Fuel price difference

Submitted: Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:07
ThreadID: 38040 Views:2556 Replies:12 FollowUps:14
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I was wondering if anyone would be able to explain to me the reason for the unusual difference in cents per litre between unleaded and diesel fuel. The local Caltex dealer I attend (Maryong, a suburb of Sydney) had a difference of 18 cents per litre. This seems to be a common occurrence during periods of price fluctuation. I thought, perhaps naively, that diesel was cheaper to produce.
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Reply By: The Landy - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:15

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:15
Yep, if you didn't get the marketing discount on petrol it would probably be 10-15 cents higher and in line with the price of diesel.

This is becoming like an old chestnut on this forum, isn't it time we either paid the price and lived with it, or sell the 4WD.

Not a go at you Allen, just that it seems this comes up daily.........
AnswerID: 196428

Follow Up By: Moose - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:25

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:25
Agree with you Landy - it's becoming a tad tiresome this question. But then again I ain't complaining cause I'm driving a petrol so seeing that differential at the bowser is fine by me :-).
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Follow Up By: Outnabout David (SA) - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:28

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:28
No we shouldn't have to put up with it. 18 cents a litre diffrence is crap. Why not use price averaging ie a bit more on the ULP and take a bit off the Diesel.

or better still I will be happy to pay extra when I pull into a servo with ten diesel pumps to chose from and only one ULP. I am sick of queueing all the time. When there are so many diesels on the road why haven't they increased the bowsers?
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Follow Up By: Leroy - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:44

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:44
'Why not use price averaging ie a bit more '

why not subsidise for average fuel consumption as well incase you have a vehicle that uses less that someone's who uses more!

Leroy
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 19:51

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 19:51
David,

Go bush mate, no ques at the diesel bowsers out there. Also get the bonus of paying similar price diesel and petrol.

Any excuse will do me to get out there. LOL

Regards, Trevor.
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Follow Up By: andyhilux - Monday, Oct 02, 2006 at 10:20

Monday, Oct 02, 2006 at 10:20
I have read that this 18cpl difference is because of a government levy brought in instead of taxing the truckers as they kicked up a stink when they tried it. This is over and above the same taxes bruoght on other fuels already.
I may be wrong
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Reply By: DavidT - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:26

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:26
Just spent the day driving around Sydney the prices for diesel went between as low as 1.29 to 1.45 and at some places it was 30 cents dearer than unleaded.

Why cant the ACC see this as well what a raught.

regards
Dave T
AnswerID: 196429

Reply By: feral - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:40

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:40
Now that the government is so compliant in keeping ULP users happy why don't we pressure your local member of paliament and ask them 'What are you going to do for me?'

They will soon get the message and tell the ACCC to investigate something atleast on why the difference.

Cheer.
AnswerID: 196433

Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:40

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 16:40
Noticed on the weekend around Brisy that diesel seems to be dropping in relation to ULP, only (!!!!) about 9 to 12 cents a litre difference now instead of 15 to 20.
Interesting.
AnswerID: 196434

Reply By: Barnesy - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 17:36

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 17:36
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the government give a subsidy for commercial diesel users? If the cost of diesel is higher then the gov get more tax from it and therefore less they have to pay out of their coffers for the subsidy?

Maybe they want more tax from it that's why they got rid of the subsidy for biodiesel. Just my little theory based on an unhealthy level of cynicism.

Barnesy
AnswerID: 196441

Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 20:01

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 20:01
Hi Barnesy

Perhaps your unhealthy level of cynicism blinds you to the facts.

The government levies fuel tax on the quantity, that is litres sold. It does not recieve any more (or less) based on the price at the pump.

Therein lies one of the big issues in this daily debate - misinformation.
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Follow Up By: Barnesy - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 20:15

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 20:15
I said it was my own little theory. The truth is only CEO's of the huge oil companies and governmets really know why and will they tell us?

My missus' old man is a farmer and wants to use biodiesel for his trucks and machinery but the government won't subsidise it (if I understand correctly what he was telling me). So he is stuck with subsidised dinodiesel. He would much rather support local growers rather than the big oil companies.

Do you know why they got rid of biodiesel subsidies Landy?

Barnesy
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 21:18

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 21:18
Barnesy

You ask do I know why they got rid of biodiesel subsidies.

What I do know is that they there are still subsidies available for alternative fuels. Under the Energy Grants (Credits) Scheme for the use of alternative fuels (including bio-diesel), fuel grants still apply until June 2010. They are progressively decreased over this period on an annual basis. After this date they begin to incur a fuel tax, but also become eligible for a fuel tax credit offset by a road user charge. It appears you pay a tax up to the equivalent of the road user charge.

There is plenty of information readily available on the fuel tax credit system. It seems your Missus’s father might be missing out on something here.'I'll leave you to do your own research, but I'd suggest you have a look at the information available from the Department of Treasury

Nothing wrong with a healthy dose of cynicism, just don't let it blind you to the facts....

Good luck

Landy
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Reply By: Exploder - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 17:59

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 17:59
Search is you Friend.

Yes there is a price difference
There are a couple of reasons for this
There is a load of conspiracy theories out there about why there is a price difference
What can you do about it personally> Absolutely sweet F**K all
What can we do as a country> get more diesel cars on the road.
AnswerID: 196450

Reply By: Steve - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 19:07

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 19:07
LPG has gone up 50% in the last 12 months where I live.
AnswerID: 196465

Reply By: South - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 20:26

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 20:26
Diesel apparentely gets your further... You can't have the best of both worlds!
AnswerID: 196491

Reply By: Member - Jeff H (QLD) - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 20:57

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 20:57
Why not?
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Follow Up By: South - Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 21:02

Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 21:02
Let me paraphrase... you cant have your cake, and eat it too...
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Reply By: PhilZD30Patrol - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 09:54

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 09:54
Sadly the problem is that we Aussies are just to easy going and prepared to accept things.

I know that being ripped off by oil companies is very boring, but we can do something about it.

The simple basic facts;

1. In Britain, Eastern and Western Europe and SE Asia, diesel retails at between 10% and 20% less than ULP. My family have been to these countries in the last 18 months.

2. In Britain and Eastern and Western Europe, hi-tech diesels are encouraged because they burn less fossil fuel and are very effective in reducing green house gas and noxious gas emissions.

3. Australian Governments do not really give a stuff about global warming, green house gas emissions, depletion of fossil fuels or pollution in general as there are NO votes in it.

4. What makes Australia great is that we are laid back, easy going, tolerant and willing accept things as they are. Unfortunately, our culture doesn't help us in the long term.

What can we do? Very little as individuals but a few thousand people is a large crowd.

We can all write a polite, hand written letter to our local sitting state and federal members, Labor, Liberal or National.

Explain to them that Governments must force Oil Companies to reduce diesel costs to about 10% to 20% below ULP.

Tell your local member that if they don't take action then, at the next election, you will distribute your preferential votes as follows;

- All independents will get your 1st, 2nd and 3rd, etc. preferences;

- minor parties will get your next preferences;

- the major party candidate challenging the member will get your 2nd last preference, and

- the sitting member will be right at the very bottom of the list of your preferences.

If a few 1,000 letters like this went to the local members, regardless of Political Party allegiances, they might just get a little nervous and do something.

All it takes is for a few thousand people, each writing one short letter to your local state and federal member and Senators.

Keep on 4wding in your diesel
regards
Phil
AnswerID: 196592

Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 11:25

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 11:25
Hi Phil

To expand on your facts; in the countries you quote upwards of 50% of vehicles on the road are diesel, in Australia the number is somewhere between 5-10%.Therein lies a large part of the problem, ULP users have far greater clout when it comes to extracting marketing discounts.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 16:56

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 16:56
Hi Phil,

Even if we the public were able (unlikely as it is) to get the govt. to force fuel companies into reducing diesel price by 20%. What makes you think the fuel companies will give a rats? Total turnover of fuel in Aust. works out to about 1% of Exxon's turnover in the US. So please tell me why even one fuel company would give a ...... They could wipe us off the supply list and give the diesel to someone else willing to pay the price they wish to sell it for and not hurt their bottom line by $1. Just my uneducated thought on the subject.

As long as there is diesel, regardless of price, I will do as you say "Keep on 4wding in your diesel".

Cheers, Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Barnesy - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 17:21

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 17:21
That's correct Trevor. We've seen it before the Oz government cowtowing to the big oil companies. I had my own little theory above and yes Landy I knew i was probably wrong but they bull crap to us so i didn't care.

Who has more world wide power, the CEO of Exxon/Mobil or Johnny? I want to produce my own biodiesel when I'm satisfied I know enough about it.

Watched enough rope the other week when Al Gore was on, they showed an advert sponsored by Exxon saying that an excess of co2 in the atmosphere is good for us! This doesn't appear to be a multinational with a conscience.

Barnesy
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 19:33

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 19:33
Hi JB (presuming you are the original Barnsey hehehe),

I agree with all what you say above when referencing Exxon as a multinational without conscience and the Aus govt. cowtowing to oil companies. You also wanted to know who has more world wide power, the CEO of Exxon or Johnny, well I have my opinions on this and Johnny comes in a very distant second in that comparison. If he didn't shake hands with Bushy every other week I would think Johnny wouldn't even make it on to a scale of any worldwide importance when talking about world issues.

My opinion only and I respect differential opinions of others on this.

Regards, Trevor.
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Reply By: PhilZD30Patrol - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 20:42

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 20:42
I have read the emails from those who a sympathetic to the reason why the oil companies have to charge more for diesel.

It doesn't all make sense because;

1. From the 1950's until very recently diesel in Australia was the same as other countries, i.e. 10% to 20% cheaper than petrol.

2. About 18 months or so ago diesel increased, in Australia only, to about 10% more expensive than petrol. There is no obvious reason for this sudden change.

3. Diesel use in Australia is not minor compared to petrol, it is huge. Just travel the Hume Highway any night to see the diesel transports. Plus there are all of the farm, mining and industrial machinery that use diesel.

I really suspect that the oil companies are using retail diesel buyers to subsidise the large corporate diesel users and that our state and federal politicians are quiet happy for this to continue as long as it does not make any difference to their votes on election day.

This is not about Liberals, Nationals and Labor as they are as bad as each other when it comes to standing up to large international business. Politicians and their families don't buy fuel for their transport, tax payers provide it through the politicians electoral allowances.

The only way is to kick siting members out after 1 or 2 terms so that they loose their huge salaries, superannuation and lerks and perks.

Regards
Phil
AnswerID: 196686

Follow Up By: Barnesy - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 21:27

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 21:27
I respect what you're saying Phil, I too think that diesel is used far more than many give credit for. Personally I think the long-term future (beyond my years) lies in having cars run on solar. Maybe not as relevant for Europe but very relevant for Oz.

But then I start thinking why would any company produce a car with minimal running costs? Even if they did the company would become huge and then possibly act greedily too and be just as bad as others?

One of the new dilemmas with globalisation I suppose. The solution, more individual rights and a greater say for each individual would help.

Barnesy
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Reply By: NUTS! - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 22:04

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 22:04
Its simple.......

Oil companies jack up the price of diesel to subsidise the price of ULP.

15cents more per litre of diesel lets them take 3 or 4 cents off the price of ULP, of which they sell a lot more of, and make more profit through volume.

In case this sounds like I'm bias I found this on several of the major fuel companies web sites.....look it up......In case this sounds like im p1ssed off with this unjustice.....I am! it should be the other way around!

NUTS!
AnswerID: 196713

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