Dont expect a reply to this one!

Speed limits are put in place to make road safer for everyone.

They are not designed for "tax collection".

Idiots who disobey speed limits put other peoples safety at risk. They deserved to be fined.

And the moon is made from cheese.

I can't be bothered to do the research you should have done before making such a silly statement but here's a teaser:

-------------
That 2003-04 figure is interesting because the Auditor-General recently let slip that speeding fine revenues are tipped to be a massive $446 in 2003-04. If you took the figure back to the $99 million that the Kennett government collected in their final year, this alone would put them in deficit next financial year.
-------------

Mike Harding

I don't have the websites handy, however I read several US sites where they had been conducting studies on speed limits. The evidence showed that no matter what speed limit was sign posted people tended to drive at whatever speed they thought was safe. They changed the signs on the same stretch of road over a period of months with signs advising that they had been changed, both up and down and it made little difference to the average speed of traffic.

So in my mind if a stretch of road is a "hot spot" for speeding traffic, perhaps a higher speed limit would be more practicle than a speed camera...

There was also another study that showed that by increasing the speed limits in one particular state, there rod toll actually DECREASED. I'm sure if you google those you'll find the sites I'm talking about. I know there are certain stretches of road I used to drive on daily for work that my mind was totally lost on. My mind was like Homer Simpson's at college singing "LA LA LA LA DAH" as I wondered off to sleep driving down straight stretches of road for 20 mintes plus with no intersecting roads or buildings/houses at 80km/hr.... And guess where they used to always put the speed cameras...

Very interesting site:

www.policespeedcameras.info/

Yep Jimbo ,Know what your saying ok and I know and read all the replies before I started tapping my keyboard ,Depends on where,weather,Traffic etc. I don't see any problems driving to the conditions just there is a lot who can't

Doug

2 states in USA removed speedlimits outside of city areas, only kicking in at dark (there is a specific time but changes with the seasons), and road deaths have dropped....

bleep drivers and lack of training are the biggest problem.. most people get a license on a Frosties pack these days or the pub.

You all just make yourselves fodder for the Anti 4WD lobby!

2 points Shaker.

1. I never said that I was speeding, just that I got distracted going so underspeed on a few roads.
2. The times that happened were when I was driving a work vehicle, which was a Toyota Echo!

Jeez, Jimbo, I've heard many a time on those fishing shows that it's all about 'presentation of the bait'; and that was just beautiful. I can hear the old Alvey screamin'....

Hhhmmmm! very occasionally speeding is nessecary - not safe but neccesary, kinda like running for the train!

Cut up the president of my 4wd club a couple of weeks ago - speeding too....was running late for work and he was in a truck, boy o boy did he chew my ear off....:) extra careful since!

Off-track,

get yourself a Pedestrian Council wheelcover instead - it would look great on a 4wd :-))

Or a Scruby Doll on the bullbar!!!!!!!!!!!

Victorian road deaths:
2003 - 330
2004 - 343
2005 - 346

So more speed cameras save lives, do they?

Mike Harding

Of course they do mine, Bracks tells us this every day...
+ I read it on the internet, so it M U S T be true.... lmao

Hmmm interesting figures. Lots of other contributing factors, however, in comparison to the bad old days of 1977 (954 deaths) and 1980 (663 deaths) it makes you wonder.

ABS, seatbelts, airbags, better tyres, crumple zones... the list goes on....

As I said, "Lots of other contributing factors", but only a fool would say that speed cameras do NOT contribute anything to road safety. I definitely agree that they are not the Holy Grail as purported by our esteemed political masters :)))

SO much better are the roads and the cars for safety these days. Our speed limits are draconian and rediculous. I'm willing to be you could put every limit up 10km/h and it would make no difference whatsovever to the road toll. Most accidents are caused by inattention and plain stupidity IMHO.

If anyone thinks they are unsafe at anything over the speed limit, perhaps they should learn to drive more competantly.

Mike,

Just to stir the pot a little more, road deaths in the metropolitan Melbourne area

2001 247
2002 186
2003 141

Did you all stop driving or what ???

Mike

I noticed that everything you quoted is about Victoria. I wasn't writing about one little state that is commonly referred to as "Mexico".

In Victoria from what I have heard "revenue raising" would be the correct term. The speed camera are not controlled by police.

In SA the situation is a bit different. Data is used to ascertain high accident locations. Speed camera use is concentrated in the approach to those locations.

They cannot gain revenue from speed camera's if people didn't speed. Ever hear of accountability.

In Australia the accidents have been reduced by speed cameras. Speed is a factor. It is not the only factor and it is complex issue. It is from the replies here a very emotive issue.

The driver's who think they are above the law and speed are those with an attitude that does not consider other road users and their safety. That attitude is also the same for drivers who drive unnecessarily well under the speed limit.

The highest accident rate per population is the NT. They do not have a speed limit on the open roads. Driving on NT roads at this time of the year is a nightmare. You have people driving mobile homes / caravans travelling at 50 - 60 km/h and others trying to travel at 150 - 160 km/h. (Often in 4WD vehicles not designed for that speed)

As much as the numbers of deaths in any given year are a tragedy, I think they need to look at the number of vehicles involved in fatal accidents not the number of people killed when determining whether or not things are getting any better.

Sandy

With the NT fugures, I think you will find they probably have the lowest instances of seatbelt use, most unroadworthy cars etcetc. In remote area's, some people get a bit blarzae about safety. We hear quite often (very sad and avoidable) that a rollover occurs and the adults are ok but the baby/toddler dies. Walk down the street and you see people (?) nursing toddlers in the front seat, even seen it by the driver!

I dont think the speed limit in the territory is the problem. I have been told that while there is no speed limit on the open road, they are strict on it in towns, and thay are pretty severe on charging people with dangerous driving when going like a bat out of hell.

Cheers Andrew

we may be a bit lapse in the NT but they count " people" sleeping on the road getting killed
in the tally. take them away and see the diff

Yep, similar problem here, plenty of lost legs etc from sleeping (passing out) on the roadside.

A South Australian referring to Victorians as Mexicans ROFLMAO.

The term Mexican refers to "south of the border". The only thing south of the SA border is water.

As an Australian who has lived in many places, when I was a North Queenslander the reference to Mexicans was anyone south of Mackay.

South Aussies are every bit as Mexican as Vics, just not very good at it LOL.

When I was up in Nth Queensland I thought I was in Siberia, they do things real weird up there. Thinking about it all of Qld is rather strange but they appear to be a happy bunch but rather insecure, must be all that sunshine. As an import to this country I've never really understood this mexico business.

Kumunara,
What a crock!
Your right we dont have speed restrictions on open roads in the NT, nor do we need them.
You tried quoteing stats about road accidents......Take away the drunken black fellas ( this is grog related not speed!) and tourists accidents and see how it looks!
Maybee people coming from interstate who arent used to our road conditions should be restricted? Besides the law doesnt say you have to drive at 160km it just says you can if you want to! Most recorded accidents are SINGLE vehicle roll overs not involving anyone else but the boof head driving above his capabilities or his vehicles!
We dont need more rules put upon us, people just need to show some common sense and be accountable for their own actions.
Cheers

here here

Gday Handy,
A few of us are heading out to Birthday waterhole in about an hour, ( up hugh river off Glen helen road), Just an overnighter, come for a drive if you can get away. and yeah! Ill tow you through the rough spots!
Cheers

how ya going, cant make it , have you traded the toyota in for a nissan lol
have a beer for me. cheers

>>> but only a fool would say that speed cameras do NOT contribute anything to road safety.

How does sending me a fine in the mail 2-5 days later slow me down on the occasion of speeding when I was a threat? it cant, its pure money grabbing. NOTHING more.. it doesnt affect anything to do with safety. Infact there was some report (yea in our corrupt press), stating that the bacon were annoyed with the amount of accidents caused by people slowing down (isnt that what they are supposed to do),when they seee a camera, then speed up again.

in Vic, speed camera cars stand out like bull cods on a flea...

Truckie,

If the cameras cause some to modify their driving behaviour for whatever reason then that is a possible benefit. Others tend to ignore them and pay the price sooner or later.

As with 99% of what has been posted in this thread, it is an opinion. Take it or leave it.

NP..

I'll leave it for now,waiting for the improved version :P

hahahahaha no worries, be happy :)))))

Kumunara (SA) the thing that is credited with the positives is the anti-skid systems in cars and also getting road systems up to scratch. That doesn't mean getting the roads upgraded to Fry's Hut and the like though one would hope.

The anti-skid systems are there to do what driving trainers have not done, got the driver experience of different conditions up. I always liked to get car wheels off into the gravel or onto the wet and grass to experience the slide. A quad bike on capeweed was good too.

You may have given a wake up call that saves someone's life. I don't think pointing out the obvious is preaching YMMV

Good response Sand Man

Pete

I've done one. It was very educational and I agree everyone should do one. Interestingly the guys running ours agreed that speed limits were too low on some roads. In fact they also said (which I also agree with) that if you had the road all to yourself (ie race conditions) you should be able to drive a new road car at double the recommended limits otherwise you should not be allowed on the road.

They said that if you do not have either the skill or the confidence to do that you are a danger to everyone else.

You see these people all the time on country roads. Doing 120km/hr on the straights then slowing down to 70km/hr around courners that I can do a 110km/hr in the loaded 4by without a problem.

There is no test for that though. They make sure you can start on a hill and do 50km/hr around suburban streets parralell parking, but they don't take you out on a country road an make you drive 110km/hr round a few sweeping bends on a rough road do they!

"they also said .......... that if you had the road all to yourself (ie race conditions) you should be able to drive a new road car at double the recommended limits otherwise you should not be allowed on the road"

Just proves that certifications and experience does not preclude one from being a dope :))))

Hows it going Gramps ,

The recomended limit , like everything else in our society , is aimed at the lowest common denominator .

You cant expect a stock HQ to corner the same as a new WRX ( I have had both ).

Glenn.

Glenn D,

Fine, quite agree with the LCD bit but that's the way of the world now. Otherwise it's just the same old load of tripe served up by the "legend in their own lunchbox" types whenever the topic of speed limits comes along.

I'm sure most of the drivers killed in road accidents considered themselves well above average drivers until the lights went out.

Standard response of people who can't present a logical argument to support their myopic and parochial view of the situation - just try and rubbish other opinions in the hope they'll go away. Try looking a bit further afield Al.

Mike Harding

Oooh, obviously I touched a sore point. If you can't handle a differing opinion then don't get into the discussion. I don't need to re-iterate points already well made by other posters with views that are contrary to yours. But then again, unlike you, I don't put myself up as a know all about everything.

After a recent trip to Qld ,I have come to the opinon that people travelling slowly when there is only one lane each way cause people to attempt stupid overtakes, while driving the not overly powerful Patrol , having a new addition to the family and not caring about time made me a bit more patient others chose to risk their lives, I said in another post that I did 600km easily in Europe in 4hr ... here 800km took 12 1/2 hr. The answer to that is Autobahns dont have the local 70yr old driving at 80 kmh to get the paper from the next town ' I dont have to go fast to go only 1km ' while in a 100kmh zone and holding up people who are trying to put a few km under their belt.

I guess I have been guilty of speeding even if by 10 kmh to overtake the guy thats been holding a string of traffic up, you just have to decide who is more dangerous , me , or him. ( it must be me because our ever knowing government sets the speed limit , and if you go slower it must be safer )

Glenn.

You know Al… I have respect for your intelligence and usually enjoy reading your posts.

As is the nature of human beings you and I are not going to agree on everything - although we do have many values in common, I think.

You enjoy the cut and thrust of debate just as much as I and you don’t need to resort to thinly disguised, or open, abuse.

Mike Harding

Gramps, I know I'm going out on a limb here, but it may surprise you that there are a couple of other skills required to control a motor vehicle safely than just watching a speedo. Hell my 9 year old son can drive my 4wd on a paddock and keep it at a speed I tell him to, it doesn't mean I'm gong to let him loose in suburbia or on the open road!

These guys had skill. They could pull up a Hyundai Excel up while one of them was steering zig zags around traffic cones on wet blue metal from 60km/hr to 0km/hr quicker than anyone else there. One of them was lying on the floor and used two fingers on the brake pedal while the other one steered and told him when the brake marker was coming up.

If you can honestly tell me that if we were to close off a set area of country road, put a racing harness in a brand new commodore and gave you a racing helmet that you could not drive that vehicle around a corner recommended at 70km/hr by the signs at 140km/hr than I honestly believe you should be off the road.

Hell I can go around those corners at 100km/hr without a worry in the world keeping to my side of the road with a 4wd and roof rack for Christ sake...
BTW that is not speeding, 110km/r is still the speed limit, the recommended speed is just that.

Glenn,

I agree that slow drivers can cause some frustration, however, how often and how long are you stuck behind one that causes a major delay to your trip? Generally not often or very long. I was stuck behind a fool doing 70 in a 100k zone on Bells line of Road last weekend. Now I could have risked everything to get past him but did'nt bother because it would only have saved a few minutes overall. After a 9/10 hour drive why bother?

Jeff,

Hahahaha I can assure you that I am not fixated on my speedo whilst driving and have donated to State coffers on a number of occasions. Yes, I agree that with "closed road" conditions we could all negotiate bends at a far higher speed than recommended by the signs but we don't have the luxury of closed roads or ideal driving conditions. We share the roads with others. Glenn has already mentioned the "lowest common denominator" thinking followed by our much esteemed politicians/bureaucrats. Unfortunately, if we changed some of the recommended turning speeds from 35k to 110k, we'd fill the morgues and hospitals with idiots who'd try it. The survivors would then sue the authorities as being responsible for their own stupidity. Could be a way of improving the gene pool though :)))

Mike,

Suggest you re-read your earlier reply before calling the kettle black. I was also wondering why you quoted such a small sample of figures in an earlier reply. You could add

2000 407
2001 444
2002 397

While at it, I'll also add to the metro Melbourne figures

2004 121
2005 138

As posted previously, speeding is not the only cause of accidents, however, where are the majority of speed cameras in Melb? Metro area, I assume, but I could be wrong, again :))))

It's pretty obvious that some posters get very worked up about this subject and have myopic and parochial views hahahahaha Tough! Not everyone agrees. Learn to live with it because it is highly unlikely to change.

>Learn to live with it because it is highly unlikely to change.

It's perfectly clear that you and others are highly entrenched in your views and will never question them irrespective of the realities but if you could refrain from abuse it would be appreciated otherwise there is no point in communicating with you - I don't mind either way Al :) What was it you said in an earlier post? “If you can't handle a differing opinion then don't get into the discussion.”

btw the report I mentioned in another post, into country road deaths, received expert evidence that the human body, usually, cannot survive a collision at over 70kph so, surely, if governments (and people like you) were _serious_ about the speed thing there would be a major push to enforce a blanket 60kph (or maybe 80kph?) limit?

Mike Harding

PS. Perhaps you should change your sig to "People should do what their governments tell them to"?

Mike,

Where is the abuse other than in your mind? Your realities are yours, not necessarily mine. I suppose it's a good way of sidetracking the discussion and avoid answering.

If friendships are dependent on agreeing without questioning they are'nt worth the effort.

Do you honestly believe that the driver was a couple of ks over the limit and that was the direct cause of the accident?

Get the blinkers off, people.

As I said before, if you are an unsafe driver at a few ks over then you are probably an unsafe driver at any speed. If people concentrated when driving, didn't get distracted, and didn't take stupid risks, speeding would not be an issue.

I guess we are battling the grey army on this site, you are too numerous. (Just stay out of my road on the highway.

Camship ,impatience ,speed ,total lack of regard for for the law and rules of the road killed the 6 ,, nothing more nothing less ,,the grey army as you call it is not an issue when it comes to road safety ,,as for staying out of YOUR road ,since when do you own it ,, no matter which way you look at it 80/85 in a 60 zone IS a STUPID RISK .

Alloy,

You need to scroll down and find out the facts.

Move along, move along. No facts here, just divided opinions (as it should be).

"flying ferret's foreskin "...??? never seen one of those....hahahaha

Well said, all other major cities round the world have clear written and unwritten rules that the majority obey - ok the traffic jams may be worse but at least you don't feel as though you are running the gauntlet every time you drive to and from work and the stress levels are a lot lower.......

In the UK, courtesy seemed to be common place but here I just get looks of shock and confusion when I try and let a car in who is struggling to join busy traffic!! And do you get a nice firendly wave of acknowledgement for this......do you heck!!

Bad lane discipline, undertaking (the banning of which would solve a few problems), cars just casually coming to a complete standstill on the freeway to cross two lanes of traffic in order to make their exit, random stopping on the hard shoulder are just a few of the things I encounter everyday on the drive to and from Perth.

Whilst I am at it, why do some people think they can get away with outrageous behaviour just by putting their hazards on? Do they think it gives them some sort of diplomatic immunity?!! Not talking about genuine breakdowns, more the 'why dont I just pull up at the side of this busy slip road in the middle of rush hour to check the map' or the "oops, must have taken the worng exit lets see if I can reverse back down the exit and get back on the freeway" type of person.

Sorry for the rant......feel a lot better now though!

I agree with much of what you say Bilbo. I've driven most classes of vehicle across 12 countries over 36 years and from the perspective of skill level and awareness of the basic fact that other vehicles also use the roads Australians are sadly lacking.

Most people take the driving test when they are youngsters and, naturally, assume it is appropriate and testing (no pun intended), I took my Victorian test at age 40 after many years driving and had to do the same written and practical test as an 18 year old. I could not believe how simple and lacking in proper testing of skill and ability the practical test was.

As a rule in Oz we do not teach people how to drive - we teach them how to pass the driving test! Driving is a skill, just like tennis or golf, and whilst not everyone is capable of winning Wimbledon everyone is capable of being trained to be a much better driver if the facilities and incentives were available. eg. why are there not free skid pans where you can go and spend 30 minutes learning how to control a skid? Rather better than learning at 2am on a wet night on the freeway!

Road safety in Oz is a joke that's why there is so much concentration on speeding, it lets governments off the hook and is a pathetic attempt to produce a simple answer to a complex problem.

Take a look at how many recommendations this report makes about speed compared to the huge numbers it makes suggesting Vic Roads improve the roads.
http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/rsc/countryroadtoll/RSC-Report_CountryRoadToll_2005-05.pdf

Mike Harding

Onya Bilbo,,,you got it in one,,,,,,even gets better when you are driving a truck and still feel unsafe on the road...!

meow.

rick.

So where are you from originally Mike .

Originally? Belize.

Bilbo,

Your reference comparing us to the UK, Germany and France got me interested. The latest comparison figures I could find were for 2003.

Road deaths per 10,000 vehicles were 1.7 for France and 1.2 for the other three. Per billion vehicle ks were France 10.9, Germany 9.7, Aus 8.0 and UK 7.1
Per 100,000 population were France 10.2, Germany 8.0, Aus 8.2 and UK 6.1
Vehicles per 1,000 population were UK 535, France 607, Germany 650 and Aus 662.

Overall, hardly squat difference.

Gramps,

Statistics - all you are doing there is aidng and abetting those who say "Speed Cameras Save Lives". That little homily is based on statistics.

The reaility is we have bigger roads, hence faster roads and we don't know how to handle a vehicle on those roads. We should be having far less accidents/deaths than the Europeans precisely because we have a more open road system, less traffic congestion and bigger roads and run off areas. But we're not. There is, as you put it, "Overall, hardly squat difference".

We can't handle roundabouts, traffic lights are regarded as somewhere to mimick drag racing, a car in front of us is regarded as a "mobile chicane", a speed sign is a challenge to go faster, a pedestrian crossing is a place to score points - 10 fer the Grandma, go on, 10 points fer the Grandma and the baby in the pram is a bonus 20 points", driving on the left is worse than being a paedophile, a corner is something that should be taken as fast as we can without actually rolling it, a merge lane on a freeway is a lane where you can just put yer foot to the boards without looking at what's coming up behind you, most of us think brakes stop a car IMMEDIATELY. It goes on and on.

We should be doing a lot better with the fewer cars and bigger roads that we have.

And fer the girls - well the car is a good place to kill spare time texting thier mates and adjusting make-up or hair.

Basically we don't treat driving as a recognised thought process. We just do it subconconsciously, and the results speak for themselves - we kill people.

We don't drive cars, we aim 'em.

We can't DRIVE!

Bilbo

PS - Anyway, I'm off in the next few days to places that don't have roads. Away fer a few months.

"the results speak for themselves - we kill people"

Agree, but it is the same the world over despite better roads, more exacting driver training, speed cameras, etc etc. The figures for USA are even worse.

Have a great time out there :))))

Well said Jimbo.

I find the flack slung at interstate truckies to be completely unwarranted.

I've done a lot of interstate travel, particularly at night, and find the big rigs to be wonderful. The poor bastards have to compete with occassional travelers who wouldn't know their arse from their elbow.

We should all meet for a beer :)

I've driven trucks in a few places too (amongst them the UK, but not Oz) and in my opinion Aussie car drivers are about the worst in the Western world whilst Aussie truck drivers are about the best in the Western world. Spending a little time overseas and seeing how other people handle road safety may bring a greater sense of perspective to many in Oz.

Australia is not the font of all knowledge regarding road safety – other countries see it differently. One of the problems of being so far away from other countries.

Mike Harding

,,,,,,,,,,,,,"meet fer a beer",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm in W.A.. Where's everyone else?

I'd guesstimate that somwhere around Alice Springs would be a nice central spot.

I'll be there Sunday morning,,,,,,,,,,,

Bilbo

>I'll be there Sunday morning,,,,,,,,,,,

Don't tempt me... a while since I've been in Alice - you're not prospecting there I presume?

I'm planning to spend most of next week detecting in Vic but am getting keen on WA. I read the Finders forum too btw and have considerable respect for your knowledge in this area.

Mike Harding

No Mike, not prospectting in Alice. I'm stuck at home between trips. The loss of the 'Cruiser early this year (I'm sure you remember) was a body blow and getting a new truck "REALLY bush ready" is a major job. Plus there's a new van to be "bushproofed" as well. So I'm still doing odds and sods on the 'new' Nissan/Chev.

I've just finished removing ALL the rear seating, installing a drawer storage system, 80 litre water tank and an additional 100 litre diesel tank. We did do a 7 week trip up around Meeka last month, however we were a bit underdone to be living in the bush for months at a time. But most things are now complete and we'll be leaving for Leonora/Wiluna in about a week.

Good luck in Vic,

Bilbo

All i can say Bilbo, is that i will take your praise with the quiet dignity that we truckie's have.............................................LOLOLOL:)

meow.

rick.
Yhat was very well said,,,i'm gunna blush....:)

Any vehicle, truck or car, that is a "nightmare to keep in a straight line at 90 to 100 kmh" should not be allowed on the road.

Bilbo, you have referred to other road users as both clowns & idiots ...... Maybe you have an attitude problem?

Shaker,

Okay, okay - seeing as your're gonna be pedantic, let me put it another way -

"It takes a high level of skill, awareness and safety to maintain correct orientation of a Heavy Goods Vehicle whilst driving on the Australian road system."

Happy now,,,,??

And yes, I do have an attitude problem. The problem that I have is with yours.

Bilbo

I think you should tell; this post would go through the roof! But there is a moral dilemma; and you are a Sir now......

Hahahaha the mystery is solved. Congratulations. Hope all is well.

If I was allowed to have a rig profile (like on other sites) without having to pay for membership, you would see that I am a Jackaroo driver, not a patrol. I never said my misses was having a baby (although that's what I wanted you all to believe!) Sorry for those that took my response the wrong way, just trying to add some light-heartedness to this thread, I don't condone speeding but everyone does it sometimes, and we really don't know the circumstances. I would be more than impressed and respectful if the person owned up, admitted the error of his ways, but IT WASN'T ME!!!!!!!!

A very law abiding D-Jack!

LOL. Thanks D-Jack. Now I'm sure you're having a good chuckle :)))))

Jimbo ,funny that an ambulance has sirens and big flashing lights ,, how can you say that it was responsible to only do 85 in the situation ,,putting wife and babe at MORE risk and every other road user to boot ,,all excited ,panic,rational thought goes out the window.

What a crock

Jimbo ,now if its such a crock , why do we have laws ,he not only put himself and his wife and baby at risk by breaking the law ,that is not to mention the other wives and children on the road at the same time ,emergency or not how would you like to be the one or your wife and kids hurt /killed by someone elses excuse for breaking the law , oh my wifes having a baby ,oh im late for work ,oh im late for the pub ,,where does it end ,,yeah its a crock alright ,,

Alloy c/t, You have obviously led a very sheltered life, I understand it must be painfull for you to see everybody around you in such a relaxed state while you worry yourself to sleep each night, concerned about the war in the Middle East, the fuel crisis, will you get hit by a car when you step out your front door.

Take a step over the line, there is a whole new world over here on the dark side, come on man you only live once.

Camship ,the only thing your reply shows is that you are a part of the community commonly called Richard Cranium.

Allbeit a much happier place than over at the beige cardigan community.

Sandie,

I wasn't referring to you, I knew you'd never admit your error.

Just hoping some of the others might have a bit of human decency in them.

And FFS, are you are going to sit there and tell us you wouldn't do the same if it was your wife and child? Only a bald faced liar would suggest he wouldn't.

Jimbo,

Apologize for what? Once all the excitement has died down, DJ will probably think back on this thread and have a good laugh at the commotion he unwittingly caused. It definitely livened up an otherwise dull day.

Waiting, waiting.........

Still waiting

I guess I'll give up.

Sandie seems to have "gone to ground".

Very poor effort, but not unexpected.

Mike

Re the traffic problems where you live. It appears that you have had no response to your requests for assistance re the road safety problem. Uusually if you write to a politician you get some response. Try the media - a letter to the editor may bring you a positive result.

In regard to the speed camera on the freeway. My understanding of the situation in Victoria is that speed camera usage is by public servants not police. You don't say what the speed limit is on the freeway. If the speed limit is 100 km/h and people are bing pinched for 106 km/h it is ridiculous. A speedo can easily be out by 6 km/h. It the speed limit is 90 km/h and they are doing 106 km/h they deserve the fine.

The bottom line is that if you exceed the speed limit it is against the law. If you don't speed you will not ever get a fine from a speed camera.

I have had a speed camera fine. The only person I can blame for that was "The idiot behind dhte wheel" - me.

The fact is you can get booked in Vic doing 104. They take off 3% for "safety" camera innaccuracy and hence the fine is for doing 101 in a 100 zone. It happens all the time, there is no leniency whatsoever.

You said "The bottom line is that if you exceed the speed limit it is against the law. If you don't speed you will not ever get a fine from a speed camera."

Please leave this trite tripe for somewhere else. It's as boring as it is obvious.

Those amongst us with the ability to critically analyse things are fed up with the setting of senseless speed limits and the placement of the revenue cameras. We will not be dictated to, and lied to by government.

You are free to accept this rot from politicians, some of us will not. What makes you think we will take any more notice of you? You're just trotting out goverment propaganda that we have already dismissed.