Snatching from 50mm hitch
Submitted: Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 19:14
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Scubaroo
What are people's thoughts on snatching/winching using a bow shackle through the hole in the hitch where the towball normally goes? The hitch in question is similar to the one in the photo:
http://i19.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/a6/95/4f_1.JPG
I know a lot of people simply use the pin itself, but the towbar on my vehicle looks like it would chew a snatch strap up with some sharp edges etc. I'd rather use the existing hitch (minus the towball, I know not to snatch off one of those), or get a proper recovery hitch like an Outback Ideas bush hook in place of the tow hitch. The existing hitch looks damn solid welding - but can they be trusted?
Reply By: HJ60-2H - Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 19:26
Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 19:26
Snatching with a shackle like this in the hole for the ball is an everyday occurance. As long as all the metal bits are rated then the strap should be the weakest part of the set up so if it "fails and flies" it will be controlable. Safest way to be.
AnswerID:
200364
Follow Up By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 13:37
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 13:37
I reckon the less parts you have involved in a snatch recovery the better. As a recognised 4wd trainer I use and teach tongue out strap in and pin through the strap. If the edges of your receiver are sharp file them round and smooth 5 mins work. I have done hundreds of demo snatches using this method and still beieve it is the safest method. I have never seen a bent pin and couldn't imagine bending one unless crazy speeds were involved. You don't have to snatch someone out in one go a couple of sensible snatches usually does the trick. Buying storeing and carrying an extra tongue is more dangerous than using your pin. IMHO. Cheers Rob
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 14:29
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 14:29
Agreed that using the pin is OK and teh less parts the better.
If the angle of pull isnt straight then the strap moves on the hitch receiver if you use the pin in the hitch method hence using the shackle can be good idea as it keeps the strap away from the metal of the hitch that it may rub against.
I am also a recognised 4WD trainer and am involved in hundreds of snatch receoveries a year in competitions which are not demo ones. We use shackles as they are easier to fit especially when the stuck vehilce is buried in mud. Pretty hard to do the pin in the hitch when its under a meter or so of mud.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 15:14
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 15:14
So I take it you are prepared by already having the shackle fitted, fair enuff. Otherwise more difficult than in out pin. In those conditions you could also have the strap through the pin ready to go and folded in the back of the truck. I always try to snatch in as straight a line as possible pulling at a sharp angle is more likely to damage a recovery point \chassis or strap. Apart from comps I think a dedicated recovery tongue is a waste of money that you have to store and carry with you. IMHO. Cheers Rob
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 16:38
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 16:38
Yes the shackle is prefitted and waiting. There is a strap attatched to it and thrown in the back as you suggest. However these comp truck do some strange things (like on their side in a bog hole) and you often need to reset the recovery point to suit the recovery plan. If you cant get a straight pull then the shackle is a good idea. If you have a nice straight pull then the pin in the hitch is fine.
I have personally bent a Hilux front end doing a 45 degree snatch. The driver wanted it that way even though I offered a nice controlled whinch off a block. He was in a hurry (he thought) till he saw the front left chassis rail bend out!! At least he had a
well anchored recovery point.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 20:25
Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 20:25
No thanks...
as to the speed of a broken strap with a shackle on it.
www.whyalla4wd.org.au/Shackles.php
"Peak Speed of Shackle v = 364 km/h"
AnswerID:
200379
Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 08:37
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 08:37
If the strap breaks how does that allow the shackle to fly?
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:21
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:21
Ya just gotta luv it when Truckster gets caught out. hehehehe
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 14:43
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 14:43
I'll post up the photo of the Jeep tonight with the shackle still attached to the strap that went thru the back door, thru the
seat and the screen and is sitting comfortable 15ft infront of the vehicle.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 14:54
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 14:54
I have a video of one where the "recovery point" (= ARB high lift point) let go and the attatching shackle when through back & front windscreens. This was on a Toyo not a Jeep. Bet both drivers had similar feelings though!
In this case, like yours I suspect, it wasn't the shackle attatched to the hitch that went flying after the strap broke.
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Follow Up By: Scubaroo - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 15:41
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 15:41
Surely Truckster that would be when someone joined two straps with a shackle (as we all know, a big no-no). If a single strap with no joins broke, you'd have two frayed strap ends flying back towards each vehicle.
My main concern was whether the weld attaching the 90 degree tongue to the 50mm hitch insert is strong enough to use as a recovery point.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 17:50
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 17:50
I cant find the whole image with the ground infront, but heres the best I could find at short notice
Cant remember where I found this one.
I dont want any metal on my snatch strap if I dont have to... The pin way has worked 100's of times with
driver training, and also in the bush.. I'll go with that thanks
YMMV
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 18:16
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 18:16
But the snatch strap hasn't failed - something else has:)
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 at 23:06
Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 at 23:06
Very good Gary.. go to the top of the class... Grab an apple on your way past
the bench... Im impressed.
Thats the whole point of this section of the thread.. The strap is not the only thing to fail.
Well done..
A snatch strap with X Kg of steel attached, be it hook, or shackle etc @ 364kph.... and even when the strap reaches full length after the incident, Xkg of metal may still fling off the strap @ said KPH and head another 100mtrs to the 'safe zone' that people should be standing in away from the recovery...
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Follow Up By: Off-track - Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:31
Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 10:31
It was your original post that said broken strap that was incorrect...but we knew what you meant.
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Reply By: SA_Patrol - Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 20:40
Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 20:40
This method is ok with the DTU people
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Follow Up By: Scubaroo - Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 21:38
Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 21:38
DTU?
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 06:05
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 06:05
DTU=
Driver Training Unit.
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Reply By: Exploder - Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 21:55
Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 21:55
Yeah why not> maybe get a new Pin just to be sure, or even drill out another hole so you can fit 2 M12 or M16 Grade 12.9 bolt’s and with a 176,000psi tensile strength I don’t see Them letting go ever!!
AnswerID:
200400
Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 23:04
Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 23:04
yes pretty safe way to do it, the larger bow shackle pin wont necessarily fit (wouldnt in
mine) and I wouldnt want to use a small shackle.
AnswerID:
200409
Follow Up By: Scubaroo - Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 23:11
Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 at 23:11
Had a look-see this evening, the 4.7t shackle fits
mine. I'm more than convinced that a snatch strap would fail first - and I've only a hand winch. It looks like a bloody strong weld.
Will have a look at proper recovery hitches at the 4x4 show next weekend anyway.
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Reply By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 06:03
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 06:03
Scubaroo
What you have described is the way I have learned to do it through our clubs Driver Awareness Program. Like Bonz said, make sure the pin fits, and make sure you use a RATED shackle.
The only problem with using the pin, and it is a small chance thing, is that there is a possibility of the pin bending and then you will have to cut your strap to get it out of the hitch...... then later find a way of removing the pin. This has happened, although not frequently from what I gather.
Another option is to get a spare hitch, as shown in your photo, and attach a recovery hook to it. I have made one for my truck, I got the hitch from the wreckers for next to nothing and a hook from ARB for $16.... and I upgraded the nuts and bolts in the pack to the highest tensile I could get for a bit of added safety. Certainly has worked for me so far!
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Brian
AnswerID:
200422
Follow Up By: Kiwi Kia - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:21
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:21
Have seen the calculations of the strain on the pin and I doubt very much that you will ever bend it.
However there an advantage of doing as Brian sugests. If the retaining pin is dead in the middle you can turn the whole thing upside down if required. Hook faceing up or down depending on the direction of pull if not level.
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:43
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 11:43
I'd be cutting the $12 pin before I cut my $75 strap. (With the hacksaw I always carry.)
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 17:21
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 17:21
Kiwi....
Like I said, it's a small chance thing.....but it has happened!
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Follow Up By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 19:19
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 19:19
Has anyone ever seen a pin bent in a snatch recovery with their own eyes? If so under what circumstances and how much speed was involved? Cheers Rob.
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Follow Up By: HJ60-2H - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 19:40
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 19:40
Yes, Dont' know the speed but it was after many attempts to get a very stuck comp truck out. I suspect that it was more about the many attampts the moved the pin a little each time than speed of one attempt. The pin had to be hacksawed at both ends and then wacked really hard with a cold chisel and FBH tool to get it out
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Follow Up By: Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 at 05:52
Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 at 05:52
Was it a genuine 'pin' or was it any old slack fitting bolt being used as a pin?
By genuine I mean the correct diameter for the hole.
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Follow Up By: Member - Brian (Gold Coast) - Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 at 06:04
Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 at 06:04
The one I know of was genuine.
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Reply By: Col_and_Jan - Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 18:31
Monday, Oct 23, 2006 at 18:31
Regarding the pins - would the lockable type pins commonly available from auto shops suitable for this type of recovery. I havent heard of any reports of these pins breaking/bending when towing, but they arent rated either (as far as I could see).
Col
AnswerID:
200530
Reply By: Member - Drew T (Melbourne) - Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 12:21
Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 at 12:21
I personally dont have a problem with either method, but the reality for me is that the towbar receiver/pin method is only good for straps (winching strap or snatch strap). If you want to connect a winch cable (ie with hook) to the back of your car you still need a recovery eye or hook to connect it to (as the cable hook wont fit inside the towbar receiver)
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Ted (Cairns) - Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 18:46
Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 18:46
You can get the winch hook off and then use a shackle through the eye instead. You can take the shackle off and the eye fits inside the 50mm hitch and you just pass the pin though it.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: HJ60-2H - Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 20:04
Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 at 20:04
.....and then on anything but the straightest of pulls you have the winch cable impacting on the inside of the hitch receiver. Metal on metal in my case. Not ideal and may be worse if you are using a synthetic winch cable.
I like to protect my winch cable and keep it clear of as many rub/touch points as I can, especially metal ones. The only metal to metal point I am happy with is the eye (thimble) of the cable or hook (depends on which cable I am using) on a rated shackle.
AnswerID:
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