Patrol - Is Seat Removal Legal?

Submitted: Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:21
ThreadID: 33812 Views:3010 Replies:7 FollowUps:9
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G'day,

I have a '99 GUII Patrol with dual fuel - and we're doing the loop from Sydney to The Centre via Broken Hill and back via Tennant Creek and Rockhampton in June/July. There will be 4 adults in the vehicle along with up to 92L of LPG and 75L of ULP - plus some "stuff" in the back - Waeco fridge, spare parts, 20L water etc. The rest will be in the (25Ft) van.

I'm thinking that the vehicle will be getting close to the Gross Vehicle Mass - and that we could save some weight by removing the un-needed 3rd row seats.

I presume that this is quite legal - as it would seem not to have any design implications.

Does anyone know to the contrary?

Many thanks.

Pete
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Reply By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:29

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:29
Hi LPG Pete,

I'm sure you'll get better info than this but if you don't then here's my 2c... Firstly I think the regs would probably vatry from state to state as per normal but generally speaking, temporary removal of the 3rd row seats is fine - the problem comes from defining "temporary". In your case it's bleeding obvious it's temporary but some people argue that once you put a set of drawers in then this no longer constitutes temporary. Sorry prob more info than you asked for but anyway! ;-) Hey have fun on your trip - sounds great!

Cheers
Scoey
AnswerID: 172254

Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:30

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:30
Regs are National

Temporary seat removal is allowed. Temporary is defined in the regs, as not needing special tools. Take the seats out, leave the bolts in and all will be fine.

Dave O
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FollowupID: 427848

Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:33

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:33
See Pete, told you you'd get better info! ;-) Cheers Dave!

Scoey!
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FollowupID: 427850

Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:37

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:37
LOL No problems.
This was a hot topic at 4wd clubs for a while.
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FollowupID: 427851

Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:41

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:41
Forgot to add, that you can't permanently fix something in the place of the seats. Drawers are fine IF they bolt in ie. don't need special tools to remove them. My drawers just fit into load restrain points and are not bolted, but retained by the fittings.
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Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:55

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:55
Yeah I thought that was the case but I wasn't sure.
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FollowupID: 427858

Reply By: mcgra (VIC) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:33

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:33
hi pete

depends what state your in.

in vic its not provided you do not remove the seat belts, but i have heard of people being done for it in nsw, even though the car manufacturers agree that removing the 3rd row does nothing to reduce the structural strenght of the 4by.

ring the local rta and see what they say.

gra
AnswerID: 172255

Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:44

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:44
See Link

www.anfwdc.asn.au/article_Detail.cfm?ID=24

Just updated recently by the look of it.
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FollowupID: 427855

Reply By: Bilbo - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:47

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:47
This subject has been done to death on several occasions and has been the subject of many "urban myths".

Basically the law says that if you remove the seats then you can't carry any more people for which there are seats and seat belts. So if you take out all but the front seats then you restricted to carrying only 2 people - you and a passenger. That's how my Patrol is set up.

Just make sure you put all the seat mounting bolts back in the holes. This is to prevent any exhaust gas from getting into the vehicle.

To my knowledge, there hasn't been anyone on this forum or any other forum that has been prosecuted or "chatted" about having the seats taken out. A lot of stories but no "actuals".

If I ever get booked for it, I'll take it to a lawyer. It's all myth.

Bilbo
AnswerID: 172258

Follow Up By: Scoey (QLD) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:02

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:02
Hey Bilbo,

I agree, the topic is subject to many and varied opinions but I think what they could get you on is that once you start removing seats the vehicle no longer is compliant with the compliance plate. ie seating capacity. With the exception being "temporary" removal - ie 3rd row seats that (in my case: 80 Series) come out without tools. 2nd row seats need tools and this may not be considered temporary by thier definition? Just a thought but...

Excellent point with the exhuast gas but!!!

Cheers
Scoey
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FollowupID: 427860

Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 17:42

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 17:42
ADR considers the compliance plate seating capacity as a maximum, so your car still complies with seats removed temporarily. However the assumption is that if you remove them permanantly, then you need to have the compliance plate record the new maximum seating capacity, which is of course equal to the numbr of permanent seats.
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FollowupID: 427947

Reply By: LPGPete - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:13

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:13
G'day again,

Thanks everyone. Gee, that was quick!!!

The seat removal will only be temporary - and I'll put all the bolts back in - which will limit us to a max. of 5 people, but we'll only have 4 and be well under the Gross Vehicle Mass, which is what I was hoping to achieve.

Thanks again to all.

Pete
AnswerID: 172264

Reply By: dieselup - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 18:31

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 18:31
I think you worry too much Pete
Just chuck the seats and make abit more usable space in the back
AnswerID: 172346

Reply By: Mikee5 (QLD) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 19:03

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 19:03
I have an ex police 100 series camera car. The police removed the front passenger seat(s) to fit the camera. The camera gear was mounted to the seat mounting bolt holes. They re-complianced it as a four seater. When they put it up for auction they re-complianced it as a six seater. It has three compliance plates now. I reckon the cops would know what is right. By the way this is in Qld.

Mike.
AnswerID: 172352

Follow Up By: Ray Bates - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 19:18

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 19:18
Could only happen in Queensland
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FollowupID: 427958

Reply By: tex1972 - Sunday, May 14, 2006 at 21:54

Sunday, May 14, 2006 at 21:54
we wanted to remove the seats from the back of a ford trader dual cab at work, until we found out you have to re compliance it so the seating numbers and the compliance plate match.(nsw)
AnswerID: 172675

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