Why the (*&^ don't people search first?
Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 25, 2006 at 23:11
ThreadID:
30118
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geocacher (djcache)
My gripe for the evening.
Why is it that people - predominantly non members - don't search first before posting questions that many of us have put (collectively) hours and pages into answering many times over?
Predominantly questions on satphones,
first aid kits, crappy chinese generators (noise generators??), cooper tyres chipping, and Nissan 3 litre Patrols expiring in a spectacular fashion, seem to be the hot topics that attract offenders.
What would happen if all the regulars stopped answering them for a couple of weeks and just referred them to past posts?
David has put a lot of effort into the search functions and they aren't hard to use.
After all many of the new guests have probably already used a search engine to find the site in the first place.
It's not rocket science. It is inconsiderate. And it perpetually fills the pages at the top of the posts with crap that's been done to death, and in many cases no new information comes to light.
Dave
Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 25, 2006 at 23:51
Wednesday, Jan 25, 2006 at 23:51
Be tolerant people.
Some people, especially visitors, but not restricted to them are not as familiar with the
forum like some "smarty pants" and probably don't notice that there is a search function.
I would sooner anyone ask the question regardless. There is always someone who may have new, or updated knowledge to share.
So go ahead everyone, ask away. That is what the
forum is about and bugger those of us who are uptight, or intolerant, or maybe just miserable:-)
I wont bite ya's.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 00:06
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 00:06
Are you suggesting that all who know about the search function are "smarty pants"?
I don't think it's too much to ask.
Personally I have contributed lengthy answers to the
First Aid Kit question on a number of occassions. Several hundred words and quite a bit of time.
I'd love to answer each and every thread that starts on the topic. There are many "less than adequate"
first aid kits out there being marketed at exorbitant prices by reputable organisations.
Unfortunately I don't have an abundance of time. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to ask that people at least make the effort to have a look first - after all it is they who expect others to dedicate the time to answering their question with quality answers.
On many occasions it would actually save them the time of typing a lengthy question in the first place.
It's not unlike people who call triple O to report a person unconscious in a park or in a stationary car without stopping to
check it out. Then we have to go out in an ambulance (my longest trip to such a job was a 50km each way response) to find out that the person was fatigued and stopped for a power nap, or was having a snooze in the park. Do you think it's reasonable that they tie up an emergency vehicle for an hour (so it's not available to you) because they couldn't be fagged stopping to render assistance or
check out the situation first?
Dave
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: crfan - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 00:10
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 00:10
I agree with you sandman ,and you can speed read though the stuff you know the answer to.
I think this
forum has the best system for reading all the new posts and picking what you want to have a look at.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 00:31
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 00:31
Dave,
Let me put it another way.
Not everyone is as computer literate as you, or I, or understands the ettiquette preached on here from time to time.
Let them post I say!
Now go and have another beer mate.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 00:37
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 00:37
Bed time actually. Working in Wang tomorrow so very early start for very long day.
Stirred up some interesting responses though. Be interesting to see the ones that come in tomorrow on the bosses time when they all get into the office to start "work".
Computers save time and increase productivity you know...they must IBM told us they would in the early 80's.
Dave
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Follow Up By: Trekkie - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 21:10
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 21:10
Actually "tomorrow" is s Public Holiday for most of us
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 22:56
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 22:56
No such luxury here. I spent most of my day juggling resources around covering CFA staging posts and reading fire updates, with a brief interlude to give about 15 mins of
first aid instruction to a parent whose kid ripped his neck open on a star picket & barbed wire fence off a 4 wheel motor bike.
Dave
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - t0me (WA) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 01:50
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 01:50
Hey DJ, I believe this topic has been covered in a previous post. Perhaps if you'd done a search first....
J/K mate, drives me batty sometimes too :-)
Sometimes I find that if there's a lot of posting on a particular day then a topic will get lost really quickly before its been played out properly and the questions (etc) answered completely. When that's happened I can understand a re-post on a previously covered topic.
It does reflect on the pretty piss poor attitude some people have where they don't give a rats a$$ that someone else has had to do the work for them. They happily take advantage of the good people who are willing to help out where they can, when with as much or less effort they could have sorted things out for themselves.
Laziness I guess?
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 09:09
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 09:09
Dave,
I understand your frustrations as a long time contributor/member. However, from a relative newcomer's perspective, remember that getting involved with a
forum such as this can be a little daunting. While the bantering between those who know each other and have been at it for a while is great and often amusing, it can come across as a little daunting to someone who is new to the
forum and make them feel a little bit like an outsider. For some people, a simple question (even if it has appeared many times before) is a good way to
test the waters and get involved. If the response to my first ever post was, 'search the
forum it has been answered before many times', then some may be reluctant to post again.
I guess that the bottom line (IMHO) is that some time spent by the more 'experiennced' forumists answering questions that may be simple and oft repeated, provides a great welcome to new users and encourages them to
sign up.
As a special interest group, we come under pressure from many quarters, I reckon that the more we can do to promote a sense of community for 4wders, then the better off we are.
Cheers,
Matt.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: geocacher (djcache) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 09:37
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 09:37
Gees there's some people with thin skin here.
All I suggested was that people
search forums for info before posting, and suggested that I felt a bit miffed that questions I had put a lot of effort into answering were being asked time and again. Okay maybe I could have toned down the subject line, and the original post a little but I stand by much of what I said, certainly the intent of it.
Sorry to those that have heaped abuse here, that I bothered to answer those questions in the past, and for feeling that those answers had been worth the time and effort that I put into them. I must have been mistaken, as were those who who PM'd me on various topics, and those who built the
drawers & bits & pieces I've spent time doing drawings for and the like. I further apologise for making the effort to submit a few
trek notes from time to time.
Now I give my time freely cos I like helping people. I don't profess to be part of anything other than the
forum as a group. Inevitably there will be people who are new and old members of the group, and members and non-members. I didn't draw the distinction to profess anything other than that. How else do you make the distinction?
For that I have been accused of being part of a clique, being exclusive and berated, abused and worse.
I can agree to disagree with a few people. Thanks to those who asked people to tone it down. (I'm not quite sure who Ozdyssey's post was directed at - me or the post above - so I'll reserve myself for a bit on that one.)
Other than that, if I have offended any newcomers to the group I apologise.
Most people have treated this as what it was intended, a post to promote a discussion about the merits of searching before posting, and maybe to get a few people to use the archives. Others have unfortunately demonstrated that it's far easier to abuse someone you've never met while hiding behind a keyboard, based on a few lines of type.
Dave
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 09:46
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 09:46
>Gees there's some people with thin skin here.
There certainly are :)
Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: gramps - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 10:03
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 10:03
Dave,
Don't worry about it. Anything posted on the
Forum is bound to generate some heat somewhere. It all blows over pretty quickly.
If you see a post that has been well and truly answered previously, reply or ignore it. If you ignore it somebody else will jump in and then it normally snowballs from there.
Regards
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 10:07
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 10:07
Dave,
I hope that my post was not one of the ones that caused you offence. The advice and attitude of yourself and many others was one of the reasons I wanted to join up. Nothing wrong either with the light hearted banter between members who know each other personally or through this
forum, it adds a great spirit and sense of community. You only need to look at John's recent post (30123) to see how great a
forum like this can be for making friends. All that I ask is that we consider those new to this community, show a little patience and before long they are familiar with all that this
forum has to offer and able to use it well.
Cheers,
Matt.
P.S. The pst on the drunk idiot in WA (29816) was one of the funniest things I have read for a long time.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Gerhardp1 - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 11:15
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 11:15
Martyr Syndrome - or Centre of the Earth Syndrome - or both?
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Follow Up By: obone - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 13:03
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 13:03
Hey Goecacher, you started this thread sitting on top of your high horse and finished it like a whipped mongrel dog " sorry..... I bothered to answer those questions in the past".
Fair dinkum, you'd put my 5 year old granddaughter to shame in the dummy spitting and pouting lip event.
Please don't waste your time answering any future questions at all, that'll show em'
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 22:37
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 22:37
Didn't think I had to write "Sarcasm on" and "Sarcasm off" at the start and the end of that paragraph, obone. Maybe I should have.
Dave
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Des - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 10:57
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 10:57
I agree that the
search function works well. Sometimes too well. When I wanted to but a
fridge recently I did a
search for relevant terms and came up with lots and lots of hits. I read many many posts. The signal/noise ratio was not great, but in any one there were likely to be nuggets of further info or new developments. I suspect that many people aren't prepared to spend the time doing this and find it easier to just post, for the 100th time, "What
fridge should I buy?" I tried instead to ask a specific question about two particular models that I was considering.
Actually one of the striking from reading all these posts is how generous people are. Every time someone posts the same question, they will patiently provide the answer. Sometimes there is abuse (see above example), but most people are patient, courteous and helpful. The goodwill and body of knowledge in this
forum is something hard to build and very valuable. That's the main reason why I am a member. We all have a responsibility to keep it alive.
Last point. After 30,000 posts, I think the single
forum is too unwieldy. There are currently over 900 active posts. By my count there have been about 30 new posts in the last 24 hours. Unless you look every day, even most regulars (say, every 7 or 14 days) are only going to see the titles of a small proportion of posts. That means that only a small proportion of people are available to answer any given post. If you don't get the answer you want within a couple of days, your post will drift down the list and you are unlikely to get a response from a new person. Thus most posts die within a few days. That adds to the temptation for people to cast a new line in the sea to try to catch a new fish. And so it goes on, in an increasing spiral. One answer, to me, is split the
forum into subject areas that reflect a reasonble division of the topics. That way someone with a particular interest in posts about travel can focus on the travel
forum. Those with an interest in vehicle problems can do likewise. And so on.
That's my two-bob's worth.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - t0me (WA) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 12:09
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 12:09
eh, funnily enuf I started a thread on this last night coz I was thinking the exact same thing (your last point) have a look at PostID: 30124
For now I reackon it will stay like it is.
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Reply By: Member - Collyn R (WA) - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 12:53
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 12:53
It is tedious answering the same question for the 127th time (that year!), but searching does not overcome that technology constantly changes.
What was the optimum solution two/three years ago may not be today: AGM batteries are becoming the norm; solarmodules are increasing smaller per watt making it more feasible to run larger fridges; fuel cells are now available (even if they do cost several thousand dollars).
There is stuff in the first editions of my books that is no longer valid - I update them every few months for exactly the above reasons.
Re Engel via
Waeco. As correct installation is so vital, in almost every discussion of this topic, respondents are comparing the way they have installed the
fridge - rather than the fridges themselves.
Install either properly and there's little if anything between them (although I feel Engel is better made).
Collyn Rivers
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Crackles - Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 20:22
Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 at 20:22
Got to agree Dave. Too many repeats of the same topic in too short a period. I get over it by refering the newby back to an appropiate post or by simply cut & pasting my entire response a 2nd time. For anyone with expertise in a subject it often takes some considerable effort to type a detailed response then to have it slip off the front page in as little as a day only to be reposted again within the week.
We don't really wont to get to the point where members keep a folder of all their responses so they can cut & paste them into the new post to avoid retyping it over again.
For the new guys who repeat post not much can be done, but for the regulars, well............they just like seeing their names up in lights or are trolling ;-)
I put many of the repeated posts about which product to buy down to individuals trying to justify their purchase by finding others who'll agree with them (no matter how bad it may be). I find it quite amusing :-)
Cheers Craig...............
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