Defender Td5 vibration

Submitted: Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:35
ThreadID: 33813 Views:5376 Replies:4 FollowUps:8
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Just wondering if any Defender Td5 (or Discovery Td5) owners can comment on a vibration I'm trying to locate. I have a 2005 Defender that to me seems a little harsh at mid revs. I suspect it might be the oil centrifuge. It is quite audible as it spins down after the engine is turned off. I can also feel some vibration through the gearstick with the engine off as it spins down.

At this stage I haven't removed the centrifuge bowl and driven it without it in. This would reduce the back pressure on the oil system as more oil would spill out than exits through the centrifuge bowl jets. I don't know if this would have any substantial impact on the oil pressure, so won't do it until I can establish that oil pressure would be OK.

Naturally, I have had Landrover look at it under warranty, but they point out that "Defenders are pretty basic, and noisy and the design hasn't changed much in 50 years!" ?????? What am I up against?

I figure I've got to identify the problem properly and then get them to rectify it. To take it to the nearest LR dealer and pick it up is 4 hrs out of my day. I'm flat strap all day every day, so if I take it back to LR, I want to make sure I don't waste my time.

I'd be grateful of any comments from LR owners.

Thanks
Brid
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:52

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 09:52
Hey Brid, No idea on this one but I gotta tell you I'm still trying to clean up all the yellow bleep I spilled from a bottle of FTC Decarboniser.! LOL . Wow that is seriously toxic stuff. I had to mix up a batch of CT18 and Some of the famous Pinkie Cleaning Solution to get it off my boat. I have since learned to make a Cost Effective Funnel to do this job for me. The product is great, thks..!
AnswerID: 172259

Follow Up By: Brid from Cost Effective Maintenance - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:45

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:45
Hi TerraFirma
Glad you like the FTC, but yeh, you gotta take care to avoid spills & staining.
All the best
Brid
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FollowupID: 427867

Reply By: Member - Omaroo (NSW) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:04

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:04
Brid - why do you think it's the centrifugal filter? Check the colour of your oil. Mine is still not black at the next service, as the filter does an incredible job of removing soot. If your oil is relatively good - the filter is working.

They are pretty well balanced as far as I know, and it is ESSENTIAL that you be able to hear it spin down for 10 seconds or so after a run - as this is entirely proper and normal. The fact that you can hear it spinning means that it isn't binding, and being on sintered bronze bushes they will bind easily if the unit is out of balance (i.e. captured soot and sediment not spinning out to the edges evenly).

Do yourself a favour and replace it anyway. They are $22-ish from Land Rover, and DON'T use an aftermarket one. The last after market one I put in bound because the bearings were not drilled out to the right clearance. This led to my question to Land Rover service guys.. "should I be able to hear it spin?" - to which the answer was a very loud YES.

I wouldn't run the engine for very long without the filter in place.

Make no mistake, while you could call the overall body design of a Defender "rudimentary and utilitarian" the Td5 engine is far from that. It should be reasonablt smooth right to redline (3900 or so). Are you sure it isn't the gearbox, transfer case or something else in the driveline? Is the harshness speed or rev related?

Cheers
Chris
AnswerID: 172263

Follow Up By: Member - Omaroo (NSW) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:08

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:08
Whoops:

"I can also feel some vibration through the gearstick with the engine off as it spins down."

I didn't read that part correctly. You might be right then. When was it last changed? Reason I ask is that most dealers don't change the centrifugal filter every time they change the oil and spin-off filter. I think it's every third or fourth change or thereabouts. Takes 5 minutes to repolace the centrifuge - much easier than the spin-off (for which most people remove turbo plumbing to get at it).
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FollowupID: 427861

Follow Up By: Brid from Cost Effective Maintenance - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:33

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:33
Hi Chris
Thanks for your comments. The oil is clean, even at 20,000km when it was changed with the filter & bowl. The bowl didn't feel like it had a lot of dirt (comparing weight with the replacement bowl), but the oil is clean, as expected, and there could be other reasons contributing to this.

As it happens, the new bowl is after market, and spins down a bit louder, so I recognize this as a possibility. Anyway there's no binding. The bearings could have too much clearance, or a defective shaft perhaps? There was the same vibration with the original bowl, but less noise on spin down.

The other change made at the same time was to a higher viscosity oil (15W40). I have the old bowl wrapped up still, just in case, so can swap it over to test...when I find a few moments.

The vibration is rev related (not speed). If you get a chance, Chris, could you check for vibration through the gearstick, as the bowls spins down AFTER the engine is shut down, please?

Thanks
Brid
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FollowupID: 427865

Follow Up By: Member - Omaroo (NSW) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:47

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:47
Brid - just gone and done that. I can hear it spin down, quietly. There is absolutely no vibration through the gearshift - or if i put my hand on top of the spinner bowl to feel for vibration. It's dead smooth.

I was going to mention that it could also be a loose-fitting spinner (rather than tight) which is rattling on the shaft a little as it spins. It's a very-nicely cut shaft and should have an almost mirror smooth surface - so I doubt it's the shaft. I'd just go to Land Rover direct and get one with the "Land Rover" logo stamped on the side to be sure. If the aftermarket ones can be made too tight, they could, I suppose, also be made too sloppy. If it's really old then maybe the bronze bushes have worn beyond tolerance. It does spin quite quickly, so a little rattle would be exacerbated at revs I'd assume

I was told that you should stay with the recommended viscosity and not venture to heavier 15w-oils such as Penrite HPR. I run 5W-40 Mobil1 fully synthetic - but that's me.
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FollowupID: 427870

Follow Up By: Brid from Cost Effective Maintenance - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 11:00

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 11:00
Chris
That helps to know that the vibration through the gearstick is absent in your during spin down. The engine is at 28000km now the bowl at 8000km, but my vibration concerns at mid revs go back to brand new.

The 15W40 shouldn't be outside LR requirements for our ambients (QLD)

Thanks again for your help.
Brid
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FollowupID: 427874

Follow Up By: Member - Omaroo (NSW) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 11:08

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 11:08
Ah! hehe... QLD vs. Cooma, NSW. I'm in Sydney today, but it got down to -6 deg a couple of days ago in Cooma... and rose to 11 during the day. 15W-40 would stop my engine from turning over in the morning :)
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FollowupID: 427875

Reply By: Alan H - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:35

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:35
I've just changed mine Brid and can just hear it as it runs down. No vibration at all. As it's only a quick cheap job, change it and see if it was the problem.
I believe LR don't change it until 60,000klms but most drivers I know do it at 20,000 and the oil and filter at 10,000klms.

I've heard of the probs. with after market spinnersand noted that mine was made by Mann and had LR on it so I suppose it is a genuine article but no doubt others will know for sure.
Try the technical forum on www.aulro.com for answers to all things LR.
Alan.
AnswerID: 172266

Follow Up By: Brid from Cost Effective Maintenance - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:50

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:50
Thanks Alan
Hopefully I get around to that on the weekend.
Brid
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FollowupID: 427871

Follow Up By: Member - Omaroo (NSW) - Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:51

Friday, May 12, 2006 at 10:51
Alan - the old aulro site is still up at the moment but you can't leave any posts (archival look-ups only). You can find the old site at www.our4wd.com

The new one....?? I can't wait to see it when it comes up!! :)
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FollowupID: 427872

Reply By: Rosco - Qld - Saturday, May 13, 2006 at 16:45

Saturday, May 13, 2006 at 16:45
G'day Brid

Finally got around to checking mine. Can certainly hear it run down and put hand on gearstick. No vibration as such but you can feel the rundown vaguely through the lever.

Cheers
AnswerID: 172533

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