PM blasts NP

Submitted: Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:13
ThreadID: 40367 Views:2227 Replies:11 FollowUps:13
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Reply By: 3.0turbob - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:19

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:19
This has been a hot (pardon the pun) topic of discussion on talkback radio here in Sydney. They're saying the same thing: because of track closures they couldn't access the area to fight the fires in the Blue Mountains. Maybe now they'll see the need to keep these tracks open.
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Reply By: Footloose - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:32

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:32
Not far from my place there used to be a fire trail that all the youngies used. Parties, illicit whatever it was all happening. The locals sealed it off. End of problem ? Yep, until the firies couldn't get in there, net result was damage to some people's homes from bushfires...you guessed it...the ones who closed it off.
Tough choices...
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Follow Up By: Gramps (NSW) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 14:51

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 14:51
Karma :))))))))))))))))))))))
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Reply By: Willem - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:37

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:37
Maybe this will be the catalyst to some tracks opening again.

A timely wake-up call for NPWS
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Follow Up By: Member - Duncs - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 22:40

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 22:40
Don't hold your breath old friend.

I cal them the ministry of gates!!!

Duncs
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Reply By: Notso - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 10:20

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 10:20
They have been at this for years.

I reckon it's about time they started to look at where the money comes from to fund the Nat Parks and make them more accessible to the population not less.

If we don't allow people into these places, then why have them. All the wonders of the world mean nothing unless people are able to appreciate them. There is of course the odd clown who will abuse the right but for goodness sakes lets not punish the whole population because of a ratbag few??
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:11

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:11
And the parks have a go at the greens nad doo gooders too about closing it all up..

the ball rolling??
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 10:27

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 10:27
Pretty soon with all the fires the Greens will have to be renamed the Blacks
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Follow Up By: Mad Dog - Vic - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 10:58

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 10:58
no way, we don't want to give the All Blacks a bad name do we
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Reply By: Mikee5 (QLD) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 16:48

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 16:48
And what about these politically correct 'Containment Lines' the media keep mentioning - what about good old fashioned 'Fire Breaks'. two syllables vs four. is Fire break a dirty word in these green times?
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 17:00

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 17:00
What we have to do is make "Greenie" a dirty word with the public. Sounds like we're off to a promising start.

No point in having 20 metre fire breaks when you have 50 metre tall fires throwing embers miles inf front of the fire.

There needs to be a 400 m fire break 1km out from the town edge, circling all country towns in bushfire prone areas. This would make it easier to deal with the ember attacks without the radiant heat of the fire making things worse in town.

Won't be pretty, but should be effective...

.....Not forgetting opening of all locked areas (except critical catchment areas) and re-instatement of all tracks, in co-operation with the 4WD movement for maintenance/access.

The greenies have cost the insurance companies hundreds of millions of dollars, and have caused tonnes of CO2 to be released into the atmosphere. It's about time they were FORCED to be accountable for their political actions and lobbying.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 10:34

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 10:34
Mikee the terms are exclusive, firebreaks and containment lines. They amount to the same thing but they are differently arranged. A firebreak is a proactive means of containing a fire, maintained year round and (sometimes) burnt off pre-summer to enhance its effectiveness.

A containment line is a fire fighting technique used to actively combat a going fire and as such they are a reactive means to contain a fire. They can be anything from a 20m swathe thru the bush cut by a dozer (I have heard there are 100+ dozers in the High Country at the moment) all the way thru to a metre wide line scratched in the forest floor with a firemans tool (a sort of shovel/rake thingy).

A fire burns along the ground mainly, its on extreme days that the fire goes ballistic, burns to the top of the trees and then spots via embers and ash attack sometimes miles ahead of a fire.

In the Grampians last year a huge team of firies cut a 1 metre wide containment line, by hand, in the Southern section and contained a slow moving fire front, it just got to the bare dirt and lost interest, then they black it out and its snuffed.
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Follow Up By: Pajman Pete (SA) - Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 00:54

Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 00:54
Thanks for the clarification Binz, It has had me wondering.

Pete
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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 22:53

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 22:53
Garry,

While I appreciate the general sentiment of your comment you need to be a little careful.

A 400m fire break is a good idea but to believe that it will stop fire spread is a little optomisitic.

In 1984 I watched a relatively small bushfire jump across the Georges River from Alfords Point to Lugarno. The fire had not been burning for long nor had it come a long way. In fact it started at the top of the hill and ran about 200m down to the river before jumping well over 400m to the other side wher it destroyed a couple of houses.

Well prepared property much closer to the actual fire was saved, because it was well prepared and protected by well prepared people with a bit of common sense.

When they get going bushfires will spot miles ahead. One Christmas a few years ago I was puting out embers in my backyard at Blakehurst in Sydney which were coming from a fire at Warragamba.

The 400m fire break won't stop that. It will slow it down and allow firefighters a chance to control it.

The point of the thread is very pertinent though. You can't put the fire out if you can't get your truck in. You can't get a tanker down a disusesd severly eroded track. If you let 4wds in then most drivers will do some track maintenance.

Oh Choppers are a useful tool but they don't black out a fire.

The other problem is that if you can't get tankers in you can't do hazard reduction burns.

Gee jsut re-read that and it sounds a bit harsh. Not meant that way.

Duncs
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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 16:03

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 16:03
Yeah I agree that preparation is everything, but also that bit of extra time that a 400 m firebreak would give you through less exposure to radiant firefront heat would go a long way to saving property.

Choppers are great, until you get smoked out with the fleet grounded as occurred earlier in the week.
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Reply By: Phillipn - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 16:52

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 16:52
National parks are a national shame. What was wrong with the annual burn off that the cattle men did with most of these areas in the cooler months of the year so as the fires were not a problem? The fires just cleaned the excess rubbish up and DIDN`T burn the bloody lot. Plus the bush was put to use. It feed a lot of cattle.

Greenies should hang their heads in SHAME. Houses destroyed and a life lost.

An open season on greenies may be the answer to most of the problems of this country.

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Follow Up By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 11:54

Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 11:54
I can see a selective election ballot coming from me at the next Fed election.....greens last and Garret 2nd last.
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Reply By: Merylin - Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 07:01

Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 07:01
I like NP,s ,if some people had there own way like the PM favourite talk back host and the man on the land we just may loose a few
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Follow Up By: Phillipn - Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 22:31

Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 22:31
Their was a message in my last reply.

A bit of COMMON sense in the management of national parks would go a long way.

Yes you will loose a few --to smoke and ash.

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Follow Up By: Junior - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 02:16

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 02:16
you obviously don't understand the 'man on the land' very well at all- most are more 'green' than most so called 'greenies'- they have to be- modern farmers have learnt a lot from our/their past- they understand that to continue to make a living from their properties, that they have to look after what they've got... you really want to choose your words VERY carefully and get out from behind your keyboard before slamming the cockies
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Follow Up By: Phillipn - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 07:09

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 07:09
Junior

If you are refering to me, you are wrong.
I am on the land, I don`t think you understand what I am saying.
I have past experience with land that is now a national park.

This area is now a receipt for disaster, if some idiot with a box of matches gets loose.

Read the reply I submited .
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Reply By: Junior - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 08:33

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 08:33
nope- I agree with you- I was replying to Merylin
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Follow Up By: Phillipn - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 21:43

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2006 at 21:43
Junior

Thanks!
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Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 01:40

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 01:40
My parents farm backs on to what used to be a state forest that was created a National Park about 10 years ago. We used to ride our motorbikes there, and there was limited license tree felling under the old regime. The local BFB and other locals used to clear it regularly in the winter months. Did no great harm as there were Bellbirds and Lyrebirds and other wildlife living in the forest.

Since the NP took over, all the fire trails were blocked off, and no selective burning since then. Zero maintenance in the name of 'preservation'.

The whole park is now as tinderbox, is overgrown with detritus, and ALL the locals are living in fear of the 'big one'. When it happens it will probably kill most of the old growth in the forest and most of the fauna, and probably put all the neighbouring farms at risk.

Progress?!
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