Surge Protector

Submitted: Monday, Sep 25, 2006 at 21:50
ThreadID: 38051 Views:2840 Replies:6 FollowUps:7
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Hi all, just wondering is there any certain surge protector to buy to run off the generator, saw some at bunnings for $15 4 outlets with surge protection with a reset button on the end of it or should I be looking at a different type. Regards Steve M
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 01:13

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 01:13
Stephen,

You shouldn't need surge protection.
It would be very unlikely for a small generator to give a power surge.

Surge protection is very practical to protect sensitive equipment connected to the normal household supply because a surge can be caused by mutiple things, such as lightening somewhere on the power grid, or a transformer chitting itself, or some other malfunction at the power station, or even a vehicle coming into contact with a power pole.

A portable generator however is immune from this sort of impact and unless the engine is suddenly fed nitrous oxide causing the engine to increase its speed considerably, your pretty safe mate.
Bill


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AnswerID: 196564

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 07:59

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 07:59
Hi there Sand Man, yeah I was more concerned with the power supply as some people have mentioned on here that there generator has actually at some stage pumped out more than the 240 required resulting in some thing been damaged or is this a totally different thing and not classed as a surge and would not be protected by the above mentioned board ?? Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 454854

Reply By: Wizard1 - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 07:39

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 07:39
Get a surge protector....although "most" generators are unlikely to spike, you never know what might happen. Also some act as a residual current device for upto 30 seconds which may allow you to switch stuff off, like computers if it suddenly stops.

We use one of the Bunnings type at home due to the power problems here in SE QLD during the storms which ended up shortening the life of our computer's power system.

Like carrying a second spare, its better to have some insurance than none.

AnswerID: 196571

Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 13:49

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 13:49
Gday Stephen

I don't know how good the bunnings jobbie would be, but I would recomend 1. We fry a bit of stuff every now and then, so the computer is on one all the time at home. I was warned a while back about the cheap 2 stroke gennies and spikes - when they run out of fuel some rev a lot higher as they die - My old lawnmower did this, so it may be just a 2 stroke problem.

Cheers Andrew
AnswerID: 196619

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 15:31

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 15:31
Howdy Andrew, yes its a bunnings GMC special 2300watts like to run the fridge and laptop off it but have read on here about the spikes that you can get and also giving more voltage then it should although I have seen no sign of that YET. Ours is the 4 stroke not 2 so it just dies down when running out of fuel unlike as you said the 2 stroke my mates does that when its running the last of the fuel out it revs for the last couple of seconds. I have just renewed the fridge with a weaco so dont want to blow it up as wife will shoot me. Mind you the gennie is more for her hair dryer and running the microwave more than any thing I try to run the fridge off the main battery as I have to get the second battery isolater fixed bleep its self the other day and we are going away on friday and wont have time to get it fixed so hopefully the main batt will hold out at nite time so I have enough to fire the old girl up in the mornings, just wacked a new battery in the other day (main starting one ) 760cca so should be enough. Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 454960

Reply By: Mike Harding - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 16:27

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 16:27
Surge protectors? Smurge protectors!

Unless you want to pay a lot of money for a surge protector I suspect you are wasting your time. Now I haven’t researched this extensively but here’s a bit of what I have done:

Site Link
Costs US$70 and will protect from up to 3000J

Site Link
Costs US$30 and will protect up to 375J

Sounds good eh?

3000 Joules is equivalent to 0.000 833 333 kilowatt hour – which is not a lot!

I suspect most of these domestic “surge protectors” are simply a MOV
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor
Site Link

MOVs have their place in mains use and it’s to clean very short (micro to millisecond) high voltage spikes, it is not uncommon to see spikes up to 2000V on the mains and if these can be quenched before they get near any electronics that is a “Good Thing” :)

It is most unlikely small generators would ever produce this sort of spike, they are far more likely to go over or under voltage by a “bit” for a short period of time and I, seriously, doubt that the MOV in your surge suppressor would even go into conduction during this phase and if your gen goes seriously over voltage it’ll burn the MOV up before you can say “smoke”, which, if you’re lucky may trip the breaker but probably won’t.

It’s your money but I don’t use one on my $98 GMC.

Comments, corrections, anyone?

Mike Harding

mike_harding@fastmail.fm
AnswerID: 196633

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 16:56

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 16:56
By the sounds of the price, it may be just a simple 4 outlet powerboard with overload (10A usually) protection. It will also have a Metal Oxide Varistor (MOV) in the powerboard for basic transient voltage protection. These are non-resetable in the fact that they are designed to be sacraficial.

The clamping voltage should as low as possible (usually <400v, good ones around 275v) for them to actually shunt the excess load. As such they may not "detect" a swell in voltage from the genset.

As you stated Mike, you pay for what you get, though in this case...it is better than nothing. May catch spikes generated, though it cannot be guaranteed to work in all cases.

Another thing to continually check with surge protection boards is that they have an indication of when the MOV is stuffed, usually a visual indication eg.a little red (?) LED......no light, no protection.

(wrote for OP, however thought i would tack onto your posting as it was relevant, and you beat me to it)

Andrew
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FollowupID: 454974

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 18:33

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 18:33
Hi there guys, thanks for the info, Mike thanks for that checked out the links but out of my depth all that stuff but was a good read on how it works. The board I just bought has these specs on the side of it if it means any thing to yourself or Andrew, Specifications: (Supply voltage 230-240V ac) (Current: 10amps max) Power:(2400W) Total Energy Absorption:(150 Joules) and yes it has a little red light on the corner to let you know when the surge protection is working, also says that the board will still work when light is not on BUT there is no surge protection. Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 455020

Follow Up By: Mike Harding - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 18:45

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 18:45
Hi Steve

Yeah, it gets a bit technical and I think the surge people rely on this to "baffle us with bull$hit". At 150J...? it's a MOV and will be of limited use with a gen but, hey!, it's better than a sock in the face with a wet fish :) Just don't believe it will really protect your kit against gen malfunction. _Always_ disconnect everything before starting the gen - stopping the gen - or unplugging _anything_ from the gen - the more expensive gens should be better in this regard - but I wouldn't trust _any_ small gen not to surge a bit when unloaded - expensive Hondas included.

Mike Harding
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FollowupID: 455023

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen M (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 19:08

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 19:08
Hi there Mike, thanks for that, never really thought of turning things off first before unplugging, bad for doing that even at home, but will definately be turning fridge etc off at the actual appliance first before unplugging or pluging in to the generator. Thanks for that good tip to remember. Should start doing at home as well so I get in the habit of doing the write thing. Regards Steve M
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FollowupID: 455032

Follow Up By: Member - George (WA) - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 21:38

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 21:38
I was under the impression, and not necisarily correct, that it also depend on the type of sine wave from the generator. I have been told that the cheap GMC generators will simply burn up the normal surge protector when they rev too fast for any length of time. Someone may have more reliable info on this
Cheers
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FollowupID: 455097

Reply By: Craigww2 - Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 16:32

Tuesday, Sep 26, 2006 at 16:32
I would be looking into something with RCD protection for camping as well. It is a handy thing to have. You never know it could save your life.
AnswerID: 196634

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Sep 27, 2006 at 06:03

Wednesday, Sep 27, 2006 at 06:03
If you are really concerned, run your sensitive devices such as the computer and fridge off a 12 volt supply using an inverter. This will protect your gear much better.

Then, if you must, use the gennie to maintain a charge in your battery(s) via a charger.
Bill


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AnswerID: 196738

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