2nd Battery Replacement - Advise Needed!

Submitted: Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:25
ThreadID: 40369 Views:3293 Replies:6 FollowUps:16
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Hi Guys,

I need some advise regarding replacing my 2nd battery. I bought the LC80 a couple of years ago 2nd hand already with a dual battery setup. At the time i didn't have much of a need for it so i neglected asking how the setup worked. About a year ago I replaced the cranking battery with a 720 CCA Exide unit (which is doing fine). The current/original 2nd battery is a 700 CCA, brand unknown but it is sealed (but now dead at 11V).

At this stage I don't have a lot to run from the 2nd battery, only camp lights, air compressor, laptop, phone/camera chargers, etc, but I'll be looking for a 40/60L fridge in a couple of months.

Most trips I do don't involve being self sufficient for more than a day or two and i'm happy to use alternator to top up battery as needed.

The current setup doesn't have any 'smart' gadgets that tell me the voltage state of each battery or warning system when they are low. I'd be interested in putting something in place here too. Not sure I'll remember to get the multimeter out after a few beers.

I've been doing my research and reckon the Fullriver 12 volt 80Ah AGM Technology HGL Series Battery would do the job. Any opinions? Does any of the wiring need changing for this type of battery or can it simply directly replace the existing battery.

Where would be the best place in Syd to buy from? Or is it common practice to buy online and have them shipped?

Thanks for any help,
Alex
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Reply By: Alan H (Narangba QLD) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:49

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:49
Alex

I have two batteries in my 80 series just connected with a solenoid. This has worked fine for many years. On the advice of an auto electrician I keep the two batteries the same size (capacity) and have had no problems with battery life. I replaced both at the same time. Current ones been there for three years now.

I run a fridge plus lights off the second batery.
AnswerID: 210456

Follow Up By: franga - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:55

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:55
Thats the info that i got from an auto sparky as well.
I have two batteries the same with redarc solenoid, 84 watts of solar panel, 60l Trailblazer with temp & volt indicators running all the time in the L/C 80 for the last 3 to 4 years. No probs at this stage.

Cheers with beers

Franga
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FollowupID: 470476

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 10:29

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 10:29
Alex,

Does the Dual Battery setup have a control unit (Isolator?)
This is the most important part of any dual battery system
Firstly, it allows the primary (starting) battery to be charged first, then swaps over to enable charging of the auxiliary battery.
Secondly, a good quality Isolator will keep the two batteries separate from each other.
In this way, if one battery becomes flat, it will not drain the other battery.

A cheap, but easy way of maintaining a watch of one or the other batteries is to use a volt meter mounted in the cab. Such a volt meter is available from Jaycar (Cat no. XC0116) and sells for just under $40. This has a cigarette plug already on it. In my setup, I have an additional ciggy socket mounted under the dash, which is connected to the auxiliary battery to power low current devices such as the laptop, camera charger, etc.
To check one or the other batteries I simply plug the voltmeter into either the original ciggy socket to monitor the primary battery, or the additional socket to monitor the auxiliary battery. Simple, but it works. I attach the voltmeter to the dash via Velcro.

The Fullriver battery you mention is a good choice for your stated needs, including the fridge. Just make sure the physical footprint (length and height) will allow the battery to fit into the existing cradle. This may or may not be a problem.
The batteries do not need to be the same type, brand, or capacity unless you are using a “dumb” isolating device.

Finally, a low voltage cut-out device will protect your battery from severe discharge.
The Waeco fridge has this built-in, but a separate Projecta brand unit can be bought from Kmart or Repco for around $30. This will isolate the fridge from the battery once the voltage has dropped to 11.6 (about 70% discharged).

Good luck with your choices.
Bill


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AnswerID: 210460

Follow Up By: disco1942 - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 10:42

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 10:42
Your two batteries should be of the same class - ie Ca-Ca, gelcel or AGM

PeterD
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:05

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:05
Hello Sandman, I have a voltmeter from jaycar( cat no. xco118 ) that is very similar to the xco116 and it is rubbish ! After checking it against a digital voltmeter many times I found it couldn't be trusted for accuracy. Have adjusted the "pot" at the back to get the voltage set, then checked it a day later and it was reading anything up to .5 of a volt out, which is no good if you want to use it for accurately measuring batt drain levels !!
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Follow Up By: Member - Alex K (NSW) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:16

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:16
There is an Isolator but I don't know all the details about it. I might get an auto sparkie to check it out.

Does anyone know where is the best place to buy in Syd? I keep finding places either in vic, qld or wa?
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:42

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:42
Would agree with Redback re the traxide isolator, if I was putting one in, that one would be probably no1 on my list.
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 12:20

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 12:20
Disco,

Don't agree with you mate re being the same class.

As I said if a quality Isolator is used that keeps the two batteries isolated from each other, it doesn't matter the type, or class.
Bill


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Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 12:13

Sunday, Dec 17, 2006 at 12:13
Woops, all said nicely :-)))

the two batteries DO have to be the same "class" or "type" when wired in parallel, as in a dual battery system.

Reason being; Gell batteries charge at vastly different rates to wet cell batteries.

For further proof look at the better quality battery chargers and ask the simple Question;
Why is there a switch fitted for EITHER gell batteries OR wetcell batteries ???

Answer;
Because they are different batteries AND charge at vastly different rates.

This is one reason batteries shet themselves early when wired in parallel.
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FollowupID: 470803

Reply By: Redback - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 10:50

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 10:50
Alex i run about the amount of gear as you with a fridge and have a Fullriver 60AH AGM sealed battery, works fine for me and have had no reason to change, i also run a Traxide Tronics dual battery controller to keep it all in check, at $110 i can't complain.

Baz.
AnswerID: 210461

Reply By: Footloose - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:06

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 11:06
Years ago my battery died on the way home from a solo Simpson crossing...about 1983 I think. My rule now is if the batteries are over 18 months old, I replace both of them before doing a major trip. That way I'm fairly sure that whatever other hassles I may have, batteries aren't one of them.
AnswerID: 210463

Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 10:38

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 10:38
footloose, would love to be in the battery replacement business near you L0L.
I had 2 x Delkor Deep Cycle batteries, I replaced them after almost 5 years because I was going away for the winter, actually I gave one to a guy who needed it more than me and the other I use as my Cranking battery, replacing my Overlander 700cca battery which was about 4yo anyway and tested lower than the Delkors.

So I don't have any Cranking batteries, only 3 x Deep Cycle batteries and no problems.
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FollowupID: 471371

Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 10:58

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 10:58
When I go away I am by myself, just me. The trips are often around 12000km and take in some reasonably remote areas. Chances are, without 12v power I'm stuffed. $300 to replace both batteries before setting off is cheap insurance in my book.
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FollowupID: 471372

Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 13:38

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 13:38
footloose, I'm not having a go at you personally here; but, I will agree with you that if you buy batteries at only $150 each I would not take that risk either, yes I believe you do the right thing by replacing them often.

However, if you bought better quality AGM batteries they would cost you about $240 each, I would expect them to last much longer than my DC's did and mine were only about $170 retail.
They recharge heaps faster and last far longer and are built stronger to last.

Can I ask what type and brand of batteries you generally use @ $150 each?
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FollowupID: 471413

Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 16:39

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 16:39
Certainly. My vehicle is my daily driver, with several looong trips a year. So it starts and stops a lot. Apart from HF radios and occasional lights and other camp accessories, the draw is minimal on either. Fridge comes out after a trip.
Becauase I don't have another vehicle or generator (well I do but I rarely take it), both batteries are exactly the same cranking batteries. I'm not fussed on the kind or brand because at that price at least they're new, and properly treated will last around the life of the warrenty. So using a more exe brand doesnt really have much to offer me. Oh yes, I rarely camp for more than 2 days at a time.
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FollowupID: 471447

Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 17:42

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 17:42
If you used delkor DC's you would get 4 years @ $42 per year each, not $100 as you are spending now.

If you used 1 x 100a/h AGM @ $240 you would get at least 5 years at $48 per year Max.

So over 5 years you would spend $240 on 1 x 100a/h AGM battery and $500 on various Cranking type batteries.
Agm's are superior in every possible way when used as an Aux battery for running a fridge & lights etc.

$260 would be far better in your pocket than the battery supplier!!
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FollowupID: 471458

Follow Up By: Footloose - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 18:53

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 18:53
Yes I agree. That's certainly the rational approach. But how many 4wd decisions are rational ? Tyres, fridges, brand of 4wd, summer desert trips etc ?
Like others, I have many things to do and organize when doing a trip. Many times I dont know I'm actually going until several weeks before, even if the planning started the year before.
So when I go to change the batteries, I'd have to do the run around. Who, what and where. The phone thing doesnt work, they say they have brand X but when you arrive on their doorstep, its oh sorry. I spent a day and 120Km travelling to find something last week. 7 companies assured me that they had it in stock. They didn't.
The other good thing about changing the batteries is that I have the charging system checked at the same time.
I agree with your points, but .....:)))))))))

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FollowupID: 471472

Reply By: Mainey (WA) - Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 23:50

Friday, Dec 15, 2006 at 23:50
Alex,
if you require a Deep Cycle Storage battery then you have not done your research well enuff L0L,
you stated.... "I've been doing my research and reckon the Fullriver 12 volt 80Ah AGM Technology HGL Series battery would do the job. Any opinions"

Not just an opinion but a real fact - the "HGL" is NOT a Deep Cycle Storage battery..... :-(
check out the Fullriver web site for more technical information.

You want a Fullriver Deep Cycle battery get a "Deep Cycle" battery!!!

Yes, they are sold and labelled as the "DC" battery range, common sence really.
AnswerID: 210591

Follow Up By: Member - Alex K (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 12:46

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 12:46
Cheers Mainey,
I don't necessarily require a deep cycle battery and I don't recall ever stating that I do. I'd be happy to be stood corrected however...

Thanks anyway for your input
Alex
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FollowupID: 470678

Follow Up By: Mainey (WA) - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 20:52

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 20:52
Alex, your post is titled "2nd battery replacement - advice needed"
and then you go on to state
"At this stage I don't have a lot to run from the 2nd battery, but I'll BE LOOKING FOR A 40/60L FRIDGE IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS. I've been doing my research and reckon the Fullriver 12 volt 80Ah AGM Technology HGL Series battery would do the job. ANY opinions? "

I have suggested a Deep Cycle battery only because you have said you are going to buy a fridge in a few months.
When you do your 'homework' you will find a Fullriver Deep Cycle AGM battery is superior to a Fullriver HGL series battery when used as a storage device to run a fridge and lights etc.

You can run a fridge on a Cranking battery, however you get superior performance using a Deep Cycle battery because they will run for a much longer period of time on the same charge time.
To check the 'correctness' of this information checkwith the Fullriver web page :-))
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FollowupID: 470732

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 19:00

Saturday, Dec 16, 2006 at 19:00
The battery you have chosen will fit straight in to the cradle and do the job easy , even the 90 Fullriver hgl will fit ,
AnswerID: 210678

Follow Up By: Member - Alex K (NSW) - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 07:53

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 07:53
I bought yesterday and it does fit straight in however the terminals are now at the front of the car and the last battery towards the rear of the car, now the cables don't fit. Since We leave town on Sat morning and i'm still suppose to be working it's not going very well...
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FollowupID: 471352

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