Anne Beadell Hwy

Having met, been privileged to listen to him speak a few times and then camped with Len over 4 or 5 days he did indeed have a huge sense of humour. He also had that dry aussie humour with much said tongue in cheek.
I too have often been on one of his 'highways' have crested a high point and seen the 'road' straight as a die to the next significant landmark. Amazing stamina and resourcefulness and I for one remain in awe of his achievements in such remote country that we think of as a 'hard' trip with all the gear we carry let alone the vehicles we drive.

Footloose, I am not trying to hijack Willems great story, or create an argument, but is it the vehicles or the wind that creates the corrugations.

My theory is that it is the wind. There are corrugation type formations along the sandhills too, but no traffic.

I don't think the corrugations are as bad on roads that are generally away from the West - East alignment, which is where a lot of our wind comes from

But, I maybe wrong with this theory, I am wrong on lotsa other things.
Dave

Dave, Corrugations are caused by vehicles generally travelling too fast or too higher tyre pressure. I have seen roads deteriorate soon after being graded and no or little wind in the days following the grading. Also, our winds are generally from the SW and why do North/South roads corrugate then. Opposing views will be forthcoming but generally, the above reasons are accepted as the most plausable.
I have travelled the AB and Connie Sue and agree with his remarks on the corrugations but it is such beautiful country, I shall return there at some time in the future.

I agree with Des Lexic, the AB is wonderful country.
When we travelled it two years ago we had rain for 4 days, but it was still a good drive.

As for corrugations, we found the track was better maintained after Serpentine Lakes and the WA border. We were travelling east to west.

Ilkurlka RH was $1.64/L for diesel back then.

So much to see and explore out there. We are returning again one day.

Geoff.

Hi Des Lexic, you are right in that high speeds and high tyre pressure create corrugations faster, but according to Dr Karl you are going to get them regardless of speed and tyre pressure - even on railway lines!

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definitly vehicular traffic. Once you get off the tourist routes you rarely encounter them and if you do they are small

G'day mate

Have you had the donk out yet or is she still puffing away :-)

Thanks Uncle. Will catch up one of these days

Well Errol we must have just missed one another by a week or so on the trek.

You obviously enjoy corrugations. I don't. Each to their own....LOL

Cheers

Hi Motherhen

I was contemplating a quick trip down south but I think we had had enough of camping by that stage and when I looked at the map at Kal it looked too far away to the wet country...lol

Cheers

Thanks for the thought Willem - not as much rain as you actually coming like last year, but the thought alone has a last brought us some decent rains.

Yer Richard...drop in for a cuppa on your way past. Going to be away first two weeks of October otherwise you will find me in the back yard fixing the broken bits on the GQ :-)

"Oh. ..and the roadhouse on the AB is actually spelt Ilkulka"

Sorry troop-a-dour, it is spelt ILKURLKA.

Squizzy,
Whilst Ilkurkla is a recognised name of the area within the Shire of Laverton (in dispute by the Shire of Menzies) that area of the Spinifex (People) Determination Area. The roadhouse is named and referred to, even by the occupiers, as Ilkulka.

Anne Beadell Highway / Serpentine Lakes Road

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ilkurlka Roadhouse PH: (08) 9037 1147 or (08) 9037 1100 (Tjuntjunjara Community)
(165 kms West of South Australia/Western Australian Border)
Monday to Saturday 8am-5pm
Saturday, Sunday & Public Holidays By appointment

EFTPOS/Credit Card Facilities Available
Bankcard, MasterCard and Visa Cards accepted
No Fuel Cards accepted
Diners and American Express not accepted
No permit required to utilise this roadhouse

you say tomatoes- I say tomatoes
you say potatoes- I say potatoes

"After getting all the useless permits to travel this way we looked for interesting camp sites and found them away from the main AB track. This is probably NOT allowed in the true sense of the word but who really cares?"

Hey Troopie

That is not a 4wd attitude it is mine. I for one dont agree with the permit system and will not apply for them in the future as it is a waste of time.

But who really cares? C'mon you tell me. Who has asked to see a permit out there. It is all bureaucratic crap and in essence serves no purpose whatsoever other than to justify funding applications.

My dog played with Bill the black dog but no biscuits were asked for.

Hi Willem
Unfortunately this is not only your attitude. The consideration of 'I'll go where I want to- and camp where I want to' is becoming all too familiar around the country. I realize it can be a pain in the butt for some people to observe rules, regulations & beaurocratic crap but so be it. I, for one, would be disappointed to see the DEH 'officially' close the section of road passing through the Conservation Park, or limit it only to groups like The Friends of the Desert. As you say, if the permits do no more than to justify funding applications - Great, it would justify also the little bit of maintenance the roads do receive. Even if it's only a Toyo trayback towing a mesh of heavy chains to knock the crests off the corrugations. And you were appreciative of the water from the 'butterfly' roofs/tanks- I wonder how and why they were put there. Bearing in mind, most of the permits required have no cost attached (apart from a token charge to DEH if I recall??)
The 'newish' facilities at Dalhousie Springs (for example) were funded with support from complying people purchasing Desert Passes.
In summary- in answer to your question of "Who really cares??" Well, I do- as I've got a lot of travels to do yet, and I'll be really bleep off if a road is inaccessible because 'others' haven't done the right thing!!!!

OK- all the Rednecks can come out of the closet now.....

First my conflict of interest - I have good friends in the Maralinga and related people - but then, I don't think it shades my opinions.

The Unnamed Conservation Park and Maralinga Lands are a new venture for everyone - the Maralinga People, the National Parks (I think the first jointly run park in SA), and the State and Federal Governments.

The UCP has had little investment in it - just like the A-B (in SA anyway).

The old fellas who know about the history of the place, haven't had a chance to take the younger fellas out there and show them what is what - after all they were forcibly removed way back in the '50s. They are remedying that.

The area is in many places pristine - almost untouched - some even from exploration, (although not much) and almost all from European feet, tyres or tracks.

If you just roar on down the AB you probably will miss the interest there - the marble gums, the lakes, the lizards, the art ... and unfortunately if you go off-track you might well miss it too and ruin it for posterity. Not much grows out there - what does takes a long time mostly.

A permit system keeps some track of who has been out there doing what.

So, issuing FREE passes is a way of knowing who goes where and what they are doing. This information helps the rangers know what sort of things people want to do there, so they can improve the park experience for others. It helps the Maralinga people know what sort of tourism ventures they might invest in - an Ilkurlka-like roadhouse, for instance, or an equipped camping ground etc. etc.

If you would like some more interpretative assets in the park - signs, stories, new tracks to interesting places, etc.

If you would like more facilities for travellers ... the maralinga boys have so far built one water stop - they plan on building more.

Then, the permit application process - which in my experience (perhaps not representative) is pretty painless and quite fast, is a small price to pay - and costs you almost nothing.

Their policing of it is pretty ad-hoc, for sure. Is that a problem? Even if you didn't have a permit, I don't think the Maralinga rangers would make life at all hard for you (although their brothers at Yalata, I'm not so sure about). They would still be happy smiling people willing to tell you anything you asked and help you in any way they could.

Like Troop-a-dour, I care. I am always interested and enjoy reading what you (Willem) are doing, but would strongly encourage you to support the system a little more, and encourage it's proper use.

After all, you might just want their help one day when you are out there. The permit might help them know where to find you, or what you are doing.

It's not ideal - for sure. Three or four permits, from three or four different bodies who don't always talk but easily could. An office (Oak Valley) that doesn't answer the phone. Not enough rangers and even they are still learning the ropes. A massive area declared as Conservation Park but with almost no Management Plans.

These are challenges exacerbated by distance, culture and lack of experience but not by desire, will or commitment in my analysis. I am sure that the A-B experience has a lot more to offer in years to come, and I can't wait to see it.

Everyone - give these guys a bit of respect where you can - the history of Maralinga has left a complex legacy, but I find the owners one of the most together and motivated indigenous communities anywhere in the country. With our support they can achieve a lot more, and we can all benefit from it as they do.

Drop me an email if you want to know who to talk to there.

Ciao for now
Andrew.

Thanks for your follow up Andrew. I appreciate what you say but my views are pretty 'one-eyed' about this and I do not detract from them.

I also appreciate that a permit system lets someone know who is out there.... but who takes any notice?

We did not drive off track along the AB, but off track driving in itself is subjective to interpretation as to what the impact may be etc etc.

We can go on for hours going around in circles.......LOL

Cheers

Hi Phil and Troopy above

It is entirely my personal opinion.

If people believe what I say as gospel, the more fool them. I cannot help them.

Personally I do not want to be under the control of anybody. We are led to believe that this must be the norm and a good example is that of the mining industry in WA where you are told in no uncertain terms that they hold the upper hand and that it is a priviledge for you to breathe the same air as them. The Pilbara Shire exudes this same kind of sentiment. The Ngaantjarra Council/Shire is making the same overtures. They want POWER! It makes travel to some of those areas undesirable. But then other 'authorities' and 'instances' are far more relaxed.

The cost of a permit isnt the issue. The system of the permit is.

You are welcome to email me through my website below if you care to discuss this matter at length as for the time being enough has been said here in this thread.

Cheers

Hi Andrew

You went north the same time as we took off to the west. Jude and Jeddah came along this time and friends from darwin as well.

Uncle has recently had a big operation and is fighting fit again. I think however that his 4x4 days are over. His Troopy is rotting away in the long grass.

I think we might be safe from high water in July. Unless................a certain person does another Raindance....lol

Cheers