Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 00:26
Hi Don,
I know once bitten, twice shy but believe it or not, you are the only owner reported series III 3.0TD failure to date. Even the fabled 4.2TD has had an engine failure when quite new and required a total engine replacement, look at your last post.
As you say, research is the key here and if you look back thru the archive posts you will see where people who have had both the 3.0TD and the 4.2TD, they prefer the 3.0TD for towing, especially if an auto (the 3.0TD lacks a bit of punch right down low when in manual guise - nothing that cannot be fixed with a Dtronic).
Also, the archilles heal of the 4.2TD is overheating. Again check the archives and see all the posts. Or ask Roachie just how much he has done and still hasn't solved the overheating issue!
I agree the series II had issues and I wouldn't recommend anyone buying one, but that doesn't take away from the fact that there are many, many series II with high mileage and no problems. But the series III is different and they have been out 4 years now with just your reported failure (there has been other hearsay reports, one I heard of where the sump plug came out!). But the series II had many failures, the first within 6 months of release, and that engine was recalled and replaced in Europe - still don't know how Nissan Australia got away with a shortened dipstick here!!!
As for the engine being stressed, you as an engineer would know that displacment can have nothing to do with critical stresses, bearing loads are much more important, amongst other design factors (I too am an engineer). Other diesel 3.0TD's are generating over 500Nm of torque from the factory and the ZD30 motor is used in many Renault trucks in Europe.
Virtually all sledging of the 3.0TD's is from non-owners, with most owners loving their 3.0TD. One can say that we have a vested interest saying they are good (re-sale value), but in my case I will get a new 4WD every 3 years and don't have to worry about re-sale as my work picks up the tab (lucky yes, but thats the facts).
Having said all that, I will most likely not buy another 3.0TD, not because I don't reckon they are great, but simply because I will try something different. But I reckon you should make a decision on facts (the engineer in us) rather than emotion and hearsay from the ludlites on this
forum.
But then again, if my series III did fail, even if it was the only one, I too would most likely shy away from it. But if considering the GU4.2TD, research the overheating issue if you are towing and draw your own conclusions. One thing is certain, everyone on this
forum certainly has their own opinion and its why it is such a great resource. But one does have to sort the wheat from the chaff!!!
Cheers
Captain
PS. Keep it up with Nissan, they will probably come to the party eventually but you will need to keep the pressure up without getting angry with them. I had a minor issue with my rear brake light cover. After no luck regarding warranty I sent an email to Japan.
Well ~5 weeks later I have a call from Nissan Australia and bottom line is my vehicle is now booked in to get fixed and being met by customer relationship manager when it does (would have booked in earlier but overseas for a few weeks for work).
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Follow Up By: Peter McG (Member, Melbourne) - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 09:13
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 09:13
Captain,
What's the email for Japan? I am still waiting for a response on the "loss of the right rear wheel" issue. My dealer has been great but Nissan Australia?
Cheers
Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:10
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:10
Hi Peter,
I got the email address off this
forum, after another member reported a similair response to me. The address I used was "nissan-ir@mail.nissan.co.jp" I was suprised to get a phone call from Nissan Australia after many weeks of nothing, definetly felt that they were concerned about the fact I contacted Japan direct.
Anyway, the Nissan Australia dude had my local dealer customer manager ring me and she was doing some talking. Might be the fact that I am due a new vehicle next month and the fact I told Nissan Japan that too (but going to wait for the new 2007 models... like the sound of a V8 diesel cruiser or a H3 Hummer - if in diesel).
Anyway, send off an email and see how you go.
Cheers
Captain
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Follow Up By: jorgejhandal - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:16
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:16
He is not the only one having aseries 3 patrol engine failure.
mine was 2004 and failed .
About the email of japan, can you provide me with the email I would like to contact nissan directly in japan to let them know about some problems with my other cars,
thanks
jorge
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:20
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:20
jorge, dont bring facts in to this.
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:27
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:27
Hi Jorge,
I was referring to series III failures within Australia. As discussed in your original post, there were many theories put forward. But even so, that does make 2 owner reported series III worldwide, not a bad statistic anyway and still less than 4.2TD failures ;)
Cheers
Captain
PS. I am currently in Chile for work at the moment, not that far from you if I remember correctly.
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:33
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:33
A neat trick to discover the e-mail address of senior executives in a company which has worked
well for me before (had the VP of Zilog batting very nicely for me :) is to first establish the e-mail format for the company by some Google work, ensure you get 3 or 4 examples, eg. Nissan Japan might beornote the use, or otherwise, of capital letters, it probably won't matter but it might.
Next Google for the sort of person you want, eg "nissan japan customer relations vice president" (don't use quotes) it shouldn't take long before you discover that the Director of Sales (or whoever?) is Yossi Moto - so you now have the e-mail address of- go tell him your problem! :)
Of course they may publish e-mail addresses on the company web site, but I doubt it.
Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:35
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:35
Ignore post above - bloody
forum filters e-mail addresses enclosed in chevrons! Try again:
A neat trick to discover the e-mail address of senior executives in a company which has worked
well for me before (had the VP of Zilog batting very nicely for me :) is to first establish the e-mail format for the company by some Google work, ensure you get 3 or 4 examples, eg. Nissan Japan might be [Fred.Smith@nissan.co.jp] or [Peter.Jones@nissan.co.jp] note the use, or otherwise, of capital letters, it probably won't matter but it might.
Next Google for the sort of person you want, eg "nissan japan customer relations vice president" (don't use quotes) it shouldn't take long before you discover that the Director of Sales (or whoever?) is Yossi Moto - so you now have the e-mail address of [Yossi.Moto@nissan.co.jp] - go tell him your problem! :)
Of course they may publish e-mail addresses on the company web site, but I doubt it.
Mike Harding
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Follow Up By: scottcamp - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:38
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:38
Hi Guys,
jorgejhandal are you the same person who reported 4 Discovery 3 failures? Without sounding offensive wherever you come from has got some serious servicing problems. The Discovery 3 has its typical share of problems. I come from the Land of Landrovers, obviously they are the best 4x4 on the planet! We have more discovery 3's than most countrys and i have yet to hear of ONE engine failure, and i mean we beast these machines to death. So why do i drive a patrol, apart form it being a great car, i am waiting on the new Defender in a year. whats wrong with you australians can you not recognise superior engineering. Afterall 80% of Africa, that was the first car they seen the DEFENDER :-)
But all joking aside 4 Dicovery failures, your having a laugh.
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Follow Up By: scottcamp - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:51
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 10:51
Hi Guys,
I forgot the FOUR discover failures happened before 1500
Miles. EVEN Landrover are not that bad :-).
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Follow Up By: Off-track - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:06
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:06
How can you seriously say that there are only two series III or later 3.0TD failures reported? Not everyone who owns one posts to this
forum. There may
well be others (almost a given) but I dare say that my opinion would be that there wont be nearly as many as reported in the series II.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:13
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:13
G'day Captain.......
Just one small point of order, if I may, please. Neither my 4.2 nor any of those about which I know (or have read), has ever actually "overheated". I have consistently used the term "over-warming". I know this sounds like it's splitting hairs, but the term "overheating" tends to conjour-up the sight of a vehicle pulled over on the side of the road with the bonnet up and some poor hapless mongrel standing at arms length, trying to get the radiator cap off with steam gushing all over the place.
To my knowledge, the 4.2's "over-warming" issue (note I do not use the term "problem" either) has never led to a vehicle being stranded. Indeed, Nissan have said all along that it is quite okay to still drive the vehicle (any vehicle I suppose) when the temp needle heads across to the right; so long as it doesn't go into that final section I refer to as "the danger zone". I have also had it said to me many times that a diesel engine needs to operate at a decent temperature to be efficient. The highest
mine has ever got to (according to the VDO gauge who's sender unit is mounted halfway along the top radiator hose) is 118oC and I am given to understand that about 126oC is when one needs to get really concerned.
I did read in one of the recent posts on here that a 4.2TD failed very early in it's life. I don't have any details of that failure....it is totally out of character and for all we know, some yobbo forgot to put any oil in the sump at the factory...hehehe.
I personally know of one bloke on this
forum (g'day Craig) who has gone from a 3L to a 4.2TDi.....and couldn't be happier (he even reckons the new one feels more powerful, but that's just a
seat-of-the-pants analysis I guess).
I still feel "worried" when I see the factory temp gauge go above half way; despite "knowing" that is entirely acceptable and 'normal' for this heavy lumpy motor.
I am not trying to fuel the long-standing debate about the 3L v 4.2L motors; I just wanted to clarify that point about "over-heating' v "over-warming".....
Cheers and I hope you're enjoying your time overseas.....it'll make you appreciate Aust even more when you return.....
Cheers
Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - Craig D (SA) - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:37
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 11:37
Couldn't be happier? Now that's an understatement - I'm rapped!!!!
For Example:
After driving the 3L for six years I take the new 4.2 with 4k on the clock to one of my usual haunts - the torque-sapping Mallee dunes and talcum poweder soft sand.
My 4.2 out-climbed my old faithful at every
hill, it beat the petrol 80-series I'd tried to keep up with (let alone out-do it) for all those years, it pulled harder than my mates V8 100 series with lockers (hah-hah) and it didn't need to be slaughtered through it's rev range to do it. Happy - YEP :)
Anything else? Yeah - no more bloody reliability worries (I have a very long printed history of the bit of chite if ya interested) where I as car-less for months on end.
Okay there must be some downsides. Yes. The 4.2 is a bit slower than the 3 taking off, but once up at hwy speeds there's not much difference. The 4.2 does use more ful but it has two extra pots now doesn't it.
Here's a funny downside (if ya can call it that) - at highway cruising speeds I can't hear the bloody donk!
Three Litre with Dtronic vs 4.2 tdi with 3" zorst and dump = I'll take the 4.2 thanks!
Don't mean to sound overly biased, but after having owned both I think I qualify to have an opinion.
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Follow Up By: dj Patrol - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 15:05
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 15:05
Hi Roachie, The 4.2TD failure is an still is
mine YES it did have oil in it,It was filling my garage full of blue smoke on cold start up and I mean FULL from new at 700km Nissan were involved.To get to the point without going through months of haggeling with the Dealership that I brought it from(new nothing about diesels) I rang one in
Sydney and Service Manager told me to take it down within no time he was tremendous he was straight into Nissan and after changing Injectors and Pump trial, was left overnight in workshop I took keys home Next mourning we all had a big meet with all the Head Sharrangs from Nissan and as START up was near I handed the keys to the workshop forman he proceeded to start the engine and BINGO filled the workshop with smoke nobody could se each other all looking at each other and speechless,So they turned to the service manager and told him they would orginised a short motor from Japan, 3 months later I got the patrol back as driving up the driveway the clutch was slipping and shuddering so I stopped and got service manager .Yep had to order a new clutch from Japan another six weeks.I had a loan car all this time, dj patrol
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Follow Up By: dj Patrol - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 15:16
Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 15:16
May have been one in a million but I got it,,
Now I love this old beast just chugs along with the van 2.5 ton no worries
have done 108000, now no problems so I would reccomend the 4.2TD to anyone but hurry they are being deleted I belive next year.What a shame Mabey too good.
Another thing I was passed heading down to
Coober Pedy by a 3 litre in 2001 with around the same size van in tow I was sitting on 100kph and he zoomed pass me and off into the distance NO WONDER some of them are blowing up just cant treat them like that.
Hav a nice day dj patrol
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 13:13
Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 13:13
Hi Roachie,
Point taken, but I have read a lot of posts where people say they stop / slow down etc... so its not allowing driving as desired. But agree I have yet to hear an engine expire because its overheated while driving (I don't count blown hoses, holed radiators etc...).
And don't get me wrong, I reckon the 4.2TD is arguably the best 4WD engine for a vehicle thats offroad and going slow in low range. The Toyota 4.2TD has only marginally more punch than a 3.0TD at low revs, even the 1HZ non-turbo has noticeably more bottom end grunt (talking idle speeds).
But going slow in 4WD low range is not done by all and hence other engines are better all-rounders, depending on what you do. While I love to get out in the bush, I unfortunately don't get out and about as much as I would like. Hence my nicely kitted out 4WD is more often a toorak taxi (hear scruby shouting in the background...). But the 3.0TD is in its element, it has great acceleration in city traffic, I get over 1,000kms between refills and it used to tow my 1.6T van like it wasn't there (have seen 140km on speedo when overtaking with van- was suprised as speed obtained and did not realise as busy getting past road train). And the Dtronic has significantly improved the bottom end, its just great on the sand and most other
places (but still rather my 80 series for low range idleing ability).
I suppose its just too much to ask that others open their eyes and see the many advantages of the 3.0TD. In fact, i reckon the 3.0TD suits the vast majority of Nissan drivers better, its only the "real" 4WD's who frequent this
forum that need the 4.2TD offroad prowress. But Nissan must take a big slice of that blame as they allowed the series II to destroy the good reputation the series III deserves.
Over here in Chile, all 4WD's are diesel and hardly seen anything bigger than a 2.5TD (exception is Hilux 3.0TD). The Navara here is old shape but new 2.5TD motor. And on the minesite I am at, there would be 10 Navara's to 1 hilux, they are the preffered vehicle (all vehicles must be <2 years old to be on-site and CANNOT be white - due to snow).
Cheers
Captain
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