Helton shower units

Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 21:47

ThreadID: 37275 Views:5891 Replies:7 FollowUps:12

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drinky

Just bought a Helton hot shower unit for our 2003 3.0L Patrol can anyone tell me does the temperature control valve stop the flow when not in use.

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Reply By: Member - Ian W (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 21:58

Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 21:58

I think your Helton Unit works on the same principle as the Twine/Piranah etc:, that is you feed you shower water through a heat exchanger. If thats the case then NO the temperature control will not stop water flow, it will just vary the temperature. All of the above units I have seen together with my own have a slide button or switch on the shower handpiece which regulates water flow.
A word of advice. Don't shut the water flow off at the handpiece for any length of time, when you turn it back on you are going to be in for a surprise when you get a burst of steam from the shower rose

Ian

AnswerID: 191911

Reply By: Eric Experience. - Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 22:08

Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 22:08

Drinky.
These units are made from copper, it is not wise to permanently plum them into a vehicle with an all aluminium cooling system because they cause corrosion, the part that fails first is the heater core. The manufacturers are not making any attempt to produce an aluminium unit, some one has to take a stand on this and insist that they change to aly before some vehicle dies in a remote area causing risk to life. Will you be that person to take a stand? Eric.

AnswerID: 191912

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 22:41

Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 22:41

Geez Eric, You sure know how to worry a bloke!!!

I've had my Twine plumbed up to the heater lines of my Patrol for 6 years now and have done just over 200,000klm in that time. I never bothered to use isolating taps etc on mine and (touch wood), haven't had an issue ....yet.

People should know that if they have a problem with their heater hoses/core etc, it is a relatively simple proceedure to totally isolate the heating system. Simply use a short piece of the heater hose and plumb it between the inlet and outlet. You won't be able to have a hot shower or keep the car's cabin warm for the rest of that trip, but it could save your life (or at least get your car back on the road).

Cheers

Roachie

FollowupID: 449802

Follow Up By: Eric Experience. - Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 23:26

Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 23:26

Roachie.
You and I know how to do that, but we have to remember that there are people out there who have died because they did not know how to lock there front hubs. A local radiator repairer is getting more than one per week with this problem,a lot of government vehicles that have hand washing set-ups that use the same heat exchanger, but the manufactures are not taking any responsibility. Eric

FollowupID: 449813

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 07:55

Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 07:55

Eric, What time frame are the "govt vehicles", radiators failing. Most Govt vehicles are only kept a year or so. My old Patrol is 1999 with an original aluminium radiator and no signs of failure and has had a copper heat exchange on since new. My 2003 patrol is 3 years old , no problems and the heat exchange is 600mm long, double the normal length so twice the normal exposure. I did notice Glind mentioned this on their web site, it may be true but makes you wonder to what extent and or the real time frame of which a failure can occur. Michael

FollowupID: 449822

Follow Up By: Eric Experience. - Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 22:00

Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 22:00

Michael.
These government vehicles are about 2 years old but are not patrols. The major determinant of time frame would be the use or lack of corrosion inhibitor, one of the advantages of an all aly system is that the inhibitor is cheaper and lasts longer. There are inhibitors that are designed to work on mixed metals like cars with an aly head and a copper radiator, these inhibitors don't last long and must be changed every year. If you have ever had a car with an aly head and a copper radiator you will have noticed that the thermostat housing corrodes very fast if the inhibitor is not up to date. From what you say you must be servicing your cooling system very effectively. Another factor is climate, in Victoria it is not unusual for a vehicle to be left with the heater water valve open for long periods, so more corrosion can occur.In the case of these government vehicles the hand washer is on 24/7. Eric

FollowupID: 449923

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Sep 01, 2006 at 10:07

Friday, Sep 01, 2006 at 10:07

Eric, now you are saying its lack of maintenance is the main reason these vehicles radiators are failing. If you dont service the engine oil and filters, fuel filters, air cleaner, make sure diffs are topped up, change spark plugs, the list goes on, you will get failures. If people are silly enough to be driving around in the outback without a maintained vehicle, they will most certainly run into trouble. Possibly the manufacturers could mention about maintaining coolant levels in the cooling system water, even though it is part of normal servicing, but you can hardly blame them for poor maintenance of other poeples vehicles. regards, Michael

FollowupID: 449973

Reply By: Tim HJ61 (WA) - Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 23:58

Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 at 23:58

Eric,

Heat exchangers are popular for vege oil conversions, you don't need to use ones designed for shower units - albeit a good Aussie made one like Helton.
See my installation at Site Link

The heat exchanger is nickel plated I think, or maybe stainless can't remember, and if I want to stop using vege oil one day, I could use the same heat exchanger for a shower unit if I felt like it.

Check on ebay for heat exchangers, or google some of the vege oil sites. Not sure who in Aussie sells these off the shelf. I bought mine through the WA renewable fuels association which I'm a member.

Tim

AnswerID: 191928

Reply By: Tony from Helton Heat Exchangers - Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 09:02

Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 09:02

Hi ya gang
Eric I feel you are a little ill informed in what you are saying, the problem is electrolisis and will only occur if the copper is in direct contact with alluminium.
If you we to mount a heat exchanger to the head then this may occur. a good example is the corosion seen around the thermostat housing as the brass (copper)reacts with the ally housing. In a good install the HE would be mounted to the body and conected to the engine by rubber hoses, electricly isolating the unit. I would also assume that any later model vehicle and especialy one with ally head or radiator would be using a good corosion inhibitor which are all electrically non conductive. Pesonaly I have never heard of such a failure and you need to remember there is a lot of copper in an engine to start with, and much is in contact with the head especially, thermostats,head gaskets welsh plugs ect.
Those I know in the radiator game blame most failures on poor maintenance and especaly corosion inhibitors or the lack there of
Cheers
Tony

AnswerID: 191946

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 12:03

Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 12:03

Tony, I read on the internet a few months ago that about 95 % of modern cars (last 10 years), have Aluminium radiators. If this copper thing was an issue, there would be a lot more discussion about the problem and the failures. If the copper was migrating through the coolant , the outer side of the copper coils would be bright, just like new copper tube. But even with good coolant, the tubes go dull, no migration. I'm sure Glind mention this as a selling point to put some doubt in the minds of customers considering an alternative unit to theirs. Michael

FollowupID: 449841

Follow Up By: Tony from Helton Heat Exchangers - Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 13:29

Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 13:29

To true Michael
Early on we swaped some our own units for new ones so we could pull them apart looking for electrolisis and and any signs of failure and as you said all had a tarnished look inside. no sign of anything wrong at all. I understand though that the glinds have a plastic body but a copper coil inside so maybee just a marketing thing
Out of thousands sold no one has ever come back to us with this problem nor any other.
Cheers

FollowupID: 449853

Follow Up By: David from David and Justine Olsen's 4WD Tag-Along - Friday, Sep 01, 2006 at 19:59

Friday, Sep 01, 2006 at 19:59

When I am not running tours, I am contracted to a major water treatment company as a Senior Water Management Specialist. The copper aluminium issue is of no concern if the two parts are seperated, and you run normal cooling system inhibitor. If you don't run inhibitor, then theoretically you could run into problems, but they would be relatively minor compared to other corrosion issues you may face in the cooling system from poor maintenence. The best advice I can give, and this applies even if you have no copper in your system -unlikely as some temperature sensors in alloy engines are brass which is a metal alloy of copper and zinc- is to drain the coolant each year and replace with fresh water treated with inhibitor.

FollowupID: 450106

Reply By: Grizzle - Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 10:30

Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 10:30

I have just bought Helton for my 4.2 Patrol but have not fitted it yet. My understanding is that the Heat Exchanger is plumbed across the heater hoses (Parallel) and not in line. This means that you turn off your heater to get full flow through the Helton. The valve is installed in line with the heat exchanger (I will install my valve on the return side of the exchanger to restrict flow whilst not starving the exchanger of water) will then adjust the flow through the heat exchanger to give you temperature adjustment. If you turned the valve off it would stop flow through the heat exchanger without affecting your heater controls.

Cheers

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AnswerID: 191962

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Sep 01, 2006 at 07:57

Friday, Sep 01, 2006 at 07:57

Grizzle. thats correct, the heater knob turned to cold but you will find depending on the restriction throught the exchanger, it doesnt make too much difference. Michael

FollowupID: 449948

Reply By: DMH122 - Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 13:29

Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 13:29

Hi i had a HELTON on my 3.0l str nav for 40,000km with no sign of a problem & will be fitting to my new stx if it ever gets here.

AnswerID: 191988

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 15:11

Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 15:11

Its on the slow boat from China!! OOOpppss i mean Japan...

FollowupID: 449866

Follow Up By: DMH122 - Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 18:04

Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 18:04

Michael a slow boat from Spain,the ship docked sunday night @ Sydney.

FollowupID: 449885

Reply By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 20:23

Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 at 20:23

Hi Drinky
Have had a helton unit for about 2 years and I have fitted it with small brass taps, so when i use it i can isolate all other hoses and direct all hot water through heat exchanger so it is very efficient.
I also dont bother with regulating it, just set it circulating full flow with shower head in the bucket, and when it reaches the right temp, just turn engine off and have your shower, this way it doesnt get hotter as you go along.
20 L of cold water with cold engine, 6cyl diesel, takes about 10-12 minutes to reach shower temp.
Then when the next one comes for theirs just crank engine over again and it only takes a few minutes to bring the next lot of cold back up to temp required, simple operation and no fuss.
Very happy with my choice of heat exchanger.

Cheers Pesty

AnswerID: 192045