Fuse on earth wire for Engel
Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 19:29
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Dave198
I picked up an Engel connector plug for my fridge the other day.
There is a 10 amp fuse on both the positive and negative wires.
It is one that I can screw my lead into, so no loose connections.
I am short sighted and can't see the reason for the fuse on the earth wire.
Can someone throw some light on this for me please?
Just curious!
Dave
Reply By: Dave198 - Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 20:36
Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 20:36
I said I picked up a plug, when in fact it was a socket.
Dave
AnswerID:
191689
Reply By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 21:38
Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 21:38
There is absolutely no need for the fuse on the negative wire. If the negative wire somehow touches the body of the car nothing can happen as it is already connected to the body via the battery. However, if the positive wire should somehow touch the body the fuse is there to blow and avoid a short circuit and possibly a fire. The fuse must be as close to the battery as possible so as to protect all the positive wire from trouble.
I hope all that makes sense.
AnswerID:
191698
Follow Up By: Dave198 - Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 22:11
Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 22:11
Thanks Ian, the thing that puzzles me is that this is a genuine Engel part, and it has got a 10 amp fuse on both the positive and negative leads into the socket.
Just wondering why they would do that.
I have also got a blade fuse right up close to the battery as you and others have suggested on this
forum.
Dave
FollowupID:
449567
Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 22:44
Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 22:44
Hello Dave,
The fuse in both legs of an extra low voltage automotive device such as a fridge is a good idea.
Under certain rare faults in your vehicle wiring the fridge or other device could be asked to carry the full starting current of the vehicle. (Also dependant on the way it's wired)
So without sitting down over a beer and some obscure electrical drawings and cat scratchings, it's all good.
Geoff.
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AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Dave198 - Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 22:57
Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 22:57
Thanks Geoff, it is the first time I have encountered this, and I can't recall any previous posts mentioning the case for a fuse on the earth wire.
Nice to know the socket is going to do the job safely.
If you would care to comment again, is there any other device that may possibly benefit from a fuse on the earth apart from the fridge.
I don't intend to go aroung attaching fuses everywhere, but wondering about other devices.
The beer sounds good, the obscure elerctrical drawings would be above my head I am sure, and as for the cat scratchings, back to the beer.
Dave
FollowupID:
449589
Follow Up By: Thylacine - Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 23:05
Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 at 23:05
Sorry Geoff, can't see the logic (perhaps I'm missing something).
Could you describe such a 'fault-conditon' that would be remedied by the second fuse?
ed
FollowupID:
449592
Follow Up By: spinifex - Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 01:00
Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 01:00
We encounter this problem often on work vehicle fitted with battery isolators that switch the negative. Accessories such as two ways, sat phones that are wired direct to the battery provide an alternative earth.
If you try and start the vehicle with the battery switch isolated, presto cranking amps via your sat phone earth.
Incorrect wiring like this often happens on 24 volt systems when the accessories are hard wired to one battery to pick up 12 volts.
Regards
Spinifex
FollowupID:
449609
Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 23:26
Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 23:26
Hi Spinifex - I'm interested to hear more about Isolators that interrupt the Negative.
FollowupID:
449812
Follow Up By: spinifex - Sunday, Sep 03, 2006 at 23:45
Sunday, Sep 03, 2006 at 23:45
Hi Mike
Tryed to send you a message but to no avail, still learning this
forum stuff.
They are a lockable isolation switch used on mining equipment, complete with a green telltale LED. Robust and very reliable but quite expensive.
Can get you the exact details when I return to work.
Send me a message if you know how and I will reply to that.
Regards
Spinifex
FollowupID:
450428
Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 07:57
Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 07:57
Dave,
I may be easier to understand if you don't refer to the negative wire as an earth wire but a return wire. The socket circuit may, or may not, use the vehicle body or chassis as a return path to the negative terminal of the battery. This will depend whether the circuit for the socket uses two wires (black & red) and whether they run all the way to the battery terminals. It cannot be compared to an earth wire when related to domestic 240 volt AC electricity, which provides an alternative safety circuit to "ground". (With domestic 240 volt AC, the neutral link is grounded, (earthed) at the switch board end)
It certainly won't do any harm to leave it as is and will give added protection to your fridge in an abnormal situation.
AnswerID:
191752
Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 08:31
Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 08:31
Fusing of the Earth lead is of an appliance is only helpful IF -
1. The device's earth lead runs directly back to the battery (not to the body)
2. The device has another earth connection to the bodywork e.g. via a radio aerial cable.
Then IF the Battery-to-body cable fails, starter current will flow from engine to body to radio to battery.
If you have a metal cased fridge and the case is in contact with the cars bodywork, you would also have this fault-current path.
AnswerID:
191764
Reply By: HJ60-2H - Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 16:15
Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 16:15
The classic example of this type of earth or return fault that you see frequently are trailer lights. Ever see the brakes lights flash with the indicators or indicator lights light up when the brakes are applied?
This is because the 12V is finding it's own way back to the battery by the lowest resistance path. It doesn't care how much you paid for the device that offers the lowest resistance to the battery, so if your $3.5K
HF radio or $1.5K fridge is it then that is what it will use. Fusing the negative of the fridge etc provides some protection against this.
Worst case, as explained above, is if the starter motor deceides to push its very high current through something. Then there will be smoke followed by tears.
AnswerID:
191841