Fuel filters and contamination!

Submitted: Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 at 21:59
ThreadID: 36158 Views:2773 Replies:5 FollowUps:11
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Hi.

Just frustrated to hear so much crap in regard to fuel filtration on 4wd vechicles in a recent post!! Call me what you like, but their is no substitute for experience.

Generally there is two things that contaminate a filter in every day running,

Sediment,(as dirt, rust particle, water.) Water is the thing that does the most damage ,under pump pressure or suction it will make its wayto the injector pump no matter how many filters are there. Therefore a water trap at the suction end at the supply end is a great assett. clear bowl so you can see the contamination before start up each morning. Diesel floats on water, so you can see the water content from the bottom up. If its rising drain the bowl and the fuel tank till its gone easy to see! With sediment, it usually starts to block the filter causing power loss straight away, so whats the point in having more filters the first one cops the contamination, the second one is only a back up why have any more??. MY excacavator has 1 water trap at the fuel tank, 1 small spin on fuel filter, and probably uses 300ltrs a wk. never had a issue with pumps or fuel related items in 8yrs. Just drain that water out every week, and change that filter regulary.
may not have sounded very nice at the start of this , but no offence mean't. Just another trying day.

Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 at 22:45

Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 at 22:45
Gday Axle

I got involved in a couple of those threads, they got me a little worried. Not so much with the contamination issue, but the ammount of work the injection pumps have to do to suck the fuel all the way up fron the tanks. I haven't had a good look under the Patrol yet, but I plan to put an electric fuel pump near the tank, and a second fuel filter in the line. Not that I think the Nissan is inadequate, just a bit dear and a bit of a hasstle to change. I was hoping to fit a CAV type filter near the fuel tank if I can find/build enough protection for it, if not, under the bonnet it will go.

Reading your post, I got the impression the water trap worked better on the tank side of the pump. Is this the case?

Cheers Andrew
AnswerID: 185327

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 at 22:58

Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 at 22:58
Andrew.

In my opinion only, Definetley have the water trap as close to the fuel tank as possible, and something i did not mention, you can get little inline filters that screw into the banjo bolt at the suction side of the water trap, works a treat!!, all jap earthmoving equipment have them fitted.

Cheers.Axle
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FollowupID: 442106

Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 at 23:16

Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 at 23:16
Thanks for that Axle, I'll look into all the options tomorrow at my favourate shops. Another beauty on this subject, Nissan in their wisdom don't have a drain bung in the bottom of their tanks, and have some form of anti siphon in the fillers. you can just get small dia fuel line in the main tank, and I'm yet to get one down the aux. Would be fun to get a tank of bad fuel.......screwdriver through the bottom and a chitload of kneadit????

Cheers Andrew
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Follow Up By: traveller2 - Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 08:23

Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 08:23
Spoke to a Nissan driver with lots of water in his tank recently (filled from a drum apparently) had to pull the tank out to empty it!
Also had problems with the injection pump afterwards as due to the delay in getting fuel back into the system and flushing the water out of it there must have been some corrosion.
Back in the early 80's (all 40 series) Toyota had a water trap on all their diesels which was between the tank and filter, had a float in it that sounded a buzzer and warned you not to start or keep driving when the water reached a certain level. then it was a 5 minute job to open the drain and remove the water. As long as there was about half a tank of fuel it drained ok without allowing air in to the system.
They worked a treat, the only problem was that they rusted out if the owner/driver didn't drain regularly to remove the water out of the bottom.
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Reply By: Mr Fawlty - Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:03

Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:03
Hmmmmmmmmmmm very interesting. Ok so please can you chaps give me an answer to this one. The Jack has no visible means of telling if there is any water in the trap as it's in the bottom of the filter which is all pressed steel. I asked about fitting one of the CAV ones but was told that there is not enough room. I also use chemtech which is supposed to "eliminate water & other contaminants" How? turn them into gold dust which sits in the bottom of the tank? I wish...
Any ideas most welcome!
AnswerID: 185375

Reply By: Member - RockyOne - Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:41

Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:41
Water! Yeah ! Great gear in the radiator. Disaster in fuel. Jack Absolm always put a half cup of metho in each tank of gasoline when he filled up (no! he never drank the other half cup) as his journeys were typically through outback areas in a 4x2 and often filled from drums... I (like a dil) ( dil: a fool..a simpleton) recently put 20 litres of h2o into our Mitsubishi ute petrol tank from a black plastic Rheem™ jerry can (only ones to use in the hot areas..new ones have the new two cap system.Breathe better.Mine olde single cap ones have asthma.I wish they would crack or leak or just "die" so I can get the new ones..Likely! Now,where does this get us with diesel..Where are you Jack? His cars were gasoline I believe although he may have had diesel later..Ask Mal of the Leylands..Metho and gasoline mix perfectly..Metho and water do also..Water just exits the tank and frows thru the motor doing most likely,more good than harm (Wicked "Man Magazine" used to have adverts for a device that put water vapour into the intake air/fuel mix just prior to combustion..No! I never looked at the magazine photos ;-) You'd think I had a clue about I'm discussing.Fooled you! Oh yeah! Drifted! I drained the gasoline/water out thru the bung and put new fuel in with a full cup of metho..Injected Mitsubishi never missed a beat)!MPG:8!
AnswerID: 185382

Follow Up By: Mr Fawlty - Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 13:15

Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 13:15
The active ingredient in Chemtech diesel power plus is alchohol... so obviously metho & diesel will mix as Metho = denatured alchohol, or so it says on the drum...
without replacing the filter I can't tell if there is any water in the fuel....One of the olde worlde glass bowl fuel filters in the engine bay somewhere may be the go...
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Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 15:49

Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 15:49
at least you can see whats going on!! " persplex" bowl wont break as easy.

Axle.
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Follow Up By: tex1972 - Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 20:56

Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 20:56
"Chemtech Diesel Power. also disperses water in. fuel tanks, as well as." why would you put this in the tank. If you want an additive get one that makes the water settle to the bottom.(then you can drain it off) All this stuff would do is spread the water evenly thru the fuel so that your water trap wouldn't work and it can go straight to the pump.

Tex
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Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 21:32

Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 21:32
gday Tex

I think the additives will disperse the water in the fuel, combining it chemically so that it will go through the water trap and into the injection system to be burnt with the fuel. I may be wrong, but this presents no problem unles it is in large quantities, but you would need to put a huge ammount of additives in for this to occur. I agree with the draining of the tank, but Nissan in their infinate wisdom don't have a bung in the bottom of their tanks

Cheers Andrew

PS go the spellcheck
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Follow Up By: Member - RockyOne - Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 at 08:06

Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 at 08:06
Yes,andrew B & co, I doubt the small amount moisture in the fuel as it flows thru into the combustion chamber will present problems.Bearing in mind,of course,there is moisture in all air which has not been treated to remove it (di-humidified ?) I once did a "hydraulic" course at a TAFE college as I wanted to build a hydraulic driven 6ft,triple head mower.. The college called the course "Fluid Power" because of the fact all work similar except the air is compressorable (The mower is now 30yrs old and still works fine..Used a Mazda motor and diff.Rear wheel steer) We,of course,breathe air containing moisture,but not actual water so I guess motors operate the same way to a degree. I have faith in most of the products available from Wynns,Chemtech,BiTron and stick to the ones that have served me well over the years..We should be aware that if we add a solution to our fuel in the tank,that allows the water containd therein to mix with the fuel,it will be dissapated when the fuel is burnt,leaving no moisture content in the tank to cause rust and scale (brown gunk) or clogged filters..Guess I should update that statement a little,as with todays plastic tanks,rust in the containment vessel is no longer a player.
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Follow Up By: tex1972 - Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 at 18:34

Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 at 18:34
how much water does it take to kill an injecter it would want to be "bonded " pretty well because it the compression in the injector that turn the water into steam inside the injector and causes the damage also added water content reduces the lubricty of the diesel

Tex
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Reply By: Kiwi Kia - Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 14:52

Wednesday, Jul 26, 2006 at 14:52
You could always be extra careful and fill through a funnel with a chamois filter stretched across the inside. Petrol flows straight though, water does not, it sits on the top of the chamois as little droplets (or heaps if there was a lot of water in the fuel). I have used this method and it used to be standard for aircraft being fueled from drums. I have not tried it with diesel but I think it should work.

There is also a filter device available that contains a material that absorbs water and expands instantly blocking any liquid from passing through. This system is foolproof but even a small amount of water means you have to change the filter. All aircraft refueling carts (or tankers) that you see at airports have these type filters inline with the delivery hoses.
AnswerID: 185406

Reply By: Flash - Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 at 00:23

Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 at 00:23
So axle, what crap did you hear!
You are right- did not sound very nice at all at the start of your post.

Basically you can never filter diesel too well- the tolerances in injection pumps and injectors are incredibly tight.
Yes- water is a disaster, but so is other crap if it gets to the pump. Microscopic filtration such as from a Frantz or one of the others available such as:Filter Technology...
http://www.filtertechnology.com.au/SiteFiles/filtertechnologycomau/12p-6-10%20fma.pdf

.....can double or triple the life of injectors and injection pumps on diesels.
AnswerID: 185502

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 at 08:31

Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 at 08:31
AS I said did not mean to offend, I still think if you stray to far from the original setup, it could cause issues elsewhere. Regular servicing and having a clear water sediment trap is a bonus.

Cheers Axle
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Follow Up By: Flash - Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 at 21:12

Thursday, Jul 27, 2006 at 21:12
My 25 year old Gemini diesel died last year, unfortunately due to a failed timing belt. (siezed bearing on the idler pulley- Bugger!)
It was perfect mechanically till the blasted belt broke.
Approx 400,000 klms.
Injectors done once... at about 300,000 klms.
Oil AND fuel always filtered through a Frantz filter.
Oil changed roughly about every 30,000 klms (plus of course a slight top-up of aproximately 4- 500mls whenever the toilet roll was changed at about every 5,000 klms.)
The engine was absolutely spotless internally when I stripped it and no sign of wear on anything.
As I said- you can't filter fuel (or oil or air) too well on a diesel. The cleaner the better.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 442577

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