Goodbye NT Parks

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:42
ThreadID: 32802 Views:1824 Replies:8 FollowUps:40
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This maybee to far from a lot of peoples back yards to care, but I thought a few of you who travel up this way might like to know what the government has in mind for our National parks and maybee even help.
Basicaly they want to hand over the majority of NT national parks to groups of Indigenous people and rent them back off them.
Any one interested try this website for more info.

www.saveourparksestate.com

Sorry I dont know how to make it a link, Youll have to copy and paste.

Cheers
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Reply By: turbopete - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:47

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:47
same as has happened with ayers rock seems to work ok
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:59

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:59
Im not political or raciist so I wont get into a debate but that comment couldnt be further from the truth.
You pay to look at it, rarely are allowed to climb it, cant camp any where near it,
anyone classed as commercial cant even photograph it and the nearbye community of Mititjulu has turned into one of the worst communities around because of the money generated by it.
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:58

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:58
You don't have to be political or racist to have an opinion about an AUSTRALIAN icon, do you ?

Yes I know it's a tricky area. Unfortunately if anyone that says anything about certain topics is automatically branded, then there could be unintended side effects. Public debate and awareness could be stifled, thus leading to a lack of empathy with various groups. And at it's most basic, a lack of empathy can turn into a lack of $$$, something I believe we are seeing at the moment.

The problems are complex and can't be fixed in my lifetime. I don't have any answers, but I do know that neither racism nor reverse racism is a positive step forward for anyone.

We are all Australians, and the sooner we all respect that fact, the sooner things can get a little better for all of us.

Ok I'm off the soapbox now.

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Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Australia) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:10

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:10
What on earth is reverse racism!

Ok I know what you mean but is this term correct given that dictionary.com defines racism as

1 The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2 Discrimination or prejudice based on race
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:17

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:17
Despite the dictionaries (which are always out of date anyway) reverse racism often occurs when you're the only white guy around :))
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:22

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:22
And if you look up "hip pocket, cargo cult mentality" it isn't in the dictionary either. But it is in an unpublished paper I wrote a few years ago :))))))))
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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:33

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:33
Is it racist to be nice to someone of a different race if you are not normally that nice. ?

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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:44

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 11:44
Glenn, nothing nasty should ever come out of something good..and its a perfect world..NOT.
Depends upon the perception of the receiver I guess.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:47

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:47
Very astute observation Glen - I like it.

Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 13:19

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 13:19
Glenn, give an example of what you mean .
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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn D (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:06

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:06
Well , just say I dont normally take to people right off .

If I met someone of another race around the traps and decide to be friendly so that I didnt appear to be a racist , that would by definition make me a racist !

IE : treating somebody differently because of their race !
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:44

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 07:44
Glen, it seems these days that anyone can be called racist over anything where there are people of more than one race involved. Discrimination laws are a different matter, and I confess my ignorance of the exact legal definition. However I could not see them covering your example.
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Reply By: Willem - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:47

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 18:47
This was done with Kakadu in 1979 and also with Gurig(Cobourg) and Nitmiluk(Katherine Gorge), Gregory and others at later stages.

So it is nothing new.
AnswerID: 166501

Follow Up By: Footloose - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:34

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:34
I was in Kakadu after the hand over but before the toll. My kids saw something there that they'd never seen before...an exhibit at the rangers station that said "Please touch !" They still remember that.

I was also in Katherine when things were still being "negotiated". It was not a happy place for either mob. The racial tension was what I'd imagine in SA, not in Australia. Luckily it seems to have been forgotten, at least that's my impression.

Never been to Cobourg. I guess I missed that one unfortunately.

A map of the Territory shows a thin strip of tar winding through what appears to be mostly aboriginal lands. Bit of a shock to the newchum !
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 05:45

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 05:45
Here we go Loop de Loop
Here we go Loop de Lie....................or so the song goes........

The High Court of Australia set the precedent in 1992 with the Mabo Case stating that Captian Cook and the Brits were wrong and that there was no such thing as Terra Nullius.

Eventually, through the justice system, the indigenous peoples of the Antipodes will claim back ALL of Australia. We will fund them them to exist, we will fund them to make the claims, we will fund them to survive. 'WE' being the taxpayers, through the government of the day.

If you do not wish to be part of this system then

A: You can vote the government out BUT not the system
B: You can start a revolution
C: You can start an armed struggle
D: You can leave Australia for Belarus or some equally repressive place
E: You can find links in your family history tying you to the indigenous races
F: (and it rhymes with the letter)...You can shut the BLEEP up ( Not you,
Footy..lol) and live with it

So....... there it is in a nutshell.

My opinion, as usual.

Cheers

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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:07

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:07
...... and a future High Court could reverse or modify that decision (but I would'nt hold my breath waiting).

In this country there should'nt be a problem airing one's views on any subject whatsoever. So one does not have to "shut the BLEEP up" and just accept the status quo.

Again, just my opinion.

Regards
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:21

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:21
Ah... Another sleepless denizen..................though the sun must be up in the eastern states already.

I doubt very much if a future Hign Court would go down that path. I would say that it is pretty much fait accompli. But then again, anything is possible.

You will notice, Mr Gramps, that I have given a range of options on what to do and the BLEEP was part and parcel of the 6 suggestions as a balancing factor. There has to be a balance on everything and you are advocating no balance.

Histeria seems to grab hold of some people and they get anxiety attacks if it is percieved that their status quo is in danger of changing.

Regards

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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:30

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:30
Oi !!! What's this Mr Gramps $hit? You're stereotyping me as old.

Unfortunately your options only leave me with two viable alternatives. I'll let you decide which two I prefer. As for balance, I often lose mine and don't have any qualms admitting it. We all lean one way or another on any topic whatsoever, thankfully.

Hysteria is a bit over the top. Concern would probably be more accurate.

Regards
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:44

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:44
Well...no....I thought I was being friendly....must be my weird sense of humour...lol

I had a mate who was a Gramps at 39.

Would you prefer if I referred to you as Young Fella? LOL

Regards
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Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:53

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 07:53
You blokes are up too early ! :))
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 17:05

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 17:05
Hahahaha .... like you Willem, I was just stirring the possum so to speak. Just forgot to add a :) after old.

No offence was taken at all. My skin, like my head, is a lot thicker than that LOL

As for your mate, proves the adage that the acorn never falls far from the tree :)

Regards
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 17:08

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 17:08
Footy,

Not sure if it was a case of being up too early or being up too late :))))))))))

Regards
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Reply By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 19:04

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 19:04
For some reason I can't open any of their .pdf files... There has however been a pretty heated debate about this on FordForums... It has entered the "racism" phase so I don't bother looking anymore...
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:45

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:45
Blue
you need to update Adobe Reader 7.0, had the same problem

Richard
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:54

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:54
Richard, been using Adobe reader 7.0 for some time now... That was the first thing I thought of so i checked for an update... 7.0 is the latest and still I can't open them.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:59

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:59
blue
Mine is opening them ok????

Richard

Had the problem on one of the older comps. so I un-installed Adobe reader 7.0 and down loaded the latest ver. and installed.
I also use Adobe Acrobat 6.0 Standard and had to do a reinstall the other day for a different matter

Richard
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:06

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:06
I think my puta is just having a hissy fit Richard... just uninstalled and reinstalled reader 7.0, still no go...??? Guess I'll have to read it elsewhere.
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Follow Up By: Muzzgit (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:16

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:16
They tell me this is the reason for the pub at Millstream closing. It's control was handed over to the local mob and it went downhill real fast.

p.s Blue, you still not sure about that boy I see?
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue (VIC) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:22

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:22
HAHAHA, Muzz... Pretty sure he's mine, forgot that pic was there...
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Reply By: Member - Barry C (NT) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:14

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 22:14
This was done at Douglas Hot Springs ears ago also and results mixed with some initial trouble but haven't been there for ages. Barry
AnswerID: 166553

Reply By: Member - Doug T (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:21

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:21
Well the Territory Voters had the chance to get rid of her and they blew it. and
" It;s still not good enough Clare"

still going strong with 836,179 K's

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 166566

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:34

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:34
Australia had the chance to get rid of Coward, and they blew it - and boy did they blow it.

so NT is only a smaller version of it..
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Follow Up By: Steve - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:06

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 18:06
trouble is mate, Latham was the alternative.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 10:43

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 10:43
Not much of an alternative was it :(
neither is greens or demos
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Reply By: govo - Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:34

Tuesday, Apr 11, 2006 at 23:34
Hmmmm..how is it that you never see a land claim or "this used to be our land" on or around mangrove swamps and rocky diselete places...yer l know l'm haveing a winge but fair dinkum..give us a break...now the good ol aussie is being charged to see his own back yard..wonder if this would work both ways..maybe we can charge the "idigenous" poeple to use our places. : )
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 00:00

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 00:00
Cool

Put up a sign in front of your home because thats the only "our places" your got
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:36

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 12:36
>>maybe we can charge the "idigenous" poeple to use our places.
they would just whinge or send the bill to the white mans government that they only want to hear from when its handouts, and get white mans gov to pay for it..

I'd better stop now, wheres Martin Bryant when you need him....
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Reply By: Redback - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 08:08

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 08:08
Personally i don't see a problem myself, whats the difference in paying indigenous owners or the National Parks and the Government, your still paying someone to access the area.

Baz.
AnswerID: 166596

Follow Up By: turbopete - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:24

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:24
i,m with your view there is no problem we are all australians we have areas that we keep private our homes etc and we invite others in as far as i know there are few areas which we are excluded from mostly aboriginal living areas ....their homes mostly we can go where we want to some times we need permission i expect other to ask my permission before prior to entering my property so get a life and enjoy it
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Reply By: Ray Bates - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:03

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 09:03
I have always wondered what would have happened in this country if the Conquestadors (excuse the spelling) had colonised this country instead of the British??????
I used to live in the NT before Tracey. I went back a few months ago but never again
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Follow Up By: Hairy - Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 17:49

Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 at 17:49
Darwins paradise mate, try living in Alice now!
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Follow Up By: Joe King - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 08:02

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 08:02
hairy, It p*sses me a bit to hear you say that, what a shame. my wife is from there originally & raves about it all the time, we were going to go there for a holiday in August, may have a good think about it now....
Ray, agree 100%, there would be no-one to hand this stuff to...
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 11:30

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 11:30
Ray,

That's the plan. You go and have a look - don't like what you see - don't go back - mission accomplished. In a similar way you can see this work at Ayers Rock, Pajinka (wilderness Lodge) and Redfern. Used to work for a bank and had to do valuations in Redfern in the early 90's. It was amazing how cheap housing was there and how many vacant block abandoned buildings were about. The people that were sick of being intimidated ended up selling but there was only ever one buyer because no one else was game to move in.

It has nothing to do with racism, it is almost standover tactics supported by a weak government pandering to minority interest.

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 11:37

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 11:37
I think 70% of the population is not a bad effort, try looking up the history of this country you might be amazed, like most nations some of it's history is not pretty.

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 11:49

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 11:49
G'day Baz,

I agree 100% and our forefathers certainly did not have the same values as we do. When travelling to the Kimberley last year I was reading about some of its history and was disturbed to read that people were still being hunted like animals in the 50's - nothing to be proud about I agree. It happened all over the world and still happens today but fortunately not in Oz. Just reckon that we can't turn back the clock by excluding 95% of Australians from 30% of the country.

I think times have changed and we simply can't be made to pay forever for events in history. Because if we don't move on then everyone would have some sort of axe to grind and in part that is the trouble with the world today.

Kind regards

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Follow Up By: Hairy - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 12:54

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 12:54
Joe,
How long ago did your Mrs. live here?
There is still plenty to do and see but the stats are saying it is the most dangerous and violent place in Aust.
We dont go a week without a rape murder or major asult.
We had some trying to come through the back door last week and the police were to busy to even turn up!
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Follow Up By: Joe King - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:41

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 13:41
Hairy, she left about 1986, her Dad wanted to leave to find more work, she swore when she finished school she would go back, then I come along & ruined that lol...
she is always talking about the Alice & surrounds like it was the greatest place on earth, I just wish we had have gone & had a look 10 years ago when we were going to.
sounds like its in a bad way, isn't it always the way, you work for something, you have respect for it, get given it, you kick back & wait for more....
cheers JK
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 16:16

Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 at 16:16
Joe,

Go to Alice mate. I'm not disputing Hairy's account but in my opinion you just have to exercise the same common sense precautions you would employ in any of the major cities/towns around the country.

We were there last year for the first time since our previous visit in '84. Granted we were there less than a week each time but we did'nt feel any more threatened than going to the local shopping complex in Sydney's west.

Regards
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