky.
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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:41

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:41
Sorry, I didn't read your original post properly.

In 2002 your fuel was on average $0.53 a litre
In 2005 your fuel was on average $1.26 a litre.

Maybe there's something wrong with your 2002 fuel costs. My memory is not great but it seems a little cheap.

R.
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Reply By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:11

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:11
It isn't going to get any better either. Send a letter to the controlling body...ie white house
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Follow Up By: BlueSky - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:24

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:24
I love it...
Bluesky
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Reply By: Member - Marquis - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:31

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:31
I would expect in years to come (10 - 30 years?) - people will start to see high efficiency energy conversion systems entering into the market. Which will lead to more hydrogen/electrical powered vehicles.
AnswerID: 150281

Reply By: Steve - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:39

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:39
apologies if this isn't entirely "on topic" but it does explain a lot.

btw, back in September, less than 6 months back, I was paying 37c per L for LPG. It's now 55/60c. Off the top of my head, that's about a 60% hike whilst petrol has been comparatively stable. Is this related to shenanagins in the Middle East? I don't think so. grrrrr
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Follow Up By: Steve - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:44

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:44
Silly me. Forgot to post the link:

link text

hope that works
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Follow Up By: BlueSky - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:38

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:38
Steve
I agree.
Just like you pointed out, why a hike of 60% on the lpg.
Just like your article says it has nothing to do with the price of oil overseas.
Something else is going on and I(we) am/are paying for it.
BlueSky
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Follow Up By: Brew69(SA) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 16:16

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 16:16
LPG Adelaide metro yesterday BP 63.9c. What a f***ing joke. Like mentioned we were paying less just 6 months ago. This would be like ulp and diesel going from 1.30 to 2.30 in 6 months.
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Follow Up By: Boc1971 - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 17:16

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 17:16
I had pointed out in abother post not to long ago about LPG pricing - It always sky rockets this time of year as the northern hemisphere is in winter , therefore the LPG demand up there is VERY HIGH - summer time here always means 50 c + for LPG - wait for winter - it will come down again when the demand up north drops -- I have had lpg vehicles now for for over 5 years . and has been the norm for all of these years ....

Boc
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:59

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:59
Um, think I am missing something here. Oil prices are determined globally, largely by supply and demand, although supply can be and often is, manipulated by the big producers (OPEC and a couple of others). Speculators also effect the demand side, but only in the short term.

Our government can only control the level of tax, not the price of oil, or the cost of production. Although the tax on petrol in Australia is high, by world standards it is low.

Australia consumes less than 2% of global oil. My guess is that 4WD club members (and I am one) use less than 2% of fuel in Australia. 2% of 2% is approximately SFA. Sorry, but I think blaming 'inactive' 4WD clubs for the price of oil is drawing a....... veeeery......long bow.

I'm as cranky as anyone about the price of fuel, but unfortunately it is a fact of life. It is our choice to drive big heavy 4WDs, loaded to the hilt and towing similarly heavy trailers etc. Yes, feel a bit p*ssed off about it, but anger and frustration will just get you ulcers!
AnswerID: 150294

Follow Up By: Charlie - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 18:11

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 18:11
Canada which self sufficient in oil and even an exporter still pays the global price for fuel, bottom line is why would an oil company sell would locally if you won’t pay the global price they can easily export it.
Regards Charlie
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:59

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:59
Hi Bluesky,

I think its a bit rich to criticize 4WD clubs for not ".... support and stand for the right of their members". As the secretary to WC4X4, we do our work unpaid in a voluntary position to keep the club going, but to be expected to lobby government organisations as well is simply expecting way too much from people who have already volunteered some of their spare time. Some of our members do attend Track Care meetings and are part of lobby groups, but this is up to the individual and also how much time they have.

If you are so concerned, why are you not out their lobbying? Are you not another couch potatoe doing nothing about it too??? There are groups out there, or if you don't like what they are doing, why not start a lobby group yourself?

Sorry if I have taken this out of context, but it really irks me when people sit back and critisize volunteers in unpaid positions about not doing enough to help while doing nothing to help themselves!!!

Off my soapbox now

Cheers

Captain
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:14

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:14
"If you are so concerned, why are you not out their lobbying?"

its easier to criticize than do something.
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Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (SA) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:58

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:58
Ditto - So Bluesky.. if you are that upset about this.. in addition to voclaisinghere about your grpes with 4WD clubs.. why not print off a letter and write to your MP. Better still vlunteer to do it in behalf of your 4WD club.. easy to sit back and bitch about the clubs.. why not join one and then do what you complain isn't being done.. get of yer bumb and write .. otherwise qit bitchin.. you are just as bad as everyone else who gets on the band wagon.. if your willing to bitch about it, then get of your bum and do something rahter than expect others to do it for you.. either that or you are ina pretty good 4WD club that you think you can pay fees for and then EXPECT the managment to write on your behalf.. if you arein such a club, then let us all know which one becuase I guess like anyone else we all want everything done for us dont we???
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Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (SA) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:59

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:59
Ditto - So Bluesky.. if you are that upset about this.. in addition to vocalising here about your gripes with 4WD clubs.. why not print off a letter and write to your MP. Better still volunteer to do it on behalf of your 4WD club.. easy to sit back and bitch about the clubs.. why not join one and then do what you complain isn't being done.. get of yer bumb and write .. otherwise qit bitchin.. you are just as bad as everyone else who gets on the band wagon.. if your willing to bitch about it, then get of your bum and do something rather than expect others to do it for you.. either that or you are in a pretty good 4WD club that you think you can pay fees for and then EXPECT the managment to write on your behalf.. if you are in such a club, then let us all know which one becuase I guess like anyone else we all want everything done for us dont we???
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Follow Up By: BlueSky - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 14:02

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 14:02
Coyote
It is called take my money and do nothing for the members
Bluesky
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 14:15

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 14:15
BlueSky,

What do you expect your club to do for you? Run 4WD trips, keep tracks open, provide recovery gear, ensure club is covered legal liability wise etc... AND then you want them to lobby the government because YOU are paying too much for fuel.

What do you expect for your $50 annual membership? You praise this forum, yet you are not a member here (help supporting the running of the forum etc...).

Sorry but I have had an absolute gutful of whinging people who complain nobody does anything for them. Whatever happened to looking after yourself. And YOU are complaining about club management being a couch potato??? I think its time YOU got off your couch and took a long hard look in the mirror.

Now that I have got that off my chest, I can get off the soapbox again.

Cheers

Captain

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Follow Up By: Des Lexic - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 15:00

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 15:00
Well put Captain, from the front bench:- Here Here
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 00:45

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 00:45
Ignore it, it is still School holidays in parts of Aussie.
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Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 14:58

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 14:58
hehe here.. nothing wrong with expressig frustration but instead of just listing our whinges we should al lbe contributing to the fixes as well. .. otherwise we have no right to whinge about anything..
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Reply By: Member - Jack - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:10

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:10
Complaining to the Government about fuel prices is like complaining to your mother-in-law about your wife.

Bring on the nuclear powered Land Cruiser. Woo hoo !!!!!

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 150297

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:34

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:34
Perspective:

I started driving in 1981, petrol 29.9c/l (Super), average car cost $6000 (XD Falcon).

Today petrol $1.20 avg (x4), BA Falcon $33-35000 (x5-6)

Herald newspaper15-20c, now $1+(x8), etc...........

Stop whinging.
AnswerID: 150300

Follow Up By: BlueSky - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:59

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:59
Gary
You are talking about the standard increase in the cost of living.

Your cost of living from 1981 to 2005 increased each year by 4%.

Now we have a cost of living increasing by 250% in 3 years.

To put it in your figure in perspective,if you were buying petrol in 1981
at $0.29 (29 cents) then after 25 years at the rate of 250% increase every 3 years.
We should be paying (25/3) * 250% = 2080% or
2080% /100 * $0.29 (29 cents) = $6.04 (604 cents) per liter.

Probably you can afford $6.00 per liter of fuel - I can't.
(My calculation are rough)

Gary for you an increase of 2080% in 25 years is good. Great.
see you later.
At this rate in 25 years , with a $600 per week pension I'll only be able to buy a "mars bar".
BlueSky
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Reply By: Jim-Bob - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:56

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 13:56
G'day Bluesky.
I'm a little puzzled here, you state that in 2002 you used 1800 litres of fuel at a cost of $960, this works out to be only 53 cents per litre.
In 2005 you usd 1900 litres at a cost of $2400, this works out to be $1.26 per litre.
In Newcasle, N.S.W., in 2002 diesel was 89.9 cents per litre.
May I sugest that you are missing a 1 in your cost, in other words your 1800 litres of fuel actually cost you $1960, this would then work out to be $1.08 cents per litre.
In 2002 we did 5,555klms going to Birdsville, Maree, Arkaroola and back home through Broken Hill at an average cost of $1.03 cents per litre.

Safe travells

Jim-Bob

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Follow Up By: BlueSky - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 14:29

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 14:29
Jim_Bo
In 2002 the fuel was 52 cents in QLD.
and was 57.9 cent in Melbourne at that time.

Where is Cape York? in Qld.

We did not go to the Cape York by the Simpson.
We did the same route on the Newell Hwy or nearly the same route along the QLD coast and straight up.

In 2001 in Bedouri (Qld- Diamantina) the fuel was $139 per litre
and' was 49 cents per liter in 2001 on the QLD coast at the same time.

I am talking here of standard refuelling and a similar route.

Your route and the prices you paid has nothing to do with my trip.

You are telling me two similar trips with the same route would finish with similar prices.
So for you there has been no fuel price increase in 3 years.
Great. this is your perception.

But here I am talking about my trip and not your trip and it has been a fuel price increase of 250% in 3 years.
Bluesky

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Follow Up By: robak (QLD) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 15:39

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 15:39
August 5 2002

highest price for petrol was 90.5c, the lowest 81.5c and the average 86.3c per litre

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Follow Up By: Jim-Bob - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 16:13

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 16:13
G,day robak

Right on..........

2001 Wynnum( Qld coast) 89.7 c/litre
2001 Dubbo( Newell Hwy) 98.5c/litre
2002 Dubbo( Newell Hwy) 89.9 c/litre
2004 Dubbo 108.9c/litre
2005 Dubbo 129.9c/litre

Safe travells

Jim-Bob
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Follow Up By: BlueSky - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 17:43

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 17:43
These fuel figiures above are the most expensive figures for fuel.
BP or Shell have the most expensive fuel depending the time of the month/ week / day.
These are not the figures of IFS .
Independent Fuel Supply all over Australia.
BleuSky
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 23:33

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 23:33
>>> In 2002 the fuel was 57.9 cent in Melbourne at that time.
What are you smoking?

TROLL!
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Follow Up By: JJ - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 14:38

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 14:38
2002 ulp Jan. Apr. Sept.
Maryborough Q. 67.9 69.9 77.9 Matilda
Ettamoogah Q. 69.1 1.138 1.180 ?
Woodburn NSW 74.8 83.9 IFS
Raymond Tce NSW 68.9 92.9 ?
Tamworth NSW 87.9 ww
Warrick Q 79.7 Matilda
Goondiwindi Q 85.9 Shell

Hope this remains in columns. No tab (?).
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Follow Up By: JJ - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 14:59

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 14:59
Whoops...didn't work ... just adds to the confusion of this already confusing post.
Will try again, for what my 2¢ is worth!

2002 ulp prices p/l
Maryborough Q. Jan. 67.9... Apr. 69.9... Sept.77.9.. Matilda
Ettamoogah Q....Jan. 69.1... Apr. 1.138..Sept. 1,180 ?
Woodburn NSW.Jan. 74.8... Apr. 74.8 ....................IFS
Raymond Tce. NSW.............Apr. 68.9 ...Sept. 92.9 ..?
Tamworth NSW...................Apr. 87.9......................ww
Warrick Q...........................Apr. 79.7......................Matilda
Goondiwindi Q.....................................Sept. 85.9...Original Truck Stop.

Will see how this goes...
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Reply By: Member - ROTORD - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 14:26

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 14:26
Hello BlueSky

Your statistics on fuel prices/wages over the last three years are correct , but misleading . Over the last ten years , wages have increased more than fuel . The steep rise in fuel price in the last three years certainly attracts the attention but much of the pain is due to the increased cost of housing in the same period . The level of taxes on fuel is agreed to by both major political parties and reflects a desire to disencourage wasting an export product and aggravating our balance of trade.

So what to do . I think our level of all taxes are to high and we should be tackling our politicians on that score .

At a personal level , if priority dictates , fuel costs can be hedged by investing in energy companies . I have free petrol for life , and then my base investment will be returned to my estate . When prices rise , so do my returns . Yes I did have to allocate funds to the investment , but I can still draw on those funds I if my circumstances change .
AnswerID: 150307

Follow Up By: BlueSky - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 14:42

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 14:42
Rotord
Good on you.

How many ExplorOz readers are in your situation?

Bluesky
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Follow Up By: Member - ROTORD - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 18:04

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 18:04
Hello BlueSky

I know at least one forumite who has gone through this exercise with brewery shares and claims to be drinking for free.

One option to fund the investment would be to forego buying a new 4WD , buy second hand , and invest the difference . Thus the choice would be - new car and pay for petrol or used car and free petrol .

I drive a used car .
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Reply By: bruce.h (WA) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 16:27

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 16:27
having now worked with the wa association for a very long time , i can tell you that if the clubs dont put the issues up & the member s dont support it then the association can not do anything about it.
associations are only as good as the members make it or supply the money to make it.
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Follow Up By: BlueSky - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 17:44

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 17:44
So true
BlueSky
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Reply By: roofscooter2 - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 21:12

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 21:12
could we all just shoot our 4by's & other vehicles & buy horses , a tad slower but cheaper & still has 4x4.
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Follow Up By: Member - Coyote (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 15:00

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 15:00
and auto pilot..
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Reply By: Member - Johno (Gold Coast) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 21:39

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 21:39
Are you a member of an Automobile Assosiation such as the RACQ? Australia wide there are over 6 million members and it is through these chanels because of their size that results can be acheived. Your state motoring organisation is your vioce and has been in QLD for 100 years, contact them and you be surprized at what issues they are fighting for us.
AnswerID: 150435

Reply By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 22:56

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 22:56
Why is it those with the cheapest fuel whinge the most? I havnt seen fuel as cheap as you mention in your first trip for many many years and those horendous prices you mention in last time you poked your nose out of the city I would be stoked with those prices coz it would mean paying about 10 cpl less - and thats before i head bush. Take a leaf from those that dont enjoy the low fuel prices of capitol citys and get the lord to grant you serenity over those things you cant control
AnswerID: 150462

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 23:51

Monday, Jan 23, 2006 at 23:51
'get the lord to grant you serenity over those things you cant control'.

Good one Davoe
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Follow Up By: BenSpoon - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 00:43

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 00:43
They could do more for us though davoe- Im gonna see if they can lower intrerest rates and slow inflation while they are dropping the world price of oil for me.
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Widgiemooltha) - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 00:48

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 00:48
True some of the 1.3 billion reaped in royalties from mining last financial year could be used to cut state fuel tax in the bush where it came from rather than blow it on giving city living FIFO workers $1000 tax rebates and building more bridges, railways and whatever else they do in Perth.
BTW will be back thursday if you want to test out your HF
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Reply By: gramps - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 00:51

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 00:51
The scales have fallen from my eyes

this is actually a very late/early Friday Funny. Where are you Bonz ?????
AnswerID: 150498

Reply By: BlueSky - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 15:32

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 15:32
Many "bogus" fuel price figures on some of the previous posting, which are only
there to make believe that we did not have a 250% fuel increase since the year 2002 .

Time for or the people who've been massaging the price of fuel to take a grip with reality.
Directly from the horses mouth -> The Australian Bureau of Statistics

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/6388ac9115143ddeca25702f007b49ef?OpenDocument

These figure from ABS show very clearly in March 2004 the average daily price was at its lowest at 84 cents per liter. This was only 18 months ago.
Some people have posted in this thread figures which are the most expensive prices of the month.
Nice try to present the highest price of the month , but it did not work.

From these ABS figure it is very clear the CPI (Consumer price Index) has forced the price of goods higher and the wages have NOT follow by a long way.
Yes we have a 250% fuel increase since the year 2002
BlueSky
AnswerID: 150568

Follow Up By: BlueSky - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 15:37

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2006 at 15:37
Click here to see the Bureau Of Statistic Figures for 2004
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